57139 réponses à ce sujet

[OdanUrr]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

IF TIM has the technology to bring Shepard back to his original form.. I'm pretty sure the collectors (reapers) could do the same.. if not at a much faster rate as well as adding a bit of reaper tech to help with the indoc process.

Guess they shouldn't have blown up his ship in the first place. Could have boarded them the same way they later do in ME2.

[balance5050]

OdanUrr wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

IF TIM has the technology to bring Shepard back to his original form.. I'm pretty sure the collectors (reapers) could do the same.. if not at a much faster rate as well as adding a bit of reaper tech to help with the indoc process.

Guess they shouldn't have blown up his ship in the first place. Could have boarded them the same way they later do in ME2.

They were only able to do that because of the reaper IFF

[n00bsauce2010]

OdanUrr wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

IF TIM has the technology to bring Shepard back to his original form.. I'm pretty sure the collectors (reapers) could do the same.. if not at a much faster rate as well as adding a bit of reaper tech to help with the indoc process.

Guess they shouldn't have blown up his ship in the first place. Could have boarded them the same way they later do in ME2.

Good point. I'm assuming killing him and then bringing him back with reaper tech is more efficient then just trying to indoctrinate him the old fashioned way.

[OdanUrr]

balance5050 wrote...

They were only able to do that because of the reaper IFF

They could still have disabled and boarded it, instead they obliterated it.

[KevShep]

OdanUrr wrote...

KevShep wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Are you back to talking about the post-decision cutscenes? If they're trying to fool us into thinking the endings were real.. how would it not be indoctrination?

Again, I ask, under IT, what is the point of the post-decision cutscenes?

If they had not put that in there then people would say that the end is not complete and the illusion has failed and so too has indoctrination. They have to indoctrinate the player as well as Shepard.

What I'm saying is that indoctrinating the player alone is not possible because indoctrination is an ingame device that works within the confines of the ME universe. What you're saying that the cutscenes are there because otherwise the end would not be complete is playing on something completely different and it's the player/spectator mechanic I've mentioned before, which is an out-of-game mechanic.

Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.

[MAXinsanity409]

Unrelated, but wow, is this the longest thread on the entire forums?

[DirtyPhoenix]

EpyonX3 wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

I think he's referring to the little greyed out slideshow. It shows Liara in front of the monitors, Joker tipping his hat, and Anderson smiling. you always get those three regardless of your LI.

I'd also point out that synthesis made Joker's hat synthetic. I laughed so hard at that. It's alive! 

Nope, there are also .bik movies for Ashley and Kaidan.

Yeah I got Ashley when she was my LI. Liara seems to be the default if you don't rmoance anyone.

I romanced Garrus and I got the same Liara/Anderson?Joker slide. dafaq. I'm sensing Anti-Turian sentiments, not cool Bioware.

[n00bsauce2010]

KevShep wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

KevShep wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Are you back to talking about the post-decision cutscenes? If they're trying to fool us into thinking the endings were real.. how would it not be indoctrination?

Again, I ask, under IT, what is the point of the post-decision cutscenes?

If they had not put that in there then people would say that the end is not complete and the illusion has failed and so too has indoctrination. They have to indoctrinate the player as well as Shepard.

What I'm saying is that indoctrinating the player alone is not possible because indoctrination is an ingame device that works within the confines of the ME universe. What you're saying that the cutscenes are there because otherwise the end would not be complete is playing on something completely different and it's the player/spectator mechanic I've mentioned before, which is an out-of-game mechanic.

Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.

He/she is understanding.... He/she is just trying to find holes in the theory.

[n00bsauce2010]

MAXinsanity409 wrote...

Unrelated, but wow, is this the longest thread on the entire forums?

One of the largest I believe. I think theres one over 2500 pages. The one with general complaints about the ending

[Rifneno]

MAXinsanity409 wrote...

Unrelated, but wow, is this the longest thread on the entire forums?

No.  There's a thread where everyone talks about how much Udina sucks.  It's 9 petabytes.

[OdanUrr]

KevShep wrote...

Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.

