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Rifneno wrote...
2) Yeah, who doesn't hate continuity? I prefer they just make up random crap every game.
Modifié par paxxton, 18 avril 2012 - 04:58 .
paxxton wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
2) Yeah, who doesn't hate continuity? I prefer they just make up random crap every game.
In terms of side quest/journal/dialogue choice design they pretty much did it. Not mentioning a non-scaling UI.
balance5050 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
2) Yeah, who doesn't hate continuity? I prefer they just make up random crap every game.
In terms of side quest/journal/dialogue choice design they pretty much did it. Not mentioning a non-scaling UI.
I wouldnt say it was random, all the missions were fairly well written, and meshed pretty well.
Modifié par paxxton, 18 avril 2012 - 05:05 .
KevShep wrote...
Big Bad wrote...
OdanUrr wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
KevShep wrote...
Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.
I don't understand why other people don't comprehend that the ending is a long con by Bioware on the player.
Even if it were, there isn't any real merit to it. Bioware would have been able to con us in the last ten minutes of the franchise due to the fact it never deceived us in the previous 12,000 minutes (rough estimate) and thus we didn't expect to be deceived. How's that clever?
I agree to some extent. I think based solely on in-game content, IT is a pretty solid explanation for the ending. But once you factor in the real world consequences of IT, things seem somewhat hazier.
I am not sure which of these things I find to be more unlikely:
A) Despite how awesome and well-written the rest of the series (and the rest of ME3!) has been; and despite what Bioware said about the ending prior to the game's release; and despite the fact that the ending is both heartless and devoid of logic, reason or basis in the ME universe's lore, Bioware thought that the ending we got was satisfactory.Bioware is pulling a long con. They are weathering the ****storm they created because they believe (or initially believed before the game was released) that it will ultimately pay off once everything is revealed.
Both of those things seem very unlikely to me. However, given the in-game evidence and the fact that I would really prefer A) to be the more unlikely scenario, I am going with IT until either it is revealed to be false or an acceptable alternative is put forward, though I have no idea what this alternative could possibly be.
The in-game evidence points right at I.T.. The biggest one for me at lest (and there is alot of evidence) is that FACT that shepard is saying the same things that the catalyst is saying in the back ground of the catalyst's own voice ( repeating what he is saying by wispering it). It hard to hear over the catalyst voice but if you use one head hpone at a time you can hear maleshep on the right rea peice and femshep on the left one.
paxxton wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
2) Yeah, who doesn't hate continuity? I prefer they just make up random crap every game.
In terms of side quest/journal/dialogue choice design they pretty much did it. Not mentioning a non-scaling UI.
I wouldnt say it was random, all the missions were fairly well written, and meshed pretty well.
I just meant they've changed it for the worse.
Big Bad wrote...
KevShep wrote...
Big Bad wrote...
OdanUrr wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
KevShep wrote...
Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.
I don't understand why other people don't comprehend that the ending is a long con by Bioware on the player.
Even if it were, there isn't any real merit to it. Bioware would have been able to con us in the last ten minutes of the franchise due to the fact it never deceived us in the previous 12,000 minutes (rough estimate) and thus we didn't expect to be deceived. How's that clever?
I agree to some extent. I think based solely on in-game content, IT is a pretty solid explanation for the ending. But once you factor in the real world consequences of IT, things seem somewhat hazier.
I am not sure which of these things I find to be more unlikely:
A) Despite how awesome and well-written the rest of the series (and the rest of ME3!) has been; and despite what Bioware said about the ending prior to the game's release; and despite the fact that the ending is both heartless and devoid of logic, reason or basis in the ME universe's lore, Bioware thought that the ending we got was satisfactory.
Both of those things seem very unlikely to me. However, given the in-game evidence and the fact that I would really prefer A) to be the more unlikely scenario, I am going with IT until either it is revealed to be false or an acceptable alternative is put forward, though I have no idea what this alternative could possibly be.
The in-game evidence points right at I.T.. The biggest one for me at lest (and there is alot of evidence) is that FACT that shepard is saying the same things that the catalyst is saying in the back ground of the catalyst's own voice ( repeating what he is saying by wispering it). It hard to hear over the catalyst voice but if you use one head hpone at a time you can hear maleshep on the right rea peice and femshep on the left one.
