57139 réponses à ce sujet

[noobcannon]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Parabolee77 wrote...

Parabolee77 wrote...

I have been a long time lurker to this thread but have not posted often (or at all I don't recall), mainly because I read on my phone.

However several people have asked if someone could put together a comprehensive list of all the clues that have been brought to light so far.

I have taken it upon myself to undertake that task. My plan is for it to be an extremely thorough reference source for all elements of both the Indoctrination Theory and it's criticisms. Along with all the clues and related information from comments made by Bioware. It will source all it's information and include many images and links to related materials.

It probably will not be finished today but it is already well underway.

Just wanted to give people a heads up and something to look forward to. I should have the first version complete tomorrow and intend to keep it up to date and revised as need be.

Thanks and Hold the Line

I have almost compled the first draft of this. It's stands at about 4,000 words so far

Currently it is written on my personal blog, but I want people's opinions on where I should post it? Should I leave it there and link it here and maybe in a new thread?

Or should I reformat it into it's own thread on this board?

Also who would be willing to be to preview it for feedback and error checking?

Thanks!

i think you should start a new thread.... I can take a look at it, (put a link in your signature) and maybe byne can implement some of the more imprtant pieces to the first page of this thread since its already the main go-to for IT information. 

you should make a new thread here. and maybe put your name, parabolle77, in the title somewhere so it's easy to spot.

[Quahtli]

KellanC wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Totally unrelated:

For all Witcher 2 Fans, the Enhanced Edition can be preloaded now from the site/launcher.

10gb's.

I was at Target and they had the game for 19.99 plus they announced you can get the ED upgrade from GOG for free.  CD Projekt is a great company.

compared to EA, cd projekt are supergods

[Arian Dynas]

Dwailing wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Here's another 'speculative' tweet from Mike Gamble from NOW-11h:

"BSN is getting bigger! Stay Tuned in the next few days for more info..."

Yeah, it's getting bigger because everyone is posting just how unbelievably bad is the ending. Good job.

GAMBLE!  JUST TELL US WHAT THE ENDINGS ARE ALREADY!!!!!

I just realized.

It's like Christmas. No matter how much you whined, cried, ****ed, or whatever tantums you threw as a child, your parents STILL didn't ruin the suprise of what your Christmas presents were. (or at least mine didn't)

[Arian Dynas]

DreamTension wrote...

Tirian Thorn wrote...
This whole thing was deliberate.  They knew the ending would be polarizing, etc. 
So based on that you can look at it a couple ways:
1)       They planned to end the discussion by releasing “something” to clarify the ending
a.       DLC
b.      A press release


2)      They planned to let the discussion continue until people give up in frustration. 


3)      They were never going to clarify anything.  But they didn’t expect the discussion & backlash to get so heated and now they’re back-peddling. 
Which of those seems most likely given the track record of Bioware?   

4) Time was short, they (or one person) rushed out a 10 minute ending to a trilogy that involves +150 hours of gameplay because they already delayed once and they needed the game out asap.


Seriously, what happens more in the entertainment industry?  Rushed products or carefully and meticolously planned future content releases? 

3... and there's nothing really wrong with that. They were so focused on the "lets get lots of speculation" bit while forgetting the "lets give them a satisfying climax too" bit.Now fans are pointing this fact out for them.

[llbountyhunter]

Arian Dynas wrote...

DreamTension wrote...

Tirian Thorn wrote...
This whole thing was deliberate.  They knew the ending would be polarizing, etc. 
So based on that you can look at it a couple ways:
1)       They planned to end the discussion by releasing “something” to clarify the ending
a.       DLC
b.      A press release


2)      They planned to let the discussion continue until people give up in frustration. 


3)      They were never going to clarify anything.  But they didn’t expect the discussion & backlash to get so heated and now they’re back-peddling. 
Which of those seems most likely given the track record of Bioware?   

4) Time was short, they (or one person) rushed out a 10 minute ending to a trilogy that involves +150 hours of gameplay because they already delayed once and they needed the game out asap.


