57139 réponses à ce sujet

[ElSuperGecko]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Maybe, but not necesarily. Plenty of people in this thread have allready come with potential scribts for the ending under the assumption of IT and many of them dont necesarily require gameplay.

I've been thinking about the whole "clarity" and "closure" scenario.  Maybe - if the Indoctrination Theory proves to be what Bioware intended all along - Bioware were simply too subtle about it.

Maybe, instead of having to think about the ending and fill in the blanks yourself, Bioware will opt - in the name of "clarity" and "closure" - to hit the player over the head with a steeeenkin' big Indoctrination Hammer.

Shepard-is-being-Indoctrinated-Player-Critical-Mission-Failure (cue Saren music)

God, I hope not.  I actually quite like the ending, because it's making me think about the game, the lore, what I've seen, the conversations I've had... I would hate it if everything suddenly became clear cut and obvious.

[Ravel1992]

 For anyone who still think that Joker could abandon Shepard.

koobismo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4weung

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Maybe, but not necesarily. Plenty of people in this thread have allready come with potential scribts for the ending under the assumption of IT and many of them dont necesarily require gameplay.

I've been thinking about the whole "clarity" and "closure" scenario.  Maybe - if the Indoctrination Theory proves to be what Bioware intended all along - Bioware were simply too subtle about it.

Maybe, instead of having to think about the ending and fill in the blanks yourself, Bioware will opt - in the name of "clarity" and "closure" - to hit the player over the head with a steeeenkin' big Indoctrination Hammer.

Shepard-is-being-Indoctrinated-Player-Critical-Mission-Failure (cue Saren music)

God, I hope not.  I actually quite like the ending, because it's making me think about the game, the lore, what I've seen, the conversations I've had... I would hate it if everything suddenly became clear cut and obvious.

I can certainly understand that, but I would prefer closure over them beeing ambigues.

I want to know how my choices the galaxy and even more so i want to know what happened to Shepard. Did he/she live a happy life with his/her love interest? Did Tali get her house on Rannoch? Did little Mordin grow up fine?

It was questions like that from some games that originally amde me take up writing fan fiction (not that i regret that since writing ahs become one of my favorite hobbies) but I dont want to have to resort to my own imagination every time and certainly not in a game so choice heavy as this.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Ravel1992 wrote...

 For anyone who still think that Joker could abandon Shepard.

koobismo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4weung

Spot on.

Joker was with Shepard at Virmire, he flew the ship through the Omega-4 Reay, the relay no ship had returned from before, he fought the collector ship head on in vastly smaller ship and he flew into a dozen Reaper infested combat zones without a sceond thought...and that is just the surface.

He would never leaves Shepard in the middle of combat even if aft and front shields were at 1%

[Vahilor]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ravel1992 wrote...

 For anyone who still think that Joker could abandon Shepard.

koobismo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4weung

Spot on.

Joker was with Shepard at Virmire, he flew the ship through the Omega-4 Reay, the relay no ship had returned from before, he fought the collector ship head on in vastly smaller ship and he flew into a dozen Reaper infested combat zones without a sceond thought...and that is just the surface.

He would never leaves Shepard in the middle of combat even if aft and front shields were at 1%

Joker leaving is somhow like if Sam would have left Frodo when he was stung by Kankra and captured by the Orcs.

[ElSuperGecko]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
I can certainly understand that, but I would prefer closure over them beeing ambigues.

I want to know how my choices the galaxy and even more so i want to know what happened to Shepard. Did he/she live a happy life with his/her love interest? Did Tali get her house on Rannoch? Did little Mordin grow up fine?

It was questions like that from some games that originally amde me take up writing fan fiction (not that i regret that since writing ahs become one of my favorite hobbies) but I dont want to have to resort to my own imagination every time and certainly not in a game so choice heavy as this.

It depends I guess, partly on how much exposition it would take to satisfy all their fans, and what Bioware's plans actually are for the Mass Effect universe going forward.  What you're asking for above is basically going to tie up the franchise once and for all, for better or worse.

