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[balance5050]

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...


It's not us against Bioware. It's us against us.

If you argue with someone who picked control, they sound like TIM. Like, they sound EXACTLY like him, but for some reason they never notice it  It's happened to me on several occasions. It's amazing.

Oh dude I know!!! I feel like shep trying to convice the council in ME1!!

It's so weird, I'm always like "Listen to yourself! Your indoctrinated!" but then again they say the same about us sometimes; Indoctrinated by the Indoctrintaiton Theory.

Anyone of you care to maybe back this interesting claim by a survey, say a poll here that let's folks choose between a combination of what ending they chose in their first playthrough and their opinion on IT?

I'd be very interested in the result.

Well, I admit I did Synthesize on my first play, but I was tired so I wasn't "thinking". But I immedatly went back to see the other endings and realized that destroy was the only tangible one. Then I immediatley found this thread and the rest is history.

[n00bsauce2010]

Eli Parker wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Any new arguments going about in the last 2 hours?

Not really. I'm still reeling from this incredibly amusing image of the citadel tower map from ME one. If anything proves Bioware like putting in subtle hints, it's this. And the Conduit.

http://guides.gamepr...-2060212578.jpg 

What is amusing about the map? What about it suggests that its a hint of sorts?

To me it shows the creators of the citadel.

You mean the fact that it is shaped like a reaper?

[Headbutters inc]

Hello. Just hoped this thread could answer some of my Citadel questions.

1. Why did the Crucible pretty much lose most of it's hull attaching itself to the Citadel? What was the need for all that metal and work?!?
2. Does everyone remember that the Citadel is actually a huge relay to dark space for the Reapers? How did they get it to Earth without 200,000 C-sec and the other 13 million beings without them putting up a fight?
3. Who closed the Citadel's arms?
4. Also the fact that it is stated that the original plan for the Citadel is a trap for the heart of the galactic civilisation so that taking out their leaders quickly and efficiently will result in a quick and clean harvest. Why would this blatant trap have plans for it to be a kill switch?
5. Why does every cycle choose the citadel as it's 'heart of the galaxy' and not think..Errr this is not a bit too convenient?
6. If Commander Shepherd was actually in the 'hidden' part of the Citadel then do you think that Bioware would hint at the places where the Prothean scientists could have changed the cycle for the keepers? (long shot I know)

Hope someone has some ideas/answers/madness

IT hypothesis rules

[SS2Dante]

Quickly followed up by this image, which I find hilarious. Maybe I should go to sleep

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzz23fxhqF1qj702ko1_400.jpg 

Modifié par SS2Dante, 18 avril 2012 - 12:13 .

[MaximizedAction]

SS2Dante wrote...

Not really. I'm still reeling from this incredibly amusing image of the citadel tower map from ME one. If anything proves Bioware like putting in subtle hints, it's this. And the Conduit.

http://guides.gamepr...-2060212578.jpg 

Oh, so THAT's why the map had these hallways and doors that were never used...I'll be damned, Bioware's trail of crumbs of ingeniuity seems neverending.

[EpyonX3]

SS2Dante wrote...



Yes, Shepard has, but Shepard writes mission reports like any other captain. There's not a desk drawer in the normandy full of sheets of paper about the reapers.

Anywhere. There are still clearly lots of human colonies left, since ANN is still up, and you freely recieve email from people. You do have wireless communication after all.

But why send a ship with critical information into a battle? All it is then is a burden. Besides, its is stated over and over again that the battle for Earth is the galaxies last stand against the Reapers, the majority of the fleets are all gathered there. Every ship would surely have been told to fight until they died.

Ok I guess I'll have to accept it's unlikeliness. I just don't understand why Bioware got so vague at the end or why they feel they need to keep us in the dark for free dlc.

[SS2Dante]

balance5050 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...


It's not us against Bioware. It's us against us.