Seriously, what happens more in the entertainment industry?  Rushed products or carefully and meticolously planned future content releases? 

3... and there's nothing really wrong with that. They were so focused on the "lets get lots of speculation" bit while forgetting the "lets give them a satisfying climax too" bit.Now fans are pointing this fact out for them.

and lazily slipped in all the clues that led to the rise of IT in the first place? there not exactly what you would call "hidden"

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 13 avril 2012 - 08:31 .

[Falloutwarfare]

Anyone else been thinking that the way the reapers wage war seems extremely brutal for the purpose of "saving" organics

i meen they could easily use synthetic armies that they control (kind of like the geth) and mass seeker swarms to harvest colonies without mass bloodshed and huskification that ultimately kills those they seek to "save".

as for ships they could use viruses similar to the one that disables the normandy in ME2 when the crew gets collector-napped

still mabee the husk thing is just to make us hate them and im thinking about things too much 

still what do you guys think?

[MaximizedAction]

Today I came to an interesting conclusion - as the IT conspirator I am:

Some fellow BSNers interpreted the central plot in terms of real-world events as WWII and the construction of the atomic bomb. In the game it is represented as the Reaper invasion and the Crucible.
At the time of their resp. construction no one really knew what the end result will really be. The atomic bomb might've ignited earth's atmosphere, the Crucible might've supernova-d the whole galaxy.

But if the desired impact (end of WWII/end of Reaper invasion) was to be truly meaningful then the nature of such endeavors is likely to be equally risky. This is because real impacts can only be accomplished if they come unexpected and unheard-of.

Assuming that Bioware did not go absolutely bats*it crazy on the verge of everlasting praises from fans and game-critics - and not simply cut the game after Anderson's death to the finale cinematics and credits-roll - and all this IS something that was planned all along:

They are currently going through the same risky endevour as described above. They decided to go with it. The finale result of this will very likely have a long lasting impact, for both, fans and Bioware itself.

I find it truly intriguing how this game's story seems to project itself on the real world. Shepards indoctrination <-> our (assumed) indoctrination, Crucible experiment <-> Bioware's experiment.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 13 avril 2012 - 08:46 .

[Quahtli]

Falloutwarfare wrote...

Anyone else been thinking that the way the reapers wage war seems extremely brutal for the purpose of "saving" organics

i meen they could easily use synthetic armies that they control (kind of like the geth) and mass seeker swarms to harvest colonies without mass bloodshed and huskification that ultimately kills those they seek to "save".

as for ships they could use viruses similar to the one that disables the normandy in ME2 when the crew gets collector-napped

still mabee the husk thing is just to make us hate them and im thinking about things too much 

still what do you guys think?

one of the things I've never come to understand is why there were no collectors at all in mass effect 3. surely, like you said, they could be used for more harvesting. it seems to be implied that the reapers have given up on harvesting after losing the collector base and instead are intent only on destruction, that harvesting was only there for increasing their armies.

from a technical standpoint it is logical, adding another enemy type takes more time and any EA owned company has none.
too bad though, adding Collectors and perhaps Mercenary Groups (blue suns, eclipse, blood pack) to multiplayer's enemy possiblities would make it a lot more diverse.

[zergi]

what happen to this thread? im confused, am i indoctrinated?

edit, it fixed lol

Modifié par zergi, 13 avril 2012 - 08:47 .

[balance5050]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Today I came to an interesting conclusion - as the IT conspirator I am:

Some fellow BSNers interpreted the central plot in terms of real-world events as WWII and the construction of the atomic bomb. In the game it is represented as the Crucible.
At the time of their resp. construction no one really knew what the end result will really be. The atomic bomb might've ignited earth's atmosphere, the Crucible might've supernova-d the whole galaxy.

But if the desired impact (end of WWII/end of Reaper invasion) was to be truly meaningful then the nature of such endeavors is likely to be equally risky. This is because real impacts can only be accomplished if they come unexpected and unheard-of.

