57139 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

Sajuro wrote...

Unless of course, you are in a dream inside of the dream.

 

[EpyonX3]

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'd guess it's because the cables aren't there during the final push to the beam but are there on the citadel. It would hurt the thoery somewhat but it shouldn't completely debunk it.

No, they aren't.

Yes they are. Not only are they above your head when picking destroy or control, they're above you head and in plain view when you first get to the citadel.


Here they are above your head. Along with the groove patterns.


http://i43.tinypic.com/34f8g.png

http://i39.tinypic.com/15zlhzr.png

[EpyonX3]

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I don't get why other pro-ITers are so anti-cable. It doesn't hurt the theory at all. And I agree, if it was suspended over rubble it would look like that.

However, the entire run to the beam is steep downhill. If he was knocked directly backwards, that's roughly exactly the angle he'd be at.

I'd guess it's because the cables aren't there during the final push to the beam but are there on the citadel. It would hurt the thoery somewhat but it shouldn't completely debunk it.

I can live with that. The problem I have is that the cables are there, the grooved pattern on the rubble is similar to the blocks on the citadel and the beam's light is missing.

The cables have a symbolic association: Reaper Control/Indoctrination. They're very prominent in the scenes with the Rachni Queen and Legion hooked into the dreadnought. The grooved pattern is about as straightforward an asset-reuse as there is. I think the crumbly nature of the rubble is FAR more telling.

But Shepard is waking up from the dream in this scene. Everything seen at this point should be literal and not symbolic. The Citadel is reaper tech as well so I don't think it's a stretch that the cables would be up there as well.

Asset reuse would seem likely but only if the blocks were still in tact. Each peices of rubble is unique yet share the pattern. They aren't reused assts. Bioware created new assets just for that scene.

The scene serves as a "gotcha" moment for the player. It's a clue to what happened. The prominent N7 tags that Anderson gave you show the player its shepard, and the cables are associated with reaper control, they hint at an indoctrination attempt.

I'm not saying the rubble is asset reuse, just that groove. It's an easy addition to add texture to a flat plane.

I don't know about that first part but I can't really prove otherwise.

Reusing the grove seems unnecessary. If they wanted the player to figure it out at this point they're doing a terrible job. Why put objects there that weren't supposed to be there in the first place?

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I don't get why other pro-ITers are so anti-cable. It doesn't hurt the theory at all. And I agree, if it was suspended over rubble it would look like that.

However, the entire run to the beam is steep downhill. If he was knocked directly backwards, that's roughly exactly the angle he'd be at.

I'd guess it's because the cables aren't there during the final push to the beam but are there on the citadel. It would hurt the thoery somewhat but it shouldn't completely debunk it.

I can live with that. The problem I have is that the cables are there, the grooved pattern on the rubble is similar to the blocks on the citadel and the beam's light is missing.

The cables have a symbolic association: Reaper Control/Indoctrination. They're very prominent in the scenes with the Rachni Queen and Legion hooked into the dreadnought. The grooved pattern is about as straightforward an asset-reuse as there is. I think the crumbly nature of the rubble is FAR more telling.

But Shepard is waking up from the dream in this scene. Everything seen at this point should be literal and not symbolic. The Citadel is reaper tech as well so I don't think it's a stretch that the cables would be up there as well.

Asset reuse would seem likely but only if the blocks were still in tact. Each peices of rubble is unique yet share the pattern. They aren't reused assts. Bioware created new assets just for that scene.

The scene serves as a "gotcha" moment for the player. It's a clue to what happened. The prominent N7 tags that Anderson gave you show the player its shepard, and the cables are associated with reaper control, they hint at an indoctrination attempt.

I'm not saying the rubble is asset reuse, just that groove. It's an easy addition to add texture to a flat plane.

I don't know about that first part but I can't really prove otherwise.

Reusing the grove seems unnecessary. If they wanted the player to figure it out at this point they're doing a terrible job. Why put objects there that weren't supposed to be there in the first place?

