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[EpyonX3]

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Domanese wrote...

Speculation for all!

But seriously Im going to quote a movie quote here that might be relevant for this thread.

"It's a huge mistake to theorize before one has data. Inevitably one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."

There is a question I honestly had to ask myself once I heard said. The question being,

"Are we twisting the facts in game to suit the theory or is it the other way around?"

I also think the people that are against IT should also ask that as well. Might get around to reevaluate what we know in game. Personally I just look at in game facts rather then everything else. I ignore the twitters, the comments and such, because they are double talking and avoiding the questions they are unwilling to answer. (Probably because we are so rabid.)

Food for thought.

I agree. People are overthinking this and are comingup with evidence that isn't there. The whole Anderson thing bugs me the most. There is nothing in that scene to indicate that it's all going on in his head and what the characters represent in his mind.

Oh REALLY?<_<

So... the trees and bushes that suddenly grew within the 5 minutes after Harbinger left aren't a sign? The blurred horizon, usually indicative of dreams and seen nowhere else in the game EXCEPT DREAM SEQUENCES, is not a sign? Then I suppose neither is Anderson somehow learning to teleport, Hackett learning you arent dead within 5 minutes and speaking to you telepathically, TIM's brand spanking new manipulative powers, or why your gun suddely became the same Carnifex Mordin gave you, or why it is that it never requires reloading, unlike the beginning of the game where even though you had unlimited ammo for certain segments, you still had to reload, doesn't happen to be a sign either.

Perhaps seeing piles of dramitically, shifted, and perhaps mutated would be a better word, piles of bodies, all of the same two people, wearing *Gasp* Kaiden and Ashley's armor, all with JENKINS' FACE, doll-like forms and bearing a resemblance to the piles of bodies in the Collector ship isn't either. Nor is the Illusive' man's complte lack of interest in the console, or his complete 180 flip on his motivations, going from "I don't need you to agree with me" to "I must make you understand and side with me" isn't either. How about that platform that SUDDENLY APPEARS AFTER THE WHOLE SCENE? THAT A MISTAKE TOO?

How about that wound that Shepard inflicts on Anderson, instead having it appear on his own body instead of the admiral's, must just be a graphical glitch, huh? NOT AT ALL A SIGN OF SOMETHING, IS IT? MUST BE UNIMPORTANT.

I'm not going to get into the Theory all in one posts but I think we should all move past the trees and shrubs thing.

They are there before you get hit by the beam.



Additionally, the trees and shrubs in your dream look nothing like the trees on the beam scene. In your dreams they're much thicker and taller and the foliage is much more detailed.

[Eli Parker]

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...



Start at 0:57 so you understand why I believe that it's not.

I've seen this video and it's rather poorly explained.

Shepard gets the bullet wound because he is the one inflicting the damage on himself. If TIM isn't real.. then he wouldn't be able to do harm to shepard.. hence.. shooting anderson in the back doesn't have the same effect.
TIM is also "false" therefore he doens't represent sheps true intentions. It makes it more likely that it would happen with anderson since he represents what we've been fighting for since me1.

Again, where in the scene does are these rules explained?

Also, he's holding the same spot before he shoots anderson and his arms are already covered in blood. Recently people have been pointing out that Shepard began bleeding out much faster after Anderson dies, but ho does he manage to get all of that blood on both of his hans AND arms?

This can be explained easily by Bioware increasing the level of detail for that particular cinematic section.

...

Pardon me, I'll be right back, I have to sign you up for a logic course.

That was funny as heck.

Also I think that Anderson is Shep's strong will trying to stop the indoc. Maybe TIM is the side that Shep can respect and Harpenger is trying to use that against Shep.

[OdanUrr]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Oh REALLY?<_<

So... the trees and bushes that suddenly grew within the 5 minutes after Harbinger left aren't a sign? The blurred horizon, usually indicative of dreams and seen nowhere else in the game EXCEPT DREAM SEQUENCES, is not a sign? Then I suppose neither is Anderson somehow learning to teleport, Hackett learning you arent dead within 5 minutes and speaking to you telepathically, TIM's brand spanking new manipulative powers, or why your gun suddely became the same Carnifex Mordin gave you, or why it is that it never requires reloading, unlike the beginning of the game where even though you had unlimited ammo for certain segments, you still had to reload, doesn't happen to be a sign either.

