57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Vahilor]

Rifneno wrote...

SCJ90 wrote...

Well I don't think that BW will ever change the ending, (if IDT is correct) they dont have to but in my opinion it is not looking good, BW has not said anything that even HINTS to IDT, we are only drawing conclusions from clues in the game, just saying, I hope that IDT is true but I am worried

That's so far from true that I'm not sure the Hubble could see true from where you are.

EpyonX3 wrote...

Weren't the relay explosions in the arrival and the endings caused by an explosion from within the relays and not outside?

Same with the citadel. The explosions are from within, damaging the softer weaker internal parts of the citadel like the arm hinges.

And I thought the reapers had mass effect sheilds surrounding their bodies. The shields being disabled is what led to Sovereigns death.

- I don't know where the explosion emanate from and honestly I don't care. The fact of the matter is there was a colossal explosion that no one could possibly survive. Being at the epicenter of a 100~ kiloton explosion isn't a minor thing about physics or the little necessary unrealistic part to make good fiction possible. This is something that if you suggested they write into a Die Hard movie, they'd make sure you're legally required to wear a helmet to Wal-Mart for the rest of your life. That's the kind of unrealism we're talking about here.

- Quantum shielding isn't the same as kinetic barriers, which is what we know as shields in ME. I'm not sure the specifics on how quantum shielding works, if they ever explained it at all, but it basically renders the subject virtually invulnerable. AFAIK it's only used to protect the mass relays and the Citadel.

I even don't want to mention thate even in the Synthesis ending (green) which is said to destroy no technologie:

- the Citadel blows up
- the Normandy gets nearly destroyed
- the Mass Relays get destroyed (blow up)

Why should that happen when everything else still is unharmed by the green Space Magic wave?

Same with blue, the citadel is not blown up and the Relays stay mainly intact but..

- also the Normandy gets nearly destroyed

Why when everything else stays intact ?

It is al so bare of logic... this only can be IDT or a very bad dream and/or Star Brat is a liar but such a horrible one that's missing every bit of intelligence...

Modifié par Vahilor, 16 avril 2012 - 03:18 .

[EpyonX3]

Big Bad wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Forget Shepard surviving the blast on the citadel for a moment...how did the concrete (assuming there is any) manage to get through the blast mostly intact?  Hell, that stuff practically starts crumbling if you look at it funny!

Well assuming that you take the ending literally, wouldn't that suggest that the blast isn't as destructive as it looks?

No, I think based upon the available evidence, it can be objectively stated that the blast was pretty freaking enormous*!  I just don't see how that can even be debated.  Given this, the only alternatives I see are that Shepard and his absurdly out of place concrete friends survived because of A) Space Magic or they were never on the Citadel.

I can't rule out "A" completely, but I'm choosing to go with "B" for now.

*Little known fact:  PFE is a legimate scientifc unit of meausure that is used in many different contexts!

I'm going for A. only because I think Bioware was pressed for time and recylced the explosions for the Synthesis ending.

Remember, bioware had to make this game for three platforms this time. The PS3 is not the best platform to program on. I'm sure if there were delays and odd design choices it was because of this.

[Golferguy758]

I would provide links, but i'm at work. They are floating in this thread or someone has screen caps i'm sure they could post

[Tirian Thorn]

"the slickest way in the world to lie is to tell the right amount of truth at the right time - and then shut up."

Robert Heinlein

[EpyonX3]

Vahilor wrote...

I even don't want to mention thate even in the Synthesis ending (green) which is said to destroy no technologie:

- the Citadel blows up
- the Normandy gets nearly destroyed
- the Mass Relays get destroyed (blow up)

Why should that happen when everything else still is unharmed by the green Space Magic wave?

Same with blue, the citadel is not blown up and the Relays stay mainly intact but..

- also the Normandy gets nearly destroyed

Why when everything else stays intact ?

It is al so bare of logic... this only can be IDT or a very bad dream and/or Star Brat is a liar but such a horrible one that's missing every bit of intelligence...

All good points that need explaining. But the Normandy being torn apart is explained in the game. If a ship is caught in a collapsing jump it could be ripped to shreds. Luckily for them bioware gave them an all expenses paid trip to a tropical planet.