Javik said the Reaper war with his people lasted for centuries.  That kind of story could be told over several games on it's own.  In essence, the series up until now has dealt with the threat of the Reapers and ended with their arrival and the opening battles.  If the Indoctrination Theory proves true - and the Crucible itself proves to be another ancient Reaper trap, that means the war could just be beginning in earnest.  Shepard wakes in the rubble... and realises the fight has only just begun.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
I can certainly understand that, but I would prefer closure over them beeing ambigues.

I want to know how my choices the galaxy and even more so i want to know what happened to Shepard. Did he/she live a happy life with his/her love interest? Did Tali get her house on Rannoch? Did little Mordin grow up fine?

It was questions like that from some games that originally amde me take up writing fan fiction (not that i regret that since writing ahs become one of my favorite hobbies) but I dont want to have to resort to my own imagination every time and certainly not in a game so choice heavy as this.

It depends I guess, partly on how much exposition it would take to satisfy all their fans, and what Bioware's plans actually are for the Mass Effect universe going forward.  What you're asking for above is basically going to tie up the franchise once and for all, for better or worse.

Javik said the Reaper war with his people lasted for centuries.  That kind of story could be told over several games on it's own.  In essence, the series up until now has dealt with the threat of the Reapers and ended with their arrival and the opening battles.  If the Indoctrination Theory proves true - and the Crucible itself proves to be another ancient Reaper trap, that means the war could just be beginning in earnest.  Shepard wakes in the rubble... and realises the fight has only just begun.

It wouldnt necesarily have to tie up the franchise.

It could easily be something like "With the Genophage cured the Krogan quickly expanded after having been granted a new planet by the Council due to their role in the war. Still relationships with the rest of the galaxy were strained from the past history with only Wrex and Eve´s leaderhsip keeping hostilities in check"

It provides some closure on your choice, but leaves open future possibilities.

And as for the war just starting, well it is a possibility, but I would argue if we dont defeat the Reapers with what we got now, we wont at all. The time it took to harvest was more th Reapers taking their time to not miss anything than the resistance they faced as any meaninful resistance was blown away at the start of the war. If our fores are deafated at Earth we wont get a second chance beacause we wont have the opputunity to build or train a new force like that.

[Hacedor1566]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
I can certainly understand that, but I would prefer closure over them beeing ambigues.

I want to know how my choices the galaxy and even more so i want to know what happened to Shepard. Did he/she live a happy life with his/her love interest? Did Tali get her house on Rannoch? Did little Mordin grow up fine?

It was questions like that from some games that originally amde me take up writing fan fiction (not that i regret that since writing ahs become one of my favorite hobbies) but I dont want to have to resort to my own imagination every time and certainly not in a game so choice heavy as this.

It depends I guess, partly on how much exposition it would take to satisfy all their fans, and what Bioware's plans actually are for the Mass Effect universe going forward.  What you're asking for above is basically going to tie up the franchise once and for all, for better or worse.

Javik said the Reaper war with his people lasted for centuries.  That kind of story could be told over several games on it's own.  In essence, the series up until now has dealt with the threat of the Reapers and ended with their arrival and the opening battles.  If the Indoctrination Theory proves true - and the Crucible itself proves to be another ancient Reaper trap, that means the war could just be beginning in earnest.  Shepard wakes in the rubble... and realises the fight has only just begun.

Bioware says that this is the end of Shepard's story. But, with the current ending (Mass relays destroyed), it is the entire ME universe end. If IT is right, then the stupid godchild is just a projection of Harbinger. Then, there's a question. Who the hell create the reapers? They are machines, and any kind of machine has to have a creator. And with the reapers destroyed... Well....That's a possible way to contiune ME universe. But reaper war must end in ME3. One way or another. It was conceived as a trilogy. The third chapter must be the end of THIS story. 

[DarksBlade]

ferretbrain.com/articles/article-853    HAH this is probly true

[SixG90]

Hawk227 wrote...

byne wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

byne wrote...

I still want to know why the chain reaction of all the Relays firing clearly begins on Earth with the Citadel, but the Galaxy Map shows the chain reaction as beginning in the (no longer existent) Viper Nebula.