The thing is is that it looks too rough to be the same thing, it doesn't even look like metal let alone a "resilient" material. Grooves appear everywhere and mean nothing. 

 

[Voodzik]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...
I'd guess it's because the cables aren't there during the final push to the beam but are there on the citadel. It would hurt the thoery somewhat but it shouldn't completely debunk it.

No, they aren't.

Yes they are. Not only are they above your head when picking destroy or control, they're above you head and in plain view when you first get to the citadel.
Here they are above your head. Along with the groove patterns.

http://i43.tinypic.com/34f8g.png

http://i39.tinypic.com/15zlhzr.png

Okay, I have no problems with the cables. I don't think they prove anything either way. But those don't look like cables to me in the pictures; just like a reverse stepped ceiling.

[EpyonX3]

Voodzik wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...
I'd guess it's because the cables aren't there during the final push to the beam but are there on the citadel. It would hurt the thoery somewhat but it shouldn't completely debunk it.

No, they aren't.

Yes they are. Not only are they above your head when picking destroy or control, they're above you head and in plain view when you first get to the citadel.
Here they are above your head. Along with the groove patterns.

http://i43.tinypic.com/34f8g.png

http://i39.tinypic.com/15zlhzr.png

Okay, I have no problems with the cables. I don't think they prove anything either way. But those don't look like cables to me in the pictures; just like a reverse stepped ceiling.

I can't get a clearer shot without using flycam which is apparently a big no no here. But if you're interested you can check this video out and skip to about 2:45.

The cables in the end are better quality because it's a cg scene.

[Hawk227]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

The scene serves as a "gotcha" moment for the player. It's a clue to what happened. The prominent N7 tags that Anderson gave you show the player its shepard, and the cables are associated with reaper control, they hint at an indoctrination attempt.

I'm not saying the rubble is asset reuse, just that groove. It's an easy addition to add texture to a flat plane.

I don't know about that first part but I can't really prove otherwise.

Reusing the grove seems unnecessary. If they wanted the player to figure it out at this point they're doing a terrible job. Why put objects there that weren't supposed to be there in the first place?

How does Shepard survive something that approximates a 100 kilaton nuke? Which is a bigger screw up, that or reusing an inconspicous groove pattern on some out of place rubble? (EDIT: Maybe not out of place afterall)

EDIT: In the normal dark version of the cut scene, the two easiest things to see are the tags and the cable. They were put there for a reason and made easy to see. That's why I say they're a hint at what happened.

Why go out of your way to make something conspicous for no reason. Can some tiny hardly visible cables 50 yds above you on the crucible be a sufficient enough hint to incorporate that cable in the end? I say no. I know I kept noticing those cables in Reaper missions (as opposed to cerberus ones) so when I saw the ending that's the connection I made.

Modifié par Hawk227, 16 avril 2012 - 06:34 .

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

The thing is is that it looks too rough to be the same thing, it doesn't even look like metal let alone a "resilient" material. Grooves appear everywhere and mean nothing. 

 

I have to say that that rebar looks nothing like what we see in the final scene. Rebar has a dark brown color and isn't very metallic looking.

The cables in the final are chrome like and carry the same pattern that reaper cables do.

I have yet to see blocks near the beam that have rebar in them and that have the exact same grooves.

[Hawk227]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

The thing is is that it looks too rough to be the same thing, it doesn't even look like metal let alone a "resilient" material. Grooves appear everywhere and mean nothing. 

 

I have to say that that rebar looks nothing like what we see in the final scene. Rebar has a dark brown color and isn't very metallic looking.

The cables in the final are chrome like and carry the same pattern that reaper cables do.

I have yet to see blocks near the beam that have rebar in them and that have the exact same grooves.

It's worth ignoring the rebar and looking at the concrete rubble. Does that broken edge remind you of anything?

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

The thing is is that it looks too rough to be the same thing, it doesn't even look like metal let alone a "resilient" material. Grooves appear everywhere and mean nothing. 

 

I have to say that that rebar looks nothing like what we see in the final scene. Rebar has a dark brown color and isn't very metallic looking.