[EpyonX3]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Forget Shepard surviving the blast on the citadel for a moment...how did the concrete (assuming there is any) manage to get through the blast mostly intact?  Hell, that stuff practically starts crumbling if you look at it funny!

Well assuming that you take the ending literally, wouldn't that suggest that the blast isn't as destructive as it looks?

Look...we saw the fireball that was the explosion. Even if the Citadel is built strongly enough to withstand it partially we are still talking about and explosion several km in diameter capable of destroying quantum shielded material.

I have just been to Hiroshima litterally came home yesterday after the end of my trip. I was at the memorial muesum and the pictures there, I have seen first hand the building that was preserved as a memorial. The devastation was immense, nothing close to ground zero survived when the atom bomb exploded...

...and that explosion was not even a a thousanth, no not even a millionth the strength the explosion on the citadel had  to have been and Shepard is relatively close to Ground Zero of that one. There would be no concrete after such an explosion, hell there would be no Shepard if he dosent have any shielding (which he dosent) he would be vaporized.

Shepard supposedly surviving the Citadel explosion is an even bigger bit of Space Magic than Synthesis is.

Ok I'm going to say that I agree with everyone's concerns about Shepard surviving. I'd like an explanation as well. But Shepard has run into some phycis defying situations before. He should have been vaporized on re-entry in ME2. Some say his armor and helmet kept him from being vaporized by the plasma, but that then begs the question, How strong is Shepard's armor and why do themal bullets hurt him so easily?

[IronSabbath88]

I played through the Cerberus and Earth missions again last night and I am totally convinced that IT is true even moreso now. I want to make it clear that the broken rubble you see EVERYWHERE looks exactly like the stuff at the end. Not to mention the bended pipes/rebar/whatever that constantly appear sticking out of the concrete like a sore thumb.

I want to reiterate something I said before aswell..

If Shepard was on the Citadel and let's say by some happenstance that there IS concrete or some other sort of similar material up there, if it broke into pieces like that there's absolutely NO way Shepard would survive the blast if it was catastrophic enough to blast the Citadel into pieces. It's impossible, even for Commander Shepard.

Modifié par IronSabbath88, 16 avril 2012 - 03:29 .

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Ok I'm going to say that I agree with everyone's concerns about Shepard surviving. I'd like an explanation as well. But Shepard has run into some phycis defying situations before. He should have been vaporized on re-entry in ME2. Some say his armor and helmet kept him from being vaporized by the plasma, but that then begs the question, How strong is Shepard's armor and why do themal bullets hurt him so easily?

Master Chief's armor in Halo is strong enough for him to not only not be vaporized by re-entry, but also to survive basically unharmed, yet bullets can hurt him.

Sci-fi armor rarely makes sense

[SCJ90]

Rifneno wrote...

SCJ90 wrote...

Well I don't think that BW will ever change the ending, (if IDT is correct) they dont have to but in my opinion it is not looking good, BW has not said anything that even HINTS to IDT, we are only drawing conclusions from clues in the game, just saying, I hope that IDT is true but I am worried

That's so far from true that I'm not sure the Hubble could see true from where you are.

Well in that case I have missed something, could you enlighten me?

Modifié par SCJ90, 16 avril 2012 - 03:58 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Forget Shepard surviving the blast on the citadel for a moment...how did the concrete (assuming there is any) manage to get through the blast mostly intact?  Hell, that stuff practically starts crumbling if you look at it funny!

Well assuming that you take the ending literally, wouldn't that suggest that the blast isn't as destructive as it looks?

Look...we saw the fireball that was the explosion. Even if the Citadel is built strongly enough to withstand it partially we are still talking about and explosion several km in diameter capable of destroying quantum shielded material.

I have just been to Hiroshima litterally came home yesterday after the end of my trip. I was at the memorial muesum and the pictures there, I have seen first hand the building that was preserved as a memorial. The devastation was immense, nothing close to ground zero survived when the atom bomb exploded...

...and that explosion was not even a a thousanth, no not even a millionth the strength the explosion on the citadel had  to have been and Shepard is relatively close to Ground Zero of that one. There would be no concrete after such an explosion, hell there would be no Shepard if he dosent have any shielding (which he dosent) he would be vaporized.

Shepard supposedly surviving the Citadel explosion is an even bigger bit of Space Magic than Synthesis is.

