57139 réponses à ce sujet

[n00bsauce2010]

Arian Dynas wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

byne wrote...

The diameter of the central ring of the Citadel is 7.2 kilometers. And that explosion is farther out than the ring would be.

I used this fun/horrifying tool to see what sort of bomb would have all the explosion contained within a 10 kilometer radius and it took a 100 kiloton nuke to get all the thermal damage stuff to be 10 kilometers across. I'm fairly certain you'd be burned by the heat even some distance away from the explosion though, so I figure its probly equivalent to a bomb even bigger. But I dont really know how bombs work to be honest.


But I'm sure Shepard is fine at the center of that. It just makes good sense.

Let's keep explosions in space and our physics out of this. The two don't go very well hand in hand, I'm afraid.

Can we discard logic, good sense, taste, reason and everything we know about Mass Effect while we're at it?

Sadly.. we can't discard that explosion. There is no f*cking way shep would survive that.

[Big G13]

byne wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Domanese wrote...

I should point out that the IT v2 also makes a conclusion that the breathing scene happens on the Citadel. Of course by the look of the explosion of the citadel, that might very well be inaccurate as well. Not even Shepard could survive that, especially with his damaged armor.

I've never heard that come up as an alternate place for where Shep's breath takes place in IT. Ever.

Me neither, plus I've never once seen any concrete on the Citadel.

I've heard people say the indoctrination begins on the Citadel, but never say that the breath scene takes place there.

+1

[Golferguy758]

byne wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Domanese wrote...

I should point out that the IT v2 also makes a conclusion that the breathing scene happens on the Citadel. Of course by the look of the explosion of the citadel, that might very well be inaccurate as well. Not even Shepard could survive that, especially with his damaged armor.

I've never heard that come up as an alternate place for where Shep's breath takes place in IT. Ever.

Me neither, plus I've never once seen any concrete on the Citadel.

I've heard people say the indoctrination begins on the Citadel, but never say that the breath scene takes place there.

Eeyup.

And there is stone on the citadel! The Krogan statue! I'm sure Shepard just loved the Krogan memorial so much he had to get one last close up look at it 

[byne]

OdanUrr wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

byne wrote...

The diameter of the central ring of the Citadel is 7.2 kilometers. And that explosion is farther out than the ring would be.

I used this fun/horrifying tool to see what sort of bomb would have all the explosion contained within a 10 kilometer radius and it took a 100 kiloton nuke to get all the thermal damage stuff to be 10 kilometers across. I'm fairly certain you'd be burned by the heat even some distance away from the explosion though, so I figure its probly equivalent to a bomb even bigger. But I dont really know how bombs work to be honest.


But I'm sure Shepard is fine at the center of that. It just makes good sense.

Let's keep explosions in space and our physics out of this. The two don't go very well hand in hand, I'm afraid.

Can we discard logic, good sense, taste, reason and everything we know about Mass Effect while we're at it?

You cannot apply our knowledge of bombs to space since most (if not all) of our bombs are designed to work on an oxygen-rich environment (not to mention pressure and other factors).

I just wanted an excuse to use that tool to nuke my town, to be honest. The actual size of the bomb that tool gave me is irrelevant, but I'm just saying it'd need to be a pretty powerful one to cause an explosion that big no matter where the explosion takes place.

[Iconoclaste]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

This blast happens after the beam to Charon mass relay fades out. There are other things happening before that, in this very same cutscene. Those are related to my questions.

By the way, an explosion in vacuum has no pressure to fight against, so it expanses more than it would do on Earth. We cannot infer it's power from just the distance it travels. But that's not the point.

The point you are missing, is that ANY explosion of sufficent force to TEAR APART THE CITADEL would be more than adequate to PULP our hero.

The shockwave may have dislocated the Citadels arms, but it did not blow it to pieces. Even the center ring is still a ring. Lazy animation? Could be. But humans easily survive earthquakes that destroy buildings. They get shaken but they don't "break" because of that.

[Arian Dynas]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

All of your points have been debated. Some of your points aren't even valid anymore.
 I'm not wasting my time arguing them again.