That's a bit dumb, isn't it? So, assuming IT is correct, they plant clues that hint at IT, then include all these post-decision cutscenes to make you believe it's not IT, so that they can ultimately reveal to you that it was IT?

[KevShep]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

IF TIM has the technology to bring Shepard back to his original form.. I'm pretty sure the collectors (reapers) could do the same.. if not at a much faster rate as well as adding a bit of reaper tech to help with the indoc process.

Guess they shouldn't have blown up his ship in the first place. Could have boarded them the same way they later do in ME2.

Good point. I'm assuming killing him and then bringing him back with reaper tech is more efficient then just trying to indoctrinate him the old fashioned way.

Ive always thought that TIM was willingly working for the reapers(and I still do). He is always one step ahead of EVERYBODY and the only way he can do that is if he is playing both sides. No one gets that powerfull that fast without a little help. We also dont know why the reapers are interested in humans and Iam willing to bet that TIM knows the answer to that one.

[BatmanTurian]

KevShep wrote...
Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.

I don't understand why other people don't comprehend that the ending is a long con by Bioware on the player.

[n00bsauce2010]

OdanUrr wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.

That's a bit dumb, isn't it? So, assuming IT is correct, they plant clues that hint at IT, then include all these post-decision cutscenes to make you believe it's not IT, so that they can ultimately reveal to you that it was IT?

When you put it like that it does seem senseless.. but it is much more complex.

We only have one canon opinion about the endings from developers: It was meant to be interpreted in different ways.

Indoctrination Theory is a valid interpretation. And since Bioware has yet to confirm/deny the theory... it is still valid. Will they ever confirm or deny it? Idn.

They've also stated about the extended cut dlc.. that it will still leave room for interpretation... so if that is true.. that means they will never confirm/deny it and will leave it up to the player to decide.

[OdanUrr]

BatmanTurian wrote...

KevShep wrote...
Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.

I don't understand why other people don't comprehend that the ending is a long con by Bioware on the player.

Even if it were, there isn't any real merit to it. Bioware would have been able to con us in the last ten minutes of the franchise due to the fact it never deceived us in the previous 12,000 minutes (rough estimate) and thus we didn't expect to be deceived. How's that clever?

Modifié par OdanUrr, 18 avril 2012 - 04:04 .

[KevShep]

OdanUrr wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.

That's a bit dumb, isn't it? So, assuming IT is correct, they plant clues that hint at IT, then include all these post-decision cutscenes to make you believe it's not IT, so that they can ultimately reveal to you that it was IT?

Your not seeing it?

Bioware says (before games release) that they want "speculations from everyone"........WHY?

Bioware also wanted it to be the most epic and most emotional end in gaming history, and so far it is far from it. They have told us that if we knew what they were planning that we would hold on to our ME3 forever. Why also do you think that they keep on supporting this "artistic integrity" ploy that they keep holding on to???????????

And Last...There is clear evidence that he/she is dreaming in alot of the game and all the evidence around the catalyst(kid).

[BatmanTurian]

OdanUrr wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

KevShep wrote...
Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.

I don't understand why other people don't comprehend that the ending is a long con by Bioware on the player.

Even if it were, there isn't any real merit to it. Bioware would have been able to con us in the last ten minutes of the franchise due to the fact it never deceived us in the previous 12,000 minutes (rough estimate) and thus we didn't expect to be deceived. How's that clever?

It's clever because of  Bioware taking advantage of the players naivety. The player doesn't expect to be tricked because most of the series has been straightforward, as you just said. That takes effort, tricking the player, and it isn't something that is done easily, but since this was a role-playing game, it had to be done for the supposedly ramped-up indoctrination process to work. You are Shepherd and make Shepherd's decisions for him/her. For it to work, you had to be tricked.  Sometimes it seems like people just don't want it to be true because they are too prideful to admit they were tricked, and just as an anti-IT person would say we are in denial as a defense mechanism, it could easiy be said that Anti-I.T. people are in denial as well. It hurts to admit that you may have messed up (assuming I.T. is true. I'm going to wait for confirmation from Bioware before I believe it's true.).

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 18 avril 2012 - 04:14 .

[Rifneno]

OdanUrr wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.