Theres not even a Relay in that system.

Actually, there was a thread the other day (social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11351112) where someone tried to decide exactly where the reaction started and in what order it proceeded. They concluded it started in the apien crest and reached the local cluster 7th (out of17). The whole thread is a good read, but the relevant photos are linked below

i.imgur.com/ul6lw.jpg

i.imgur.com/9uOez.jpg

Of course, this still leaves us with Space Magic as the best answer.

Still seems to me that the chain reaction started at the tip of the bottom arm of the galaxy map, which is where the Viper Nebula is.



The Viper Nebula is the one way at the bottom.

I was onboard with the viper nebula theory till this post, now I'm not so sure. It really is worth the read. The Milky Way in the cinematic is different than the one in the galaxy map, that arm the viper nebula is on isn't really shown. He uses some other landmarks to try and pinpoint everything. Also, the image in the cinematic is rotated about 20 degrees counter clockwise from the galaxy map. In the cinematic, the viper nebula would be substantially farther right. Might be wrong, but worth a read.

PS: I like how someone countered your 100 kilaton Nuke argument with "its space, the physics are different." An explosion 1/100,000th that size would be sufficient to kill Shepard! Too funny.

 
I want to put my two cents too.. yesterday I was playning Priority:Thessia. When you speak to the prothy VI he changes form to a sort of galaxy map, then red hexagons appear in different order on it, while he speaks of the "reaper pattern".
If you take a closer look, the first hexagon that appear, in what we can presume are several cycles, is ALWAYS the Alpha Relay, in Viper Nebula. Not sure what this means, or if it is important somehow, but it's strange considering that in ME1 we were told that the Citadel was the Reapers plan A, and that in the end we see the Relay netowork lighting up in that way, starting from -what I think is- Viper Nebula. 
Sorry if my English isn't corrent, I'm not a native-speaker! 

[Kroen135]

I have seen a few references back to the books of Mass Effect. One of the biggest books to look for references from is the 3rd book "Mass Effect:Retribution". It talks of a man who is captured by Cerberus and implanted with reaper nanites. He undergoes a few changes that it goes into detail about but the biggest spotlight is on the mental battle he has with the reapers.

I wanted to point out one thing that the book says that directly ties into something the player can experience during the second dream sequence. (after the shroud on tuchunka)

In the book the man explains that (while they are attempting to indoctrinate him) that he hears whispers, they are faint. He hears them and they get louder but he can't understand them.

Now if you have read or looked in game yourself about the metallic noise "rumbling" you hear in the second dream sequence if you stand very close to the boy but not enough to end the dream. You hear the metallic rumbling evil sounding "whisper" (You also hear the same thing in the end with the "Oily Shadows" while TIM, Shep, and Anderson are in the control room of the citadel)

So think about that and compare the book section (which is the reapers trying to indoctrinate the man. And the dream with Shep and the boy (which most that support theory attest to the reapers attempt, or atleast side effects of, the indoctrination.

[Tirian Thorn]

DarksBlade wrote...

ferretbrain.com/articles/article-853    HAH this is probly true

Of course it is. 

Especially what Buzz Aldrin says at the end. 

[Earthborn_Shepard]

The ending and especially the Retake-Movement were on gameone this week (a gaming tv show in Germany) and even the head of CCP (who develop EVE online) expressed his support and encouraged fans to continue trying to change the ending

[SCJ90]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

The ending and especially the Retake-Movement were on gameone this week (a gaming tv show in Germany) and even the head of CCP (who develop EVE online) expressed his support and encouraged fans to continue trying to change the ending

Well I don't think that BW will ever change the ending, (if IDT is correct) they dont have to but in my opinion it is not looking good, BW has not said anything that even HINTS to IDT, we are only drawing conclusions from clues in the game, just saying, I hope that IDT is true but I am worried

[LeRavelle]

Kroen135 wrote...