I thought my post was clear about that.

If you are not going to waste your time, then get out.

I am not going to further waste MY time educating you.

Hey calm down a bit. There's really no need for that. There's no point in debating these points again. We'll be going around i circles. It's a waste of time. Doesn't mean IT is a waste of time.

Need I remind you that you jumped in on my conversation, not the other way around so your agressiveness is unfounded.

...

...

...

My god.

Your hipocrisy has rendered me truly and completely speechless.

Can you elaborate?

Must I? I mean you are taking away minutes of my life that I will never get back.

Then don't reply.

I ca't not! For exactly the same reason you are. *GASP* SOMEONE IS WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING AND I THINK I'M BETTER THAN THEM! 

[llbountyhunter]

OdanUrr wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

byne wrote...

The diameter of the central ring of the Citadel is 7.2 kilometers. And that explosion is farther out than the ring would be.

I used this fun/horrifying tool to see what sort of bomb would have all the explosion contained within a 10 kilometer radius and it took a 100 kiloton nuke to get all the thermal damage stuff to be 10 kilometers across. I'm fairly certain you'd be burned by the heat even some distance away from the explosion though, so I figure its probly equivalent to a bomb even bigger. But I dont really know how bombs work to be honest.


But I'm sure Shepard is fine at the center of that. It just makes good sense.

Let's keep explosions in space and our physics out of this. The two don't go very well hand in hand, I'm afraid.

Can we discard logic, good sense, taste, reason and everything we know about Mass Effect while we're at it?

You cannot apply our knowledge of bombs to space since most (if not all) of our bombs are designed to work on an oxygen-rich environment (not to mention pressure and other factors).

so you ignore the ever-present mass effect fields that hold in air, only when they help you contradict IT?  

I see.

[Golferguy758]

@ iconoclaste.

You mean the first "minor" explosion that completely engulfs a shieldless/broken armored/critically injured Shepard? If an explosion is big enough to engulf you it's more than enough to kill you.

[MrFob]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

This blast happens after the beam to Charon mass relay fades out. There are other things happening before that, in this very same cutscene. Those are related to my questions.

By the way, an explosion in vacuum has no pressure to fight against, so it expanses more than it would do on Earth. We cannot infer it's power from just the distance it travels. But that's not the point.

The point you are missing, is that ANY explosion of sufficent force to TEAR APART THE CITADEL would be more than adequate to PULP our hero.

I agree. Given that the diameter of the ring is more then 7km and that Shep was on (a limping) foot at the time we last see him and the fact that the whole cutscene with the rays takes about what? half a minute? There is just no believable way IMO that Shep could outrun that blast somehow.
Oh sure, BW can come up with something (it's scifi after all) but I don't see how they are going to explain this without using even more spaace magic than we already have.

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

I ca't not! For exactly the same reason you are. *GASP* SOMEONE IS WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING AND I THINK I'M BETTER THAN THEM! 

I dont even remember what you two are arguing about, but ca't is not a word.

You lose this argument due to Technical Typo Knockout.

Sorry.

[Vanek86]

Iconoclaste, can you explain why you are teleported to a hallway which leads directly to control panel that opens the citadels arms? You didn't find that a bit to convenient or strange?

[EpyonX3]

llbountyhunter wrote...



isnt that the point of IT, this way we DONT get a reaper off button?

the fact they said that along with "no A, B, C" endings and "gave" use something sooo similar realy makes me just that they were really trying to ****** us off.

Exactly. This is why I like IT. But I'm in no way going to belive it's true until there's something solid. There's also no incentive for me to believe it before it's confirmed or denied.

We are all on wait and see and my position is that IT isn't likely. They said they're not changing the endings. The ABC options will still be there. If IT is correct and the player knows Blue and Green is a trap then no one will ever pick control or sythesis. Removing the variations of the endings and changing their "Artisitc Integrity" that they go on about.

It's not likely is all I'm saying.

[balance5050]

OdanUrr wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

byne wrote...

The diameter of the central ring of the Citadel is 7.2 kilometers. And that explosion is farther out than the ring would be.