Perhaps seeing piles of dramitically, shifted, and perhaps mutated would be a better word, piles of bodies, all of the same two people, wearing *Gasp* Kaiden and Ashley's armor, all with JENKINS' FACE, doll-like forms and bearing a resemblance to the piles of bodies in the Collector ship isn't either. Nor is the Illusive' man's complte lack of interest in the console, or his complete 180 flip on his motivations, going from "I don't need you to agree with me" to "I must make you understand and side with me" isn't either. How about that platform that SUDDENLY APPEARS AFTER THE WHOLE SCENE? THAT A MISTAKE TOO?

How about that wound that Shepard inflicts on Anderson, instead having it appear on his own body instead of the admiral's, must just be a graphical glitch, huh? NOT AT ALL A SIGN OF SOMETHING, IS IT? MUST BE UNIMPORTANT.

Where shall I begin?

1) The trees are there before Harbinger shoots.
2) Shepard has been shot. Why shouldn't he be groggy?
3) Anderson says he followed you up the beam. What's this about teleporting?
4) Someone opened the Citadel's arms. Besides, there's an earlier scene of Joker talking to Thane over some com device that is nowhere to be seen. Odds are these com units are implanted sort of like in Splinter Cell.
5) TIM has been researching indoctrination for some time now. That is what Sanctuary was all about. There is some foreshadowing as to how he may have gotten his powers.
6) I also have the Lancer in every single cutscene, so?
7) Infinite ammo is also there at the beginning of the game.
8) Okay, the piles of bodies resembling Ashley/Kaidan is just stretching it. Come on, even hardcore IT advocates must admit this is a bit too much.
9) What's up with the console? That only opens or closes the Citadel's arms, right? And what's with the villain speech? This is the most tiresome cliché of all time.
10) That is certainly convenient.
11) Shepard's probably wounded all over and he has been holding a hand over that side for a while now.

[EpyonX3]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...



Start at 0:57 so you understand why I believe that it's not.

I've seen this video and it's rather poorly explained.

Shepard gets the bullet wound because he is the one inflicting the damage on himself. If TIM isn't real.. then he wouldn't be able to do harm to shepard.. hence.. shooting anderson in the back doesn't have the same effect.
TIM is also "false" therefore he doens't represent sheps true intentions. It makes it more likely that it would happen with anderson since he represents what we've been fighting for since me1.

Again, where in the scene does are these rules explained?

Also, he's holding the same spot before he shoots anderson and his arms are already covered in blood. Recently people have been pointing out that Shepard began bleeding out much faster after Anderson dies, but ho does he manage to get all of that blood on both of his hans AND arms?

This can be explained easily by Bioware increasing the level of detail for that particular cinematic section.

Arms covered in blood.. not hands. IF you were just shot in the abdomen I'm pretty sure you'd easily get blood on your arms and hands.

I didn't say his hands I said his arms. Or am I misunderstanding your comment?

We neve see Shepard hold his abdomen with his right arm. He should have as much blood there. Also, his arms were bloody already, indicating that he's bleeding from other parts of his body. Him sitting there with anderson or just by himself so long just made the blood build up on his arms.

[Arian Dynas]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Domanese wrote...

Speculation for all!

But seriously Im going to quote a movie quote here that might be relevant for this thread.

"It's a huge mistake to theorize before one has data. Inevitably one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."

There is a question I honestly had to ask myself once I heard said. The question being,

"Are we twisting the facts in game to suit the theory or is it the other way around?"

I also think the people that are against IT should also ask that as well. Might get around to reevaluate what we know in game. Personally I just look at in game facts rather then everything else. I ignore the twitters, the comments and such, because they are double talking and avoiding the questions they are unwilling to answer. (Probably because we are so rabid.)

Food for thought.

I agree. People are overthinking this and are comingup with evidence that isn't there. The whole Anderson thing bugs me the most. There is nothing in that scene to indicate that it's all going on in his head and what the characters represent in his mind.

Oh REALLY?<_<

So... the trees and bushes that suddenly grew within the 5 minutes after Harbinger left aren't a sign? The blurred horizon, usually indicative of dreams and seen nowhere else in the game EXCEPT DREAM SEQUENCES, is not a sign? Then I suppose neither is Anderson somehow learning to teleport, Hackett learning you arent dead within 5 minutes and speaking to you telepathically, TIM's brand spanking new manipulative powers, or why your gun suddely became the same Carnifex Mordin gave you, or why it is that it never requires reloading, unlike the beginning of the game where even though you had unlimited ammo for certain segments, you still had to reload, doesn't happen to be a sign either.

Perhaps seeing piles of dramitically, shifted, and perhaps mutated would be a better word, piles of bodies, all of the same two people, wearing *Gasp* Kaiden and Ashley's armor, all with JENKINS' FACE, doll-like forms and bearing a resemblance to the piles of bodies in the Collector ship isn't either. Nor is the Illusive' man's complte lack of interest in the console, or his complete 180 flip on his motivations, going from "I don't need you to agree with me" to "I must make you understand and side with me" isn't either. How about that platform that SUDDENLY APPEARS AFTER THE WHOLE SCENE? THAT A MISTAKE TOO?