If you argue with someone who picked control, they sound like TIM. Like, they sound EXACTLY like him, but for some reason they never notice it  It's happened to me on several occasions. It's amazing.

Oh dude I know!!! I feel like shep trying to convice the council in ME1!!

It's so weird, I'm always like "Listen to yourself! Your indoctrinated!" but then again they say the same about us sometimes; Indoctrinated by the Indoctrintaiton Theory.

Anyone of you care to maybe back this interesting claim by a survey, say a poll here that let's folks choose between a combination of what ending they chose in their first playthrough and their opinion on IT?

I'd be very interested in the result.

Well, I admit I did Synthesize on my first play, but I was tired so I wasn't "thinking". But I immedatly went back to see the other endings and realized that destroy was the only tangible one. Then I immediatley found this thread and the rest is history.

Oh, I did synthesis too. It wasn't until I saw an article for IT an hour later that I stated out loud to myself what synthesis was. Since what came out of my mouth was a description of a Reaper, I burst out laughing

[SS2Dante]

MaximizedAction wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Not really. I'm still reeling from this incredibly amusing image of the citadel tower map from ME one. If anything proves Bioware like putting in subtle hints, it's this. And the Conduit.

http://guides.gamepr...-2060212578.jpg 

Oh, so THAT's why the map had these hallways and doors that were never used...I'll be damned, Bioware's trail of crumbs of ingeniuity seems neverending.

I think...it's upside down in the game, isn't it? Cos you start at the tail...I can't remember. Bet they had a good chuckle about that

Something people forget is that game makers entire lives are spent making clues. Clues on how to walk, how to shoot, where to run, what to do, who to talk to...more so than any other job. They're all about the little things that influence your way of thinking.

[MaximizedAction]

SS2Dante wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Not really. I'm still reeling from this incredibly amusing image of the citadel tower map from ME one. If anything proves Bioware like putting in subtle hints, it's this. And the Conduit.

http://guides.gamepr...-2060212578.jpg 

Oh, so THAT's why the map had these hallways and doors that were never used...I'll be damned, Bioware's trail of crumbs of ingeniuity seems neverending.

I think...it's upside down in the game, isn't it? Cos you start at the tail...I can't remember. Bet they had a good chuckle about that

Something people forget is that game makers entire lives are spent making clues. Clues on how to walk, how to shoot, where to run, what to do, who to talk to...more so than any other job. They're all about the little things that influence your way of thinking.

So maybe ME3 was (or maybe still is) on the verge of becoming 'this generation's' KOTOR - If only not for this aftertaste with all the bad PR? I mean as a prime example of fine clue-seeding.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 18 avril 2012 - 12:23 .

[EpyonX3]

Headbutters inc wrote...

Hello. Just hoped this thread could answer some of my Citadel questions.

1. Why did the Crucible pretty much lose most of it's hull attaching itself to the Citadel? What was the need for all that metal and work?!?
2. Does everyone remember that the Citadel is actually a huge relay to dark space for the Reapers? How did they get it to Earth without 200,000 C-sec and the other 13 million beings without them putting up a fight?
3. Who closed the Citadel's arms?
4. Also the fact that it is stated that the original plan for the Citadel is a trap for the heart of the galactic civilisation so that taking out their leaders quickly and efficiently will result in a quick and clean harvest. Why would this blatant trap have plans for it to be a kill switch?
5. Why does every cycle choose the citadel as it's 'heart of the galaxy' and not think..Errr this is not a bit too convenient?
6. If Commander Shepherd was actually in the 'hidden' part of the Citadel then do you think that Bioware would hint at the places where the Prothean scientists could have changed the cycle for the keepers? (long shot I know)

Hope someone has some ideas/answers/madness

IT hypothesis rules

***Disclaimer: These answeres are what I believe and are in no capacity to be taken as fact.***

1) Shielding in case it cam under fire most likely.

2) Most proably fled during the attack or TIM turned off life support duirng an attack, killing everyon almost instantly.

