57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Sammuthegreat]

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

I think, with the EC they are going to just add a bunch more hints that it's indoctrinatation, then a week later theyll reveal the "truth" DLC

Honestly, if they string this out any longer, I think I'll struggle to buy another BioWare game in the future. And I LOVE BioWare games.

[BatmanTurian]

llbountyhunter wrote...

"Manifestations of a law we don't understand". Therefore there is system of laws. Therefore this being cannot override them. If it could, it would be breaking these laws. Like I said, a being with all the abilities and knowledge we attribute to "God" that DID obey these laws is not a religious God, simply a large entity like us.

Mutually exclusive.

Edit - the fallacy here is that you attribute the properties of 'magic' to laws we don't yet understand. No matter what "miraculous" things they can do, they are basic laws by which the universe operates. If a being could violate these laws then they don't exist.

Like the sandemanian religion, they believe that everything is unified by god, and the way to get closer to him is to study the world. So they use science to understand the creator.

Actually, those are Deists.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 18 avril 2012 - 06:16 .

[IronSabbath88]

I don't believe they'll string this out any longer. They pretty much confirmed that EC will be closure and epilogues. That spells the end to me.

That said, they can use IT, show everyone what REALLY happened and then finish off the game from there.

[SS2Dante]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...


You are assuming the Reapers had any choice as to the Destroy option beeing there.

Instead of seeing the Destroy option as a flaw in the Reapers Indoctrination what about turning it around and seeing it as Shepards basic instincts and beliefs. It will always be there until Shepard succumbs fully to indoctrination and the two other options are there to trick him into walking the Reapers path, to give in.

I think you've misunderstood, I'm for IT, and I've previously stated I think the red ending always has to be there because indoctrination is all about choice. The guy I'm aruing with claims he thinks the endings are literal but that they are still trying to indcotrinate into not killing them, hence the red option sounding bad. but if it's a literal scene, the starchild doesn't need to show you the red ending, does he? The literal and IT view makes no sense.

Snipped alot since this was getting long.

Ah okay and I see your point, but I guess showing the end in Destroy is necesity else Indoctrination would be to obvouis. Really this discussion wouldnt have reached page 1500 if choosing destory jumped straight to either credits or breathing scene depending on your War assets, am I right?

Yep. And yeah, but remember this is a symbolic scene, Harbinger is not deliberately placing the choices there, it's symbolic and created by your Shepard as a visual representation of the indoctrination process. Harbinger doesn't choose to put the red ending there to make it less obvious, it's a choice that Shepard knows they have, so it's there. hence with low EMS and keeping the collector base the only choice you have is control, since you've already begun to fall so it's the "only" choice you think is left.

Modifié par SS2Dante, 18 avril 2012 - 06:18 .

[llbountyhunter]

OK so the IT disbelievers try to disprove the unlimited ammo gun and, BOOM. IT is false? Why don't they disprove any of the bigger evidence like.

Shepard wakes on earth.
The fact that TIM can control Anderson+ Shepard (or why not just make them kill each other? )

Oh wait. You have, with the infamous "Bioware is lazy" line..

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 18 avril 2012 - 06:21 .

[ExtendedCut]

halbert986 wrote...

If someone could point me in the direction of a good counter-argument for IT I'd appreciate it. Something to the affect of acayvous's IT video but the opposite would be nice.

I've yet to see any evidence that gives a halfway decent reason against any of the following...
- The reaper growl at the beginning when anderson interrupts the kid.
- Anderson being perfectly fine, following you up, and beating you to the console after the hell harbinger unleashed. (No one made it fall back)
- Shepard waking up in a pile of earth rubble.
- Why no one acknowledges the child's existence except for shepard.

I don't think any theory has hit the nail on the head perfectly. But "it was all a dream" is the only way any of this makes any logical sense.

Don't forget TIM's weird "body control" thing over Shepard and Anderson, that no one had ever done up to that point in the trilogy.

