57139 réponses à ce sujet

[llbountyhunter]

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's a clue.

When we see the Wavy Black lines on the screen, we usually know who they're targeting. If it's Shepard, he rubs his head and gut. Anderson, being stuck in on position, just grunts at the pain and even TIM is effected by it when he admits they're too strong.

The Wavy lines aren't indicative of Shepard being indoctrinated by reapers, they're just there to illustrate that the attempt is being done on one of the parties in the room.

I'll upload pics or a video showing what I mean if you guys are interested in debating this.

*grabs popcorn*

Those lines appear when TIM applies his power on to Shep and Anderson.

Actually we all seem to be ignoring the fact that indoctrination is not usually visible. or am i forgetting something?

+1

[balance5050]

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


I always thought he wanted him to believe so that he could use Shepard to control them. He knows Shepard isn't under reaper control and wouldn't be influenced by them trying to stop him.

TIM still has some sort of control to still believe he can defeat the reapers by controlling them. Unlike Saren who wanted everyone to lay down and accept what's coming.

yes, that's the interpretation I was representing.

He should have said "You can control the reapers" then... Not "I need you to believe that *I* can control them"

[Golferguy758]

The oily shadows are streams of nanides? Seriously? Seriously?!

What is this. I don't even

[llbountyhunter]

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's a clue.

When we see the Wavy Black lines on the screen, we usually know who they're targeting. If it's Shepard, he rubs his head and gut. Anderson, being stuck in on position, just grunts at the pain and even TIM is effected by it when he admits they're too strong.

The Wavy lines aren't indicative of Shepard being indoctrinated by reapers, they're just there to illustrate that the attempt is being done on one of the parties in the room.

I'll upload pics or a video showing what I mean if you guys are interested in debating this.

*grabs popcorn*

Those lines appear when TIM applies his power on to Shep and Anderson.

Actually we all seem to be ignoring the fact that indoctrination is not usually visible. or am i forgetting something?

People are linking the wavy lines to the Rachni queens descriptions of how the other rachni sounded during the war. She described them as oily shadows.

Because she sees the world through sound and other mediums. Shepard's mind trays to replicate this into a phisical reality.

[SS2Dante]

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's a clue.

When we see the Wavy Black lines on the screen, we usually know who they're targeting. If it's Shepard, he rubs his head and gut. Anderson, being stuck in on position, just grunts at the pain and even TIM is effected by it when he admits they're too strong.

The Wavy lines aren't indicative of Shepard being indoctrinated by reapers, they're just there to illustrate that the attempt is being done on one of the parties in the room.

I'll upload pics or a video showing what I mean if you guys are interested in debating this.

*grabs popcorn*

Those lines appear when TIM applies his power on to Shep and Anderson.

Actually we all seem to be ignoring the fact that indoctrination is not usually visible. or am i forgetting something?

yes, those wavy lines would be visible to someone in the process of being indoctrinated.

..to the player of a game, I think you mean. It's incredibly doubtful Saren was walking around with black lines around his vision

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


I always thought he wanted him to believe so that he could use Shepard to control them. He knows Shepard isn't under reaper control and wouldn't be influenced by them trying to stop him.

TIM still has some sort of control to still believe he can defeat the reapers by controlling them. Unlike Saren who wanted everyone to lay down and accept what's coming.

yes, that's the interpretation I was representing.

He should have said "You can control the reapers" then... Not "I need you to believe that *I* can control them"

He would need to first convince Shepard that he can. Shepard already doesn't trust TIM. Especially after the events on Thessia.

He obviously fails at convincing him because even he doesn't know. But he seems desparate enough to at least try.

[llbountyhunter]

Golferguy758 wrote...

The oily shadows are streams of nanides? Seriously? Seriously?!

What is this. I don't even

Yes.... they have solidly disprove IT.

[EpyonX3]

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's a clue.

When we see the Wavy Black lines on the screen, we usually know who they're targeting. If it's Shepard, he rubs his head and gut. Anderson, being stuck in on position, just grunts at the pain and even TIM is effected by it when he admits they're too strong.

The Wavy lines aren't indicative of Shepard being indoctrinated by reapers, they're just there to illustrate that the attempt is being done on one of the parties in the room.

I'll upload pics or a video showing what I mean if you guys are interested in debating this.

