57139 réponses à ce sujet

[UKillMeLongTime]

krystalevenstar wrote...

I keep reiterating this point because it's very important not to forget; In the cutscene following choosing 'Destroy' we are shown NOTHING of the geth or EDI or any synthetic life being destroyed beyond The Reapers. It's more likely than not that's because the star child is lying to you about it to try to dissuade you from choosing that option.

and Shep is alive yet he would also die

i think we all just got punked with the mother of all cliff hangers

Ash and Joker did not look upset in my game stepping out of a freshly crashed normandy

[Lugaidster]

BabyFaceNeptune wrote...

ok i'm new to this so bear with me in ME3 you have some dreams yes three of them in the first you chase the kid he burns and it ends same in the second but in the third you and him burn well what if that has something to do with the choices you get at the end of the game what if the dreams are like slow signs of indoctrination you know and the same kid being the catalyst like really? and shep would never make the choices he did so what if like when he got to london he just got all ****** up and the reapers just killed every one and at the end of the game when it shows shep thats him waking up from the indoctrinattion as a result of killing the reapers but if you choose one of the other choices you give in to the indoctrination and die or become some husk or whatever but yeah i mean come on when you are talking to your friend they are pretty much all telling you that you are going to die and this is the end you know like easing you into it like its all a really big mind **** and if this is right bioware could make another game with the shep you know like he wakes up all of earth is done for and he stays on earth or whats left of it to fight the reapers with like some kind of resistance i mean the whole game was a big mind **** like am i just dumb? or do you all feel this way too? i mean why would joker leave earth? and they crash on some random planet really? just the crew of the norm? and how the hell are they going to populate the entire planet? and why would shep destroy the relays? that is just another mind **** with out them they are all back to the beginning haha they don't even show what happends the to earth or your mates but yeah i can go on forever but i dont know how to put whats in my head into words...... oh and sorry for the rant and the missspelling im sure i have some im in the dark cant see the keyboard and feel my fingers and i've been up all night bioware should make a DLC that rewrites the ending like even a short movie like assassins creed embers

Formatting.

[Greed1914]

krystalevenstar wrote...

N3vDawg wrote...

Can I get an explanation for 1m1 theories? What are they?

The two major things I've heard on that front are this;

1. There is 1m1 on a piece of the wall where the catalyst is, and on the opposing wall it's backwards, supposedly to show you things aren't 'quite right'.

2. M is the 13th letter of the alphabet, 13 +1+1 = 15. March 15th is when the game is released in Asia and people think we'll hear from Bioware on that date.

I think #2 is stretching it a bit though. I think we'll hear from Bioware before the end of the week, but I don't think they'll blab the day Japan gets their games before people can even play them.

 
I wouldn't expect anything on the release date for the final region either.  They've already said that they are going to wait for more people to play it, so at an absolute minimum, we're looking at the week after.  But even that is unlikely. 

[Sajuro]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

shimoyake wrote...
For that matter, do we still not know how the Virmire Survivor escaped the Seeker Swarms on Horizon in ME2? That STILL makes me nervous. Something being off there could also explain why, for example, Kaidan doesn't comment about any sort 'hum' or otherwise bothersome effect, but James does.

Good point about the Virmire survivor on Horizon. That bothers me too, that that wasn't mentioned. I fact, I thought that the conflict with the VS at the beginning had something to do with it, but it turned out to just be about them thinking we were still with Cerberus.

However, you're reaching with the hum thing, as the hum James is talking about is clearly audible even to the player (at least I think he's talking about the persistent background hum in the cargo bay).

I had the theory that the VS didn't escape and the Collectors implanted them with something (in Ash's case, a boob job). Or that they weren't THE VS but rather a copy.

[blooregard]

N3vDawg wrote...

shimoyake wrote...

@SomeoneStoleMyName:

I agree entirely. Hearing just HOW dead Shepard was made me... shockingly nervous. It seemed to confirm my long-standing theories (which began at Shep's first nightmare) that something was very wrong with our hero. The disturbed look on Shepard's face shot right through me. Shepard wondering if she was maybe just an advanced AI (or VI, I forget which she said) that only THINKS it's Commander Shepard was stomach-turning.