[SS2Dante]

BatmanTurian wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

I think, with the EC they are going to just add a bunch more hints that it's indoctrinatation, then a week later theyll reveal the "truth" DLC

I personally think they will just kill two birds with one stone and do both. But considering it's Bioware and EA, I could see how your supposition could be true.

Yeah, I have a hard time seeing why they would make the EC just to knock it on it's ass with IT just after. Whats the point in extending symbolic dream scenes that will soon become useless? Unless it's so that people who didn't choose red can think they've won and be happy about it  

More likely they've just announced it to keep the fans happy that "something" is being done about the ending.

But who knows, who knows.

[IronSabbath88]

llbountyhunter wrote...

OK so the IT disbelievers try to disprove the unlimited ammo gun and, BOOM. IT is false? Why don't they disprove any of the bigger evidence like.

Shepard wakes on earth.
TIM can control Anderson+ Shepard (or why not just make them kill each other? )

Oh wait. You have, with the infamous "Bioware is lazy" line..

Nah, they've tried both of those.

First, apparently Shepard wakes up on the Citadel because those pole like things we're seeing (*cough* rebar *cough*) is actually the CABLES on the Citadel! Don't ask me HOW he survived an explosion of that nature, don't ask me how the Citadel is suddenly made of concrete. Let's not forget that if that was somehow the Citadel and it blew up bad enough to have pieces all over the place, yeah, Shepard could totally survive that.

The second one regarding TIM controlling is his experiments on Horizon... which focused on controlling the Reaper ground forces like husks, not humans themselves..

[EpyonX3]

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

someone is claiming to be from the art department in Bioware on /vg/.

I smell massive troll.

http://i.imgur.com/fJBTH.png

*shrug* it's possible he's for real, although he directly contradicts the apparent heirarchy of endings by saying that they consider control the neutral option, since (if that pic can be trusted, has it been confirmed?) the rods you grasp in control are labelled BadEnding.

Sounds a lot like what skeptics of IT have been saying. I don't take leaks seriously enough to claim anything, but that sounds pretty realistic.

And don't forget that Bioware also hated us calling the endings red, blue and green even though the file names are labeled red blue and green.

[IronSabbath88]

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

someone is claiming to be from the art department in Bioware on /vg/.

I smell massive troll.

http://i.imgur.com/fJBTH.png

*shrug* it's possible he's for real, although he directly contradicts the apparent heirarchy of endings by saying that they consider control the neutral option, since (if that pic can be trusted, has it been confirmed?) the rods you grasp in control are labelled BadEnding.

Sounds a lot like what skeptics of IT have been saying. I don't take leaks seriously enough to claim anything, but that sounds pretty realistic.

And don't forget that Bioware also hated us calling the endings red, blue and green even though the file names are labeled red blue and green.

You know it's already been confirmed fake, right?

[SS2Dante]

llbountyhunter wrote...

OK so the IT disbelievers try to disprove the unlimited ammo gun and, BOOM. IT is false? Why don't they disprove any of the bigger evidence like.

Shepard wakes on earth.
The fact that TIM can control Anderson+ Shepard (or why not just make them kill each other? )

Oh wait. You have, with the infamous "Bioware is lazy" line..

Actually...arg sorry, I forget his name, he's been quite useful with his flycam screenshots and stuff. Arg. Anyway, he's put forward an argument that it's on the citadel. Now, the two problems are the explosion and the concrete rubble, but apart from that he's pointed out that the rebar might actually be cables from the starchild room, and he's also said we don't know for a fact that there was no concrete on the citadel.

Also a few people have suggested that Samara (or Morinth?) has some power in 2 that lets you control bodies?

[ExtendedCut]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

I agree, but to me - even if IT is dead wrong when the EC comes out, it doens't make us idiots for trying to piece these clues together right now.  Even if we are completely wrong - why do some people get so MAD that we are specualting about it?  Support of IT doesn't hurt anyone who doesn't believe in it...

[MaximizedAction]

BatmanTurian wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

someone is claiming to be from the art department in Bioware on /vg/.

I smell massive troll.

http://i.imgur.com/fJBTH.png

regarding this from the same thread: http://social.biowar...ndex/11508288/5

Michael Gamble wrote...