Assuming that Bioware did not go absolutely bats*it crazy on the verge of everlasting praises from fans and game-critics - and not simply cut the game after Anderson's death to the finale cinematics and credits-roll - and all this IS something that was planned all along:

They are currently going through the same risky endevour as described above. They decided to go with it. The finale result of this will very likely have a long lasting impact, for both, fans and Bioware itself.

I find it truly intriguing how this game's story seems to project itself on the real world. Shepards indoctrination <-> our (assumed) indoctrination, Crucible experiment <-> Bioware's experiment.

Good points, Summer can't come soon enough.

[schneeland]

Falloutwarfare wrote...

Anyone else been thinking that the way the reapers wage war seems extremely brutal for the purpose of "saving" organics

i meen they could easily use synthetic armies that they control (kind of like the geth) and mass seeker swarms to harvest colonies without mass bloodshed and huskification that ultimately kills those they seek to "save".

as for ships they could use viruses similar to the one that disables the normandy in ME2 when the crew gets collector-napped

still mabee the husk thing is just to make us hate them and im thinking about things too much 

still what do you guys think?

Well, it looks like the whole reaping business is a dirty job (but someone has to do it)  - they probably would be able to harvest more humans with more subtle tactics, but maybe they're fine with what they get.

And then, if we trust the hologram kid - don't know why we would, but let's assume that for a moment - then you are only saved when you still lick your eyes (or do related stuff); looks humans are stupid, but not underdeveloped enough

[Spartas Husky]

balance5050 wrote...


Good points, Summer can't come soon enough.

I'm in florida... summer came in 2 months ago lol

[kilgorek]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DarthSyphilis59 wrote...

You might just be my favorite mod yet. If you happen to catch someone's
ear over there, let them know that using the IT, or parts of it for the
extended edition would be welcomed.

I really was going to, until you called me a mod!  I'm technically not a mod haha.

For what it's worth, most people on the DA team that I've discussed the ME3 ending to are aware of the Indoctrination Theory.  I think it's safe to say the entire ME team knows about it.  Whether or not they do anything based on it is entirely up to them, and for us to find out when it's released haha.

That's interesting.

[blooregard]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Here's another 'speculative' tweet from Mike Gamble from NOW-11h:

"BSN is getting bigger! Stay Tuned in the next few days for more info..."

Yeah, it's getting bigger because everyone is posting just how unbelievably bad is the ending. Good job.

GAMBLE!  JUST TELL US WHAT THE ENDINGS ARE ALREADY!!!!!

I just realized.

It's like Christmas. No matter how much you whined, cried, ****ed, or whatever tantums you threw as a child, your parents STILL didn't ruin the suprise of what your Christmas presents were. (or at least mine didn't)

We weren't given a sock full of cat turds and told "merry Christmas" before hand this is nowhere near as awesome as Christmas.

[Falloutwarfare]

@Quahtli The one enemy type i thought we would see would be a tech based salarian husk thing that supports with organicy turrets (though the rachni kind of do that already) and i think the salarians feel left out of the huskification party the reapers are throwing with marauder shields as the DJ and harby serving shots!!

[schneeland]

Spartas Husky wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Good points, Summer can't come soon enough.

I'm in florida... summer came in 2 months ago lol

Could you share a bit of that? ;-) Taking a nap in the sun this weekend would be quite nice.

[Falloutwarfare]

@schneeland

       
"then you are only saved when you still lick your eyes"

is that a awesome reference to the salarians?

[Spartas Husky]

schneeland wrote...

Falloutwarfare wrote...

Anyone else been thinking that the way the reapers wage war seems extremely brutal for the purpose of "saving" organics

i meen they could easily use synthetic armies that they control (kind of like the geth) and mass seeker swarms to harvest colonies without mass bloodshed and huskification that ultimately kills those they seek to "save".

as for ships they could use viruses similar to the one that disables the normandy in ME2 when the crew gets collector-napped

still mabee the husk thing is just to make us hate them and im thinking about things too much 

still what do you guys think?