The cables in the final are chrome like and carry the same pattern that reaper cables do.

I have yet to see blocks near the beam that have rebar in them and that have the exact same grooves.

Sorry, I was only referring to your groove arguement. I just don't think the use of straight lines and right angles in assets is a very telling thing. But here's another pic:

  

[EpyonX3]

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

The scene serves as a "gotcha" moment for the player. It's a clue to what happened. The prominent N7 tags that Anderson gave you show the player its shepard, and the cables are associated with reaper control, they hint at an indoctrination attempt.

I'm not saying the rubble is asset reuse, just that groove. It's an easy addition to add texture to a flat plane.

I don't know about that first part but I can't really prove otherwise.

Reusing the grove seems unnecessary. If they wanted the player to figure it out at this point they're doing a terrible job. Why put objects there that weren't supposed to be there in the first place?

How does Shepard survive something that approximates a 100 kilaton nuke? Which is a bigger screw up, that or reusing an inconspicous groove pattern on some out of place rubble?

Calling it a nuke is a bit extreme though.

There is a picture that floats around here that shows the center of the citadel engulfed in a fireball. But what's not shown is the Citadel just half a second after that. The rings where the explosion seems to come from is still in tact. If the force of the explosion was as great as a nuke, that part of the citadel would have been torn to peices.

Could it be that is was left over energy from the blast from the crucible?

[DirtyPhoenix]

Can anyone teach me what is a flycam and how to use it?

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

The thing is is that it looks too rough to be the same thing, it doesn't even look like metal let alone a "resilient" material. Grooves appear everywhere and mean nothing. 

 

I have to say that that rebar looks nothing like what we see in the final scene. Rebar has a dark brown color and isn't very metallic looking.

The cables in the final are chrome like and carry the same pattern that reaper cables do.

I have yet to see blocks near the beam that have rebar in them and that have the exact same grooves.

Sorry, I was only referring to your groove arguement. I just don't think the use of straight lines and right angles in assets is a very telling thing. But here's another pic:

 

Individually they wouldn't matter. But in the final scene you have both. Two items which can be traced back to the citadel.

[EpyonX3]

pirate1802 wrote...

Can anyone teach me what is a flycam and how to use it?

Flycam is a tool that developers build into their games. Mostly for testing and quality assurance. They leave it in but lock the player out.

Here's a link on how to unlock it on the PC. Not sure if it's duable on consoles.

http://www.gametouri...t-3-flycam.html

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

The scene serves as a "gotcha" moment for the player. It's a clue to what happened. The prominent N7 tags that Anderson gave you show the player its shepard, and the cables are associated with reaper control, they hint at an indoctrination attempt.

I'm not saying the rubble is asset reuse, just that groove. It's an easy addition to add texture to a flat plane.

I don't know about that first part but I can't really prove otherwise.

Reusing the grove seems unnecessary. If they wanted the player to figure it out at this point they're doing a terrible job. Why put objects there that weren't supposed to be there in the first place?

How does Shepard survive something that approximates a 100 kilaton nuke? Which is a bigger screw up, that or reusing an inconspicous groove pattern on some out of place rubble?

Calling it a nuke is a bit extreme though.

There is a picture that floats around here that shows the center of the citadel engulfed in a fireball. But what's not shown is the Citadel just half a second after that. The rings where the explosion seems to come from is still in tact. If the force of the explosion was as great as a nuke, that part of the citadel would have been torn to peices.

Could it be that is was left over energy from the blast from the crucible?

It was enough force to move one of the arms of the citadel! I'd say nuke is about right cinsidering how large the citadel is. Again, the citadel is made from a "resilient material".

[EpyonX3]

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

The thing is is that it looks too rough to be the same thing, it doesn't even look like metal let alone a "resilient" material. Grooves appear everywhere and mean nothing. 

 

I have to say that that rebar looks nothing like what we see in the final scene. Rebar has a dark brown color and isn't very metallic looking.

The cables in the final are chrome like and carry the same pattern that reaper cables do.