I used this fun/horrifying tool to see what sort of bomb would have all the explosion contained within a 10 kilometer radius and it took a 100 kiloton nuke to get all the thermal damage stuff to be 10 kilometers across. I'm fairly certain you'd be burned by the heat even some distance away from the explosion though, so I figure its probly equivalent to a bomb even bigger. But I dont really know how bombs work to be honest.


But I'm sure Shepard is fine at the center of that. It just makes good sense.

Let's keep explosions in space and our physics out of this. The two don't go very well hand in hand, I'm afraid.

Can we discard logic, good sense, taste, reason and everything we know about Mass Effect while we're at it?

You cannot apply our knowledge of bombs to space since most (if not all) of our bombs are designed to work on an oxygen-rich environment (not to mention pressure and other factors).

Well, you can't, but we can 

[Arian Dynas]

Also, we're completely forgetting pressure waves here.

Assuming the Anti-IDTers are right and there IS air where Shepard is, then he is subject to pressure waves that would collapse his lungs like overblown balloons,

If there IS no air, then you have the rather interesting task of explaining how Shep can breath in vacuum. Have fun.

[OdanUrr]

byne wrote...

I just wanted an excuse to use that tool to nuke my town, to be honest. The actual size of the bomb that tool gave me is irrelevant, but I'm just saying it'd need to be a pretty powerful one to cause an explosion that big no matter where the explosion takes place.

That's okay. The cinematic certainly looks like it's trying to convey that message.

[Iconoclaste]

Golferguy758 wrote...

@ iconoclaste.

You mean the first "minor" explosion that completely engulfs a shieldless/broken armored/critically injured Shepard? If an explosion is big enough to engulf you it's more than enough to kill you.

This 1rst explosion has observable effects on Earth, and even in space around the Citadel. Provided you have enough EMS, you don't get the "vaporize" animation, and the effects of this 1st blast is of a range similar to what the mass relays send around them after receiving the "beam signal".

[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I ca't not! For exactly the same reason you are. *GASP* SOMEONE IS WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING AND I THINK I'M BETTER THAN THEM! 

I dont even remember what you two are arguing about, but ca't is not a word.

You lose this argument due to Technical Typo Knockout.

Sorry.

NOOOOO!


I'll get you next time Byne! NEXT TIIIIME! *rowr!*

[Lomerel]

Dwailing wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Sad fact: no one knows how the ending should be interpreted. The subtle hints are at least enough to craft a theory.. and it's one i indeed support. Like i said before.. i don't think they planned this from the start though... maybe they did. I def think the subtle hints are there for a reason. Yes.. some bits of "evidence" are more valid than others. The trees.. are imo.. not a valid point. However the steer away from the mass effect we knew seems to be the best I can think of. And of course.. my own opinion about the child not being real... (indoctrination or not) except for the first time.

Someone said that the options of logic are-

1. bioware planned this from the start.. but didn't correctly predict the outrage and have poorly handled PR

2. The writing went to ****... and/or they decided to go in a completely different direction in the last 10-15 minutes of the game.

which one seems better to you?

Sorry I got hit by several posts and didn't see your reply.

I actually agree with you. I find I have to repeat this, but I like the theory. I just find some parts flawed based on the game itself.

The story has some flaws before the end but nothing as drammatic as the ending. Number 2 would seem the most likely but not in favor of IT. Being that there isn't much solid evidence for Shepard being indoctrinated during the game, it makes it harder for me to believe it.

What hurts it as well are the articles about how the ending came to be. Only two people wrote the end and it wasn't up for review. This would explain why the end is so much different than the rest of the game.

See, thing is, though, that while the ending may have only been written by two guys, those two were the lead writer, who had been co-lead writer since the beginning of the series, and the project director, again, who had been here since the beginning of the series.  And considering these guys both work for Bioware, I find it hard to believe that these guys could have written something that was such an epic fail.  Although, Casey did say he thought that ME: Deception depicted Kai Leng as a bad***.  Yeah, a bad*** who eats cereal in another man's apartment and pees in a vase.  To quote Doctor Evil, "Riiiiiiigggggghhht." <_<

Edit: So, Casey and Mac DIDN'T write the ending for ME3 by themselves?  Cool, just gives us more evidence.  'Cause I find it hard to believe that the WHOLE WRITING TEAM came up with an ending that was such an epic fail.

