57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Skillz1986]

@halbert 986

The counterarguments so far are:
-there are reapers outside, hence the growl (completely ignoring the fact, that it sounds different all the way)
-anderson was beamed to another section and got to the console before you, because the place is shifting and changing (completely ignoring the fact that the is only one approach to that console)
-it's not earth, silly (completely ignoring the fact, that it's concrete he's lying in. and appearently also a mako(delldo posted some pictures)
-one soldier takes a look behind himself. anti IT guys say, that he's looking after the kid. (completely ignoring the fact, that he could have just farted and was wondering why it came out so loud)

[BatmanTurian]

SS2Dante wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Hey, the first thing I thought when I heard about IT was "idiot whiney fanboys". So if I didn't know too much and came into this thread I probably wouldn't be too respectful

Okay?  I don't see the point.  You seem to be saying they're shooting their mouths off without bothering to listen to what we're saying.  I still don't see any reason to show respect to people like that.  I mean, granted, I'm a snarky ****** to a lot more people than actually deserve it and I'm sure I still owe some people apologies... but the "lulz u prolly think 9/11 was an inside j0b" crowd is not one of them.

Hate to sound like a priest, but we can't CONVERT THE PEOPLE like that

Nah, don't really mean that, but it still pays to be polite, on the off chance he would have looked up IT and maybe been more convinced. 

TBH it seems like a lot of the naysayers come in with their minds already made up. At least we're open to the possibility of being wrong. We have nothing to lose if we're wrong.

I'm the guy that tweeted you the other day, by the way, about the 4th voice coming from Starchild. Finally called EA and got things worked out with my account.

[SS2Dante]

halbert986 wrote...

If someone could point me in the direction of a good counter-argument for IT I'd appreciate it. Something to the affect of acayvous's IT video but the opposite would be nice.

I've yet to see any evidence that gives a halfway decent reason against any of the following...
- The reaper growl at the beginning when anderson interrupts the kid.
- Anderson being perfectly fine, following you up, and beating you to the console after the hell harbinger unleashed. (No one made it fall back)
- Shepard waking up in a pile of earth rubble.
- Why no one acknowledges the child's existence except for shepard.

I don't think any theory has hit the nail on the head perfectly. But "it was all a dream" is the only way any of this makes any logical sense.

I can give you the arguments I'v heard.

1 - the Reapers are outside the bulding and you do see one pass by during that cutscene. Ambient noise.
2 - someone says Andersons face is bruised, haven't checked. Also, the corridor outside the room you wake up in does have other does all around in a big circle, but to connect to that room one of them would have to rotate.
3 - it's the citadel.
4 - Som people say the kid getting in the shuttle then the guy tapping it to send them off its him seeing the child. And coincidence

Obviously I don't believe these. By the way, it's less "it was all a dream" and more symbolism for the battle in Shepards mind. Most of the stuff we see after the laser is really for the players benefit. 

[Skillz1986]

@ss2 dante..yeah, pretty much what i said

[Rifneno]

So am I the only one that really, REALLY thinks we should get off the religion analogies and commentary before it blows up in one of the many possible ways it can blow up?

[spotlessvoid]

Rifneno wrote...

So am I the only one that really, REALLY thinks we should get off the religion analogies and commentary before it blows up in one of the many possible ways it can blow up?

+1

[SS2Dante]

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Hey, the first thing I thought when I heard about IT was "idiot whiney fanboys". So if I didn't know too much and came into this thread I probably wouldn't be too respectful

Okay?  I don't see the point.  You seem to be saying they're shooting their mouths off without bothering to listen to what we're saying.  I still don't see any reason to show respect to people like that.  I mean, granted, I'm a snarky ****** to a lot more people than actually deserve it and I'm sure I still owe some people apologies... but the "lulz u prolly think 9/11 was an inside j0b" crowd is not one of them.

Hate to sound like a priest, but we can't CONVERT THE PEOPLE like that

Nah, don't really mean that, but it still pays to be polite, on the off chance he would have looked up IT and maybe been more convinced. 

TBH it seems like a lot of the naysayers come in with their minds already made up. At least we're open to the possibility of being wrong. We have nothing to lose if we're wrong.

I'm the guy that tweeted you the other day, by the way, about the 4th voice coming from Starchild. Finally called EA and got things worked out with my account.

They do, but a few listen after the initial skepticism.

Ah cool, nice to see you can participate now

[BatmanTurian]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@halbert 986

-it's not earth, silly (completely ignoring the fact, that it's concrete he's lying in. and appearently also a mako(delldo posted some pictures)

You forgot that this also assumes Shepherd survives the massive explosion at the epicenter without armor or kenetic shields. Even if he survives, he gets blasted out into space onto one of the wards, passing through vaccum without a helmet.