How about that wound that Shepard inflicts on Anderson, instead having it appear on his own body instead of the admiral's, must just be a graphical glitch, huh? NOT AT ALL A SIGN OF SOMETHING, IS IT? MUST BE UNIMPORTANT.

I'm not going to get into the Theory all in one posts but I think we should all move past the trees and shrubs thing.

They are there before you get hit by the beam.



Additionally, the trees and shrubs in your dream look nothing like the trees on the beam scene. In your dreams they're much thicker and taller and the foliage is much more detailed.

Uh-huh...

You quote my entire post... and only attempt to counter one of the weaker points, a point which btw from my own observations, I can saftely discard.

If this were a debate hall, you sir, would be failed. D- !

[EpyonX3]

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...



Start at 0:57 so you understand why I believe that it's not.

I've seen this video and it's rather poorly explained.

Shepard gets the bullet wound because he is the one inflicting the damage on himself. If TIM isn't real.. then he wouldn't be able to do harm to shepard.. hence.. shooting anderson in the back doesn't have the same effect.
TIM is also "false" therefore he doens't represent sheps true intentions. It makes it more likely that it would happen with anderson since he represents what we've been fighting for since me1.

Again, where in the scene does are these rules explained?

Also, he's holding the same spot before he shoots anderson and his arms are already covered in blood. Recently people have been pointing out that Shepard began bleeding out much faster after Anderson dies, but ho does he manage to get all of that blood on both of his hans AND arms?

This can be explained easily by Bioware increasing the level of detail for that particular cinematic section.

...

Pardon me, I'll be right back, I have to sign you up for a logic course.

And this is why people go back and forth insulting each other. Noobsauce and I are having a civil debate without insulting our intelligences and here you come trying to do it to me because you disagree. If you have an issue with what I said, explain why.

There's no need for comments like this.

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Uh-huh...

You quote my entire post... and only attempt to counter one of the weaker points, a point which btw from my own observations, I can saftely discard.

If this were a debate hall, you sir, would be failed. D- !

When did D- become failure? 

[EpyonX3]

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Domanese wrote...

Speculation for all!

But seriously Im going to quote a movie quote here that might be relevant for this thread.

"It's a huge mistake to theorize before one has data. Inevitably one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."

There is a question I honestly had to ask myself once I heard said. The question being,

"Are we twisting the facts in game to suit the theory or is it the other way around?"

I also think the people that are against IT should also ask that as well. Might get around to reevaluate what we know in game. Personally I just look at in game facts rather then everything else. I ignore the twitters, the comments and such, because they are double talking and avoiding the questions they are unwilling to answer. (Probably because we are so rabid.)

Food for thought.

I agree. People are overthinking this and are comingup with evidence that isn't there. The whole Anderson thing bugs me the most. There is nothing in that scene to indicate that it's all going on in his head and what the characters represent in his mind.

Oh REALLY?<_<

So... the trees and bushes that suddenly grew within the 5 minutes after Harbinger left aren't a sign? The blurred horizon, usually indicative of dreams and seen nowhere else in the game EXCEPT DREAM SEQUENCES, is not a sign? Then I suppose neither is Anderson somehow learning to teleport, Hackett learning you arent dead within 5 minutes and speaking to you telepathically, TIM's brand spanking new manipulative powers, or why your gun suddely became the same Carnifex Mordin gave you, or why it is that it never requires reloading, unlike the beginning of the game where even though you had unlimited ammo for certain segments, you still had to reload, doesn't happen to be a sign either.

Perhaps seeing piles of dramitically, shifted, and perhaps mutated would be a better word, piles of bodies, all of the same two people, wearing *Gasp* Kaiden and Ashley's armor, all with JENKINS' FACE, doll-like forms and bearing a resemblance to the piles of bodies in the Collector ship isn't either. Nor is the Illusive' man's complte lack of interest in the console, or his complete 180 flip on his motivations, going from "I don't need you to agree with me" to "I must make you understand and side with me" isn't either. How about that platform that SUDDENLY APPEARS AFTER THE WHOLE SCENE? THAT A MISTAKE TOO?

How about that wound that Shepard inflicts on Anderson, instead having it appear on his own body instead of the admiral's, must just be a graphical glitch, huh? NOT AT ALL A SIGN OF SOMETHING, IS IT? MUST BE UNIMPORTANT.

