57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Lugaidster]

blooregard wrote...

why there was a very human looking 1m1 on the never seen part of the citadel?

That boggles my mind...

[noobcannon]

krystalevenstar wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

noobcannon wrote...

has anyone thought of looking around the normandy for anything suspicious? like maybe reaper tech? i doubt it'd be that easy.

someone said earlier that Allers has a reaper device in her room or something...

I think that was just speculation. It was in reference to the photo of the child that says 'last seen on earth', but I don't think we confirmed if it was on The Citadel memorial wall or her photowall

http://gametrailers....03-Untitled.png 

Modifié par noobcannon, 12 mars 2012 - 08:06 .

[Deltateam Elcor]

krystalevenstar wrote...

That is fair. So far a lot of this thread has been throwing ideas at the wall and seeing what sticks. However, I've noticed since the thread's inception that a lot of people have been convinced by the sheer amount of things that have stuck.

Its the same sort of people that got instantly mad when they finished the game, they expect a clear ending, when there was none and think that the ending they got is all they will get.

A complete failure of comprehension, logic and reasoning.

People are so malleable, which is very apt considering what is being proposed in this theory. 

[blooregard]

noobcannon wrote...

has anyone thought of looking around the normandy for anything suspicious? like maybe reaper tech? i doubt it'd be that easy.

there's a model of soverign and the citadel but I don't think the reapers made those:D...other then that all I can think of is the reaper IFF and EDI's reaper tech (which I think is just programming) so other then those nothing else I can think of

[J1mBlack]

...well. I hate to add to the argument, but did anyone notice. The game tells you "Shepard has defeated the Reapers." Blah blah blah, so on so fourth.

Bioware wouldn't lie to us! Believe the end text! Just a thought.

[TheNexus]

One thing I noticed which has probably already been mentioned. The prompt that comes after the cinematic that comes after the credits says something along the lines of Shepard being a "legend" and that we should await future DLC.

...how can you have non-multiplayer DLC if Shepard is dead? Unless we're going to have "The Adventures of Joker in Strange Jungle World"

[Auresta]

noobcannon wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

noobcannon wrote...

has anyone thought of looking around the normandy for anything suspicious? like maybe reaper tech? i doubt it'd be that easy.

someone said earlier that Allers has a reaper device in her room or something...

I think that was just speculation. It was in reference to the photo of the child that says 'last seen on earth', but I don't think we confirmed if it was on The Citadel memorial wall or her photowall

http://gametrailers....03-Untitled.png 

Allers doesn't have to come onboard, though.

[El Diablo]

Sajuro wrote...

El Diablo wrote...


This i would be kinda ok with. It does resolve the issue where the developer pretty much tricks you into a game over. Still it would be better if the choise for the ending was a fair and educated CHOISE instead of a Test on how cunning the player is.

For info. I picked the Synthesis ending, It seemed the best way to solve the frankly idiotic nature of the war as presented (that Organics and synthetics must always be at war, or even if that were true that that is a bad thing.)

I don't think a test of the player's wits would be too bad, get you to think for yourself that "Hey, why would control be paragon?" Knock you out of the stupor that some games can induce, more effective than breaking the fourth wall.

This would be fine if the game did something similar in earlier parts. As such a test has not been part of the gameplay before this, thus it is kinda like the game suddenly changing the established rules.

and it's not just the blue/red thing. it is also the fact that this is presented as a moral choise, the question presented is"Which of these do you think is best outcome?" and not "Which of these ansers is true?"

[Dessalines]

This is a stretch: I know in the guide it never states that this is the last dream sequence. The dream sequences are number. It just states you have another dream. I mean a lot of times in the guide it states this is the final this or the last that, but it doesn't say that this is the last dream. Like I said it was a stretch.

[Icinix]

leonia42 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

For what it's worth, my Paragade chose all Renegade options in the conversation with TIM at the end and received a critical failure for it. I'm not sure what that indicates, if anything.

Did you do the persuade checks in the other three encounters with TIM?

I honestly can't remember and that's why I don't think this is indicative of anything in particular, I just found it odd that I failed the conversation and had to redo it with paragon choices afterward.

That does seem mightly odd indeed. Maybe its tied into your renegade / paragon score somewhat - so whichever is higher (even by a little) you need to go with?

[TheNexus]

F3Zero wrote...

...well. I hate to add to the argument, but did anyone notice. The game tells you "Shepard has defeated the Reapers." Blah blah blah, so on so fourth.

Bioware wouldn't lie to us! Believe the end text! Just a thought.