Ok I'm going to say that I agree with everyone's concerns about Shepard surviving. I'd like an explanation as well. But Shepard has run into some phycis defying situations before. He should have been vaporized on re-entry in ME2. Some say his armor and helmet kept him from being vaporized by the plasma, but that then begs the question, How strong is Shepard's armor and why do themal bullets hurt him so easily?

Thermal bullets? Where exactly are we subjected to Thermal Bullets? I have never heard that term in Mass Effect.

I think you mean thermal clip, which is only the heat sinks for the weapons. The actual bullets are solid and primarily stopped by the kinetic barriers.

The armor on the other hand is what is primarily for deflecting heat and the like and we dont have an accurate describtor for how effective they are.

But one thing is certain Shepard can take no amount of extreme heat with his head completely exposed like on the Citadel in ME3.

[DirtyPhoenix]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Ok I'm going to say that I agree with everyone's concerns about Shepard surviving. I'd like an explanation as well. But Shepard has run into some phycis defying situations before. He should have been vaporized on re-entry in ME2. Some say his armor and helmet kept him from being vaporized by the plasma, but that then begs the question, How strong is Shepard's armor and why do themal bullets hurt him so easily?

Master Chief's armor in Halo is strong enough for him to not only not be vaporized by re-entry, but also to survive basically unharmed, yet bullets can hurt him.

Sci-fi armor rarely makes sense

Also, has it been mentioned somewhere that she actually fell all the waythrough the atmosphere? Isn't it possible that she drifted in the atmosphere and was picked by by a ship or something?
Apologies if I'm wrong, my knowledge about the ME universe isn't the strongets.

[IronSabbath88]

Why would BioWare say anything in regards to IT if it was their master plan? That's like spoiling the end of a movie you've been waiting to see all year.

I'm so sick of people taking the "artistic vision" thing wrong and constantly belittling it and making fun of it. If you look close enough, you would see that the artistic vision they speak of is the INDOCTRINATION OF THE PLAYER. I mean it can't get any more obvious than that. If there wasn't some grand scheme to things then the artistic vision argument wouldn't even come up. If you take away the current ending, you take away that vision. Simple as.

I think foreshadowing was used a lot in this game, just not in the way too obvious sense. Because if they made IT too obvious then that would spoil the speculations they wanted everyone to come up with. Let's remember that at the start it was very apparent that all may not seem right with the endings, but as the IT gained popularity throughout the net they started to make the literal ending seem more plausible instead.

Indoctrination is a massive plot device in the Mass Effect universe and anyone who seriously thinks that indoctrination of the player and the player character isn't a ballsy, artistic move then I really don't know what to say to them.

[OdanUrr]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Ok I'm going to say that I agree with everyone's concerns about Shepard surviving. I'd like an explanation as well. But Shepard has run into some phycis defying situations before. He should have been vaporized on re-entry in ME2. Some say his armor and helmet kept him from being vaporized by the plasma, but that then begs the question, How strong is Shepard's armor and why do themal bullets hurt him so easily?

Master Chief's armor in Halo is strong enough for him to not only not be vaporized by re-entry, but also to survive basically unharmed, yet bullets can hurt him.

Sci-fi armor rarely makes sense

Are we talking Halo 3? 'cause Master Chief enters Earth's atmosphere via a pod.

[PluralAces]

The ending wasnt a hallucination, it was just stupid. I could have deisgned a better ending and I have no experience in video game writing.

[IronSabbath88]

PluralAces wrote...

The ending wasnt a hallucination, it was just stupid. I could have deisgned a better ending and I have no experience in video game writing.

Thanks for your wonderful input. I'm sure everyone cares.

[byne]

OdanUrr wrote...

byne wrote...

Master Chief's armor in Halo is strong enough for him to not only not be vaporized by re-entry, but also to survive basically unharmed, yet bullets can hurt him.

Sci-fi armor rarely makes sense

Are we talking Halo 3? 'cause Master Chief enters Earth's atmosphere via a pod.

I never saw any pod. Was that mentioned in a book or something?

Anyways, Noble 6, who had less advanced armor than Master Chief also survived re-entry. Sure, 6 got hurt a litte, but they still survived.

pirate1802 wrote...