I'm not going to get into the Theory all in one posts but I think we should all move past the trees and shrubs thing.

They are there before you get hit by the beam.



Additionally, the trees and shrubs in your dream look nothing like the trees on the beam scene. In your dreams they're much thicker and taller and the foliage is much more detailed.

Uh-huh...

You quote my entire post... and only attempt to counter one of the weaker points, a point which btw from my own observations, I can saftely discard.

If this were a debate hall, you sir, would be failed. D- !

All of your points have been debated. Some of your points aren't even valid anymore.
 I'm not wasting my time arguing them again.

I thought my post was clear about that.

[n00bsauce2010]

Sad fact: no one knows how the ending should be interpreted. The subtle hints are at least enough to craft a theory.. and it's one i indeed support. Like i said before.. i don't think they planned this from the start though... maybe they did. I def think the subtle hints are there for a reason. Yes.. some bits of "evidence" are more valid than others. The trees.. are imo.. not a valid point. However the steer away from the mass effect we knew seems to be the best I can think of. And of course.. my own opinion about the child not being real... (indoctrination or not) except for the first time.

Someone said that the options of logic are-

1. bioware planned this from the start.. but didn't correctly predict the outrage and have poorly handled PR

2. The writing went to ****... and/or they decided to go in a completely different direction in the last 10-15 minutes of the game.

which one seems better to you?

[llbountyhunter]

OdanUrr wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Oh REALLY?<_<

So... the trees and bushes that suddenly grew within the 5 minutes after Harbinger left aren't a sign? The blurred horizon, usually indicative of dreams and seen nowhere else in the game EXCEPT DREAM SEQUENCES, is not a sign? Then I suppose neither is Anderson somehow learning to teleport, Hackett learning you arent dead within 5 minutes and speaking to you telepathically, TIM's brand spanking new manipulative powers, or why your gun suddely became the same Carnifex Mordin gave you, or why it is that it never requires reloading, unlike the beginning of the game where even though you had unlimited ammo for certain segments, you still had to reload, doesn't happen to be a sign either.

Perhaps seeing piles of dramitically, shifted, and perhaps mutated would be a better word, piles of bodies, all of the same two people, wearing *Gasp* Kaiden and Ashley's armor, all with JENKINS' FACE, doll-like forms and bearing a resemblance to the piles of bodies in the Collector ship isn't either. Nor is the Illusive' man's complte lack of interest in the console, or his complete 180 flip on his motivations, going from "I don't need you to agree with me" to "I must make you understand and side with me" isn't either. How about that platform that SUDDENLY APPEARS AFTER THE WHOLE SCENE? THAT A MISTAKE TOO?

How about that wound that Shepard inflicts on Anderson, instead having it appear on his own body instead of the admiral's, must just be a graphical glitch, huh? NOT AT ALL A SIGN OF SOMETHING, IS IT? MUST BE UNIMPORTANT.

Where shall I begin?

1) The trees are there before Harbinger shoots.
2) Shepard has been shot. Why shouldn't he be groggy?
3) Anderson says he followed you up the beam. What's this about teleporting?
4) Someone opened the Citadel's arms. Besides, there's an earlier scene of Joker talking to Thane over some com device that is nowhere to be seen. Odds are these com units are implanted sort of like in Splinter Cell.
5) TIM has been researching indoctrination for some time now. That is what Sanctuary was all about. There is some foreshadowing as to how he may have gotten his powers.
6) I also have the Lancer in every single cutscene, so?
7) Infinite ammo is also there at the beginning of the game.
8) Okay, the piles of bodies resembling Ashley/Kaidan is just stretching it. Come on, even hardcore IT advocates must admit this is a bit too much.
9) What's up with the console? That only opens or closes the Citadel's arms, right? And what's with the villain speech? This is the most tiresome cliché of all time.
10) That is certainly convenient.
11) Shepard's probably wounded all over and he has been holding a hand over that side for a while now.

just want to point out that number 7 (along with others) is wrong, you DONT  have infinate ammo in the beginning of the game... in fact the only other place you have infinate ammo is during the geth consensus mission....

what about the fact that harbinger (the master indoctrinator) is the last reaper you see?
similarities in TIMS room and the citadel, as well as parts of the shadow broker ship.....why have electric panels if theres no storm? (like in shadow broker) .... its all peiced together in sheps mind.

[Iconoclaste]

llbountyhunter wrote...

similarities in TIMS room and the citadel, as well as parts of the shadow broker ship.....why have electric panels if theres no storm? (like in shadow broker) .... its all peiced together in sheps mind.

Yeah. Why?

