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[RorickHuon]

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Nice reference to KOTOR.  I should point out that that is another Bioware game, for those very, VERY few who don't know.

Blasphemy! Kidding. But, to be fair, Revan was a Dark Lord of the Sith, turning him would have been incredibly advantageous.

Heh, it WAS incredibly advantagous.   And when Malak managed to turn Bastila, that certainly didn't do any wonders for moral.

I dont know man, when evil Bastila was all 'Lets be evil lovers and rule the galaxy together', that certainly raised my morale, if you know what I mean.

:innocent:

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this ^^;

[byne]

RorickHuon wrote...

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Nice reference to KOTOR.  I should point out that that is another Bioware game, for those very, VERY few who don't know.

Blasphemy! Kidding. But, to be fair, Revan was a Dark Lord of the Sith, turning him would have been incredibly advantageous.

Heh, it WAS incredibly advantagous.   And when Malak managed to turn Bastila, that certainly didn't do any wonders for moral.

I dont know man, when evil Bastila was all 'Lets be evil lovers and rule the galaxy together', that certainly raised my morale, if you know what I mean.

:innocent:

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this ^^;

If theres a dirty thought to be had, you can bet I'm having it.

[Dwailing]

RorickHuon wrote...

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Nice reference to KOTOR.  I should point out that that is another Bioware game, for those very, VERY few who don't know.

Blasphemy! Kidding. But, to be fair, Revan was a Dark Lord of the Sith, turning him would have been incredibly advantageous.

Heh, it WAS incredibly advantagous.   And when Malak managed to turn Bastila, that certainly didn't do any wonders for moral.

I dont know man, when evil Bastila was all 'Lets be evil lovers and rule the galaxy together', that certainly raised my morale, if you know what I mean.

:innocent:

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this ^^;

NOOOOOOOO, Dark Siders!  Away!  Away!  jk, jk

I was a light sider in KOTOR.  I could never take that option.  Although, it WAS nice when I was able to turn her back to the light side... on my second playthrough.  I can never forgive myself for my first playthrough where I had to kill her.

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

RorickHuon wrote...

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Nice reference to KOTOR.  I should point out that that is another Bioware game, for those very, VERY few who don't know.

Blasphemy! Kidding. But, to be fair, Revan was a Dark Lord of the Sith, turning him would have been incredibly advantageous.

Heh, it WAS incredibly advantagous.   And when Malak managed to turn Bastila, that certainly didn't do any wonders for moral.

I dont know man, when evil Bastila was all 'Lets be evil lovers and rule the galaxy together', that certainly raised my morale, if you know what I mean.

:innocent:

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this ^^;

If theres a dirty thought to be had, you can bet I'm having it.

You identify most with Tucker, don't you?  Bow Chikka Bow Wow. 

[n00bsauce2010]

I saw people comparing the breath scene with what is around you before you go up the beam. It definitley does look like a mako. Pretty interesting.

[byne]

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

If theres a dirty thought to be had, you can bet I'm having it.

You identify most with Tucker, don't you?  Bow Chikka Bow Wow. 

Well, Tucker is my favorite character, so yeah.

Also I'm pretty lazy, so I also identify with Grif. He's my second favorite.

[OdanUrr]

byne wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Nice reference to KOTOR.  I should point out that that is another Bioware game, for those very, VERY few who don't know.

Blasphemy! Kidding. But, to be fair, Revan was a Dark Lord of the Sith, turning him would have been incredibly advantageous.

And turning Shepard, who knows all the plans of the allied fleets, and is basically the leader of the entire galaxy at that point, wouldnt be?

There are some differences. First, it is the good guys who turn Revan, and after some debate. Revan is a Dark Lord of the Sith, arguably the single most important villain of the Star Wars universe, and he also knows the location of the Star Forge, which he has used to create a most impressive force (ships, ground troops, etc.). To top it all, he's one of the most powerful Force users the galaxy has ever seen.