Yes, we're the ones making idiotic speculations. Riiiiight.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 18 avril 2012 - 05:48 .

[SS2Dante]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

So am I the only one that really, REALLY thinks we should get off the religion analogies and commentary before it blows up in one of the many possible ways it can blow up?

+1

Yep. I shall stop.

[Rifneno]

SS2Dante wrote...

halbert986 wrote...

- The reaper growl at the beginning when anderson interrupts the kid.

1 - the Reapers are outside the bulding and you do see one pass by during that cutscene. Ambient noise.

Obviously I don't believe these. By the way, it's less "it was all a dream" and more symbolism for the battle in Shepards mind. Most of the stuff we see after the laser is really for the players benefit. 

(Some snipping to keep post size down)

Actually, it's not ambient noise.  If you have surround sound, you can tell which sounds are coming from outside the building, far in the distance.  Most of the Reaper sounds are like that.  The growl at the Anderson interrupt is basically coming from all channels.  I guess.  All I know is it sounds like it's all around you rather than emanating from outside like other Reaper noises.

[balance5050]

NM

Modifié par balance5050, 18 avril 2012 - 05:50 .

[Drift Avalii]

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

[SS2Dante]

Rifneno wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

halbert986 wrote...

- The reaper growl at the beginning when anderson interrupts the kid.

1 - the Reapers are outside the bulding and you do see one pass by during that cutscene. Ambient noise.

Obviously I don't believe these. By the way, it's less "it was all a dream" and more symbolism for the battle in Shepards mind. Most of the stuff we see after the laser is really for the players benefit. 

(Some snipping to keep post size down)

Actually, it's not ambient noise.  If you have surround sound, you can tell which sounds are coming from outside the building, far in the distance.  Most of the Reaper sounds are like that.  The growl at the Anderson interrupt is basically coming from all channels.  I guess.  All I know is it sounds like it's all around you rather than emanating from outside like other Reaper noises.

I played ME1 in surround sound, such a shame I couldn't play the rest like that

[BatmanTurian]

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

[SS2Dante]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

...I don't know if I have the moral strength for that

Especially since people WILL start claiming that the ending was changed, if IT is right.

[Arian Dynas]

UrgedDuke wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

More speculations inbound:

So I was watching these new vids, that got linked to in the BSN a few hours back: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11500315.
There the guy does a three parter analysing ME3's story on a literary level and it's really worth watching the three vids...but plugging is not the point of this post...

It's this:
at some point in the third vid he talks about the Cerberus base invasion. This part got my spidey-senses up.
What exactly?

After we defeated Kai Leng he suddenly gets up on his last breath to get ya, right?

Here the guy talks about this specific scene
www.youtube.com/watch

And he makes an interesting point about something I completly missed whily playing: Why does no one notice him stumbling towards you? Maybe you guys are willing to watch this bit and help me out with the following piece of speculation:

Was Kai Leng getting up after you defeated him real, or was it just as real as the kid in the vent on earth?

When playing, I got the impression Shep knew he was there with his kung-fu agression radar (trope used a whole whole bunch in Samurai and Kung-Fu movies, where the good guy turns his back on the defeated enemy and senses agression, turns around and unloads whoop **** all over said bad guy) <3

yeah, I saw nothing wrong with that scene, I've seen it a hundred times before in movies. Usually it's done with guns.

Ever wonder why Shepard still kills Kai Leng if you don't use the Renegade interrupt, but you die if you don't use the Renegade interrupt against TIM.... very strange.

It is, has already been, and will continue to be mentioned. The core of every Reaper is the same, and looks like the race that it is derived from, the plating would eventually cover the human form Reaper, making it either identical or similar to the others. (much like Harbinger.)

[balance5050]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

I think, with the EC they are going to just add a bunch more hints that it's indoctrinatation, then a week later theyll reveal the "truth" DLC

[spotlessvoid]

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

I think, with the EC they are going to just add a bunch more hints that it's indoctrinatation, then a week later theyll reveal the "truth" DLC

That could be epic!

[BatmanTurian]

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

...I don't know if I have the moral strength for that

Especially since people WILL start claiming that the ending was changed, if IT is right.

which means they fundamentally don't understand IT because clarifying it doesn't change the ending in any way.

[Arian Dynas]

Orkfaeller wrote...

So many hints. Unlimited ammo and botomless magasines for teh pistol. The trees from dreams, the overall ambiance that just screams "dream".
Not a coincidence for me, just artistic crap from BW ?!