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 16 avril 2012 - 03:13 .

[Arian Dynas]

OdanUrr wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Oh REALLY?<_<

So... the trees and bushes that suddenly grew within the 5 minutes after Harbinger left aren't a sign? The blurred horizon, usually indicative of dreams and seen nowhere else in the game EXCEPT DREAM SEQUENCES, is not a sign? Then I suppose neither is Anderson somehow learning to teleport, Hackett learning you arent dead within 5 minutes and speaking to you telepathically, TIM's brand spanking new manipulative powers, or why your gun suddely became the same Carnifex Mordin gave you, or why it is that it never requires reloading, unlike the beginning of the game where even though you had unlimited ammo for certain segments, you still had to reload, doesn't happen to be a sign either.

Perhaps seeing piles of dramitically, shifted, and perhaps mutated would be a better word, piles of bodies, all of the same two people, wearing *Gasp* Kaiden and Ashley's armor, all with JENKINS' FACE, doll-like forms and bearing a resemblance to the piles of bodies in the Collector ship isn't either. Nor is the Illusive' man's complte lack of interest in the console, or his complete 180 flip on his motivations, going from "I don't need you to agree with me" to "I must make you understand and side with me" isn't either. How about that platform that SUDDENLY APPEARS AFTER THE WHOLE SCENE? THAT A MISTAKE TOO?

How about that wound that Shepard inflicts on Anderson, instead having it appear on his own body instead of the admiral's, must just be a graphical glitch, huh? NOT AT ALL A SIGN OF SOMETHING, IS IT? MUST BE UNIMPORTANT.

Where shall I begin?

1) The trees are there before Harbinger shoots.
2) Shepard has been shot. Why shouldn't he be groggy?
3) Anderson says he followed you up the beam. What's this about teleporting?
4) Someone opened the Citadel's arms. Besides, there's an earlier scene of Joker talking to Thane over some com device that is nowhere to be seen. Odds are these com units are implanted sort of like in Splinter Cell.
5) TIM has been researching indoctrination for some time now. That is what Sanctuary was all about. There is some foreshadowing as to how he may have gotten his powers.
6) I also have the Lancer in every single cutscene, so?
7) Infinite ammo is also there at the beginning of the game.
8) Okay, the piles of bodies resembling Ashley/Kaidan is just stretching it. Come on, even hardcore IT advocates must admit this is a bit too much.
9) What's up with the console? That only opens or closes the Citadel's arms, right? And what's with the villain speech? This is the most tiresome cliché of all time.
10) That is certainly convenient.
11) Shepard's probably wounded all over and he has been holding a hand over that side for a while now.

Oh.... this is going to be fun..... Point for point, quid pro quo.

1. The trees I am talking about are small, saplings and tumbleweed like bushes that where RIGHT where the entire force was charging not 5 minutes beforehand, aside from the logical step that a single tank would be more than enough to crush one of them, NO they are NOT there prior to Harbinger's beam.
2. Supposition. Shepard is groggy a number of times. Why does the background not change then? Do not present suppositions as facts.
3. How is it physically possible for Anderson to have FOLLOWED you up the beam and yet somehow gets to the console BEFORE you do, when there are NO other approaches to said console?
4. Shepard's armor is destroyed. He has no radio. How is it physically possible for him to contact Hackett? Morever, at the very beginning SHEPARD HAS TO COLLECT A RADIO TO CONTACT THE NORMANDY. Once again, you present supposition as fact.
5. Uh huh.. so you admit then that Shepard is being indoctrinated by TIM? Or are you saying that TIM somehow has this new power to mentally manipulate others, which has not been established beforehand? He studied indoctrination to learn how to ensure loyalty from his followers, not to gain magic controlling with his mind powers.
6. The Carnifex is NOT a generic gun, if the thought was "This is one big long generic cutscene, so we're just giving them basic equipment" then why not a Predator? The Carnifex is only used in two instances, one when killing Mordin, and two WHEN YOU ACTUALLY HAVE THE GUN PICKED.
7. You weren't listening were you? I mentioned infinite ammo at the beginning of the game, but you still had to reload. With this pistol you do NOT have to reload. That had to be specifically programmed.
8. Why? Give me proof they do, and actually try refuting my point, for a change.
9. Probably is not a word suited for the debate hall, supposition once again presented as fact. TIM KNOWS HE NEEDS TO OPEN THE ARMS JUST AS MUCH AS YOU KNOW IT. And you completely ignored as I said, HIS MOTIVATIONS DID A COMPLETE 180! It would require someone completely unaware of his character or emotions writing him to make him act like that.
10. So is your ability to selectively hear things you care not to.
11. Mhm, so they actually went out of their way to show you this wound, IN CAMERA, and then have it, and the blood covering Shepard's hand completely disappear in the next scene. Right.