My love interest's comment of "You're real enough for me" was not comforting, even if it was intended as such. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, so to speak. I see no other reason for bringing this information up again, especially so late in the game.

For that matter, do we still not know how the Virmire Survivor escaped the Seeker Swarms on Horizon in ME2? That STILL makes me nervous. Something being off there could also explain why, for example, Kaidan doesn't comment about any sort 'hum' or otherwise bothersome effect, but James does.

:/

At what point is this hum mentioned and what is its context?

the "hum" is an apprent effect in the early stages of indoctronation as victims complain about a "humming or buzzing" noise which is the reaper signal reprogramming your brain


as to the guy you responded to now that you mention I do find it odd they never explained how the VS escapes the seeker swarms I always assumed the collectors couldn't get away with everyone and ash/kaiden got lucky since that angry colonist said that only half the colony was on the collector ship

[FoxShadowblade]

Greed1914 wrote...

N3vDawg wrote...

J717 wrote...

Leiha wrote...

I've been sleeping from about page 90.. Any big updates?

I'm with you there...but no, sadly.

I'll wait until the 3/15, when the worldwide release concludes to see if the 1M1 theories hold any water, or if BioWare will at least say SOMETHING that day or the day after.

All i know is....when I wake up tomorrow, this thread will be like 450 pages long at this rate, LOL. Keep fighting the good fight, folks. 

Ok, I keep seeing these "1m1" theories mentioned. Any links to clarify this?

Basically, somebody posted some screenshots showing Shepard on the walkway on the Citadel at the end.  On one side, it says 1M1.  On the other side, it says 1M1 but it is inverted like a mirror image.  It probably means nothing, but if you combine it with how TIM's option was blue and Anderson's was red, which is the inverse of what you'd expect, it makes it seem like Shepard wasn't in his/her right mind after being blasted.

Though getting blasted by a beam made to destroy starships and living tends to addle the brains a bit.

[Kusatsu]

N3vDawg wrote...
At what point is this hum mentioned and what is its context?

If you go to the bottom deck and talk with James he'll randomly say "Do you hear that hum?" as one of his repeated lines when you run out of dialogue for that particular visit. No idea what significance that could have though.

[Linus108]

Aigik wrote...

I've read quite a lot of pages of this thread, and there's something I haven't seen brought up yet. And that is...

Doesn't anyone else thing the setup of the final room was a little too convenient? It's like an attraction at an amusement park. To your left, you've got the indoctrination device. To the right, you've got the self destruct conduit. And straight down the middle, you've got the beam. If this place was real, it seems odd that the room would be set up the way it was. You know what I mean?

This....

And remember how Shepard and Anderson both agreed this wasn't like any part of the Citadel they had ever seen. That line kind of jumped out at me when playing.

[Kabraxal]

You know... points have been made about why is the machinery fragile enough for a pistol to destroy it. But the real question... why the hell would you shoot the controls to the crucible instead of actually using a console? I mean... if the whole point of the damn thing was the destruction of the Reapers, why would you shoot something inside it and break it????

Just another little off thing...

[Zhuinden]

krystalevenstar wrote...

Anyone with access to the CE soundtrack, could you take a listen to the last two 'CE - Extra' tracks, Betrayal and Creation, and see if you recognize them from anywhere in game?

Creation is from Character Creation Screen.

I don't know about Betrayal.

[humes spork]

Greed1914 wrote...

Basically, somebody posted some screenshots showing Shepard on the walkway on the Citadel at the end.  On one side, it says 1M1.  On the other side, it says 1M1 but it is inverted like a mirror image.  It probably means nothing, but if you combine it with how TIM's option was blue and Anderson's was red, which is the inverse of what you'd expect, it makes it seem like Shepard wasn't in his/her right mind after being blasted.