Well, it looks like the whole reaping business is a dirty job (but someone has to do it)  - they probably would be able to harvest more humans with more subtle tactics, but maybe they're fine with what they get.

And then, if we trust the hologram kid - don't know why we would, but let's assume that for a moment - then you are only saved when you still lick your eyes (or do related stuff); looks humans are stupid, but not underdeveloped enough

A- They only need us as paste. We've realized they dont need us alive. If a hostage is dead is because they fought until they were dead. Meaning is easier to catch em alive as contradictory that would be. More trouble some.

B- Seeker swarms are only effective if each colony is isolated. Massive seeker swarms in huge planets are subject to counter attacks within normal planets. EMP to name a few. ANd if not most soldiers have hard sealed suits.

C- the virus that disabled the normandy came from within. it wasn't a virus that they've acquired from external means. The IFF had it. And the IFF just has complex encryption codes for more accurate travel. Once those are cracked the targeting solutions can be just passed on to everyone without the virus inside the hardware.

D- The hole story already pointed many times why they need us alive. Like they did in Thessia. Isolating systems to make them scare and make the populations submissive into going to the reapers willingly.

An entire population of biotics or simply desperate people fighting the last man woman and child is hundreds of times more trouble some and time consuming than forcing the population out of fear to surrender.

Another example of this was the Turian Krogan counter attack. hundreds of surrender civilians are easy to process. The resistance however after linking up with krogan special forces smuggled in Nuclear Devices into those camps and detonated them. Not only did the reapers loose ships territory and hardware. but all those people are vaporized.


All they need is our bodies. Dead Or alive.

If they come in force, people will retaliate. If they isolate and attack each planet individually. Their sheer numbers for every planet hence " our numbers will darken the sky of every world" was an forshadowing of their tactics relating to isolation and overwhelming force.

Liara stated this as well. The protheans were several hundred levels above the current galactic species. yet they died off in 300 years.

The current galactic spread is not even an ant in comparison to the prothean empire.
It s going to take the reapers 100 years if they had won. To harvest us. but it only took them 3 times more for the protheans?

Difference is the protheans were isolated. We were ready.... welll some of us

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 13 avril 2012 - 08:56 .

[schneeland]

@Fallout:

I cannot tell if it's awesome, but yes, it is a reference to Salarians

[Beastpwnguy7]

I'm not sure if this has already been discussed or not but I didn't see it in the OP so I'll put it here

I found that even if you have a high ems and pick the destroy option at the end, if you let the illusive man kill Anderson, you do net get that Shepard takes a breath scene. For me this, on top of bleeding from the same spot you shot Anderson, supports even further that Anderson is a part of Shepard somehow, but I dunno just thought this was interesting haha

[Falloutwarfare]

@schneeland

when you've heard Javik saying they used to eat flies in that great way of his, salarian referances are always awesome (well for me they are =D )

@spartas husky hmmm you make a fair point

Modifié par Falloutwarfare, 13 avril 2012 - 09:04 .

[Spartas Husky]

Falloutwarfare wrote...

@schneeland

when you've heard Javik saying they used to eat flies in that great way of his, salarian referances are always awesome (well for me they are =D )

...... salarians?????/....... they use to eat flies...

awesome

[Parabolee77]

Parabolee77 wrote...

Parabolee77 wrote...

I have been a long time lurker to this thread but have not posted often (or at all I don't recall), mainly because I read on my phone.

However several people have asked if someone could put together a comprehensive list of all the clues that have been brought to light so far.

I have taken it upon myself to undertake that task. My plan is for it to be an extremely thorough reference source for all elements of both the Indoctrination Theory and it's criticisms. Along with all the clues and related information from comments made by Bioware. It will source all it's information and include many images and links to related materials.

It probably will not be finished today but it is already well underway.

Just wanted to give people a heads up and something to look forward to. I should have the first version complete tomorrow and intend to keep it up to date and revised as need be.