Shepard is important, to my eyes, because of what he does, but he's still a soldier at heart. He has some political capital to spend, true, but he's still one man. More often than not, his warnings have been ignored or dismissed. Do I see the advantage of turning him? At another time, maybe. But we're talking about the very end, where the Reapers' fate hangs in the balance. It would have been far easier to indoctrinate him sometime earlier and in a more isolated place. Ultimately, I don't think the Reapers would risk it. If they believe Shepard to be that important, killing him would be a moral blow, if you like, and would remove the immediate threat.

Having said that, it's still possible.

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

If theres a dirty thought to be had, you can bet I'm having it.

You identify most with Tucker, don't you?  Bow Chikka Bow Wow. 

Well, Tucker is my favorite character, so yeah.

Also I'm pretty lazy, so I also identify with Grif. He's my second favorite.

Those two are both great.  I honestly love them all, but I think my absolute FAVORITE character has to be Caboose.  Sarge is also really funny.  Remember when he is talking about Grif's "heroic sacrifice" to stop the Meta when he's really just dangling off the cliff?  Or the time when he used the anatomy of a cow to help patch up Simmons?

[dorktainian]

of course he's indoctrinated, as are we all by this farce.....

[Sovereign Skyguardian]

OdanUrr wrote...

Shepard is important, to my eyes, because of what he does, but he's still a soldier at heart. He has some political capital to spend, true, but he's still one man. More often than not, his warnings have been ignored or dismissed. Do I see the advantage of turning him? At another time, maybe. But we're talking about the very end, where the Reapers' fate hangs in the balance. It would have been far easier to indoctrinate him sometime earlier and in a more isolated place. Ultimately, I don't think the Reapers would risk it. If they believe Shepard to be that important, killing him would be a moral blow, if you like, and would remove the immediate threat.

Having said that, it's still possible.

You remember the Harbinger? He constantly say how important it is to keep Shepard alive.
He wants him corruptet because everyone trusts him.

[DangerousPuddy]

Question for all IT go'ers.

One thing that confuses me is you're saying Shep is Indoc'd even when on Thessia when the thing says "indoctrinated presence detected" to Kai Leng?

[Dwailing]

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Question for all IT go'ers.

One thing that confuses me is you're saying Shep is Indoc'd even when on Thessia when the thing says "indoctrinated presence detected" to Kai Leng?

OK, I've answered this one enough times.  Anyone else want to take it?  Or do you guys want me to?

[OdanUrr]

Sovereign Skyguardian wrote...

You remember the Harbinger? He constantly say how important it is to keep Shepard alive.
He wants him corruptet because everyone trusts him.

Yup, I said that before. There's some conflicting information on how the Reapers view Shepard. And I'm not sure what they wanted with him in ME2. Remember, they wanted him even when he was dead. Creepy.

[Dwailing]

OdanUrr wrote...

Sovereign Skyguardian wrote...

You remember the Harbinger? He constantly say how important it is to keep Shepard alive.
He wants him corruptet because everyone trusts him.

Yup, I said that before. There's some conflicting information on how the Reapers view Shepard. And I'm not sure what they wanted with him in ME2. Remember, they wanted him even when he was dead. Creepy.

There is some speculation that they wanted him so they could use him in the Human Reaper.  

[SS2Dante]

OdanUrr wrote...

byne wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Nice reference to KOTOR.  I should point out that that is another Bioware game, for those very, VERY few who don't know.

Blasphemy! Kidding. But, to be fair, Revan was a Dark Lord of the Sith, turning him would have been incredibly advantageous.

And turning Shepard, who knows all the plans of the allied fleets, and is basically the leader of the entire galaxy at that point, wouldnt be?

There are some differences. First, it is the good guys who turn Revan, and after some debate. Revan is a Dark Lord of the Sith, arguably the single most important villain of the Star Wars universe, and he also knows the location of the Star Forge, which he has used to create a most impressive force (ships, ground troops, etc.). To top it all, he's one of the most powerful Force users the galaxy has ever seen.