3) TIM

4) The plans for a kill switch was not from the reapers but from other races from other cycles. They pretty much turn their own tech against them

5) It's just assumed that it was built by a previously adanced society. With no evidence of reapers, the thought of it being a trap wouldn't really cross your mind. It's an uknown that you don't even know exists.

6) That part of the Citadel wasn't really hidden, just innaccessible. The contact points for the crucible and the citadel is where shepard is standing.

[Leto_Galt]

balance5050 wrote...

Leto_Galt wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...

I apologize for being the one to bring this up again (for the hundredth time in this thread) but to me, the biggest plot hole is the "control" the TIM has over Shepard and Anderson in the Citadel. I realize that Joker and Shep's squadmates running away after somehow teleporting to the Normandy is also major plot-hole, but to me, that COULD be explained away by some "convenient" and/or lazy writing.

So, is there any precedent for "body control" in any ME outlet that I am unaware of? AFAIK, no human (even if indoctrinated) has ever been able to control the body of another being.

Therefore, if IT is NOT true, then how will BW possibly explain this part? Saren was obviously indoctrinated, but never showed any ability to control people's motor-skills. So how does TIM suddenly have the ability to make Shepard shoot Anderson, for example?

Sorry, I realize that this is a thread in support of IT, but I think if we TRY to find ways to explain some of the plot-holes without IT, and can't do it, it makes IT more likely to be the only logical alternative. Other than the "all-of-the-sudden-horrible-writing-at-the-end" excuse that some anti-IT'ers are using.

Playing Devils advocate;
I don't think this is one that strengthens IT.

Technically Shepard himself could have that power in a NG+ in ME2 with Morinth's Dominate bonus power.

It would be a pretty easy argument to make that since the Reapers have already assimilated a number of
Ardat-Yakshi. They could have given TIM the Dominate “Bonus power” they gained from reaping the Ardat-Yakshi.

TIM was studying indoctrination though, not ardat yakshi. The reapers don't have the power to "give" TIM any powers outside  of what reaper tech can do.

True Tim was studying indoctrination, and that is the way it appears to be portrayed in that scene to me.

But the Reapers gave the marauders the ability to conjure armor out of thin air, Banshees can teleport and shoot lightning balls at you. Saren ended up as a cricket jumping around and shooting missiles out of his mouth. What Reapers can or can't do to TIM or any of their agents is not an argument anyone can define.

ExtendedCut asked.
“So, is there any precedent for "body control" in any ME outlet that I am unaware of?”
I just answered the question.

I don't actually believe this is what is happening. But if someone wants to explain TIMs power without IT.
The Reaper → Ardat-Yakshi → TIM. Argument is a fairly straight forward one.

Modifié par Leto_Galt, 18 avril 2012 - 12:33 .

[n00bsauce2010]

Leto_Galt wrote...


True Tim was studying indoctrination, and that is the way it appears to be portrayed in that scene to me.

But the Reapers gave the marauders the ability to conjure armor out of thin air, Banshees can teleport and shoot lightning balls at you. Saren ended up as a cricket jumping around and shooting missiles out of his mouth. What Reapers can or can't do to TIM or any of their agents is not an argument anyone can define.

ExtendedCut asked.
“So, is there any precedent for "body control" in any ME outlet that I am unaware of?”
I just answered the question.

I don't actually believe this is what is happening. But if someone wants to explain TIMs power without IT.
The Reaper → Ardat-Yakshi → TIM. Argument is a fairly straight forward one.

I think your argument is fair (bolded statement)... The Ardat-Yakshi/Banshee occurs from genetic rewrite (indoctrination) I havent seen any Banshees,brutes,husks, or any other rewritten species going around controlling anyone.

Wasn't the previous question about TIMS ability to control others?

[Ender Ghost]

What if commander Shepard just never left the Geth consensus?

[EpyonX3]

Ender Ghost wrote...

What if commander Shepard just never left the Geth consensus?