Yeah, I really do think there is strong in-game evidence to support some sort of IT. The real life stuff just baffles me, though. Honestly, I am anxious to know what is really going on - even if it's bad news, at least we would know.
BatmanTurian wrote...
KevShep wrote...
Now your getting to it. There is a reason for there intrest in humans and for some unknown reason in ME3 we only matter to the reapers just like any other race. Sovereign tried to kill off all other races in the galaxy with the rachni. Why would he do this if the reapers needed them to save/harvest?
The answer is that we will find out soon because I dont think that they would want Shepard to know and this is why it is not present in the game....they are tricking him/her...but like you said we will have to wait and see!
My pet theory is that humans are special because we possess all of the qualities of all of the other species in one package. We are destructive bastards like Krogan, intelligent and cunning like Salarians, diplomatic and possessing great ease in forging alliances like the Asari, clever merchants like the Volus, patient like the Elcor, great military tacticians like the Turians, and technically savvy and communal like the Quarians.
We are their worst nightmare, basically. It's why we make the other species crap bricks when they consider our place in the galaxy.
llbountyhunter wrote...
paxxton wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
2) Yeah, who doesn't hate continuity? I prefer they just make up random crap every game.
In terms of side quest/journal/dialogue choice design they pretty much did it. Not mentioning a non-scaling UI.
I wouldnt say it was random, all the missions were fairly well written, and meshed pretty well.
I just meant they've changed it for the worse.
minorities opinion.... at least specify.
Modifié par paxxton, 18 avril 2012 - 05:32 .
Big Bad wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
KevShep wrote...
Now your getting to it. There is a reason for there intrest in humans and for some unknown reason in ME3 we only matter to the reapers just like any other race. Sovereign tried to kill off all other races in the galaxy with the rachni. Why would he do this if the reapers needed them to save/harvest?
The answer is that we will find out soon because I dont think that they would want Shepard to know and this is why it is not present in the game....they are tricking him/her...but like you said we will have to wait and see!
My pet theory is that humans are special because we possess all of the qualities of all of the other species in one package. We are destructive bastards like Krogan, intelligent and cunning like Salarians, diplomatic and possessing great ease in forging alliances like the Asari, clever merchants like the Volus, patient like the Elcor, great military tacticians like the Turians, and technically savvy and communal like the Quarians.
We are their worst nightmare, basically. It's why we make the other species crap bricks when they consider our place in the galaxy.
Wow, that isactually a very insightful way of looking at the ME universe. I had never given it any thought, but after reading your comment I do think you're correct that the different alien species represent different aspects of human nature. Maybe all sci-fi civilizations are like this, simply because it's hard for us to conceive of a modern civilization that is totally alien to us (yes, pun intended!). Either way, it's a very cool thought.
Big Bad wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
KevShep wrote...
Now your getting to it. There is a reason for there intrest in humans and for some unknown reason in ME3 we only matter to the reapers just like any other race. Sovereign tried to kill off all other races in the galaxy with the rachni. Why would he do this if the reapers needed them to save/harvest?
The answer is that we will find out soon because I dont think that they would want Shepard to know and this is why it is not present in the game....they are tricking him/her...but like you said we will have to wait and see!
My pet theory is that humans are special because we possess all of the qualities of all of the other species in one package. We are destructive bastards like Krogan, intelligent and cunning like Salarians, diplomatic and possessing great ease in forging alliances like the Asari, clever merchants like the Volus, patient like the Elcor, great military tacticians like the Turians, and technically savvy and communal like the Quarians.
We are their worst nightmare, basically. It's why we make the other species crap bricks when they consider our place in the galaxy.
Wow, that isactually a very insightful way of looking at the ME universe. I had never given it any thought, but after reading your comment I do think you're correct that the different alien species represent different aspects of human nature. Maybe all sci-fi civilizations are like this, simply because it's hard for us to conceive of a modern civilization that is totally alien to us (yes, pun intended!). Either way, it's a very cool thought.
Modifié par BatmanTurian, 18 avril 2012 - 05:20 .
balance5050 wrote...