I have yet to see blocks near the beam that have rebar in them and that have the exact same grooves.

It's worth ignoring the rebar and looking at the concrete rubble. Does that broken edge remind you of anything?

I see a block with two straight lines. I get that, but this is some distance away from the beam. Additionally, this or any other block with that pattern wasn't near the beam.

[Hawk227]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

The scene serves as a "gotcha" moment for the player. It's a clue to what happened. The prominent N7 tags that Anderson gave you show the player its shepard, and the cables are associated with reaper control, they hint at an indoctrination attempt.

I'm not saying the rubble is asset reuse, just that groove. It's an easy addition to add texture to a flat plane.

I don't know about that first part but I can't really prove otherwise.

Reusing the grove seems unnecessary. If they wanted the player to figure it out at this point they're doing a terrible job. Why put objects there that weren't supposed to be there in the first place?

How does Shepard survive something that approximates a 100 kilaton nuke? Which is a bigger screw up, that or reusing an inconspicous groove pattern on some out of place rubble?

Calling it a nuke is a bit extreme though.

There is a picture that floats around here that shows the center of the citadel engulfed in a fireball. But what's not shown is the Citadel just half a second after that. The rings where the explosion seems to come from is still in tact. If the force of the explosion was as great as a nuke, that part of the citadel would have been torn to peices.

Could it be that is was left over energy from the blast from the crucible?

The ring isn't really intact. It's not vaporized, that's true, but it is fracturing and exploding further.

Byne established that a fireball that size (>7.2 km in diameter) would require something on the order of a 100 kiloton nuke. He is near the epicenter, quite possibly at the epicenter of the explosion. An explosion substantially smaller would still be sufficient to kill him.

EDIT: Even being generous he's within a km or two of the epicenter of that explosion. The fireball has a radius > 7km. How does he survive?

Modifié par Hawk227, 16 avril 2012 - 06:48 .

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

The scene serves as a "gotcha" moment for the player. It's a clue to what happened. The prominent N7 tags that Anderson gave you show the player its shepard, and the cables are associated with reaper control, they hint at an indoctrination attempt.

I'm not saying the rubble is asset reuse, just that groove. It's an easy addition to add texture to a flat plane.

I don't know about that first part but I can't really prove otherwise.

Reusing the grove seems unnecessary. If they wanted the player to figure it out at this point they're doing a terrible job. Why put objects there that weren't supposed to be there in the first place?

How does Shepard survive something that approximates a 100 kilaton nuke? Which is a bigger screw up, that or reusing an inconspicous groove pattern on some out of place rubble?

Calling it a nuke is a bit extreme though.

There is a picture that floats around here that shows the center of the citadel engulfed in a fireball. But what's not shown is the Citadel just half a second after that. The rings where the explosion seems to come from is still in tact. If the force of the explosion was as great as a nuke, that part of the citadel would have been torn to peices.

Could it be that is was left over energy from the blast from the crucible?

It was enough force to move one of the arms of the citadel! I'd say nuke is about right cinsidering how large the citadel is. Again, the citadel is made from a "resilient material".

Right but have you seen the hindges that hold the arms to the ring? They don't look like they can hold much stress.

[Hawk227]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

The thing is is that it looks too rough to be the same thing, it doesn't even look like metal let alone a "resilient" material. Grooves appear everywhere and mean nothing. 

 

I have to say that that rebar looks nothing like what we see in the final scene. Rebar has a dark brown color and isn't very metallic looking.

The cables in the final are chrome like and carry the same pattern that reaper cables do.

I have yet to see blocks near the beam that have rebar in them and that have the exact same grooves.

It's worth ignoring the rebar and looking at the concrete rubble. Does that broken edge remind you of anything?

I see a block with two straight lines. I get that, but this is some distance away from the beam. Additionally, this or any other block with that pattern wasn't near the beam.

I'm not talking about the lines, I'm talking about the crumbly edge where it was broken in apart. The broken concrete rubble looks the same as the rubble in the breath scene.

