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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#37601
balance5050

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EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 
snip

Ccopying to compare easier. 


I see something here that was on the citadel! Give me about half hour I'll make it clearer!


This should be... entertaining.

#37602
SS2Dante

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Gormane01 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 
Posted Image

Ccopying to compare easier. 


I see something here that was on the citadel! Give me about half hour I'll make it clearer!


Ah the suspence :P


*Suspense, unless is it suspicious pence Posted Image


And THAT, dear viewers, is how you correct someone :P

#37603
balance5050

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IronSabbath88 wrote...

Even if it isn't a Mako (which I find highly unlikely) it sure does look like some sort of vehicle. You can clearly make out some type of wheels.


And I'm thinking vehicle that use wheels are much more common on Earth. It's all hovercrafts on the citadel.

#37604
SS2Dante

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@IronSabbath88 yeah, and a...red? stripe, I think. Damn that weird blob!

#37605
XXIceColdXX

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One thing that stood out to me on a recent play through was how the screen flashes white before Harbingers beam actually makes contact.

#37606
balance5050

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XXIceColdXX wrote...

One thing that stood out to me on a recent play through was how the screen flashes white before Harbingers beam actually makes contact.


Like these white lights?


Dreams
http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

Geth consensus
Posted Image

The end sequence
Posted Image

#37607
Arian Dynas

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Greetings peoples! My work is done and I am a free man! And to celebrate my freedom, a bigass long post!

[quote]MaximizedAction
wrote...



[quote]IronSabbath88 wrote...



Why would BioWare say anything in regards to IT
if it was their master plan? That's like spoiling the end of a movie you've
been waiting to see all year.



I'm so sick of people taking the "artistic
vision" thing wrong and constantly belittling it and making fun of it. If
you look close enough, you would see that the artistic vision they speak of is
the INDOCTRINATION OF THE PLAYER. I mean it can't get any more obvious than
that. If there wasn't some grand scheme to things then the artistic vision
argument wouldn't even come up. If you take away the current ending, you take
away that vision. Simple as.



I think foreshadowing was used a lot in this
game, just not in the way too obvious sense. Because if they made IT too
obvious then that would spoil the speculations they wanted everyone to come up
with. Let's remember that at the start it was very apparent that all may not
seem right with the endings, but as the IT gained popularity throughout the net
they started to make the literal ending seem more plausible instead. 



Indoctrination is a massive plot device in the
Mass Effect universe and anyone who seriously thinks that indoctrination of the
player and the player character isn't a ballsy, artistic move then I really
don't know what to say to them.[/quote]



I agree with every single word. The
indoctrination of the player can indeed be considered artistic work.

But for the sake of discussion, at some point
they must answer this question, otherwise it will remain splitting the fanbase
in two factions for ever. So how long can you hold on to you final conclusion
before you start questioning it, based on Bioware's /EA's actions? Or is
this faith in IT so strong that no matter what Bioware/EA does can shatter it?



I call it faith, because I'm not able to
cathegorize in any other way.



[/quote]

I agree completely.

[quote]Simon_Says wrote...



*I'm thinking back to that mission. Why share
memories between the indoctrinated at all? Unless... it's to condition the organic
minds to be ready for inclusion into a reaper gestalt mind?
This
even fits in with a theory I proposed earlier that the reapers themselves were
indoctrinated and were essentially a big freaky squid cult seeking converts,
when I tried to figure out the Catalyst's B.S. explanation of the cycle.





[/quote]

I love this theory.

[quote]ElSuperGecko wrote...



[quote]Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Maybe, but not necesarily. Plenty of people in
this thread have allready come with potential scribts for the ending under the
assumption of IT and many of them dont necesarily require gameplay.[/quote]



I've been thinking about the whole
"clarity" and "closure" scenario.  Maybe - if the
Indoctrination Theory proves to be what Bioware intended all along - Bioware
were simply too subtle about it.



Maybe, instead of having to think about the
ending and fill in the blanks yourself, Bioware will opt - in the name of
"clarity" and "closure" - to hit the player over the head
with a steeeenkin' big Indoctrination Hammer.



Shepard-is-being-Indoctrinated-Player-Critical-Mission-Failure
(cue Saren music)



God, I hope not.  I actually quite
like the ending, because it's making me think about the game, the lore, what
I've seen, the conversations I've had... I would hate it if everything suddenly
became clear cut and obvious. [quote]byne wrote...