Try again later, do not join your local debate team.

[spotlessvoid]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Sad fact: no one knows how the ending should be interpreted. The subtle hints are at least enough to craft a theory.. and it's one i indeed support. Like i said before.. i don't think they planned this from the start though... maybe they did. I def think the subtle hints are there for a reason. Yes.. some bits of "evidence" are more valid than others. The trees.. are imo.. not a valid point. However the steer away from the mass effect we knew seems to be the best I can think of. And of course.. my own opinion about the child not being real... (indoctrination or not) except for the first time.

Someone said that the options of logic are-

1. bioware planned this from the start.. but didn't correctly predict the outrage and have poorly handled PR

2. The writing went to ****... and/or they decided to go in a completely different direction in the last 10-15 minutes of the game.

which one seems better to you?

I think the amount of in game evidence, their weirdness about discussing indoctrination theory, and the level of incompetence, obliviousness, lack off oversight, and sheer stupidity required to make option 2 true, seems to make indoctrination theory pretty likely

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 16 avril 2012 - 03:19 .

[OdanUrr]

llbountyhunter wrote...

just want to point out that number 7 (along with others) is wrong, you DONT  have infinate ammo in the beginning of the game... in fact the only other place you have infinate ammo is during the geth consensus mission....

what about the fact that harbinger (the master indoctrinator) is the last reaper you see?
similarities in TIMS room and the citadel, as well as parts of the shadow broker ship.....why have electric panels if theres no storm? (like in shadow broker) .... its all peiced together in sheps mind.

You do not have an ammo counter if that's what you mean but, to all effects and purposes, you do have infinite ammo. You can endlessly shoot at the sky and you won't run out of bullets, that's what I mean. At least not until you get to the building with the kid.

Considering Harbinger's obsession with Shepard, he was probably the only Reaper likely to welcome Shepard to the Conduit. As for how the Citadel being made up of other assets, I honestly don't see it, but would you put it past Bioware to recycle assets?

[Arian Dynas]

EpyonX3 wrote...

All of your points have been debated. Some of your points aren't even valid anymore.
 I'm not wasting my time arguing them again.

I thought my post was clear about that.

If you are not going to waste your time, then get out.

I am not going to further waste MY time educating you.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 16 avril 2012 - 03:19 .

[EpyonX3]

llbountyhunter wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Oh REALLY?<_<

So... the trees and bushes that suddenly grew within the 5 minutes after Harbinger left aren't a sign? The blurred horizon, usually indicative of dreams and seen nowhere else in the game EXCEPT DREAM SEQUENCES, is not a sign? Then I suppose neither is Anderson somehow learning to teleport, Hackett learning you arent dead within 5 minutes and speaking to you telepathically, TIM's brand spanking new manipulative powers, or why your gun suddely became the same Carnifex Mordin gave you, or why it is that it never requires reloading, unlike the beginning of the game where even though you had unlimited ammo for certain segments, you still had to reload, doesn't happen to be a sign either.

Perhaps seeing piles of dramitically, shifted, and perhaps mutated would be a better word, piles of bodies, all of the same two people, wearing *Gasp* Kaiden and Ashley's armor, all with JENKINS' FACE, doll-like forms and bearing a resemblance to the piles of bodies in the Collector ship isn't either. Nor is the Illusive' man's complte lack of interest in the console, or his complete 180 flip on his motivations, going from "I don't need you to agree with me" to "I must make you understand and side with me" isn't either. How about that platform that SUDDENLY APPEARS AFTER THE WHOLE SCENE? THAT A MISTAKE TOO?

How about that wound that Shepard inflicts on Anderson, instead having it appear on his own body instead of the admiral's, must just be a graphical glitch, huh? NOT AT ALL A SIGN OF SOMETHING, IS IT? MUST BE UNIMPORTANT.

Where shall I begin?