Also, has it been mentioned somewhere that she actually fell all the waythrough the atmosphere? Isn't it possible that she drifted in the atmosphere and was picked by by a ship or something?
Apologies if I'm wrong, my knowledge about the ME universe isn't the strongets.

Well, you visit the Normandy crash site and find Shepard's helmet in the wreckage down there, so I'm pretty sure she did indeed fall all the way to the ground.

Modifié par byne, 16 avril 2012 - 04:18 .

[MaximizedAction]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Why would BioWare say anything in regards to IT if it was their master plan? That's like spoiling the end of a movie you've been waiting to see all year.

I'm so sick of people taking the "artistic vision" thing wrong and constantly belittling it and making fun of it. If you look close enough, you would see that the artistic vision they speak of is the INDOCTRINATION OF THE PLAYER. I mean it can't get any more obvious than that. If there wasn't some grand scheme to things then the artistic vision argument wouldn't even come up. If you take away the current ending, you take away that vision. Simple as.

I think foreshadowing was used a lot in this game, just not in the way too obvious sense. Because if they made IT too obvious then that would spoil the speculations they wanted everyone to come up with. Let's remember that at the start it was very apparent that all may not seem right with the endings, but as the IT gained popularity throughout the net they started to make the literal ending seem more plausible instead.

Indoctrination is a massive plot device in the Mass Effect universe and anyone who seriously thinks that indoctrination of the player and the player character isn't a ballsy, artistic move then I really don't know what to say to them.

I agree with every single word. The indoctrination of the player can indeed be considered artistic work.
But for the sake of discussion, at some point they must answer this question, otherwise it will remain splitting the fanbase in two factions for ever. So how long can you hold on to you final conclusion before you start questioning it, based on Bioware's /EA's actions? Or is this faith in IT so strong that no matter what Bioware/EA does can shatter it?

I call it faith, because I'm not able to cathegorize in any other way.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 16 avril 2012 - 04:21 .

[OdanUrr]

byne wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

byne wrote...

Master Chief's armor in Halo is strong enough for him to not only not be vaporized by re-entry, but also to survive basically unharmed, yet bullets can hurt him.

Sci-fi armor rarely makes sense

Are we talking Halo 3? 'cause Master Chief enters Earth's atmosphere via a pod.

I never saw any pod. Was that mentioned in a book or something?

Anyways, Noble 6, who had less advanced armor than Master Chief also survived re-entry. Sure, 6 got hurt a litte, but they still survived.

If memory serves it's right there when he gets rescued. But I agree that sometimes the lore isn't very consistent on what Mjolnir can or cannot endure.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Ok I'm going to say that I agree with everyone's concerns about Shepard surviving. I'd like an explanation as well. But Shepard has run into some phycis defying situations before. He should have been vaporized on re-entry in ME2. Some say his armor and helmet kept him from being vaporized by the plasma, but that then begs the question, How strong is Shepard's armor and why do themal bullets hurt him so easily?

Master Chief's armor in Halo is strong enough for him to not only not be vaporized by re-entry, but also to survive basically unharmed, yet bullets can hurt him.

Sci-fi armor rarely makes sense

Yes but that's at least explained in the story how his suit was able to do that. His suit can withstand those bullets but it renders him motionless.

That's not the case with Mass Effect.

[Aanlen]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Why would BioWare say anything in regards to IT if it was their master plan? That's like spoiling the end of a movie you've been waiting to see all year.

I'm so sick of people taking the "artistic vision" thing wrong and constantly belittling it and making fun of it. If you look close enough, you would see that the artistic vision they speak of is the INDOCTRINATION OF THE PLAYER. I mean it can't get any more obvious than that. If there wasn't some grand scheme to things then the artistic vision argument wouldn't even come up. If you take away the current ending, you take away that vision. Simple as.

I think foreshadowing was used a lot in this game, just not in the way too obvious sense. Because if they made IT too obvious then that would spoil the speculations they wanted everyone to come up with. Let's remember that at the start it was very apparent that all may not seem right with the endings, but as the IT gained popularity throughout the net they started to make the literal ending seem more plausible instead.

Indoctrination is a massive plot device in the Mass Effect universe and anyone who seriously thinks that indoctrination of the player and the player character isn't a ballsy, artistic move then I really don't know what to say to them.