[quote]EpyonX3 wrote...



Ok I'm going to say that I agree with everyone's
concerns about Shepard surviving. I'd like an explanation as well. But Shepard
has run into some phycis defying situations before. He should have been
vaporized on re-entry in ME2. Some say his armor and helmet kept him from being
vaporized by the plasma, but that then begs the question, How strong is
Shepard's armor and why do themal bullets hurt him so easily?



[/quote]



Master Chief's armor in Halo is strong enough
for him to not only not be vaporized by re-entry, but also to survive basically
unharmed, yet bullets can hurt him.



Sci-fi armor rarely makes sense

[/quote]



It works because Shep's armor is ablative, meaning
that it shatters to catch bullets, melts off and boils away when exposed to
heat, and his kinetic barriers helped keep the heat off his armor for the
earliest and most important segments, allowing it to last longer. The suit is
designed to survive in certain suitations, each of which has various effects.



Also, remember that Shepard's body was barely
more than a bag of bones, the implact shattered nearly every bone in his body,
the low gravity damaged the bone density, musculature and blood vessels were
preserved by vaccum and freezing, both of which left the body a dessicated
remnant, the only really "whole" part of his armor that remained was
the helmet, which was badly burned, most of the plating melted off, what was
left was little more than scorched plating and a bit of red enamel. His helmet
was the only thing that saved him, keeping enough of his braincage together
that his brain, though dessicated and frozen, was at least intact enough for
Lazarus to do it's work. His face would be destroyed though, giving the
explanation about the facial reconstructive surgurey. Maybe Cerberus just
didn't have any good pictures.

Also, recall, according to the planet statistics, the planet where Shep crashed has about 8/10th's Earth gravity and Atmosphere.

[quote]Storm258 wrote...

My problem is, that I really want to believe the IT. It explains all these plotholes perfectly and the arguments for it are very very good, but only if you stay inside the Mass Effect universe. What about the real world? Now there are these Twitters and stuff which pretty much indicate that the IT is right, or at least something similar is going to come.
Like for example: "Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different." But the question is I got here: Why don't they tell us?! Why don't they say anything clear? BioWare has already lost quite a few customers and fans with it, and with some people actually giviing their games back and get their money back cause of the ending, they loose even more money. So why would they wait so long and don't talk? Something tells me that they are just desperate and don't really want to admit that they messed up. :/
[/quote] 

Because when you have a big ol' plan like this in marketing, if you release it before the moment, then you wasted all of the trouble beforehand. Rendering it pointless. It's like a joke, it's all about timing. Do it wrong and it falls flat, do it at the right time and...



[quote]byne wrote...

[quote]EpyonX3 wrote...

[quote]Bill Casey wrote...

[quote]EpyonX3 wrote...

For one, the reapers wanted Shepard dead[/quote]
Not sure about that...

Harbinger: “Preserve Shepard's body if possible.”

Habinger: “Shepard, you could have been useful.”

Dr. Kenson: "Take him to the med bay and patch him up. We want Shepard alive."
[/quote]

That was after he was brought back to life. Whatever was in his body that made it happen was certainly interesting to Harbinger. Imagine being able to bring you're husks back to life.

[/quote]


[quote]From the Husks codex entry...

After the geth secure a location, they round up and impale dead and living bodies on mechanical spikes. The spikes rapidly transform these victims into withered husks, extracting water and trace minerals and replacing them with cybernetics. The cybernetics re-animate the lifeless flesh and tissue, transforming the bodies into mindless killing machines. [/quote]

The Reapers can already do that.
[/quote]

And they don't paticularly care about doing it. Husks are nothing to them, simple, mindless, animate shocktroops. Material to be used up, tossed away and rendered down into soup.

#37608
Golferguy758

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balance5050 wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

One thing that stood out to me on a recent play through was how the screen flashes white before Harbingers beam actually makes contact.


Like these white lights?


Dreams
pic snip

Geth consensus
pic snip

The end sequence
pic snip


Bioware was lazy!:devil:

#37609
Arian Dynas

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It's good to be back.

Also, loving the shooping you guys are doing, the pictures have given me excellent reading while pretending to do work.

#37610
MaximizedAction

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Voodzik wrote...

@byne....did you notice the shadows?

Every other shadow in the room is going away from the beam of light. Except shepherds. That one is pointing TOWARDS it. What's up with that?


:huh:...:blink:

Daaamn!