I have seen a few references back to the books of Mass Effect. One of the biggest books to look for references from is the 3rd book "Mass Effect:Retribution". It talks of a man who is captured by Cerberus and implanted with reaper nanites. He undergoes a few changes that it goes into detail about but the biggest spotlight is on the mental battle he has with the reapers.

I wanted to point out one thing that the book says that directly ties into something the player can experience during the second dream sequence. (after the shroud on tuchunka)

In the book the man explains that (while they are attempting to indoctrinate him) that he hears whispers, they are faint. He hears them and they get louder but he can't understand them.

Now if you have read or looked in game yourself about the metallic noise "rumbling" you hear in the second dream sequence if you stand very close to the boy but not enough to end the dream. You hear the metallic rumbling evil sounding "whisper" (You also hear the same thing in the end with the "Oily Shadows" while TIM, Shep, and Anderson are in the control room of the citadel)

So think about that and compare the book section (which is the reapers trying to indoctrinate the man. And the dream with Shep and the boy (which most that support theory attest to the reapers attempt, or atleast side effects of, the indoctrination.

Mass effect had those Salarian scientists in holding cells that went insane because of those whispers, and also on the get Jack mission.

One other thing that Retribution explained is that when you break out of the Indoctrination effect and/or resist you hear a metallic growling noise which in the Catalyst scene was also present whenever shep resisted.

[EpyonX3]

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I'm not talking about the lines, I'm talking about the crumbly edge where it was broken in apart. The broken concrete rubble looks the same as the rubble in the breath scene.

Why can't the blocks over shepard's heaf crumble in a similar fashion?

1) As Balance5050 pointed out, he's lying on top of the rubble in that scene

2) They're on the citadel. It's made of some fancy unknown high strength polymer or something. Only concrete/stone crumbles that way.

1) OK and I spotted that he's partially cover by rubble.

2) What the Citadel itself is primarily made of is irrelevant. What matters is the room whepard was in last.

[Golferguy758]

Actually bioware has made made hints to idt and literal endings through twitter. Speculation!

[EpyonX3]

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Calling it a nuke is a bit extreme though.

There is a picture that floats around here that shows the center of the citadel engulfed in a fireball. But what's not shown is the Citadel just half a second after that. The rings where the explosion seems to come from is still in tact. If the force of the explosion was as great as a nuke, that part of the citadel would have been torn to peices.

Could it be that is was left over energy from the blast from the crucible?

No, it's dead on. As others have said: quantum shielding. The Mu Relay was lost because a nearby star went supernova and the shockwave sent it flying light years away. It was completely undamaged. That's the kind of protection quantum shielding offers. So yes, it's completely reasonable for the Citadel to have withstood that kind of blast. It's actually quite a testament to the power of that blast that it could have done any damage to the Presidium ring.

Edit:  Oh, and to answer the obvious question: the Reapers don't use quantum shielding on themselves because it's kind of like a turtle hiding in its shell.  The same protection that shields you from the rest of the universe also shields the rest of the universe from you.

Weren't the relay explosions in the arrival and the endings caused by an explosion from within the relays and not outside?

Same with the citadel. The explosions are from within, damaging the softer weaker internal parts of the citadel like the arm hinges.

And I thought the reapers had mass effect sheilds surrounding their bodies. The shields being disabled is what led to Sovereigns death.

[EpyonX3]

mrs.N7 wrote...

 
I want to put my two cents too.. yesterday I was playning Priority:Thessia. When you speak to the prothy VI he changes form to a sort of galaxy map, then red hexagons appear in different order on it, while he speaks of the "reaper pattern".
If you take a closer look, the first hexagon that appear, in what we can presume are several cycles, is ALWAYS the Alpha Relay, in Viper Nebula. Not sure what this means, or if it is important somehow, but it's strange considering that in ME1 we were told that the Citadel was the Reapers plan A, and that in the end we see the Relay netowork lighting up in that way, starting from -what I think is- Viper Nebula. 
Sorry if my English isn't corrent, I'm not a native-speaker! 

I'd like to chime in as well.

How do we know the beam went to the Sol relay? There aren't many distingushable patters between the mass relays. If the energy of the beam is similar to the energy sent through the relays, it could be traveling at FTL speeds.