*grabs popcorn*

Those lines appear when TIM applies his power on to Shep and Anderson.

Actually we all seem to be ignoring the fact that indoctrination is not usually visible. or am i forgetting something?

yes, those wavy lines would be visible to someone in the process of being indoctrinated.

..to the player of a game, I think you mean. It's incredibly doubtful Saren was walking around with black lines around his vision

That and we see similar effects when he turns into a husk. Shepard wasn't the target, it's just there to illustrate what's going on.

Modifié par EpyonX3, 18 avril 2012 - 07:24 .

[BatmanTurian]

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


I always thought he wanted him to believe so that he could use Shepard to control them. He knows Shepard isn't under reaper control and wouldn't be influenced by them trying to stop him.

TIM still has some sort of control to still believe he can defeat the reapers by controlling them. Unlike Saren who wanted everyone to lay down and accept what's coming.

yes, that's the interpretation I was representing.

He should have said "You can control the reapers" then... Not "I need you to believe that *I* can control them"

Maybe he wants to closely guard that power and doesn't completely trust Shepherd enough to share it with him/her? They've never been in any kind of solid trusting relationship. (Again, Disclaimer: playing Devil's Advocate)

[ExtendedCut]

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


I don't know if nanites would be airborn

The so-called "oily shadows" in the Citadel scene are swarms of nanides. Oily shadows is just a poetic name for technical means of indoctrination. Ever saw dust under the microscope? There are billions of tiny discrete elements but still with an unarmed eye you see dust as a cloud.

The dream sequences are more poetic so the oily shadows are use there literally as figures of people.

No, to far of a stretch. You are assuming way to much, we like to deal with facts here. The oily shadows ARE NOT
"swarms of nanides".

Yeah.  I'll admit that nanides may be a possibility in Bioware's writing, but it sure seems like a L-O-N-G stretch to me.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


I always thought he wanted him to believe so that he could use Shepard to control them. He knows Shepard isn't under reaper control and wouldn't be influenced by them trying to stop him.

TIM still has some sort of control to still believe he can defeat the reapers by controlling them. Unlike Saren who wanted everyone to lay down and accept what's coming.

yes, that's the interpretation I was representing.

He should have said "You can control the reapers" then... Not "I need you to believe that *I* can control them"

He would need to first convince Shepard that he can. Shepard already doesn't trust TIM. Especially after the events on Thessia.

He obviously fails at convincing him because even he doesn't know. But he seems desparate enough to at least try.

Especially since the last cycle had that splinter group that was exactly like cerberus because they thought they could control the reapers who were found out to be indoctrinated and this same thing happens like every cycle.

[paxxton]

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


I don't know if nanites would be airborn

The so-called "oily shadows" in the Citadel scene are swarms of nanides. Oily shadows is just a poetic name for technical means of indoctrination. Ever saw dust under the microscope? There are billions of tiny discrete elements but still with an unarmed eye you see dust as a cloud.

The dream sequences are more poetic so the oily shadows are use there literally as figures of people.

No, to far of a stretch. You are assuming way to much, we like to deal with facts here. The oily shadows ARE NOT
"swarms of nanides".

So shadows (which need a light source and a lit object) made of an airborne substance (which anyway is made of tiny discrete particles) that happen to be figures of people or tendrils is not too far-stretched. The point is the "in-game facts" need to be put into perspective with what might produce the same effect in real life (ME is not fantasy, it has to be believable).

My explanation does not disprove IT.

Modifié par paxxton, 18 avril 2012 - 07:27 .

[GamerrangerX]

is not a hallucination,Bioware is aware of lack of clarity that why they gonna made a extended cut but they not ganna change the ending

[llbountyhunter]

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's a clue.

When we see the Wavy Black lines on the screen, we usually know who they're targeting. If it's Shepard, he rubs his head and gut. Anderson, being stuck in on position, just grunts at the pain and even TIM is effected by it when he admits they're too strong.

The Wavy lines aren't indicative of Shepard being indoctrinated by reapers, they're just there to illustrate that the attempt is being done on one of the parties in the room.

I'll upload pics or a video showing what I mean if you guys are interested in debating this.

*grabs popcorn*

Those lines appear when TIM applies his power on to Shep and Anderson.

Actually we all seem to be ignoring the fact that indoctrination is not usually visible. or am i forgetting something?

yes, those wavy lines would be visible to someone in the process of being indoctrinated.