Don't worry. This is not legit. In
fact, we aren't yet at a state in production where mr "art monkey"
could even see what he is describing.

Glad he nipped that in the bud quick.

quoted as reminder.

[SS2Dante]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

someone is claiming to be from the art department in Bioware on /vg/.

I smell massive troll.

http://i.imgur.com/fJBTH.png

*shrug* it's possible he's for real, although he directly contradicts the apparent heirarchy of endings by saying that they consider control the neutral option, since (if that pic can be trusted, has it been confirmed?) the rods you grasp in control are labelled BadEnding.

Sounds a lot like what skeptics of IT have been saying. I don't take leaks seriously enough to claim anything, but that sounds pretty realistic.

And don't forget that Bioware also hated us calling the endings red, blue and green even though the file names are labeled red blue and green.

You know it's already been confirmed fake, right?

LINK OR GTFO

Nah, has it?

EDIT - ah cool.

Modifié par SS2Dante, 18 avril 2012 - 06:26 .

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

I think, with the EC they are going to just add a bunch more hints that it's indoctrinatation, then a week later theyll reveal the "truth" DLC

Hey Balance, did you see the pics I posted about the 1m1?

[SS2Dante]

ExtendedCut wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

I'd also present the fact that people who take the endings literally are pretty much believing in a god that has the power to rewrite dna on a whim. A magic child in the sky that can teleport people, save someone from an explosion kilometers wide.

And you say the it theorists are taking things on faith? What?

^this. I quote this for it's truth!

We do realize that this is a video game we're discussing right?

For me that ship has sailed the day I decided to check out this forum for answers after my first playthrough.
Now I've been checking out BSN more often then memebase and facebook and it pays.
Because now I know about so many clues in the game, they helped me regain my trust in Bioware a little.

Yeah.  Yesterday, I posted that the ending must have been a huge marketing blunder for Bioware.  But if their intention was to stir people into debate and speculation about the ending, and therefore increase attention to their brand - then maybe the ending wasn't as big of a blunder as I first thought.

Also, look at at the great review scores the game got. Now, if it turned out this whol thing was a clever twist and the DLC isn't bad, most news places will probably bump the score up about 0.5, surely? Imagine how many new "perfect" scores that will generate, and the massive amount of new publicity it will get. More sales.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

I think, with the EC they are going to just add a bunch more hints that it's indoctrinatation, then a week later theyll reveal the "truth" DLC

Hey Balance, did you see the pics I posted about the 1m1?

No, what page?

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

I think, with the EC they are going to just add a bunch more hints that it's indoctrinatation, then a week later theyll reveal the "truth" DLC

Hey Balance, did you see the pics I posted about the 1m1?

No, what page?

1543 towards the bottom.

[llbountyhunter]

SS2Dante wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

OK so the IT disbelievers try to disprove the unlimited ammo gun and, BOOM. IT is false? Why don't they disprove any of the bigger evidence like.

Shepard wakes on earth.
The fact that TIM can control Anderson+ Shepard (or why not just make them kill each other? )

Oh wait. You have, with the infamous "Bioware is lazy" line..

Actually...arg sorry, I forget his name, he's been quite useful with his flycam screenshots and stuff. Arg. Anyway, he's put forward an argument that it's on the citadel. Now, the two problems are the explosion and the concrete rubble, but apart from that he's pointed out that the rebar might actually be cables from the starchild room, and he's also said we don't know for a fact that there was no concrete on the citadel.

Also a few people have suggested that Samara (or Morinth?) has some power in 2 that lets you control bodies?

Oh..... OK....... so the 2km explosion (right before a smaller more direct one) didn't happen?

So TIM became an asari with (whatever condition morinth had that gave her the power? )

[EpyonX3]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

someone is claiming to be from the art department in Bioware on /vg/.

I smell massive troll.

http://i.imgur.com/fJBTH.png

*shrug* it's possible he's for real, although he directly contradicts the apparent heirarchy of endings by saying that they consider control the neutral option, since (if that pic can be trusted, has it been confirmed?) the rods you grasp in control are labelled BadEnding.

