57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Stegoceras wrote...

Ah yes, sorry about that, english is not my native language and do ocassionally use wrong words, I ment no offense here and I excuse for the poor wording.

Ahh, no problem. You do very well for a non-native speaker.

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Didn't say I was right, key word: Believe.

But my business training otherwise leads me to believe that. Although they did ruffle the old saying 'bad publicity is better than no publicity" - hell they are even marketing it. I think most of their sales were ME2 generated (hype) and then appealing to a multiplayer/action oriented audience further broadened their target market.

But now the issue is retaining old customers - which is always cheaper - than new ones. Furthermore, with two injured franchises there is too much risk for future sales from this genre.

Either BioWare will release a brand-new series and game (non-rpg), or continue this one but a long-while down the road.

At least this is my take. I honestly hope Indoc is true though, but I doubt it. There are many coutners to it, as well - which I'm sure you have seen already.

Maybe not, but the "real problem" was the "condescending nonsense" with "usage of quotes to imply insults".
If you think they put much effort into appealing to the MP audience, you clearly haven't played Galaxy At War much. Regardless this isn't a discussion about business sense. It's a discussion about IT.

paxxton wrote...

There is another soldier on the second floor that wanders around and salutes to Shepard. It's like security in a supermarket - nothing out of ordinary.

Th--that was sarcasm right? God I hope that was sarcasm.

DangerousPuddy wrote...

- Destroy ending is renegade because you kill the Geth and Synthetics to save yourself (apparently) - not as a Harbinger trick
- Control ending is paragon because you sacrifice yourself so everyone lives (lol, doesn't work after the relay explosions)
- "Indoctrinated Presence Detected" for Kai Leng but not you (if of course this is "part of the indoctrination" then I cannot argue with this logic, it is belief - you cannot argue belief)
- TIM, Kai Leng exposed to a Reaper artifact and are controlled ALA Saren - why even give Shepard the choice to break their hold if he is indeed indoctrinated
- Dream sequences a result of stress and guilt of not being able to save everyone

1 & 2 - Perhaps. The placement of the choices isn't one of IT's strong points either way.
3 - ... OMFG.



If I a nickel for everytime we've had to explain this, I could afford to buy Bioware from EA and put a custom script in this thread that makes it so you have to type out "Yes, I understand that it was established on multiple occasions that the Protheans were defeated from the inside by indoctrinated agents. I fully realize that this means their scanning techniques probably weren't perfect." before you're allowed to post in the thread. And then my life would be complete.
4 - Remember back to Saren's studies of indoctrination on Virmire. The more control the Reapers exert on a subject, the less capable the subject becomes. The entire reason the Reapers want Shepard is because of how damn good he is, which they realized after he killed Sovereign. If they go all ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL on him, then they lose the thing they're after in the first place.
5 - Bioware actually knows PTSD has more symptoms than "bad dreams". One of the chief symptoms is aversion to the type of situation or surroundings that lead to the traumatic experience. That's why Kelly Chambers refuses to go back to the Normandy, and why the asari commando in counseling doesn't want to be anywhere near humans or have to bathe. So if Shepard has PTSD as IT opponents usually claim, riddle me this: when has Shepard ever shied away from the Reapers that scarred him so?

delldo wrote...

Also, I find it odd that only specific turians follow your movements after you bump into them, but no other species standing or walking around does that...

Maybe everytime they see a human they can't help but wonder "how the hell do those people think we're related to birds?!" I know I do.

[Falloutwarfare]

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

DangerousPuddy:

No we haven't actually seen all those counters unless you are referring the usual "bioware were lazy" which seems to be the only counter the anti IT people in this thread seem capable of even when we challenge them to mention all those counters.

Will you break the circle and bring up these counters so they can be discussed in here?

Anyway gotta go, got a plane to catch, someone else has to reply to you.

Have a good flight.

I have not delved myself too much into IT, but I can give you some counters to IT I think are viable based on concjecture and interpretation similar to IT overall:

- Destroy ending is renegade because you kill the Geth and Synthetics to save yourself (apparently) - not as a Harbinger trick
- Control ending is paragon because you sacrifice yourself so everyone lives (lol, doesn't work after the relay explosions)
- "Indoctrinated Presence Detected" for Kai Leng but not you (if of course this is "part of the indoctrination" then I cannot argue with this logic, it is belief - you cannot argue belief)
- TIM, Kai Leng exposed to a Reaper artifact and are controlled ALA Saren - why even give Shepard the choice to break their hold if he is indeed indoctrinated
- Dream sequences a result of stress and guilt of not being able to save everyone