Then everybody dies.

[Golferguy758]

Meh, seeing as you could EVA to that choice area I think people would notice those crazy switches and such =P

[SS2Dante]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Meh, seeing as you could EVA to that choice area I think people would notice those crazy switches and such =P

?

[Leto_Galt]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Wasn't the previous question about TIMS ability to control others?

Yes it was, or actually the question was if there was any precedent in ME for the ability to control others.

I'm just pointing out that if ME2 Shepard could gain the ability to “Dominate” others by simply being friends with an Ardat-Yakshi in ME2. Why can't TIM also somehow have this power as well? Given the connections between the (Reapers/Banshees/TIM).

I actually don't think it matters either way, from my point of view it doesn't weaken IT any.
It just doesn't strengthen it as much as some would like.

Modifié par Leto_Galt, 18 avril 2012 - 01:04 .

[Golferguy758]

SS2Dante wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Meh, seeing as you could EVA to that choice area I think people would notice those crazy switches and such =P

?

The choice area is on the outside of the presidium. There's a nice picture on the first page of where the choices take place. Seriously, you could walk out there in a suit to check it out if peopel were inclined to. If there were these giant pillar things I'm pretty sure someone would have explored that rea and gone "wonder what these things are?"

Modifié par Golferguy758, 18 avril 2012 - 01:06 .

[Golferguy758]

Ender Ghost wrote...

What if commander Shepard just never left the Geth consensus?

image related

[ContraMan]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

What if commander Shepard just never left the Geth consensus?

image related

A Chrono Trigger reference.  AWESOME!

[paxxton]

Golferguy758 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Meh, seeing as you could EVA to that choice area I think people would notice those crazy switches and such =P

?

The choice area is on the outside of the presidium. There's a nice picture on the first page of where the choices take place. Seriously, you could walk out there in a suit to check it out if peopel were inclined to. If there were these giant pillar things I'm pretty sure someone would have explored that rea and gone "wonder what these things are?"

As you can see, the view angle is not perpendicular to the plane containing the beam light and the tip of the Crucible. Hence, you cannot see what is on the opposite side of the Council Tower.

Besides, to generate a beam the Crucible must first warm up and it takes some time (it's physics).

Modifié par paxxton, 18 avril 2012 - 01:28 .

[SS2Dante]

By the way, guys, let's not dignify ShepardTheHopeful's (or whatever his name is) thread by commenting on it. Childish at best.

[Mixon]

I can't understand how we been in open space in the end :-/

[n00bsauce2010]

Mixon wrote...

I can't understand how we been in open space in the end :-/

Neither can we. It's a question we want answered.

[KevShep]

OdanUrr wrote...

KevShep wrote...

I read some of the wall of text and I have this to say about what I read...

About the cut scenes after your choice (such as the normandy crashing)...You cant indoctrinate YOUR shepard without the PLAYER thinking that they are NOT indoctrinated. The crucible maybe a weapon for the reapers to blow up the relays (like in arrival) and they have "tricked" him/her into seeing an illusion of colored explostion when in real life it will kill all systems. This mite explain why the ending"s" are alot different such as, If you rush throuhg the game to get to the end you will have the catalyst say "what are you doing here" as if they are not ready for you and then you see the crucible actually killing the galaxy. This means that the illusions are not ready for shepard(indoctrination).

Second. The biggest peice of evidence is that FACT that you can hear shepards voice wispering in the back ground of the catalyst's OWN voice. Its hard to hear at first but you can mke it out as he talk more and more. Also you need good headphones to hear it!

I think if it were IT, it would make much more sense that the game ended once you make your choice.

I know, I heard it the first time, but you can also hear FemShep. I never thought much about it because, seeing as the Catalyst could take the form of the kid, I didn't put it past him to mimic Shepard's voice.

If he is in his/her head in order to take the image of the kid then that just points to I.T. even more!

BTW, why would it make since to end it like it is if it was the I.T.?