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 17 avril 2012 - 12:21 .


#37611
SS2Dante

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balance5050 wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

One thing that stood out to me on a recent play through was how the screen flashes white before Harbingers beam actually makes contact.


Like these white lights?


Dreams
http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

Geth consensus
Posted Image

The end sequence
Posted Image


Yes. Simply...yes.

#37612
Golferguy758

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MaximizedAction wrote...

Voodzik wrote...

@byne....did you notice the shadows?

Every other shadow in the room is going away from the beam of light. Except shepherds. That one is pointing TOWARDS it. What's up with that?


:huh:...:blink:

Daaamn!

Follow-up question: When Shep talks to TIM and Anderson, what about their shadows?


Bioware was lazy. Solves every problem. you could even call it magic...from space...

#37613
balance5050

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[quote]Golferguy758 wrote...

[quote]balance5050 wrote...

[quote]XXIceColdXX wrote...


[/quote]

Bioware was lazy!:devil:

[/quote]

I use this excuse for everything. When my GF nags that I didn't do the dishes or vacuum I just say:

"It's not my fault that Bioware is lazy!!!"

Modifié par balance5050, 17 avril 2012 - 12:27 .


#37614
lex0r11

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balance5050 wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

[...]
Bioware was lazy!:devil:


I use this excuse for everything. When my GF nags that I didn't do the dishes or vacuum I just say:

"It's not my fault that Bioware is lazy!!!"


Man, i should try that one.

#37615
Gormane01

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@ Balance, (in regards to the white flashes) you know what now that you mention it, I noticed that to. I chalked it up to reuse of theatrical device, but coupled with everything else....

Modifié par Gormane01, 17 avril 2012 - 12:28 .


#37616
XXIceColdXX

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I just read in another thread that if you do not play arrival, it comes up in the codex that a special ops team blew up the alpha relay .

If this is correct unfortunately this takes away object rho as the canon start of Shepards Indoctrination.

I was under the impression till now that Shepard had completed arrival and encountered object rho whether you actually played arrival or not.

#37617
SS2Dante

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XXIceColdXX wrote...

I just read in another thread that if you do not play arrival, it comes up in the codex that a special ops team blew up the alpha relay .

If this is correct unfortunately this takes away object rho as the canon start of Shepards Indoctrination.

I was under the impression till now that Shepard had completed arrival and encountered object rho whether you actually played arrival or not.


I regard the start of the indoctrination as the human reaper/collector base, because this plays a part in deciding what ending options you get. Therefore you began to fall before Rho.

#37618
Arian Dynas

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XXIceColdXX wrote...

I just read in another thread that if you do not play arrival, it comes up in the codex that a special ops team blew up the alpha relay .

If this is correct unfortunately this takes away object rho as the canon start of Shepards Indoctrination.

I was under the impression till now that Shepard had completed arrival and encountered object rho whether you actually played arrival or not.


Which is why the derelict Reaper, Reaper Fetus and Harbinger himself are a considerably more obvious start. Object Rho which IS still canon, they just wrote that other stuff in so newbies wouldn't feel left out, is far more booster, than it is starter.

#37619
Fattness132

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XXIceColdXX wrote...

I just read in another thread that if you do not play arrival, it comes up in the codex that a special ops team blew up the alpha relay .

If this is correct unfortunately this takes away object rho as the canon start of Shepards Indoctrination.

I was under the impression till now that Shepard had completed arrival and encountered object rho whether you actually played arrival or not.


There was still the huge human reaper in the collector base.

#37620
balance5050

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XXIceColdXX wrote...

I just read in another thread that if you do not play arrival, it comes up in the codex that a special ops team blew up the alpha relay .

If this is correct unfortunately this takes away object rho as the canon start of Shepards Indoctrination.

I was under the impression till now that Shepard had completed arrival and encountered object rho whether you actually played arrival or not.


There is no canon, but if there was it would include all the DLC.

#37621
SS2Dante

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MaximizedAction wrote...

Voodzik wrote...

@byne....did you notice the shadows?

Every other shadow in the room is going away from the beam of light. Except shepherds. That one is pointing TOWARDS it. What's up with that?


:huh:...:blink:

Daaamn!


Is this in the Crucible? If so the shadows are....weird. I can't figure out where the light source is, your shadow sometimes points forwards, sometimes backwards, sometimes you have no shadow :S

Modifié par SS2Dante, 17 avril 2012 - 12:48 .


