57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Lugaidster]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

JasonTan87 wrote...

Keep in mind; with such an ending without a closure, it is very easy to see what we each want to see. It's very easy to read into the narrative and find things that are not there. Hope, combined with emotional desperation, makes a most persuasive force.  (This reminds me of TIM's own falling)

Exactly. I agree there is a case to be made for the idea of it being a hallucination (most prominently the Shepard wakes up scene and the giant gaping plothole of the Normandy crash), but a lot of the other things are just people reading meaning into things because they want it to be there.

An inverted texture (1M1), a gameplay compromise (the magic gun that also appeared in the prologue), and a throwaway line about a hum that you can clearly hear in the game's soundtrack are not evidence, they are finding patterns because you want to see them.

Shepard was holding the wrong gun, including guns that I didn't have equipped or couldn't even use (based on class) in just about every cutscene in all three games. Are these guns also an indication that "something was wrong"?

You can make a case for the dream/indoctrination theory. But don't go looking for evidence where there is none, because you're just deluding yourself.

I'm ok with 90% of what you said. The part that is entirely subjective and actually bothers me is this: "But don't go looking for evidence where there is none". Why are you or any of the other posters more informed as to dismiss anything we read into the game as just "delusion"?

I'm sorry. You can argue that some of the things we put in this post are just wishful thinking, but you don't have any more knowledge over it's meaning than us. Claiming delusion is very different than arguing delusion. Don't delude yourself into thinking you have more information than we do, because you don't.

Please do continue to bring counter-points to whatever is found in this thread, but don't for a second believe that we will take your word for granted just because. Cheers.

[UKillMeLongTime]

letting the reapers catch you is also a fail vs dying in the galaxy map

[Martukis]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Picture it. After seeing the so-called ending, from going into the Citadel to watching the Normandy escape, Shepard wakes up for real. He gets up and moves forward as before, except this time, he and Anderson succeed. They slump down together and have their cool friendship talk with one another, and then they watch as the crucible activates and the tide of the battle turns.

"We did it, Shepard..."

Who between the two of them lives or dies depends on how you played, of course, but the important thing is this.

After all of the planets have been ravaged and billions of lives across every intelligent species has been lost, our heroes finally prevailed, and the galaxy is saved.

Cut to various things, like reuniting with your love interest, Admiral Hackett getting a medal or something.  Moving to Rannoch to live with Tali, taking a vacation with Garrus, sharing a beer with Wrex, or whatever.

 Or maybe studying seashells on the sea shore in place of a certain scientist salarian?

Modifié par Martukis, 12 mars 2012 - 07:49 .

[Sajuro]

El Diablo wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

As for choosing the other two options, maybe you could have dialogue based on that when you wake up like "The Illusive Man was right" or "We should try and work with them, they are only doing things to help us" Or maybe just new dialogue paths and auto dialogue to go along with the fact the Reapers are influencing Shep's thought process which could result in him attempting to sabotage the crucible and either killing himself or getting killed by one of your squadmates.
After Reapers are destroyed in Shepard was indoctrinated, Shepard's face is covered in the husk marks like TIM's was in the dream.
Anderson: The galaxy is going to tear itself part as soon as they learn what Shepard did.
-TIM walks up, marks still on his face, but in control of himself due to Reaper destruction-
TIM: Then make sure they don't, learning Shepard worked with the Reapers will destroy humanity.
-TIM puts sealed Helmet on Shepard to hide the damage-
Anderson: We can't just cover it up that the plan almost failed and now Humanity's greatest hero is dead!
-TIM draws on his cigarette-
TIM: He died stopping me from selling Humanity to the Reapers. The Galaxy already hates me and everything I am Anderson, this way the Hero of Humanity becomes a Martyr rather than a Traitor.
-Anderson pulls out gun and points it at TIM-
Anderson: I can't let you get away, not after all you've done. You almost cost us the war!
-TIM drops his cigarette and steps on it to put it out-
TIM: I know, and like I said before I will advance humanity at any cost, even if it's my life. But just know Cerberus as an ideal will always exist, and sooner or later there will be a new Cerberus, even if it is under a different name... Humanity will always have a watchdog.
-Anderson shoots and kills TIM-

This i would be kinda ok with. It does resolve the issue where the developer pretty much tricks you into a game over. Still it would be better if the choise for the ending was a fair and educated CHOISE instead of a Test on how cunning the player is.