The most parsimonious explanation is the level designers were being careless and copy-pasting objects to save time and overlooked the obvious mirroring. Which could go either way by supporting the 'fake ending' bit or the 'just plain rushed, garbage ending' bit. Most of that final sequence is made up of reused assets, though some of it shows a lot more attention to detail than others like the piles of corpses and making them look extremely featureless and doll-like.

[BahamutZ]

Adding to the things people are noticing now... I realized also that if this was indeed a ploy from bioware that they had in planning. If the goal was to immerse ourselves so deep into this that we feel something... and their goal was to shock gamers with the crapiness of the fake ending... then they would pull every cliche thing to compile the fake ending to shock gamers.

Knowing that bioware is a company that must have gamers in it, someone would have brought up the similarity of the current ending to matrix revolutions, to Deus Ex, and many other things... and to tie it up with a "Now shepard is a legend..." Bioware wouldn't do something this horrible to the first trilogy they ever finished... there seems to be more to this than we know.

[Dilandau3000]

Tocquevillain wrote...

In all likelihood, Bioware gave you the "magic gun" and "magic armor" because at that point in the story, narrative was more important than gameplay. 

Not to mention that you had the same magic gun in the beginning of the introduction. You don't run out of ammo until Anderson says you do, no matter how much you shoot.

[Giskler]

ageofadrian wrote...

Considering this is THE biggest thread, i think alot of people keyed onto the fact something was wrong with the ending, that things didn't quite "click" It's what drove me online because I thought I may have missed something in all the tear jerking emotions at the end.

So many people are really feeling this and the theory just makes so much sense when you go back and play it through.

Creation is played during character creation/import.

Modifié par Giskler, 12 mars 2012 - 07:23 .

[Doctor Quinn]

To add we don't know how great the prothean VI is at detecting indoctrination. It can prolly detect invasive indoctrination like Kai Leng where he was indoctrinated to the point that he thought reaper goggles were a great fashion choice. With Shepherd it was more subtle. In his case the Reapers were working on him to become more susceptible to indoctrination when the opportunity presents itself.

[aquaticidioticus]

UKillMeLongTime wrote...

aquaticidioticus wrote...

UKillMeLongTime wrote...

also ya really have to work to get a real crappy ending as it was easy getting over 5k much less 4k

Did you play MP because I found it difficult to get it to 4,000 - I'm currently at 3,800 (something or other) and don't want to touch MP with a ten foot pole.  Bleh.

Edit: meaning EMS after the 50% hit - my total is 6,000 (blah-di-blah more numbers). 

hum i was at 6200 and i kinda did most everything so mp is needed but not much
i forgot that its .50 so hum.....

Well blargh on that.  I thought they said MP wasn't required to get the "best" ending - when it clearly almost is.  I guess it's time to jump into the fray for a few hours; even though I was planning on avoiding MP at all costs.  Not my thing, man.

Edit: and I just realized that there were 2 quests that pooped out on me during gameplay or were glitched.  The Hanar Diplomat with Kasumi and that STG or whatever Salarian dude and Miranda's quest right before her last one - if there is one anyhow.  Both interactions never updated so I wasn't able to complete them.  Not sure if those give you war assets though.  

Modifié par aquaticidioticus, 12 mars 2012 - 07:25 .

[killershotz]

Yeah, after the greatness of this game, why would the ending be like this? Maybe bioware's holding off on adressing anything maybe because the ending was a hallucination from reaper indoctrination. Shepard, throughout his/journey, has shown symptoms of this. Also no one notices the kid except shepard, vega mentions something about a hum, and everything in the end seems to horrible to be true.

[Oddlyotter]

http://www.globalgam...23&d=1331451986

For those who lost these pictures in the explosion of posts. That's the 1m1 things I've seen so far that have been screenshotted.

[G0thicRhino]

krystalevenstar wrote...