Thanks and Hold the Line

I have almost compled the first draft of this. It's stands at about 4,000 words so far

Currently it is written on my personal blog, but I want people's opinions on where I should post it? Should I leave it there and link it here and maybe in a new thread?

Or should I reformat it into it's own thread on this board?

Also who would be willing to preview it for feedback and error checking?

Thanks!

 HOLY CRAP! I just ran my word count again and the document is 5777 words long so far! It's about 80% done as a first draft!

Modifié par Parabolee77, 13 avril 2012 - 09:07 .

[schneeland]

Spartas Husky wrote...

[...]

A- They only need us as paste. We've realized they dont need us alive. If a hostage is dead is because they fought until they were dead. Meaning is easier to catch em alive as contradictory that would be. More trouble some.

B- Seeker swarms are only effective if each colony is isolated. Massive seeker swarms in huge planets are subject to counter attacks within normal planets. EMP to name a few. ANd if not most soldiers have hard sealed suits.

C- the virus that disabled the normandy came from within. it wasn't a virus that they've acquired from external means. The IFF had it. And the IFF just has complex encryption codes for more accurate travel. Once those are cracked the targeting solutions can be just passed on to everyone without the virus inside the hardware.

D- The hole story already pointed many times why they need us alive. Like they did in Thessia. Isolating systems to make them scare and make the populations submissive into going to the reapers willingly.

An entire population of biotics or simply desperate people fighting the last man woman and child is hundreds of times more trouble some and time consuming than forcing the population out of fear to surrender.

Another example of this was the Turian Krogan counter attack. hundreds of surrender civilians are easy to process. The resistance however after linking up with krogan special forces smuggled in Nuclear Devices into those camps and detonated them. Not only did the reapers loose ships territory and hardware. but all those people are vaporized.


All they need is our bodies. Dead Or alive.

If they come in force, people will retaliate. If they isolate and attack each planet individually. Their sheer numbers for every planet hence " our numbers will darken the sky of every world" was an forshadowing of their tactics relating to isolation and overwhelming force.

Liara stated this as well. The protheans were several hundred levels above the current galactic species. yet they died off in 300 years.

The current galactic spread is not even an ant in comparison to the prothean empire.
It s going to take the reapers 100 years if they had won. To harvest us. but it only took them 3 times more for the protheans?

Difference is the protheans were isolated. We were ready.... welll some of us

I'm not arguing with most of your points - however, I'd still say, the reapers could have gone more of their previous route, probably relying more on indoctrination to weaken our defenses.

Also: are we really sure dead humans help? In ME2 it seemed more like liquefaction was used only on living humans. And I'm inclined not to trust the things we see post Harbinger-beam too much.

[Arian Dynas]

blooregard wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Here's another 'speculative' tweet from Mike Gamble from NOW-11h:

"BSN is getting bigger! Stay Tuned in the next few days for more info..."

Yeah, it's getting bigger because everyone is posting just how unbelievably bad is the ending. Good job.

GAMBLE!  JUST TELL US WHAT THE ENDINGS ARE ALREADY!!!!!

I just realized.

It's like Christmas. No matter how much you whined, cried, ****ed, or whatever tantums you threw as a child, your parents STILL didn't ruin the suprise of what your Christmas presents were. (or at least mine didn't)

We weren't given a sock full of cat turds and told "merry Christmas" before hand this is nowhere near as awesome as Christmas.

Oh boo ****ing hoo. People say gamers are entitled ****s, it's **** like THIS that leads them to say that.

You got an EXCELLENT AAA title game that was near GODLY for 99% of it. And THEN they give you A FREE FIX that YOU asked for and are getting ONCE AGAIN FOR FREE, ON THE COMPANY'S DOLLAR, because they happen to GIVE A ****.

Stupid, whiny hyperboles like that are just so. UGH!

EDIT: Apologies, whining like this just sets me off, RIGHT away.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 13 avril 2012 - 09:23 .