For info. I picked the Synthesis ending, It seemed the best way to solve the frankly idiotic nature of the war as presented (that Organics and synthetics must always be at war, or even if that were true that that is a bad thing.)

I don't think a test of the player's wits would be too bad, get you to think for yourself that "Hey, why would control be paragon?" Knock you out of the stupor that some games can induce, more effective than breaking the fourth wall.

[deryita]

We can all spaculate.i want to believe that its just a hallucination. But changing the end with a DLC would be a worst marketing decision i think. Non mass effect fans would not buy it, and they are dissing the game already. I would pay 60 bucks more to see a better ending though!

[noobcannon]

aquaticidioticus wrote...

UKillMeLongTime wrote...

aquaticidioticus wrote...

UKillMeLongTime wrote...

also ya really have to work to get a real crappy ending as it was easy getting over 5k much less 4k

Did you play MP because I found it difficult to get it to 4,000 - I'm currently at 3,800 (something or other) and don't want to touch MP with a ten foot pole.  Bleh.

Edit: meaning EMS after the 50% hit - my total is 6,000 (blah-di-blah more numbers). 

hum i was at 6200 and i kinda did most everything so mp is needed but not much
i forgot that its .50 so hum.....

Well blargh on that.  I thought they said MP wasn't required to get the "best" ending - when it clearly almost is.  I guess it's time to jump into the fray for a few hours; even though I was planning on avoiding MP at all costs.  Not my thing, man.

Edit: and I just realized that there were 2 quests that pooped out on me during gameplay or were glitched.  The Hanar Diplomat with Kasumi and that STG or whatever Salarian dude and Miranda's quest right before her last one - if there is one anyhow.  Both interactions never updated so I wasn't able to complete them.  Not sure if those give you war assets though.  

i don't think it is. if you start a brand new game without an import from me2 and play no multiplayer, it might be tough, but i think you can still do it. the grey bar at the end of your regular WA bar fills in the more MP you play. so if you do every single side mission you might still have enough. not sure though.

[Lugaidster]

su66otnik wrote...

• Denial — "This can't be the real ending. It must have been a hallucination."
  
  
• Anger — "Why is this ending so bad? Couldn't they have made a better one?"
  
  
• Bargaining — "Just give me an alternate ending DLC, BioWare. Please. I'll pay anything."
  
  
• Depression
  — "Why even bother? This was the worst ending I've ever seen to a videogame series. It makes me sad."
  
  
• Acceptance — "So the ending was bad. At least the rest of the game was good. I'll just stop before the ending when I replay it and craft my own headcanon for the end. There are other good sci-fi games out there too."

 
To this I say:

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Martukis wrote...

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Picture it. After seeing the so-called ending, from going into the Citadel to watching the Normandy escape, Shepard wakes up for real. He gets up and moves forward as before, except this time, he and Anderson succeed. They slump down together and have their cool friendship talk with one another, and then they watch as the crucible activates and the tide of the battle turns.

"We did it, Shepard..."

Who between the two of them lives or dies depends on how you played, of course, but the important thing is this.

After all of the planets have been ravaged and billions of lives across every intelligent species has been lost, our heroes finally prevailed, and the galaxy is saved.

Cut to various things, like reuniting with your love interest, Admiral Hackett getting a medal or something.  Moving to Rannoch to live with Tali, taking a vacation with Garrus, sharing a beer with Wrex, or whatever.

 Or maybe studying seashells on the sea shore in place of a certain scientist salarian?

Yeah.  Poor guy.

[blooregard]

Martukis wrote...

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Picture it. After seeing the so-called ending, from going into the Citadel to watching the Normandy escape, Shepard wakes up for real. He gets up and moves forward as before, except this time, he and Anderson succeed. They slump down together and have their cool friendship talk with one another, and then they watch as the crucible activates and the tide of the battle turns.

"We did it, Shepard..."

Who between the two of them lives or dies depends on how you played, of course, but the important thing is this.

After all of the planets have been ravaged and billions of lives across every intelligent species has been lost, our heroes finally prevailed, and the galaxy is saved.

Cut to various things, like reuniting with your love interest, Admiral Hackett getting a medal or something.  Moving to Rannoch to live with Tali, taking a vacation with Garrus, sharing a beer with Wrex, or whatever.