OdanUrr wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
OdanUrr wrote...
@balance5050: You're saying Bioware planned this since ME1?
How are you deriving that from what I said?
I'm not deriving, I'm asking because I'm not sure. Hence the smiley.
I think they had it planned since "The arrival"
paxxton wrote...
llbountyhunter wrote...
paxxton wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
2) Yeah, who doesn't hate continuity? I prefer they just make up random crap every game.
In terms of side quest/journal/dialogue choice design they pretty much did it. Not mentioning a non-scaling UI.
I wouldnt say it was random, all the missions were fairly well written, and meshed pretty well.
I just meant they've changed it for the worse.
minorities opinion.... at least specify.
1. The journal is static - in ME2 it was dynamic.
2. Overhearing side quests (no marks on the map).
3. Dialogues are rather flat/linear.
Hawk227 wrote...
3. Other than having fewer neutral dialogue options, I didn't notice much difference. I did like that access to Charm/Intimidate was changed to overall reputation, and you didn't have to go full Paragon/Renegade to make big decisions late. I thought that was a big improvement.
Hawk227 wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
OdanUrr wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
OdanUrr wrote...
@balance5050: You're saying Bioware planned this since ME1?
How are you deriving that from what I said?
I'm not deriving, I'm asking because I'm not sure. Hence the smiley.
I think they had it planned since "The arrival"
+1
I think that they were sketching out where they wanted to go in ME3, and thought "we've indoctrinated all these other characters, what would it be like to indoctrinate shepard? How would that work?"
They Final Hours App pretty much tells us this happened. They realized the straightforward mechanic of the player losing control of Shepard didn't work (fact), and hatched the "Player-Indoctrination" mechanic(speculation).
Arrival was billed as the connection between ME2 and ME3. While it was being made, the rest of the team was working on ME3. In this connecting DLC, Bioware knocked shepard out with Object Rho and then subjected him to 2 days in its presence. That's a pretty strong lead in to IT theory. But if the ending is literal, that whole DLC was basically discarded (shepard never indoctrinated, exploding relays no longer go Supernova). All thats left is a sick batarian in the docks hating on you for blowing up Aratotht.
dreamgazer wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
1) Some peopld did deduce it naturally. And no, I was not one of them. If everyone deduces it naturally, then it's not a plot twist.
I'm one of the people who picked up on probably a third of the clues on some secondary, non-indoctrination level upon my first playthrough. I decided right away that the kid was never there, as soon as he vanished from the vent. The dreams seemed more than recurring nightmares to me; the shadows and voices really added to that, as well as what the kid himself represents in Shep's mind. Shepard's growing agitation in the dialogue that we cannot control was another.
Arian Dynas wrote...
dreamgazer wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
1) Some peopld did deduce it naturally. And no, I was not one of them. If everyone deduces it naturally, then it's not a plot twist.
I'm one of the people who picked up on probably a third of the clues on some secondary, non-indoctrination level upon my first playthrough. I decided right away that the kid was never there, as soon as he vanished from the vent. The dreams seemed more than recurring nightmares to me; the shadows and voices really added to that, as well as what the kid himself represents in Shep's mind. Shepard's growing agitation in the dialogue that we cannot control was another.
You too eh? Playing the DEMO, my first thought concerning the kid was,immediately "He ain't there is he?", now, don't think I'm calling myself paticularly clever, but right away I could tell something wasn't right, it was mostly that the kid just disappeared right in the vent scene, and that there was nothing there inside the vent beforehand.
Thats why I read this thread. Right up until the credits rolled I fully expected Shep to get up from what I thought was obviously a dream. And then, WTF. I had to listen to all of you to put my feeling of complete confusion into some kind of context.Arian Dynas wrote...
dreamgazer wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
1) Some peopld did deduce it naturally. And no, I was not one of them. If everyone deduces it naturally, then it's not a plot twist.
I'm one of the people who picked up on probably a third of the clues on some secondary, non-indoctrination level upon my first playthrough. I decided right away that the kid was never there, as soon as he vanished from the vent. The dreams seemed more than recurring nightmares to me; the shadows and voices really added to that, as well as what the kid himself represents in Shep's mind. Shepard's growing agitation in the dialogue that we cannot control was another.