I think the people saying that Bioware isn't good enough/couldn't pull this off should really take a look at what they're saying. We're talking about the same people that created this world, crafted each of the games, including this one which everyone pretty much agrees is utterly fantastic until the last 10 minutes. They have more invested in this than even we do. This is their baby. They wouldn't undermine everything they've accomplished with the lackluster ending we have now. All of the evidence we've compiled isn't 'just coincidence' anymore, and we're not scrambling to find things to make this fit. They're not going to say "Hey, look at what these people came up with, let's run with that!" This was planned. There's a clear, deliberate and methodical, cohesive way to follow it to this conclusion. It was easy to say that they might have just missed these things and since this makes so much sense they'd go with it in the beginning, but there is just too many things that fit now. If all the people in this thread have come up with this conclusion from what we've discovered, do you really think that after X amount of years of development, no one on the ME team noticed these things?

THIS IS DELIBERATE.

And it's brilliant.

It will go down not only as one of the greatest game series in history, but the greatest reveal for the ending of that series.

Mass Effect could never go out on a whimper, it's going to go out on an earthshattering bang. Just like it should.

I 100% agree with this.
They want this storm of outrage. It shows how emotionally invested we all are in their games.
Bioware is telling us to think. They're saying "Hey, we know this doesn't make sense." 
The more we think and the more we look at everything, the more indoctrination seems to be the case.

The child. That no one else seems to pay attention to in the beginning. That Shep has nightmares about, which have increasingly more and more background whispering. That comes to Shep again at my point of most desperation and just "tells me how it is" and Shep just goes forth unquestioningly? That tells me that His destruction will also kill me? Why would that in any way shake Shep's resolve.

The hum. Vega points it out. Clear sign of indoctrination.

The Illusive Man. He never tries to take Shep completely out of the picture. How is he always one step ahead of  Shep? Where does he get his information? Is Shep somehow feeding him information subconciously?

The crew. They would never leave me, they wouldn't abandon the universe at the most important battle since... ever.

The "Grandfather." My view of that clip is that, it's the Reapers justifying Shepard's choice in his own mind. So that whatever he chose. Things worked out. He can rest. Thus, making him give up.

I was utterly crushed by the ending and didn't want anything to do with game for a few days, but the indoctrination just makes SO much sense that I decided to try a NG+ and see if something is different.

I'm just wrapping up le Krogan-Turian Alliance, so I'll let you all know if the NG+ makes any difference.

Me, giving Bioware a chance. Here's hoping. <3

[JasonTan87]

krystalevenstar wrote...

 It was easy to say that they might have just missed these things and since this makes so much sense they'd go with it in the beginning, but there is just too many things that fit now. If all the people in this thread have come up with this conclusion from what we've discovered, do you really think that after X amount of years of development, no one on the ME team noticed these things?

THIS IS DELIBERATE.

And it's brilliant.

It will go down not only as one of the greatest game series in history, but the greatest reveal for the ending of that series.

Mass Effect could never go out on a whimper, it's going to go out on an earthshattering bang. Just like it should.

Keep in mind; with such an ending without a closure, it is very easy to see what we each want to see. It's very easy to read into the narrative and find things that are not there. Hope, combined with emotional desperation, makes a most persuasive force.  (This reminds me of TIM's own falling)

I myself am wary of giving the writers too much credit; especially in instances where there is the possibility of me deluding myself into making a masterpiece out of someone's sloppy work.  Traditionally, Mass Effect followed  fairly conventional soap-opera conventions.  Unlike the Matrix, which sought to question reality from the onset, we do not have this meta-narrative coming from the last two games.  Making the last 20 minutes of Mass Effect 3 into a post-modern meta narrative that is an 'indoctrination' of the player; while entirely plausable, is unlikely.

The thing is, we can't tell if this is deliberate just yet.  I'm most willing to buy into this theory, but I can't help but ask myself: 

If this was really true, why hold the 'real ending' back?  Why not just release it with the rest of the game, and be credited for the stroke of genious? Why risk the fan backlash? Why look sloppy when you can look good right off?

Why troll us, their fans?

You know, they could have just told us in a press release, with a sly smile, that it's not over yet.  Then they wouldn't have any of this PR firestorm on their hands.