..to the player of a game, I think you mean. It's incredibly doubtful Saren was walking around with black lines around his vision

I don't think so. The reason the queen saw it was because she sees the world through sound, and other mediums. No other species has mentioned oily shadows. Only headaches, and eaeling watched. Shepard turns what he hears into a reality in his dreams. Its how he thinks it should look. Imo

[BatmanTurian]

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's a clue.

When we see the Wavy Black lines on the screen, we usually know who they're targeting. If it's Shepard, he rubs his head and gut. Anderson, being stuck in on position, just grunts at the pain and even TIM is effected by it when he admits they're too strong.

The Wavy lines aren't indicative of Shepard being indoctrinated by reapers, they're just there to illustrate that the attempt is being done on one of the parties in the room.

I'll upload pics or a video showing what I mean if you guys are interested in debating this.

*grabs popcorn*

Those lines appear when TIM applies his power on to Shep and Anderson.

Actually we all seem to be ignoring the fact that indoctrination is not usually visible. or am i forgetting something?

yes, those wavy lines would be visible to someone in the process of being indoctrinated.

..to the player of a game, I think you mean. It's incredibly doubtful Saren was walking around with black lines around his vision

I think it's perfectly possible that when the Reapers try to tighten their grip, a character sees the oily waves as a hallucination. It's possible this is the pain felt by the indoctrinated, similar to Saren when he tried to break control and said Sovereign was too strong. And we're supposed to experience the world through the filter of Shepherd.

But sure, it could just be a gameplay element, I agree.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 18 avril 2012 - 07:30 .

[balance5050]

llbountyhunter wrote...


I don't think so. The reason the queen saw it was because she sees the world through sound, and other mediums. No other species has mentioned oily shadows. Only headaches, and eaeling watched. Shepard turns what he hears into a reality in his dreams. Its how he thinks it should look. Imo

This^ is what I'm leaning towards.

[FreedMason]

 Hey guys. Just wanted to say just how great this theory is, and how it transforms a rubbish and insulting endind into a comprehensive one. I think Bioware intended to have indoctrination play out, but for whatever reason abandoned it at the last moment, leaving the clues behind. I think the only convincing argument against indoctrination is out of game; why would Bioware risk financial suicide for a plot twist? The ugly truth is that Bioware is going to have a bleak future, and possible turn into Pandemic Studios if they permanently lose loyal customers.

All in all, there is too much evidence to be desmissed as laziness, such as the oily shadows, the overall "wierd" presentation of the Citadel Run, the extremley creepy and seemingly supernatural Vancouver child, etcetera. The Mass Effect fans are smart cookies, some folk pieced together who Liara's father was before ME3 and Lair of the Shadow Broker. Because of that, it is likely that indoctrination will be my personal canon even if the Extended Cut is awful, and sticks with Space Voodo. 

[llbountyhunter]

GamerrangerX wrote...

is not a hallucination,Bioware is aware of lack of clarity that why they gonna made a extended cut but they not ganna change the ending

*sigh*

IT doesn't change the current endings- it clarifies them.

[balance5050]

llbountyhunter wrote...

GamerrangerX wrote...

is not a hallucination,Bioware is aware of lack of clarity that why they gonna made a extended cut but they not ganna change the ending

*sigh*

IT doesn't change the current endings- it clarifies them.

LOL at the randoms who come in.

[Golferguy758]

Problem with the theory that tim really wants to convince shep is that the whole game. The WHOLE GAME has tim saying I don't car what you think shepard. This is how it is. I'm right.you are wrong.

And then at the end tim is all "please believe me shepard. Pretty please with sugar on top! I know i'm right believe me!"

That is a 900 degree turn for tim's character. It is such a flip he spins around twice before heading in the opposite direction his character views were originally going

[BatmanTurian]

FreedMason wrote...

 Hey guys. Just wanted to say just how great this theory is, and how it transforms a rubbish and insulting endind into a comprehensive one. I think Bioware intended to have indoctrination play out, but for whatever reason abandoned it at the last moment, leaving the clues behind. I think the only convincing argument against indoctrination is out of game; why would Bioware risk financial suicide for a plot twist? The ugly truth is that Bioware is going to have a bleak future, and possible turn into Pandemic Studios if they permanently lose loyal customers.