Shepard is important, to my eyes, because of what he does, but he's still a soldier at heart. He has some political capital to spend, true, but he's still one man. More often than not, his warnings have been ignored or dismissed. Do I see the advantage of turning him? At another time, maybe. But we're talking about the very end, where the Reapers' fate hangs in the balance. It would have been far easier to indoctrinate him sometime earlier and in a more isolated place. Ultimately, I don't think the Reapers would risk it. If they believe Shepard to be that important, killing him would be a moral blow, if you like, and would remove the immediate threat.

Having said that, it's still possible.

It's true he's a soldier, and he was dismissed previously, but thats just it: they ignored him before, but not in this game. In this game Shepard is basically the second in charge of the human fleets, and realistically Shepard is the leader of the galaxies entire armed forces. I don't think that its a stretch to imagine that if Shepard and Hackett disagreed over something the alliance would split down the middle.

Also, the thing about indoctrination is that it's (mostly) a passive thing. Reapers don't need to try, they give off subconcious waves all the time. They can indeed "push" harder for a faster indoctrination, but the person has to be nearby and even then that ruins their intelligence. (indoctrination theory states that the higher EMS you have, the more of a threat you are, so they push harder, hence synthesis only being a choice with high EMS. This also explains the fact that, with extremely low EMS, the starchilds first words are "why are you here?" instead of "wake up").

(This is entirely me thinking out loud, but...) Also, remember, Harbinger has a personal vendetta against Shepard (in Arrival Shepard is deliberately "kept alive" for something). From a theme prespective, killing Shepard is much less a victory than indoctrinating him. 

[RorickHuon]

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Question for all IT go'ers.

One thing that confuses me is you're saying Shep is Indoc'd even when on Thessia when the thing says "indoctrinated presence detected" to Kai Leng?

If you remember what Javik says their civilzation was betrayed by a splinter group who thought they could control the reapers. That group was indoctrinated. Not to mention they also had reaper sleeper agents. I think it is safe to sa that  the "VI"s are only limited in how the detect reaper control. If they weren't than the Protheans whouldn't have been caught off gaurd.

[byne]

Dwailing wrote...

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Question for all IT go'ers.

One thing that confuses me is you're saying Shep is Indoc'd even when on Thessia when the thing says "indoctrinated presence detected" to Kai Leng?

OK, I've answered this one enough times.  Anyone else want to take it?  Or do you guys want me to?

The prothean VI probably isnt as good at detecting indoctrination as people are giving it credit for.

If protheans could detect indoctrination 100% accurately, they'd never have been betrayed by indoctrinated agents, but its stated multiple times that they were.

Also, Kai Leng was in the temple the whole time, but the VI only detected his indoctrination once he stopped hiding and walked out into the open?

Kai Leng was far more indoctrinated than Shepard would have been at that point, and even had Reaper tech implanted in him, and the VI didnt do a very good job of detecting him, so I doubt it'd be able to detect any indoctrination in Shepard.

Modifié par byne, 17 avril 2012 - 03:18 .

[DangerousPuddy]

Dwailing wrote...

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Question for all IT go'ers.

One thing that confuses me is you're saying Shep is Indoc'd even when on Thessia when the thing says "indoctrinated presence detected" to Kai Leng?

OK, I've answered this one enough times.  Anyone else want to take it?  Or do you guys want me to?

General inquiry, I would like to know or you could link me to your last post.

Thanks!

[OdanUrr]

Dwailing wrote...

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Question for all IT go'ers.

One thing that confuses me is you're saying Shep is Indoc'd even when on Thessia when the thing says "indoctrinated presence detected" to Kai Leng?

OK, I've answered this one enough times.  Anyone else want to take it?  Or do you guys want me to?

Let me. As I understand it, the theory is that Shepard was not indoctrinated by the time he gets to Thessia but rather in the process of being indoctrinated. Thus, the VI cannot detect signs of indoctrination.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 17 avril 2012 - 03:19 .

[SS2Dante]

Dwailing wrote...

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Question for all IT go'ers.

One thing that confuses me is you're saying Shep is Indoc'd even when on Thessia when the thing says "indoctrinated presence detected" to Kai Leng?