Hah you beat me

[krystalevenstar]

I think if there is a reaper device on board then it's the EVA body that EDI takes over. James mentions the humming after that, and if you're going with that as supportive evidence, it makes sense. I think that one is stretching it a bit, though I do think that Shepard is suffering effects of indoctrination long before the laser hits. I also think that every instance after the opening scene of the child playing with the ship, that we're hallucinating the child.

What 10 year old says to an adult "You can't save me." when aliens are invading. I mean, come on.

[Auresta]

TheNexus wrote...

One thing I noticed which has probably already been mentioned. The prompt that comes after the cinematic that comes after the credits says something along the lines of Shepard being a "legend" and that we should await future DLC.

...how can you have non-multiplayer DLC if Shepard is dead? Unless we're going to have "The Adventures of Joker in Strange Jungle World"

You can have DLC before Shepard's final missions.

[humes spork]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

What you have is circumstancial evidence that can be interpreted to support your theory. Some of it is very compelling, but it would hardly hold up in court.

In the words of Spock: "We have no proof. All we have is a theory that happens to fit the facts."

Congratulations, you discovered the problem of induction.

[CC-Tron]

I wish the whole game was a hallucination.

[Dilandau3000]

lavosslayer wrote...

Dilandau3000 wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

We have 151 pages of solid argument XD
Whether you've read them all or not is on you,

What you have is circumstancial evidence that can be interpreted to support your theory. Some of it is very compelling, but it would hardly hold up in court.

In the words of Spock: "We have no proof. All we have is a theory that happens to fit the facts."

How do you know how it would hold up? Maybe not if your the judge but that clearly doesn't mean the evidence isn't solid and based on factual evidence...

In legal parlance proof must be incontrovertible. As long as you can come up with alternate explanations that are equally likely (sloppy writing, rushed to get it out the door, etc.) there's no actual proof. Nothing short of an audio file of Anderson saying "Shepard, you were knocked out by the beam and must've been hallucinating" and Shepard replying "I think Harbinger was testing me" or a statement from the developers would be actual proof.

From a scientific point of view (closer to home because I'm a scientist), what we have here is a hypothesis. A hypothesis must be tested before it can become a theory, and one of the prime requirements there is that it must have predictive utility. From this perspective, nothing short of Bioware admitting we're right (in which case made a prediction based on our hypothesis and it turned out correct) could constitute proof.

[J717]

I'm gonna post this here, but...trying to "cling" onto the Indoctrination theory isn't just an attempt at a more "hopeful" or "good" ending.

It isn't even about generic good or bad endings, or Disney-esque fairytale endings - it's about concluding a series with endings that have absolutely NO CLOSURE whatsoever, and plotholes so huge that you could fit Harbinger and the Destiny Ascension through them.

BioWare gave us 3 "endings" which, when distilled, is really just 1 ending. Either they trolled us for whatever reason and the Indoctrination theory is true and we will see a different, "true" ending....or the ME series is effectively, shamefully defined by the ending of ME3 in which the last 3% of the game turned into complete crap after the first 97% of it was so utterly, deliciously good.

Of my friends, coworkers, acquaintances, etc. that have played ME3 - i have yet to come across a single one of them that was not at all completely outraged by the current state of the endings. This game is THAT powerful....so BioWare is incredibly smart if they have more in store as far as the ending is concerned, or they choked away a possible seat in the "Best Series in the History of Video Games" hall in the last 10 minutes of ME3.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt - and like a lot of people on here, i'm extremely bipolar when it comes to this theory; one minute, i've almost convinced myself that this thread is EXACTLY what BioWare had planned (they actually indoctrinated/trolled us) and that there is no other way, the next, i lose hope and am gut-punched knowing that so far, nothing but this thread is holding together any sort of hope at redeeming the ******-poor ending....

After 150+ pages, you'd think some employee could at least say SOMETHING.

[Deltateam Elcor]

J717 wrote...

I'm gonna post this here, but...trying to "cling" onto the Indoctrination theory isn't just an attempt at a more "hopeful" or "good" ending.

It isn't even about generic good or bad endings, or Disney-esque fairytale endings - it's about concluding a series with endings that have absolutely NO CLOSURE whatsoever, and plotholes so huge that you could fit Harbinger and the Destiny Ascension through them.

BioWare gave us 3 "endings" which, when distilled, is really just 1 ending. Either they trolled us for whatever reason and the Indoctrination theory is true and we will see a different, "true" ending....or the ME series is effectively, shamefully defined by the ending of ME3 in which the last 3% of the game turned into complete crap after the first 97% of it was so utterly, deliciously good.