1) The trees are there before Harbinger shoots.
2) Shepard has been shot. Why shouldn't he be groggy?
3) Anderson says he followed you up the beam. What's this about teleporting?
4) Someone opened the Citadel's arms. Besides, there's an earlier scene of Joker talking to Thane over some com device that is nowhere to be seen. Odds are these com units are implanted sort of like in Splinter Cell.
5) TIM has been researching indoctrination for some time now. That is what Sanctuary was all about. There is some foreshadowing as to how he may have gotten his powers.
6) I also have the Lancer in every single cutscene, so?
7) Infinite ammo is also there at the beginning of the game.
8) Okay, the piles of bodies resembling Ashley/Kaidan is just stretching it. Come on, even hardcore IT advocates must admit this is a bit too much.
9) What's up with the console? That only opens or closes the Citadel's arms, right? And what's with the villain speech? This is the most tiresome cliché of all time.
10) That is certainly convenient.
11) Shepard's probably wounded all over and he has been holding a hand over that side for a while now.

just want to point out that number 7 (along with others) is wrong, you DONT  have infinate ammo in the beginning of the game... in fact the only other place you have infinate ammo is during the geth consensus mission....

what about the fact that harbinger (the master indoctrinator) is the last reaper you see?
similarities in TIMS room and the citadel, as well as parts of the shadow broker ship.....why have electric panels if theres no storm? (like in shadow broker) .... its all peiced together in sheps mind.

You do have infinite ammo. The difference is that you have to reaload. This is done as a tutorial. You run out when the trigger is activated, when you shoot one of the husks clawing at the wall.

[Rifneno]

EpyonX3 wrote...

And this is why people go back and forth insulting each other. Noobsauce and I are having a civil debate without insulting our intelligences and here you come trying to do it to me because you disagree. If you have an issue with what I said, explain why.

There's no need for comments like this.

You come in here all the time and spout your blatantly self-serving double standard that some crap found using flycam "proves" Shepard is waking up on the Citadel without even attempting to explain how he survived a blast that looks equivalent to a nuclear explosion that he was at ground zero of all the while dismissing any graphics that don't fit your viewpoint as laziness, bugs, and similar handwaves. And you're surprised people wind up annoyed with you?

There's no need for any comment you've ever made in this thread.

[EpyonX3]

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

All of your points have been debated. Some of your points aren't even valid anymore.
 I'm not wasting my time arguing them again.

I thought my post was clear about that.

If you are not going to waste your time, then get out.

I am not going to further waste MY time educating you.

Hey calm down a bit. There's really no need for that. There's no point in debating these points again. We'll be going around i circles. It's a waste of time. Doesn't mean IT is a waste of time.

Need I remind you that you jumped in on my conversation, not the other way around so your agressiveness is unfounded.

[Iconoclaste]

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

All of your points have been debated. Some of your points aren't even valid anymore.
 I'm not wasting my time arguing them again.

I thought my post was clear about that.

If you are not going to waste your time, then get out.

I am not going to further waste MY time educating you.

I second that : those points have been debated, maybe you didn't come across them. Too bad. Just a little research on the forums could provide you these. But since you do not seem inclined into having a real discussion but rather frantically direct others the way you would have them answer your questions, I doubt your good will to find the truth.

[Arian Dynas]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

All of your points have been debated. Some of your points aren't even valid anymore.
 I'm not wasting my time arguing them again.

I thought my post was clear about that.

If you are not going to waste your time, then get out.

I am not going to further waste MY time educating you.

Hey calm down a bit. There's really no need for that. There's no point in debating these points again. We'll be going around i circles. It's a waste of time. Doesn't mean IT is a waste of time.

Need I remind you that you jumped in on my conversation, not the other way around so your agressiveness is unfounded.

...

...

...

My god.

Your hipocrisy has rendered me truly and completely speechless.

[llbountyhunter]

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Oh REALLY?<_<

So... the trees and bushes that suddenly grew within the 5 minutes after Harbinger left aren't a sign? The blurred horizon, usually indicative of dreams and seen nowhere else in the game EXCEPT DREAM SEQUENCES, is not a sign? Then I suppose neither is Anderson somehow learning to teleport, Hackett learning you arent dead within 5 minutes and speaking to you telepathically, TIM's brand spanking new manipulative powers, or why your gun suddely became the same Carnifex Mordin gave you, or why it is that it never requires reloading, unlike the beginning of the game where even though you had unlimited ammo for certain segments, you still had to reload, doesn't happen to be a sign either.

Perhaps seeing piles of dramitically, shifted, and perhaps mutated would be a better word, piles of bodies, all of the same two people, wearing *Gasp* Kaiden and Ashley's armor, all with JENKINS' FACE, doll-like forms and bearing a resemblance to the piles of bodies in the Collector ship isn't either. Nor is the Illusive' man's complte lack of interest in the console, or his complete 180 flip on his motivations, going from "I don't need you to agree with me" to "I must make you understand and side with me" isn't either. How about that platform that SUDDENLY APPEARS AFTER THE WHOLE SCENE? THAT A MISTAKE TOO?

How about that wound that Shepard inflicts on Anderson, instead having it appear on his own body instead of the admiral's, must just be a graphical glitch, huh? NOT AT ALL A SIGN OF SOMETHING, IS IT? MUST BE UNIMPORTANT.