 Or maybe studying seashells on the sea shore in place of a certain scientist salarian?

most depressing moment in the whole game was mordin singing scientist salarian while exploding

[Sheparded]

I noticed that in the end sequence (after being shot by harbinger) your surgical scaring appeared again, even though i had it fixed in me2. Anyone know what this could signify?

[noobcannon]

deryita wrote...

We can all spaculate.i want to believe that its just a hallucination. But changing the end with a DLC would be a worst marketing decision i think. Non mass effect fans would not buy it, and they are dissing the game already. I would pay 60 bucks more to see a better ending though!

the idea is it would be free. they could be doing it as an anti-piracy stunt, or even to create the illusion of indoctrination on all of us. or maybe both.

but you're right, if they charge for it, that would be pretty disgusting. if it was anyone other than EA, i don't think i'd second guess it being free.

Modifié par noobcannon, 12 mars 2012 - 07:52 .

[Auresta]

Outlaw704 wrote...

Mr.Snithums wrote...

TamiBx wrote...

*snip*

[Insert Shepard Husk-looking pictures here]

Honestly, when the spoiler about the ending came out (before the game came out) on 4chan and I read that you could become a reaper or control it, I thought "wtf are they talking about?! We have to kill them no matter what! Wouldn't that mean that the reapers won? :blink:" 

Guess...we get to pick if we wanna become a husk  

Do remember that because of the events of Mass Effect 2, Shepard had to be largely rebuilt from scratch. So these pictures could appear to be revealing Shepard being turned into a husk, or it could also simply be the synthetic skin atop his/her body disintegrating. While they kept most of his/her basic structure I do believe much of the body had to be artificially reconstructed using synthetic parts. While I don't know if this would extend to the entire muscle system of the human body, I'd be more suprised by anything remaining intact following an atmospheric reentry in nothing but military-grade combat armor. We know that core components of the body did survive including the brain and heart so its not easy to say.

Sorry, I'm new to the topic and I don't mean to dash any hopes, just trying to keep things in perspective.

True, but one thing you are forgetting is that if you are full renegade Sheps eyes turn red.. and his scarring is always red... Never is the glowing showed to be huskified blue..

So you are saying that as renegade your eyes turn red in that scene? I haven't seen any youtube videos of that yet (we love paragon!) so if you had one it'd be nice to share and see!

[TheNexus]

deleted for double post

Modifié par TheNexus, 12 mars 2012 - 07:55 .

[Dilandau3000]

Lugaidster wrote...

I'm ok with 90% of what you said. The part that is entirely subjective and actually bothers me is this: "But don't go looking for evidence where there is none". Why are you or any of the other posters more informed as to dismiss anything we read into the game as just "delusion"?

I'm not more informed than you. But some of the things presented here aren't evidence either way. They could be part of the plan, or they could be completely random. There's no way to say for sure, so I think pointing at things like that and going "see, it must be true" is just not warranted, especially when you can easily come up with an equally plausible alternate explanation. You just can't say either way.

[TheNexus]

[quote]

Not saying I 100% believe this theory.

But I don't think Shepard really dies there, it's just..apart of the game sequence. I mean, you need to complete that sequence in the game. Not sure if that really makes sense.

Bascially, I don't necessarily think your character dies there. It's just that, you failed the sequence and you need to reload. 

[/quote]

I'd like to believe that, but I can't think of any evidence to support it from previous parts of the game or ME1 and ME2.

The closest thing I can think of that Shepard's slow stumble to the beam of light resembles is Joker's walk to the bottom of the Normandy when the Collectors invade it in ME2. There, if you don't move, you die...because it's actually happening.

Now compare that to an ACTUAL known dream sequence in ME3: Shepard slowly chasing the child through the forest. There (I actually haven't tried this, but I'm assuming) if your character doesn't move, you won't die...yet there is a percievable threat with the red eye beam from the Reaper...but there is no danger for your character because it isn't real (and thus, you cannot die).

Now keeping with the hallucination theory, since Shepard can die before reaching the beam of light by the husks or the guard right before the beam, we would have to move the dream sequence up to when he enters the Citadel. I actually don't know if TIM can kill you here... he could not in my playthrough. If he can, then we would have to move the dream sequence up to when Shepard is actually at the Crucible. Even if he did pass out in front of the terminal after opening the gates, Hackett clearly says the Crucible isn't working. There are, of course, a lot of unknowns. We have no idea how the forces are doing against the Reapers outside (although we can assume with all the hype of the Crucible that they probably aren't winning), but if Shepard is unconscious in the Citadel, and the Alliance is losing the space war against the Reapers... I just don't see any way Shepard could get out alive.