All in all, there is too much evidence to be desmissed as laziness, such as the oily shadows, the overall "wierd" presentation of the Citadel Run, the extremley creepy and seemingly supernatural Vancouver child, etcetera. The Mass Effect fans are smart cookies, some folk pieced together who Liara's father was before ME3 and Lair of the Shadow Broker. Because of that, it is likely that indoctrination will be my personal canon even if the Extended Cut is awful, and sticks with Space Voodo. 

Welcome to the supposed Looney Bin of the Mass Effect 3 forums;). 

[BleedingUranium]

EpyonX3 wrote...

One thing I can deduce from the fake leak is what the bioware employee stated.

"In fact, we aren't yet at a state in production where mr "art monkey" could even see what he is describing."

Doesn't that suggest that they're making the new content from scratch and it wasn't planned?

Either that or Mr. Gamble might be stretching the truth a bit.

Actually, I think they had to rush the ending (most likely because of EA) and were running out of time. Instead of making it like Halo 2 (there was never originally going to be a Halo 3) where they cut the end completely, or Crysis 2, where everything suffered somewhat do to time, they decided, since Mass Effect can have DLC story, unlike other games, they'd cut the shipped story somewhere it would make sense to pause the story as it were, then use all the time they have later to finish the story.

This, come to think of it, is truely artistic integrity. Not giving in to cutting the story down, and working with EA's timeline. I think this is why the end is being made now.

[llbountyhunter]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Problem with the theory that tim really wants to convince shep is that the whole game. The WHOLE GAME has tim saying I don't car what you think shepard. This is how it is. I'm right.you are wrong.

And then at the end tim is all "please believe me shepard. Pretty please with sugar on top! I know i'm right believe me!"

That is a 900 degree turn for tim's character. It is such a flip he spins around twice before heading in the opposite direction his character views were originally going

Pardon me, but isn't that a problem with the current endings? And can be gracefully solved with IT?

[SS2Dante]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's a clue.

When we see the Wavy Black lines on the screen, we usually know who they're targeting. If it's Shepard, he rubs his head and gut. Anderson, being stuck in on position, just grunts at the pain and even TIM is effected by it when he admits they're too strong.

The Wavy lines aren't indicative of Shepard being indoctrinated by reapers, they're just there to illustrate that the attempt is being done on one of the parties in the room.

I'll upload pics or a video showing what I mean if you guys are interested in debating this.

*grabs popcorn*

Those lines appear when TIM applies his power on to Shep and Anderson.

Actually we all seem to be ignoring the fact that indoctrination is not usually visible. or am i forgetting something?

yes, those wavy lines would be visible to someone in the process of being indoctrinated.

..to the player of a game, I think you mean. It's incredibly doubtful Saren was walking around with black lines around his vision

I don't think so. The reason the queen saw it was because she sees the world through sound, and other mediums. No other species has mentioned oily shadows. Only headaches, and eaeling watched. Shepard turns what he hears into a reality in his dreams. Its how he thinks it should look. Imo

Oh, I completely agree. I only think the shadows are visible at all because Anderson is still alive. They are the manifestation of Shepard realising indoctrination is being attempted.

By the way, a lot of people keep talking like TIM is some invisible entity conjured up by Harbinger. I though we all agreed that he is the representation of Shepards indoctrinated side?

[SubAstris]

FreedMason wrote...

 Hey guys. Just wanted to say just how great this theory is, and how it transforms a rubbish and insulting endind into a comprehensive one. I think Bioware intended to have indoctrination play out, but for whatever reason abandoned it at the last moment, leaving the clues behind. I think the only convincing argument against indoctrination is out of game; why would Bioware risk financial suicide for a plot twist? The ugly truth is that Bioware is going to have a bleak future, and possible turn into Pandemic Studios if they permanently lose loyal customers.

All in all, there is too much evidence to be desmissed as laziness, such as the oily shadows, the overall "wierd" presentation of the Citadel Run, the extremley creepy and seemingly supernatural Vancouver child, etcetera. The Mass Effect fans are smart cookies, some folk pieced together who Liara's father was before ME3 and Lair of the Shadow Broker. Because of that, it is likely that indoctrination will be my personal canon even if the Extended Cut is awful, and sticks with Space Voodo. 

How exactly is the Citadel Run weird? Is that really good enough evidence for IT anyway?