#37622
Voodzik

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Golferguy758 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Voodzik wrote...

@byne....did you notice the shadows?

Every other shadow in the room is going away from the beam of light. Except shepherds. That one is pointing TOWARDS it. What's up with that?

:huh:...:blink:
Daaamn!
Follow-up question: When Shep talks to TIM and Anderson, what about their shadows?

Bioware was lazy. Solves every problem. you could even call it magic...from space...

Except not this one. (yes, I know you're joking.) but really, evidence like this is the kind of thing that makes me believe IT. Like the magic pedestal shep and Anderson are lying on at the end and shep's inexplicable roving wound. Stuff theyhad to do EXTRA  work for.

#37623
byne

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Voodzik wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Voodzik wrote...

@byne....did you notice the shadows?

Every other shadow in the room is going away from the beam of light. Except shepherds. That one is pointing TOWARDS it. What's up with that?

:huh:...:blink:
Daaamn!
Follow-up question: When Shep talks to TIM and Anderson, what about their shadows?

Bioware was lazy. Solves every problem. you could even call it magic...from space...

Except not this one. (yes, I know you're joking.) but really, evidence like this is the kind of thing that makes me believe IT. Like the magic pedestal shep and Anderson are lying on at the end and shep's inexplicable roving wound. Stuff theyhad to do EXTRA  work for.


This is probably just a glitch, but I've noticed it happen on multiple playthroughs. When you kill the Three Husketeers before Marauder Shields, sometimes no matter what way they fall, their bodies will kinda bounce around on the ground until their heads are pointed towards the beam. You can see rain and wind being pushed away from the beam, so its not like its sucking them towards it or anything.

#37624
Drago6667

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OH man

creepy

#37625
Arian Dynas

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balance5050 wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

I just read in another thread that if you do not play arrival, it comes up in the codex that a special ops team blew up the alpha relay .

If this is correct unfortunately this takes away object rho as the canon start of Shepards Indoctrination.

I was under the impression till now that Shepard had completed arrival and encountered object rho whether you actually played arrival or not.


There is no canon, but if there was it would include all the DLC.


Actually there IS canon, which is why the ME3 explanations for things are actually discounted, since they require Shepard to not actually have been Shepard during the events of ME1 and 2.

What IS "canon" is there is a human being named Shepard, potentially either named John (the default) or Jane, whom was either born on Earth (and going by the default, was) born in space, or born on an outworld colony attacked by Batarians.

Shepard either was a war hero on Mindoir, survived the destruction of his unit on Akuze (once again, the default) or was a vicious butcher on Torfan.

Shepard visited Eden Prime and was chosen by the Beacon to receive it's message.

Shepard was selected to be the first human spectre and sent to deal with Saren Arterius, a rogue agent.

Shepard was accompanied by Urdnot Wrex, whom possibly died on Virmire, being succeeded by his brother Wreav, or survived to lead the Krogan.

S/He was also in the company of former C-Sec officer Garrus Vakarian, Tali'Zorah nar Rayya, whom he helped complete her pilgrimage, Gunnery Chief Ashley Williams, who either died on Virmire, or survived to rise in the ranks of the Alliance military, Lt. Kaiden Alenko, whom also either died or raised in the ranks, and Dr. Liara T'soni, whom eventually became the Shadow Broker.

Shepard visited Feros and recovered the Cipher, Visited Noveria and either released the Rachni Queen (the default) or killed her.

Shepard visited Virmire and destroyed Saren's base. Shepard then found the conduit on Illos and met Vigil.

Shepard then returned to the Citadel and either, convinced Saren to commit suicide, or killed him in combat, Soverign was killed as a result of these actions and the council was either saved (the default) or killed and replaced with an all human council, which was eventually superseded by a later council of several races.

Shepard then chose one representative for humanity, who was either Udina, or Anderson, whom would eventually step down from his post and be replaced by Udina in the end.

Shepard was then sent on a mission into Geth space and was killed by the Collectors, the Normandy destroyed. Shepard gathered a team consisting of Mordin Solus, Garrus Vakarian, Miranda Lawson, Jacob Taylor, Thane Krios, and potentially Urdnot Grunt, Leigon, Zaeed Massani, Kasumi Goto, Samara the Justicar or Morinth. Any of whom could die on the suicide mission.

The Alpha relay was destroyed, and Shepard turned himself/herself in for his crimes.

One way or another, there IS canon in Mass Effect.