[Big Bad]

Forget Shepard surviving the blast on the citadel for a moment...how did the concrete (assuming there is any) manage to get through the blast mostly intact?  Hell, that stuff practically starts crumbling if you look at it funny!

[EpyonX3]

Big Bad wrote...

Forget Shepard surviving the blast on the citadel for a moment...how did the concrete (assuming there is any) manage to get through the blast mostly intact?  Hell, that stuff practically starts crumbling if you look at it funny!

Well assuming that you take the ending literally, wouldn't that suggest that the blast isn't as destructive as it looks?

[Rifneno]

SCJ90 wrote...

Well I don't think that BW will ever change the ending, (if IDT is correct) they dont have to but in my opinion it is not looking good, BW has not said anything that even HINTS to IDT, we are only drawing conclusions from clues in the game, just saying, I hope that IDT is true but I am worried

That's so far from true that I'm not sure the Hubble could see true from where you are.

EpyonX3 wrote...

Weren't the relay explosions in the arrival and the endings caused by an explosion from within the relays and not outside?

Same with the citadel. The explosions are from within, damaging the softer weaker internal parts of the citadel like the arm hinges.

And I thought the reapers had mass effect sheilds surrounding their bodies. The shields being disabled is what led to Sovereigns death.

- I don't know where the explosion emanate from and honestly I don't care. The fact of the matter is there was a colossal explosion that no one could possibly survive. Being at the epicenter of a 100~ kiloton explosion isn't a minor thing about physics or the little necessary unrealistic part to make good fiction possible. This is something that if you suggested they write into a Die Hard movie, they'd make sure you're legally required to wear a helmet to Wal-Mart for the rest of your life. That's the kind of unrealism we're talking about here.

- Quantum shielding isn't the same as kinetic barriers, which is what we know as shields in ME. I'm not sure the specifics on how quantum shielding works, if they ever explained it at all, but it basically renders the subject virtually invulnerable. AFAIK it's only used to protect the mass relays and the Citadel.

[Big Bad]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Forget Shepard surviving the blast on the citadel for a moment...how did the concrete (assuming there is any) manage to get through the blast mostly intact?  Hell, that stuff practically starts crumbling if you look at it funny!

Well assuming that you take the ending literally, wouldn't that suggest that the blast isn't as destructive as it looks?

No, I think based upon the available evidence, it can be objectively stated that the blast was pretty freaking enormous*!  I just don't see how that can even be debated.  Given this, the only alternatives I see are that Shepard and his absurdly out of place concrete friends survived because of A) Space Magic or they were never on the Citadel.

I can't rule out "A" completely, but I'm choosing to go with "B" for now.

*Little known fact:  PFE is a legimate scientifc unit of meausure that is used in many different contexts!

[SixG90]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Actually bioware has made made hints to idt and literal endings through twitter. Speculation!

 
Could you give some links? I think I've missed a lot ...

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Forget Shepard surviving the blast on the citadel for a moment...how did the concrete (assuming there is any) manage to get through the blast mostly intact?  Hell, that stuff practically starts crumbling if you look at it funny!

Well assuming that you take the ending literally, wouldn't that suggest that the blast isn't as destructive as it looks?

Look...we saw the fireball that was the explosion. Even if the Citadel is built strongly enough to withstand it partially we are still talking about and explosion several km in diameter capable of destroying quantum shielded material.

I have just been to Hiroshima litterally came home yesterday after the end of my trip. I was at the memorial muesum and the pictures there, I have seen first hand the building that was preserved as a memorial. The devastation was immense, nothing close to ground zero survived when the atom bomb exploded...

...and that explosion was not even a a thousanth, no not even a millionth the strength the explosion on the citadel had  to have been and Shepard is relatively close to Ground Zero of that one. There would be no concrete after such an explosion, hell there would be no Shepard if he dosent have any shielding (which he dosent) he would be vaporized.

Shepard supposedly surviving the Citadel explosion is an even bigger bit of Space Magic than Synthesis is.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 16 avril 2012 - 03:15 .