Sounds a lot like what skeptics of IT have been saying. I don't take leaks seriously enough to claim anything, but that sounds pretty realistic.

And don't forget that Bioware also hated us calling the endings red, blue and green even though the file names are labeled red blue and green.

You know it's already been confirmed fake, right?

I just got back to the forum so no I didn't know. Is there a link or something where it's stated to be fake?

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...


1543 towards the bottom.

Thx for doing that!

[Rksmithers]

Rifneno wrote...

So am I the only one that really, REALLY thinks we should get off the religion analogies and commentary before it blows up in one of the many possible ways it can blow up?

I agree completely, before when this was just starting i suggested not bringing religion in to this, then i asked, now.... STOP WITH THE GOD DAMN RELIGIOUSE BS!!!!!!! OK ITS IRRELIVENT TO THE TOPIC AT HAND!!!!!!!

For crying out loud, this is a world where basicly god is ruled out, so in no way can religion be connected to the **** ending we got!!!

[BatmanTurian]

ExtendedCut wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Drift Avalii wrote...

@ BleedingUranium and ExtendedCut

Thanks :-) its just my feelings on it really, I do dislike how it seems to degenerate at times into glorified name-calling and belittling remarks. Not from everyone, but some. It really isn't about the rights to 'I told you so' when the EC comes out.

The moral high ground only goes so far I guess!

I have to be honest that the temptation to post " I told you so " 50 times in one post on the day EC comes out and verifies IT is very strong. But yes, we should take the high road and simply not comment if it happens.

I agree, but to me - even if IT is dead wrong when the EC comes out, it doens't make us idiots for trying to piece these clues together right now.  Even if we are completely wrong - why do some people get so MAD that we are specualting about it?  Support of IT doesn't hurt anyone who doesn't believe in it...

I completely agree, but I think in some cases, the animosity towards IT proponents is redirected anger at Bioware onto us by people in the Retake Movement.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

someone is claiming to be from the art department in Bioware on /vg/.

I smell massive troll.

http://i.imgur.com/fJBTH.png

*shrug* it's possible he's for real, although he directly contradicts the apparent heirarchy of endings by saying that they consider control the neutral option, since (if that pic can be trusted, has it been confirmed?) the rods you grasp in control are labelled BadEnding.

Sounds a lot like what skeptics of IT have been saying. I don't take leaks seriously enough to claim anything, but that sounds pretty realistic.

And don't forget that Bioware also hated us calling the endings red, blue and green even though the file names are labeled red blue and green.

You know it's already been confirmed fake, right?

I just got back to the forum so no I didn't know. Is there a link or something where it's stated to be fake?

http://social.biowar...x/11508288&lf=8 

[ExtendedCut]

SS2Dante wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

I'd also present the fact that people who take the endings literally are pretty much believing in a god that has the power to rewrite dna on a whim. A magic child in the sky that can teleport people, save someone from an explosion kilometers wide.

And you say the it theorists are taking things on faith? What?

^this. I quote this for it's truth!

We do realize that this is a video game we're discussing right?

For me that ship has sailed the day I decided to check out this forum for answers after my first playthrough.
Now I've been checking out BSN more often then memebase and facebook and it pays.
Because now I know about so many clues in the game, they helped me regain my trust in Bioware a little.

Yeah.  Yesterday, I posted that the ending must have been a huge marketing blunder for Bioware.  But if their intention was to stir people into debate and speculation about the ending, and therefore increase attention to their brand - then maybe the ending wasn't as big of a blunder as I first thought.

Also, look at at the great review scores the game got. Now, if it turned out this whol thing was a clever twist and the DLC isn't bad, most news places will probably bump the score up about 0.5, surely? Imagine how many new "perfect" scores that will generate, and the massive amount of new publicity it will get. More sales.

You're right - excellent point.  Remains to be seen if EC does actually make people happy, but this could turn out to be a huge marketing risk that has the result of making Bioware a household name.