Where shall I begin?

1) The trees are there before Harbinger shoots.
2) Shepard has been shot. Why shouldn't he be groggy?
3) Anderson says he followed you up the beam. What's this about teleporting?
4) Someone opened the Citadel's arms. Besides, there's an earlier scene of Joker talking to Thane over some com device that is nowhere to be seen. Odds are these com units are implanted sort of like in Splinter Cell.
5) TIM has been researching indoctrination for some time now. That is what Sanctuary was all about. There is some foreshadowing as to how he may have gotten his powers.
6) I also have the Lancer in every single cutscene, so?
7) Infinite ammo is also there at the beginning of the game.
8) Okay, the piles of bodies resembling Ashley/Kaidan is just stretching it. Come on, even hardcore IT advocates must admit this is a bit too much.
9) What's up with the console? That only opens or closes the Citadel's arms, right? And what's with the villain speech? This is the most tiresome cliché of all time.
10) That is certainly convenient.
11) Shepard's probably wounded all over and he has been holding a hand over that side for a while now.

just want to point out that number 7 (along with others) is wrong, you DONT  have infinate ammo in the beginning of the game... in fact the only other place you have infinate ammo is during the geth consensus mission....

what about the fact that harbinger (the master indoctrinator) is the last reaper you see?
similarities in TIMS room and the citadel, as well as parts of the shadow broker ship.....why have electric panels if theres no storm? (like in shadow broker) .... its all peiced together in sheps mind.

You do have infinite ammo. The difference is that you have to reaload. This is done as a tutorial. You run out when the trigger is activated, when you shoot one of the husks clawing at the wall.

thats because its a tutorial.... and you DO still run out of ammo... remember:  "out of ammo/ press 'F' to melee"

[Rifneno]

OdanUrr wrote...

You do not have an ammo counter if that's what you mean but, to all effects and purposes, you do have infinite ammo. You can endlessly shoot at the sky and you won't run out of bullets, that's what I mean. At least not until you get to the building with the kid.

Considering Harbinger's obsession with Shepard, he was probably the only Reaper likely to welcome Shepard to the Conduit. As for how the Citadel being made up of other assets, I honestly don't see it, but would you put it past Bioware to recycle assets?

The reason there's unlimited ammo for the first few husks in the tutorial is because you're script to run out of ammo after those so the game can show you how to use melee on the next batch of husks.  It's the tutorial, its main purpose is to teach players the basics of gameplay.  It was a "necessary evil" to show us about heavy melee, making sure we had ammo for using the gun on the first husks and making sure we didn't have ammo to use melee on the next ones.

That said, personally I don't consider the infinite carnifex to be one of the stronger pieces of evidence.

[Iconoclaste]

Rifneno wrote...

You come in here all the time and spout your blatantly self-serving double standard that some crap found using flycam "proves" Shepard is waking up on the Citadel without even attempting to explain how he survived a blast that looks equivalent to a nuclear explosion that he was at ground zero of all the while dismissing any graphics that don't fit your viewpoint as laziness, bugs, and similar handwaves. And you're surprised people wind up annoyed with you?

Nuclear explosion? When and where did that happen? Where was Shepard, exactly?

[paxxton]

Sometimes I think that both pro-IT and anti-IT views are equally valid depending on your background and how you look on certain facts.

Modifié par paxxton, 16 avril 2012 - 03:26 .

[EpyonX3]

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

And this is why people go back and forth insulting each other. Noobsauce and I are having a civil debate without insulting our intelligences and here you come trying to do it to me because you disagree. If you have an issue with what I said, explain why.

There's no need for comments like this.

You come in here all the time and spout your blatantly self-serving double standard that some crap found using flycam "proves" Shepard is waking up on the Citadel without even attempting to explain how he survived a blast that looks equivalent to a nuclear explosion that he was at ground zero of all the while dismissing any graphics that don't fit your viewpoint as laziness, bugs, and similar handwaves. And you're surprised people wind up annoyed with you?

There's no need for any comment you've ever made in this thread.

I've posted pics showing the same stuff without flycam.

I've also admitted that I can't prove shepard survided the citadel explosion without speculating myself and that this is something bioware needs to explain. Hence the Extended Cut.

I never called Bioware Lazy. I'm actually ok with the endings. They're not the holy grail of stories but it was enough.

Games have bugs. You can't deny that.

I am not surprised people disagree or that they get annoyed, in fact I expect it. But insults are not needed, especially when I haven't attacked anyone in this entire thread personally or intellectually.