The pistol has unlimited ammo, because you would be in a stupid situation if you ran out of ammo when facing TIM or the destroy ending. Exactly like you had unlimited ammo in the beginning of the game.

You dont have to reload, because Shep is  limping and they would have been forced to do a complete new reloading animation just for that few scenes.

I*d wish that people stop seeing "prooves" and "hints" in recycled models, textures and animations.

Actually, they could have A, done the same thing as at the beginning and given you infinite clips rather than an infinitely firing gun, or simply placed a clip directly in your way approaching TIM, or even simply refilled your gun every other cutscene, making it to where the gun fired UNTIL you forced it to reload required more work on their part.

Also, for the record, They DID have a complete new reloading animation for those scenes, press R and you'll see it. It uses the Predator reload rather than the Carnifex like it should.

[SS2Dante]

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

I think, with the EC they are going to just add a bunch more hints that it's indoctrinatation, then a week later theyll reveal the "truth" DLC

I don't know, either way. They have said that EC wasn't necessariyl always planned, but that statement right there is meaningless, because it could mean it wasn't planned before the leak etc.

I think, in my head, once EC is released, a clock starts, and after maybe a month at the most I'll have to admit IT wasn't planned.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

SS2Dante wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...


You are assuming the Reapers had any choice as to the Destroy option beeing there.

Instead of seeing the Destroy option as a flaw in the Reapers Indoctrination what about turning it around and seeing it as Shepards basic instincts and beliefs. It will always be there until Shepard succumbs fully to indoctrination and the two other options are there to trick him into walking the Reapers path, to give in.

I think you've misunderstood, I'm for IT, and I've previously stated I think the red ending always has to be there because indoctrination is all about choice. The guy I'm aruing with claims he thinks the endings are literal but that they are still trying to indcotrinate into not killing them, hence the red option sounding bad. but if it's a literal scene, the starchild doesn't need to show you the red ending, does he? The literal and IT view makes no sense.

Snipped alot since this was getting long.

Ah okay and I see your point, but I guess showing the end in Destroy is necesity else Indoctrination would be to obvouis. Really this discussion wouldnt have reached page 1500 if choosing destory jumped straight to either credits or breathing scene depending on your War assets, am I right?

[BatmanTurian]

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

I think, with the EC they are going to just add a bunch more hints that it's indoctrinatation, then a week later theyll reveal the "truth" DLC

I personally think they will just kill two birds with one stone and do both. But considering it's Bioware and EA, I could see how your supposition could be true.

[llbountyhunter]

SS2Dante wrote...

The Captainator wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

If they were trying to indoctrinate Shepard then they simply needn't present the destroy option at all.

Also, religion versus science is mutually exclusive. Religion postulates a being outside of universal laws. This means it works by magic. If there were a great, powerful being, but its abilities could be explained by science, then it's not religion, it's science. It's either outside of science, or inside. Mutually exclusive.

Cutting off some long quotes.

Making religion and science mutually exclusive is wrong.  Miracles are simply manifestions of a law we do not understand, which is what the IT is trying to explain.

Alas, attempting to explain how they're not exclusive to someone who believes they are is nigh impossible.  It is a concept that is difficult to grasp.

"Manifestations of a law we don't understand". Therefore there is system of laws. Therefore this being cannot override them. If it could, it would be breaking these laws. Like I said, a being with all the abilities and knowledge we attribute to "God" that DID obey these laws is not a religious God, simply a large entity like us.

Mutually exclusive.

Edit - the fallacy here is that you attribute the properties of 'magic' to laws we don't yet understand. No matter what "miraculous" things they can do, they are basic laws by which the universe operates. If a being could violate these laws then they don't exist.

Like the sandemanian religion, they believe that everything is unified by god, and the way to get closer to him is to study the world. So they use science to understand the creator.

[ExtendedCut]

MaximizedAction wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

I'd also present the fact that people who take the endings literally are pretty much believing in a god that has the power to rewrite dna on a whim. A magic child in the sky that can teleport people, save someone from an explosion kilometers wide.

And you say the it theorists are taking things on faith? What?

^this. I quote this for it's truth!

We do realize that this is a video game we're discussing right?

For me that ship has sailed the day I decided to check out this forum for answers after my first playthrough.
Now I've been checking out BSN more often then memebase and facebook and it pays.
Because now I know about so many clues in the game, they helped me regain my trust in Bioware a little.

Yeah.  Yesterday, I posted that the ending must have been a huge marketing blunder for Bioware.  But if their intention was to stir people into debate and speculation about the ending, and therefore increase attention to their brand - then maybe the ending wasn't as big of a blunder as I first thought.