Out of Game reasons:
- Fan Backlash
- Cost structure
- Rushed product in other areas (Journal, cinematics, bugs) can lead one to believe that this scale of implementation was not possible on the shortest dev-cycle of all three games

ok ill have a go at this one

so as for the destroy/renegade ending yes we are told edi/geth/synthetics will die but it is strongly implied by star brat that shepard being partly synthetic will also perish so cant realy be selfish and evil as we belive be will die, also the main goal of the shepard in is to destroy the reapers (even hacket said it should end this way who is good and TIM wants control who is a evil jackass) and has always claimed that the reapers cant be controlled but other people have put this argument much better than me so i would try find them if you can

for control the star child states that you are only delaying the extermination of the cycle or something similar (havent played the ending in a week or 2 so cant be certain) so the reapers will return so you have saved everyone in the short run yet everyone will still die when they return so not realy paragon in the long run where as destroying reapers meens the cycles end full stop and with IT destroy breaks indoc where as control u get mostly indoctronated or fully.
(The part about IT may be relevent but you can decide)

For KL getting detected by the VI on thessia and shepard not well they arn't full proof when it comes to detecting indoc but KL has a lot of reaper tech implants from cerberus (correct me if im wrong) so would be much easier to detect than non reaper tech shepard.

Ok why give shepard the chance to break free if it i indoc? Well as he has wanted to destroy the reapers since the beginning it would be weird if the crucible didnt have that option when thats its specific purpous and as the destroy option basicly rejects the other choices which TIM and Saren would have chosen (both heavely influenced by reapers and one completely controlled by one) it symbolises your mind breaking free and destoying the reaper hold on you well thats how I see it and others see it similarly or the same way.

ok finaly dream sequences....... so in the sequence we see strange shadows and the rachni queen in me1 says smething about seing them and it is heavely implied that the rachni where controlled and indoced by the reapers into starting the rachni war (can't find the quote )  and we also hear many voiced not only of those that die but some that could be described as strange or alien as described in the codex and yes guilt and the loss of the people shepard could not save could be manipulated and help the reapers weaken shepards mind to their indoc

well the balls now in your court

[Falloutwarfare]

@rifneno dam it you ninja badger beat me to the punch ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

Modifié par Falloutwarfare, 15 avril 2012 - 03:35 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

"Rushed product" seems to the phrase of choice these days to describe anything we don't like...

[Golferguy758]

pirate1802 wrote...

"Rushed product" seems to the phrase of choice these days to describe anything we don't like...

Or lazy writing.

[DirtyPhoenix]

I'm playing the game again, and I noticed Anderson has a full skill tree. Did Kenson have such a tree too? Why give Anderson a skill tree? Maybe he could be of importance in the EC DLC? Or he was meant to be, but taken out because of time/budget constraints?

[delldo]

pirate1802 wrote...

I'm playing the game again, and I noticed Anderson has a full skill tree. Did Kenson have such a tree too? Why give Anderson a skill tree? Maybe he could be of importance in the EC DLC? Or he was meant to be, but taken out because of time/budget constraints?

I noticed that too.  I bet he was or is still a planned squad mate for filler DLC in the future...  He may have been a usable squad mate at one time or another in the retake earth mission and was cut for some reason; I think it would have been bad ass to use him as a squad mate on earth.

[LeRavelle]

delldo wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

I'm playing the game again, and I noticed Anderson has a full skill tree. Did Kenson have such a tree too? Why give Anderson a skill tree? Maybe he could be of importance in the EC DLC? Or he was meant to be, but taken out because of time/budget constraints?

I noticed that too.  I bet he was or is still a planned squad mate for filler DLC in the future...  He may have been a usable squad mate at one time or another in the retake earth mission and was cut for some reason; I think it would have been bad ass to use him as a squad mate on earth.

Jenkins in ME1 also had a skill tree for the 2 minutes of game-time he had, though.

[Rifneno]

LeRavelle wrote...

Jenkins in ME1 also had a skill tree for the 2 minutes of game-time he had, though.

You know what's really weird though?  Jenkins could equip any armor.  I don't mean light/medium/heavy, I mean that freak could equip krogan armor and  such.

[D.Sharrah]

D.Sharrah wrote...

So I was reviewing some of the videos on IT today and a thought crossed my mind...it just so happened to be from another series but the question and answer given are just too perfect for it not to be mentioned. I know that some fo the argument has been over when/if Shepard is hallucinating and the consequences that arise if tru (false ending to a game, etc.). But what if just for a second we believe both that IT is true and that you can take what you see in the game at face value. Let me get back to that.

The scene that I first mention is from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. Towards the end of the book we (the readers) are presented with a surreal conversation that takes place between Harry and Dumbeldore...at the very end of the conversation (as Harry is about to leave this dream like state), Harry asks Dumbeldore two very important things. First, he asks if everything that has just happended real? And second he asks if it has been happening in his head. Dumbeldore responds by saying of course it is happening it his head, but why should that mean that it is not real?

So I guess what I am getting at, is simply is it impossible/implausible to believe that Shepard was facing a final attempt at indoctrination but everything that we saw was "real"? For example is it possible that Shepard's body never leaves the ground on London, but somehow his consciousness (sp?) does? What if what we see is Shepard's mind either trying to make sense of antoher virtual interaction or an attempt to force this virtual interaction through indoctrination? Is it possible that the Shepard's mind was able to connect with the Citadel (i.e. the catalyst) and therefore the Crucible in a way that still allows for the actions during the ending sequence to carry real world weight?