OK, I've answered this one enough times.  Anyone else want to take it?  Or do you guys want me to?

How about we both do? After I post this we'll both write our answers. Bet they sync up

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Question for all IT go'ers.

One thing that confuses me is you're saying Shep is Indoc'd even when on Thessia when the thing says "indoctrinated presence detected" to Kai Leng?

OK, I've answered this one enough times.  Anyone else want to take it?  Or do you guys want me to?

The prothean VI probably isnt as good at detecting indoctrination as people are giving it credit for.

If protheans could detect indoctrination 100% accurately, they'd never have been betrayed by indoctrinated agents, but its stated multiple times that they were.

Also, Kai Leng was in the temple the whole time, but the VI only detected his indoctrination once he stopped hiding and walked out into the open?

Kai Leng was far more indoctrinated than Shepard would have been at that point, and even had Reaper tech implanted in him, and the VI didnt do a very good job of detecting him, so I doubt it'd be able to detect any indoctrination in Shepard/

Yeah, this is pretty much what I always say.

[DangerousPuddy]

RorickHuon wrote...

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Question for all IT go'ers.

One thing that confuses me is you're saying Shep is Indoc'd even when on Thessia when the thing says "indoctrinated presence detected" to Kai Leng?

If you remember what Javik says their civilzation was betrayed by a splinter group who thought they could control the reapers. That group was indoctrinated. Not to mention they also had reaper sleeper agents. I think it is safe to sa that  the "VI"s are only limited in how the detect reaper control. If they weren't than the Protheans whouldn't have been caught off gaurd.

Gotcha, but your actions are Shepard there are still your own right. The hallucinations and visions only occur at the beam and during the dreams?

[Dwailing]

SS2Dante wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Question for all IT go'ers.

One thing that confuses me is you're saying Shep is Indoc'd even when on Thessia when the thing says "indoctrinated presence detected" to Kai Leng?

OK, I've answered this one enough times.  Anyone else want to take it?  Or do you guys want me to?

How about we both do? After I post this we'll both write our answers. Bet they sync up

Too late, the question has already been answered.

[SS2Dante]

OdanUrr wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Question for all IT go'ers.

One thing that confuses me is you're saying Shep is Indoc'd even when on Thessia when the thing says "indoctrinated presence detected" to Kai Leng?

OK, I've answered this one enough times.  Anyone else want to take it?  Or do you guys want me to?

Let me. As I understand it, the theory is that Shepard was not indoctrinated by the time he gets to Thessia but rather in the process of being indoctrinated. Thus, the VI cannot detects signs of indoctrination.

Lol, never mind my post above, we have a winner

Yes, you aren't indoctrinated before the ending. Even in the hallucination you are still free. It's only if you choose synthesis or control that you are actually "indoctrinated".

Also, the idea that a VI can detect all levels of indoctrination is definitely false (all of Shepards crew have been around Reapers before a small amount, why doesn't it pick that up?) and the prothean states that they were betrayed by their own people who were indoctrinated. But they had the scanners, so...

EDIT: spelling and clarity

Modifié par SS2Dante, 17 avril 2012 - 03:21 .

[byne]

DangerousPuddy wrote...

RorickHuon wrote...

DangerousPuddy wrote...

Question for all IT go'ers.

One thing that confuses me is you're saying Shep is Indoc'd even when on Thessia when the thing says "indoctrinated presence detected" to Kai Leng?

If you remember what Javik says their civilzation was betrayed by a splinter group who thought they could control the reapers. That group was indoctrinated. Not to mention they also had reaper sleeper agents. I think it is safe to sa that  the "VI"s are only limited in how the detect reaper control. If they weren't than the Protheans whouldn't have been caught off gaurd.

Gotcha, but your actions are Shepard there are still your own right. The hallucinations and visions only occur at the beam and during the dreams?

Yup, pretty much.

Depends on if you believe the child on Earth to be a hallucination though, then some hallucinations also happen on Earth at the very beginning.