I really wish this hallucination thing were true... we just need a solid argument for it.

[/quote]

Modifié par TheNexus, 12 mars 2012 - 07:53 .

[Giskler]

I'm going to choose to believe it was indoctrination/hallucination even if Bioware comes out and says theres not going to be any new endings.

This makes me able to play through the game again, in fact I'm eager to do it again because I want to fix some mistakes I made during the first playthrough.

[blooregard]

TheNexus wrote...



Not saying I 100% believe this theory.

But I don't think Shepard really dies there, it's just..apart of the game sequence. I mean, you need to complete that sequence in the game. Not sure if that really makes sense.

Bascially, I don't necessarily think your character dies there. It's just that, you failed the sequence and you need to reload. 



I'd like to believe that, but I can't think of any evidence to support it from previous parts of the game in ME1 and ME2.

The closest thing I can think of that Shepard's slow stumble to the beam of light resembles is Joker's walk to the bottom of the Normandy when the Collectors invade it in ME2. There, if you don't move, you die...because it's actually happening.

Now compare that to an ACTUAL known dream sequence in ME3: Shepard slowly chasing the child through the forest. There (I actually haven't tried this, but I'm assuming) if your character doesn't move, you won't die...yet there is a percievable threat with the red eye beam from the Reaper...but there is no danger for your character because it isn't real (and thus, you cannot die).

Now keeping with the hallucination theory, since Shepard can die before reaching the beam of light by the husks or the guard right before the beam, we would have to move the dream sequence up to when he enters the Citadel. I actually don't know if TIM can kill you here... he could not in my playthrough. If he can, then we would have to move the dream sequence up to when Shepard is actually at the Crucible. Even if he did pass out in front of the terminal after opening the gates, Hackett clearly says the Crucible isn't working. There are, of course, a lot of unknowns. We have no idea how the forces are doing against the Reapers outside (although we can assume with all the hype of the Crucible that they probably aren't winning), but if Shepard is unconscious in the Citadel, and the Alliance is losing the space war against the Reapers... I just don't see any way Shepard could get out alive.

I really wish this hallucination thing were true... we just need a solid argument for it.

we have a solid argument for it...we need a dev to say you guys are genius or how'd you guess

Modifié par blooregard, 12 mars 2012 - 07:55 .

[noobcannon]

have you read any of the this 150+ pages on this thread?

Modifié par noobcannon, 12 mars 2012 - 07:55 .

[MGakaMoogie]

Sheparded wrote...

I noticed that in the end sequence (after being shot by harbinger) your surgical scaring appeared again, even though i had it fixed in me2. Anyone know what this could signify?

This guy has a point I'd like to hear more opinions on that as well

[noobcannon]

Modifié par noobcannon, 12 mars 2012 - 07:56 .

[krystalevenstar]

We have 151 pages of solid argument XD
Whether you've read them all or not is on you,

[xDarkspace]

doesent chakwas replace your face implants like half-way through mass effect 3?

[noobcannon]

krystalevenstar wrote...

We have 151 pages of solid argument XD
Whether you've read them all or not is on you,

i know, lol. i swear some people post without reading anything on the thread. all they have to do is read maybe 3 or 4 posts and theres all kinda of evidence.

[Dilandau3000]

krystalevenstar wrote...

We have 151 pages of solid argument XD
Whether you've read them all or not is on you,

What you have is circumstancial evidence that can be interpreted to support your theory. Some of it is very compelling, but it would hardly hold up in court.

In the words of Spock: "We have no proof. All we have is a theory that happens to fit the facts."

Modifié par Dilandau3000, 12 mars 2012 - 07:58 .

[Lugaidster]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

You just can't say either way.

Exactly! Since you can make an argument for the evidence either way nobody goes around saying "that sh1*'s just wrong" because you can't make a case either way. It's been said time and again that what's presented here is our interpretation, and without further information, it's as plausible as anything out there barring new information. That's why everyone is tossing things to the thread, hoping anyone can conclusively discard it or conclusively approve it.