No thoughts on this?

[paxxton]

Anderson isn't a playable character. How can he have a skill tree? I think only Shepard and squadmates have it.

[balance5050]

paxxton wrote...

Anderson isn't a playable character. How can he have a skill tree? I think only Shepard and squadmates have it.

Beginning of the game dude.

[paxxton]

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Anderson isn't a playable character. How can he have a skill tree? I think only Shepard and squadmates have it.

Beginning of the game dude.

Ok, by playable I mean you could move the character. I haven't checked it but the squadmate action keys aren't working with Anderson. Anyway, does he have a modifiable skill tree?

Modifié par paxxton, 15 avril 2012 - 04:35 .

[Voodzik]

@D.Sharrah: I said something similar a few pages back. He could be in the reaper equivalent of the Geth Consensus. That way everything she did could conceivably have real EFFECTS.

Also, a thought I had. Some people have suggested that Shepherd is supposed to form the core of the "human reaper." If that's true, and of course we don't know if it is, maybe Javik was supposed to be the core of the Prothean Reaoer, and not having him is why they didn't make one?

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Anderson isn't a playable character. How can he have a skill tree? I think only Shepard and squadmates have it.

Beginning of the game dude.

Ok, by playable I mean you could move the character. I haven't checked it but the squadmate action keys aren't working with Anderson. Anyway, does he have a modifiable skill tree?

There is a point where you can order him around.  I know that at the latest you can command him in that final scene in the prologue where you have to hold off the Cannibals until the Normandy arrives.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Would have been awesome to have him as squadmate. Can't believe Bioware cut out so many great things (if that's the case)..

[Dwailing]

pirate1802 wrote...

Would have been awesome to have him as squadmate. Can't believe Bioware cut out so many great things (if that's the case)..

If the extended cut DLC includes extra gameplay, maybe he will be a squad mate.  I could see a sequence where Shepard decides to make one last run at the conduit with only Anderson to accompany him after he wakes up.

[paxxton]

pirate1802 wrote...

Would have been awesome to have him as squadmate. Can't believe Bioware cut out so many great things (if that's the case)..

There's always a DLC opportunity. I'm not surprised BioWare didn't include everything in the core game.

[D.Sharrah]

Voodzik wrote...

@D.Sharrah: I said something similar a few pages back. He could be in the reaper equivalent of the Geth Consensus. That way everything she did could conceivably have real EFFECTS.

Also, a thought I had. Some people have suggested that Shepherd is supposed to form the core of the "human reaper." If that's true, and of course we don't know if it is, maybe Javik was supposed to be the core of the Prothean Reaoer, and not having him is why they didn't make one?

That's what I was wondering...I think the most interesting part of this possibility is that it could provide a way that what we see is the ending and IT is right.  And besides, that scene from HP 7 is one of my favorite...

[Dwailing]

pirate1802 wrote...

I'm playing the game again, and I noticed Anderson has a full skill tree. Did Kenson have such a tree too? Why give Anderson a skill tree? Maybe he could be of importance in the EC DLC? Or he was meant to be, but taken out because of time/budget constraints?

Kenson didn't have a full tree and neither did Wilson.  However, Liara had a full tree in LotSB.

[Voodzik]

Dwailing wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

I'm playing the game again, and I noticed Anderson has a full skill tree. Did Kenson have such a tree too? Why give Anderson a skill tree? Maybe he could be of importance in the EC DLC? Or he was meant to be, but taken out because of time/budget constraints?

Kenson didn't have a full tree and neither did Wilson.  However, Liara had a full tree in LotSB.

She was also a full squad mate for an entire DLC pack long enough to be a small, stand alone game.

[DirtyPhoenix]

paxxton wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Would have been awesome to have him as squadmate. Can't believe Bioware cut out so many great things (if that's the case)..

There's always a DLC opportunity. I'm not surprised BioWare didn't include everything in the core game.

Does that mean Anderson have to survive, or would they have Shepard come down to earth for one random mission before the final showdown? i hope not..

[malakim2099]

It's all a dream, and you wake up...

... next to your LI at the end of Mass Effect 1, as ME2 and 3 were just a dream.

[Dwailing]

Voodzik wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

I'm playing the game again, and I noticed Anderson has a full skill tree. Did Kenson have such a tree too? Why give Anderson a skill tree? Maybe he could be of importance in the EC DLC? Or he was meant to be, but taken out because of time/budget constraints?

Kenson didn't have a full tree and neither did Wilson.  However, Liara had a full tree in LotSB.

She was also a full squad mate for an entire DLC pack long enough to be a small, stand alone game.

Exactly!  It would seem to suggest that there will be more screen time for Anderson further down the line.  Although, in the interest of full disclosure, Anderson's upgrade list, with the exception of his passive character power, is an exact duplicate of James Vega's.

[Dwailing]

malakim2099 wrote...

It's all a dream, and you wake up...

... next to your LI at the end of Mass Effect 1, as ME2 and 3 were just a dream.

Hey, we aren't THAT crazy. <_<