Of my friends, coworkers, acquaintances, etc. that have played ME3 - i have yet to come across a single one of them that was not at all completely outraged by the current state of the endings. This game is THAT powerful....so BioWare is incredibly smart if they have more in store as far as the ending is concerned, or they choked away a possible seat in the "Best Series in the History of Video Games" hall in the last 10 minutes of ME3.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt - and like a lot of people on here, i'm extremely bipolar when it comes to this theory; one minute, i've almost convinced myself that this thread is EXACTLY what BioWare had planned (they actually indoctrinated/trolled us) and that there is no other way, the next, i lose hope and am gut-punched knowing that so far, nothing but this thread is holding together any sort of hope at redeeming the ******-poor ending....

After 150+ pages, you'd think some employee could at least say SOMETHING.

No cause that may breach an NDA, it is also irrelevant.

In fact if they said anything other than a vague comment, it would ruin it anyway.

Modifié par Deltateam Elcor, 12 mars 2012 - 08:11 .

[Icinix]

TheNexus wrote...

F3Zero wrote...

...well. I hate to add to the argument, but did anyone notice. The game tells you "Shepard has defeated the Reapers." Blah blah blah, so on so fourth.

Bioware wouldn't lie to us! Believe the end text! Just a thought.

Hah you beat me

Unless the indoctrination starts when Shep sits in TIM's chair - and the rubble he is waking up from is in the Cerberus base after Hackett bombs the crap out of it.

[krystalevenstar]

Dessalines wrote...

This is a stretch: I know in the guide it never states that this is the last dream sequence. The dream sequences are number. It just states you have another dream. I mean a lot of times in the guide it states this is the final this or the last that, but it doesn't say that this is the last dream. Like I said it was a stretch.

Why on earth would the guide post it's a dream if Bioware hasn't revealed it yet? <_<

[TheNexus]

CC-Tron wrote...

I wish the whole game was a hallucination.

98% of the game was amazing. The endings weren't.

[Ahro]

I just beat the game a half an hour ago and I have to say, by this theory, I was indoctrinated. >D  OMG!  Seriously, I highly support this theory.  At the end of it all (before I went to reading spoilers) I was actually thrilled because there was so much potential to play with.  There was no way it could be left off here.  We were always told that it would be a trilogy, and now it may just not be.  If it does end up being left here, I will be pissed, but I don't see Bioware doing that to such a piece of art Mass Effect has come to be.

With that, I highly agree with this Hallucination theory (and now need to go back and play to save Shepard so I can transfer my save file to the next game. ;D)  Wondeful work on compiling all of that.  Now I can only hope that it all pans through as true (or to some semblance of).  This series can not end here.  There is too much invested, and for such epic storytelling to just die off like that makes no sense at all.

Here's to Bioware breaking the fourth wall!

[Leonia]

Icinix wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

For what it's worth, my Paragade chose all Renegade options in the conversation with TIM at the end and received a critical failure for it. I'm not sure what that indicates, if anything.

Did you do the persuade checks in the other three encounters with TIM?

I honestly can't remember and that's why I don't think this is indicative of anything in particular, I just found it odd that I failed the conversation and had to redo it with paragon choices afterward.

That does seem mightly odd indeed. Maybe its tied into your renegade / paragon score somewhat - so whichever is higher (even by a little) you need to go with?

I have no idea and I was really confused by how I "died" since it didn't really show TIM shooting Shepard but standing behind Anderson. Just indicates that you CAN die in that conversation somehow.

[CyanidPontifex]

F3Zero wrote...

...well. I hate to add to the argument, but did anyone notice. The game tells you "Shepard has defeated the Reapers." Blah blah blah, so on so fourth.

Bioware wouldn't lie to us! Believe the end text! Just a thought.

Of course they woudn't lie to us.  After all, it's not like they told us that we could get an "amazing, very definitive ending" or anything.

[macroberts]

If this Real-time player indoctrination theory is indeed what the producers were going for......

Holy crap. As if I haven't been tripped out enough already. It would be quite something if it was true. I'd actually applaud it if it was. And I'd have to do another playthrough of all 3 games.

The argument does hold water to a certain extent. But then you're going to have to fit the epilogue old man and the kid scene somehow. Also, surely Bioware would have known that this would be the reaction, and really the only real way to nullify the reaction is through clarification.

And you're really not going to get clarification without the story continuing. And you're not getting that unless you make some announcement. Or DLC. And if you charge money for a ME3.5 then..... more rage. Erp.