That's a bit dumb, isn't it? So, assuming IT is correct, they plant clues that hint at IT, then include all these post-decision cutscenes to make you believe it's not IT, so that they can ultimately reveal to you that it was IT?

Not as dumb as seeing a dozen symptoms of indoctrination and taking the one or two that are common to PTSD as well and then declaring it PTSD.

[OdanUrr]

BatmanTurian wrote...

It's clever because of the Bioware taking advantage of the players naivety. The player doesn't expect to be tricked because most of the series has been straightforward, as you just said. That takes effort, tricking the player, and it isn't something that is done easily, but since this was a role-playing game, it had to be done for the supposedly ramped-up indoctrination process to work. You are Shepherd and make Shepherd's decisions for him/her. For it to work, you had to be tricked.

Where does that leave newcomers, I wonder?

[paxxton]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Extended Cut DLC just clarifies the current ending a bit. I don't think it will actually allow the player to defeat the Reapers (assuming the IT interpretation). The current ending is the end of ME3. Perhaps the continuation will be ME4.

[KevShep]

OdanUrr wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.

That's a bit dumb, isn't it? So, assuming IT is correct, they plant clues that hint at IT, then include all these post-decision cutscenes to make you believe it's not IT, so that they can ultimately reveal to you that it was IT?

If they never intended to make an "ending DLC" then they were NEVER going to tell us why the catalyst looks like the kid in his/her dreams and how (if any) it was related to his/her dreams.  All in all there is just too much stuff/plot holes to know that Bioware did it on purpose! The question is why? They have answered that already....Biggest ending in history!

Modifié par KevShep, 18 avril 2012 - 04:18 .

[n00bsauce2010]

OdanUrr wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It's clever because of the Bioware taking advantage of the players naivety. The player doesn't expect to be tricked because most of the series has been straightforward, as you just said. That takes effort, tricking the player, and it isn't something that is done easily, but since this was a role-playing game, it had to be done for the supposedly ramped-up indoctrination process to work. You are Shepherd and make Shepherd's decisions for him/her. For it to work, you had to be tricked.

Where does that leave newcomers, I wonder?

The same as everyone who played the other two entries.

[balance5050]

OdanUrr wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

KevShep wrote...
Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.

I don't understand why other people don't comprehend that the ending is a long con by Bioware on the player.

Even if it were, there isn't any real merit to it. Bioware would have been able to con us in the last ten minutes of the franchise due to the fact it never deceived us in the previous 12,000 minutes (rough estimate) and thus we didn't expect to be deceived. How's that clever?

Think about it like this, every clue is a point of data, a "dot" if you will. The more clues you have the more dots there are. The more dots there are the more they connect, the more connections you see the clearer the picture gets. The clearer the picture get the more of a "EUREKA" you have. Finding out that you have been being worked on by the reapers for the whole is pretty rad imo.

It may not have been received well, but if IT is true then atleast Bioware did something somewhat outside the box, even if it wasjust to sell DLC.

Modifié par balance5050, 18 avril 2012 - 04:17 .

[BatmanTurian]

OdanUrr wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It's clever because of the Bioware taking advantage of the players naivety. The player doesn't expect to be tricked because most of the series has been straightforward, as you just said. That takes effort, tricking the player, and it isn't something that is done easily, but since this was a role-playing game, it had to be done for the supposedly ramped-up indoctrination process to work. You are Shepherd and make Shepherd's decisions for him/her. For it to work, you had to be tricked.

Where does that leave newcomers, I wonder?

Well, there is an entire Codex to read.....

[balance5050]

OdanUrr wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It's clever because of the Bioware taking advantage of the players naivety. The player doesn't expect to be tricked because most of the series has been straightforward, as you just said. That takes effort, tricking the player, and it isn't something that is done easily, but since this was a role-playing game, it had to be done for the supposedly ramped-up indoctrination process to work. You are Shepherd and make Shepherd's decisions for him/her. For it to work, you had to be tricked.

Where does that leave newcomers, I wonder?

Noobs are usually the ones who are like "what's the deal with the endings? they weren't THAT bad."