Even if it was true, the current state that ME3 was released in (supposedly a complete game out of the box) is also paramount to bad writing.  The narrative, as it is now, it violates the reader-writer contract by not offering the real ending to provide closure to the story. Even if there was an overarching meta-narrative embedded within, the writing must be consistant and clear enough for us to reach that conclusion without having a 'panel' to 'interpret' the ending for us. Mass Effect 3 has neither. 

The very fact that the 'panel' has to 'interpret' their vision to us shows how the narrative has failed to communicate the different levels of the narrative.

In addition; the whole crucible sequence itself could have been handled more adequately. Hallucination is not an excuse for sloppy writing.  The writing for the crucible onwards; while brillant if this theory holds true; still feels sloppy and rushed. Imagine how much more convincing if they had a fluent narrative without the gigantic plot holes, and the Normandy had a proper reason for running away with your crew all on it.  It also end with Normandy getting knocked out of FTL, but not show the crew coming out of the Normandy on some random planet.

The fact that the ending feels rushed worries me; because such meta-narrative twists require a high level of finesse to pull off.  

What worries me the most is that people are losing their objectivity, calling what what may very well be a rushed conclusion 'a stroke of genius'.  We must never forget that Bioware is telling us a story, and the very fact that we are unable to see the structure of the meta-narrative clearly (if it even exists) shows an inability to communicate their artistic vision properly through the medium.

So here's to all of us: Keep hoping, keep objective, keep playing.

Modifié par JasonTan87, 12 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[Zhuinden]

BahamutZ wrote...

Adding to the things people are noticing now... I realized also that if this was indeed a ploy from bioware that they had in planning. If the goal was to immerse ourselves so deep into this that we feel something... and their goal was to shock gamers with the crapiness of the fake ending... then they would pull every cliche thing to compile the fake ending to shock gamers.

Knowing that bioware is a company that must have gamers in it, someone would have brought up the similarity of the current ending to matrix revolutions, to Deus Ex, and many other things... and to tie it up with a "Now shepard is a legend..." Bioware wouldn't do something this horrible to the first trilogy they ever finished... there seems to be more to this than we know.

Doesn this make the theory seem more plausible? I'm sort with the oily shadows, really.

[krystalevenstar]

Oh ****. I just googled 'How to tell if you're dreaming' and found a page which includes some signs that really fit with all of this... here is the page for anyone interested

"A good test of whether or not you're dreaming is if your usual waking habits distort or are inconsistent with what is normally done" I'd say a pretty good example of this is killing a Marauder with 4 pistol shots...

[Lugaidster]

Just one question, please don't ignore.

After you defeat Kai Leng, the prothean VI says something about it being too late and you get a renegade interrupt. I, unfortunately, activated that interrupt making Shepard spout "I'll stop them" again. Does anyone know what does he say?

What I'm going to say is conjecture at this point in time, but this got me thinking. If you are sent back to before the Cerberus attack mixed with the "hum" indoctrination theory on James. Maybe to get the true ending you have to do something before actually going to Cerberus?

[Dilandau3000]

Oddlyotter wrote...

http://www.globalgam...23&d=1331451986

For those who lost these pictures in the explosion of posts. That's the 1m1 things I've seen so far that have been screenshotted.

That to me just says they were sloppy with the textures, which wouldn't exactly be the first time.

[blooregard]

Doctor Quinn wrote...

To add we don't know how great the prothean VI is at detecting indoctrination. It can prolly detect invasive indoctrination like Kai Leng where he was indoctrinated to the point that he thought reaper goggles were a great fashion choice. With Shepherd it was more subtle. In his case the Reapers were working on him to become more susceptible to indoctrination when the opportunity presents itself.

you know something? I remember vigil saying something about the protheans underestimating the effects of indoctronation its possible that the prothean VIs were only able to detect near husk levels of indoctronation (kai leng and saren) and indoctronation more subtle like what shepard seems to be suffering from would have been more difficult to notice