You too eh? Playing the DEMO, my first thought concerning the kid was,immediately "He ain't there is he?", now, don't think I'm calling myself paticularly clever, but right away I could tell something wasn't right, it was mostly that the kid just disappeared right in the vent scene, and that there was nothing there inside the vent beforehand.
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
I also had nagging feeling of wrongness towards the kid and the dreams made me suspicious mostly because I remembered the Rachni Quens quote about "Oily Shadows" but it was not until the star kid appeared that things truly felt of.
Once he appeared and gave me the choices I stopped and thought of what was presented before me. Control was out of the question from the start, I did not beleive we could control the Reapers. Synthesis I was leaning more towards but ultimately the Geth belief in choosing their own future made me turn away from it and I staggered towards Destroy now confident that somethig was of with the other two though Indoctrination never struck me until I saw this thread.
Spartas Husky wrote...
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
I also had nagging feeling of wrongness towards the kid and the dreams made me suspicious mostly because I remembered the Rachni Quens quote about "Oily Shadows" but it was not until the star kid appeared that things truly felt of.
Once he appeared and gave me the choices I stopped and thought of what was presented before me. Control was out of the question from the start, I did not beleive we could control the Reapers. Synthesis I was leaning more towards but ultimately the Geth belief in choosing their own future made me turn away from it and I staggered towards Destroy now confident that somethig was of with the other two though Indoctrination never struck me until I saw this thread.
I never even thought of indoctrination to be honest. I was completely oblivious to the idea. I only began to question wth the point of it was. PTSD is one thing. but that usually gets worse if you dont talk about it. And without friends to back you up. Shepard isn't that and is the future so, kelly can surely help. So then I was confused as to whether it was bad writting and just another attempt to make soldiers into this overly tough individuals with watery insides or just pushing PTSD too much.
Then I heard James "you hear that hum"... and I was like... wth is wrong with him. It was because of james that it sorta a clicked something in me. but I still didn't connect it. It just made me skeptic of james coz he reminded me of the cerberus guys in the dead reaper.
It was when TIM actually controlled me... that I was like... wait?... how can he control me, I am not indoctrinated... even if I was he couldn't unless I.......
Then I got a flashback... "all of hammer has been decimated pull back"
I got another flashback to harbinger simply leaving... I was like wtf?
Then I met the star child and everything just sorta got forgotten. Then At the end of destroy option. I honestly thought it was a dream but I woke up lets keep playing... then it ended and I was like.........
Is this another Halo 2 screwup?
Modifié par Vahilor, 18 avril 2012 - 07:19 .
Vahilor wrote...
To be honset I was to shocked to think of IDT, when I finished my first playthrough.. I only noticed that with this dreams and the ending there is somthing terril wrong and my first rweaction to the endings was like this ^^
Nooooo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWjDYz2ldN0
balance5050 wrote...
Vahilor wrote...
To be honset I was to shocked to think of IDT, when I finished my first playthrough.. I only noticed that with this dreams and the ending there is somthing terril wrong and my first rweaction to the endings was like this ^^
Nooooo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWjDYz2ldN0
Yeah, at least some sort of half assed prologue would have satiated a LOT of people.
OdanUrr wrote...
KevShep wrote...
Your not understanding...If shepard is being indoctrinated then they (Bioware) need the PLAYER to think that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated so that it does play out that way.
That's a bit dumb, isn't it? So, assuming IT is correct, they plant clues that hint at IT, then include all these post-decision cutscenes to make you believe it's not IT, so that they can ultimately reveal to you that it was IT?
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
Vahilor wrote...
To be honset I was to shocked to think of IDT, when I finished my first playthrough.. I only noticed that with this dreams and the ending there is somthing terril wrong and my first rweaction to the endings was like this ^^
Nooooo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWjDYz2ldN0
Yeah, at least some sort of half assed prologue would have satiated a LOT of people.
I think you mean an epilogue
A proloque is set before the story.
Modifié par Roxy Lalonde, 18 avril 2012 - 07:37 .
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