I was hoping that people will bring that up again. The first time, I created my account, registered the game and had to wait 24hs to post... losing my chance to say something This is my first time posting ever!

So... here is my 2 cents:
Some time ago, I viewed a Star Wars documentary when it was stated that George Lucas was the only one that knew Vader was Luke's father. The scrip all the people knew about said that Obi-Wan was the responsible for the dead of Luke's father. NO ONE knew the truth until they shoot the scene. Even then, The only one that knew about it was Mark Hamill, the one playing Luke. They later altered the dialog of Darth Vader to resemble the original script (A voice actor made all the dialog of Darth Vader in all the movies, and not the original actor). This was made so that no one knew the truth.

I was thinking... if the rumor about just the lead writers writing the ending is true... could something like this had happened? This could explain all the weird responses we were getting thous far

[EpyonX3]

Arian Dynas wrote...

I ca't not! For exactly the same reason you are. *GASP* SOMEONE IS WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING AND I THINK I'M BETTER THAN THEM! 

If that's the how you feel my tone is then I apologize. I'm not trying to prove I'm better than anyone here. Just trying to join the discussion. I do that by not attacking the person I'm replying to.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...



isnt that the point of IT, this way we DONT get a reaper off button?

the fact they said that along with "no A, B, C" endings and "gave" use something sooo similar realy makes me just that they were really trying to ****** us off.

Exactly. This is why I like IT. But I'm in no way going to belive it's true until there's something solid. There's also no incentive for me to believe it before it's confirmed or denied.

We are all on wait and see and my position is that IT isn't likely. They said they're not changing the endings. The ABC options will still be there. If IT is correct and the player knows Blue and Green is a trap then no one will ever pick control or sythesis. Removing the variations of the endings and changing their "Artisitc Integrity" that they go on about.

It's not likely is all I'm saying.

You should know that both Final Fantasy XIII-2 and Asuaras Wrath are doing the exact same thing, they just didn't get nearly the same amount of attention.

[n00bsauce2010]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, we're completely forgetting pressure waves here.

Assuming the Anti-IDTers are right and there IS air where Shepard is, then he is subject to pressure waves that would collapse his lungs like overblown balloons,

If there IS no air, then you have the rather interesting task of explaining how Shep can breath in vacuum. Have fun.

Lmfao.. this guy is hilarious. ^

[Golferguy758]

Wait...so the explosion can't happen because there is no air surroundign the choice area.
But Shepard can breathe jsut fine with no atmosphere in that same area?

Take your pick: Either A. there are mass effect fields that are keeping atmosphere in which would lead to a suitable explosion. Or B. There is no mass effect field and Shepard is actually Lord Frieza and can breathe in the vacuum of space.

Picture related.

[n00bsauce2010]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Wait...so the explosion can't happen because there is no air surroundign the choice area.
But Shepard can breathe jsut fine with no atmosphere in that same area?

Take your pick: Either A. there are mass effect fields that are keeping atmosphere in which would lead to a suitable explosion. Or B. There is no mass effect field and Shepard is actually Lord Frieza and can breathe in the vacuum of space.

Picture related.

holy ****. you guys are hilarious tonight. I love this.

[OdanUrr]

llbountyhunter wrote...

so you ignore the ever-present mass effect fields that hold in air, only when they help you contradict IT?  

I see.

Mass Effect fields are an ingame creation that doesn't exist in our physics. That's okay because we're willing to go along with some things when we "enter" a fictional universe. For instance, I can go along with explosions in space, certainly, but I cannot go along with using physics that apply to oxygen-based bombs to reverse-engineer those kinds of events because the math won't add up.

[byne]

I still want to know why the chain reaction of all the Relays firing clearly begins on Earth with the Citadel, but the Galaxy Map shows the chain reaction as beginning in the (no longer existent) Viper Nebula.

Theres not even a Relay in that system.