Well said, good sir! Couldn't agree more. : )

[EpyonX3]

OdanUrr wrote...

byne wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

byne wrote...

Master Chief's armor in Halo is strong enough for him to not only not be vaporized by re-entry, but also to survive basically unharmed, yet bullets can hurt him.

Sci-fi armor rarely makes sense

Are we talking Halo 3? 'cause Master Chief enters Earth's atmosphere via a pod.

I never saw any pod. Was that mentioned in a book or something?

Anyways, Noble 6, who had less advanced armor than Master Chief also survived re-entry. Sure, 6 got hurt a litte, but they still survived.

If memory serves it's right there when he gets rescued. But I agree that sometimes the lore isn't very consistent on what Mjolnir can or cannot endure.

It wasn't a pod. He turn on armor lock which made his suit harder and more resistent at the cost of sacrificing his mobility. When the troops found him his was stuck in one position until the lock was released. He then got up and resumed kicking butt.

[OdanUrr]

pirate1802 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Ok I'm going to say that I agree with everyone's concerns about Shepard surviving. I'd like an explanation as well. But Shepard has run into some phycis defying situations before. He should have been vaporized on re-entry in ME2. Some say his armor and helmet kept him from being vaporized by the plasma, but that then begs the question, How strong is Shepard's armor and why do themal bullets hurt him so easily?

Master Chief's armor in Halo is strong enough for him to not only not be vaporized by re-entry, but also to survive basically unharmed, yet bullets can hurt him.

Sci-fi armor rarely makes sense

Also, has it been mentioned somewhere that she actually fell all the waythrough the atmosphere? Isn't it possible that she drifted in the atmosphere and was picked by by a ship or something?
Apologies if I'm wrong, my knowledge about the ME universe isn't the strongets.

We actually see Shepard in ME2 burning up as he enters the planet's atmosphere.

[EpyonX3]

pirate1802 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Ok I'm going to say that I agree with everyone's concerns about Shepard surviving. I'd like an explanation as well. But Shepard has run into some phycis defying situations before. He should have been vaporized on re-entry in ME2. Some say his armor and helmet kept him from being vaporized by the plasma, but that then begs the question, How strong is Shepard's armor and why do themal bullets hurt him so easily?

Master Chief's armor in Halo is strong enough for him to not only not be vaporized by re-entry, but also to survive basically unharmed, yet bullets can hurt him.

Sci-fi armor rarely makes sense

Also, has it been mentioned somewhere that she actually fell all the waythrough the atmosphere? Isn't it possible that she drifted in the atmosphere and was picked by by a ship or something?
Apologies if I'm wrong, my knowledge about the ME universe isn't the strongets.

No he was picked up by the Shadow Broker's agents after the fact.

[Simon_Says]

I just realized. Post-choice, there's the whole RGB explosion sequence. Now, I'm aware that IT holds that they were a vision given by the Reapers as a final "congratulations sucker"/"F-U" to Shepard. It's been noted by some that it's odd that it was apparently all told from a third-person perspective if the whole ending was supposed to be in Shepard's mind. Except we've seen third-person visions before: from the prothean beacons. And we know that Reapers could alter memories. Remember the derelict reaper*? If they could do that, what's to stop them from giving visions of bittersweet, yet maddeningly confusing hope?

Granted it could also be construed as the final recording in Liara's time capsule or something. And there's the matter that there have been scenes in the series where the story was told not from Shepard's perspective (The collector attack on SR-2 for instance) so it's not actually a break from narrative form to conclude the story from a non-Shepard viewpoint.

*I'm thinking back to that mission. Why share memories between the indoctrinated at all? Unless... it's to condition the organic minds to be ready for inclusion into a reaper gestalt mind? This even fits in with a theory I proposed earlier that the reapers themselves were indoctrinated and were essentially a big freaky squid cult seeking converts, when I tried to figure out the Catalyst's B.S. explanation of the cycle.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 16 avril 2012 - 04:32 .

[Naugi]

Why do people call IDT an ending. There was no ending if IDT is ever proven correct. Shepard is on the ground in London and the fate of the galaxy is still hanging in the balance as if someone just hit a giant [PAUSE] button.