[EpyonX3]

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

The scene serves as a "gotcha" moment for the player. It's a clue to what happened. The prominent N7 tags that Anderson gave you show the player its shepard, and the cables are associated with reaper control, they hint at an indoctrination attempt.

I'm not saying the rubble is asset reuse, just that groove. It's an easy addition to add texture to a flat plane.

I don't know about that first part but I can't really prove otherwise.

Reusing the grove seems unnecessary. If they wanted the player to figure it out at this point they're doing a terrible job. Why put objects there that weren't supposed to be there in the first place?

How does Shepard survive something that approximates a 100 kilaton nuke? Which is a bigger screw up, that or reusing an inconspicous groove pattern on some out of place rubble?

Calling it a nuke is a bit extreme though.

There is a picture that floats around here that shows the center of the citadel engulfed in a fireball. But what's not shown is the Citadel just half a second after that. The rings where the explosion seems to come from is still in tact. If the force of the explosion was as great as a nuke, that part of the citadel would have been torn to peices.

Could it be that is was left over energy from the blast from the crucible?

The ring isn't really intact. It's not vaporized, that's true, but it is fracturing and exploding further.

Byne established that a fireball that size (>7.2 km in diameter) would require something on the order of a 100 kiloton nuke. He is near the epicenter, quite possibly at the epicenter of the explosion. An explosion substantially smaller would still be sufficient to kill him.

believe me and I told you thins before, I can agree. This is something Bioware has to do a real good job of explaining. But it isn't the first time Shepard has defied the laws of real world physics.

[EpyonX3]

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

The thing is is that it looks too rough to be the same thing, it doesn't even look like metal let alone a "resilient" material. Grooves appear everywhere and mean nothing. 

 

I have to say that that rebar looks nothing like what we see in the final scene. Rebar has a dark brown color and isn't very metallic looking.

The cables in the final are chrome like and carry the same pattern that reaper cables do.

I have yet to see blocks near the beam that have rebar in them and that have the exact same grooves.

It's worth ignoring the rebar and looking at the concrete rubble. Does that broken edge remind you of anything?

I see a block with two straight lines. I get that, but this is some distance away from the beam. Additionally, this or any other block with that pattern wasn't near the beam.

I'm not talking about the lines, I'm talking about the crumbly edge where it was broken in apart. The broken concrete rubble looks the same as the rubble in the breath scene.

Why can't the blocks over shepard's heaf crumble in a similar fashion?

[MrFob]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Calling it a nuke is a bit extreme though.

There is a picture that floats around here that shows the center of the citadel engulfed in a fireball. But what's not shown is the Citadel just half a second after that. The rings where the explosion seems to come from is still in tact. If the force of the explosion was as great as a nuke, that part of the citadel would have been torn to peices.

Could it be that is was left over energy from the blast from the crucible?

Ok, even if it isn't, it is still a fireball with a diameter of 10km. That's still pretty huge.

Besides, I still think it is a nuke. The relays have quantum shielded material to keep them invincible to outside damage. According to revelation, the citadel's primary hull is made of the same stuff. So it might survive the explosion (apparently that shielding fails eventually because the whole structure falls apart). Shep however has no such perks so I am still saying he either flies off with the krogan statue or he is not there in the first place or BW just wrote a sloppy sloppy ending .

[Hawk227]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I'm not talking about the lines, I'm talking about the crumbly edge where it was broken in apart. The broken concrete rubble looks the same as the rubble in the breath scene.

Why can't the blocks over shepard's heaf crumble in a similar fashion?

1) As Balance5050 pointed out, he's lying on top of the rubble in that scene

2) They're on the citadel. It's made of some fancy unknown high strength polymer or something. Only concrete/stone crumbles that way.

[Arian Dynas]

i'm not even going to argue with this guy, i'm just so damn tired. I'm going to bed. Night people.

[balance5050]

 He must be sitting on some rubble because if you look at bottom right of the picture, you see his leg positioned at an almost perpendicular angle to his body, which would suggest that he is lying against a surface that is not flat.