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[SS2Dante]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

So no one seems to be interested in discussing "swarms of nanites" from Sanctuary.

I thought someone pointed out that these nanites turn people into Husks?

Husk are in the final stage of indoctrination (post-indoctrination) so it could all have started with nanites.

No, husks are the reanimated dead bodies of people. We've also seen that it's a fast process. 

The codex entry on indoctrination says Reapers use the 'fast' method of indoctrination (that is, it happens very quickly but deteriorates a person's mind) for creating husks as shock troops, if I remember right.

Hmm this whole thing is a bit thorny.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Husk 

Indicates that you need to physically put them on the dragons teeth if you're a ground soldier, but reaper artefacts can do it if the organic is close enough?

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...


It goes away just as Anderson dies. It only comes up again when Anderson gets on the ground.

Alternatively, It shows up when TIM is fighting indoctrination and goes away just before he turns and shoots himself.

So this would indicate that it's simply a reaper indoctrination effect. Right?

[BatmanTurian]

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

So no one seems to be interested in discussing "swarms of nanites" from Sanctuary.

I thought someone pointed out that these nanites turn people into Husks?

Husk are in the final stage of indoctrination (post-indoctrination) so it could all have started with nanites.

Nanites fast track to huskification and skips the whole "it's in your head" part

Husks *can be* a final stage but it's not like rana thanoptis turned into a husk. If Shep were injected with nanites, he wouldn't be indoctrinated, he would just be a husk.

Inhaling nanites might make their spread slower. In the end Shepard is turned into a husk anyway (Control/Synthesis).
If he chooses Destroy, according to IT none of this matters because he wakes up and you can consider swarms of nanites as a means to visualize indoctrination (but only outside of the dream, during the dream they should be considered as a concrete piece of technology).

I think you might be ascribing too much importance and speculation into the nanites. The Sythesis and Control make him a husk without nanites. The nanites TIM was using were to control husks, not turn organics into husks.

[SS2Dante]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

*snip*

Saren's not being indoctrinated, though :S

Also, we never see this for any other indoctrination. 

Perhaps we're looking at this the wrong way, and the effect (both times) is for the player. Specifically -  arg scary reaper is doing something.

I mean, none of the characters mention in. In fact, before this discussion, it hadn't even crossed my mind that they were seeing it. 

Yeah, maybe like I said, It's just supposed to give the player an eerie feeling associated with direct contact with the Reapers. And that kind of strengthen's IT a little.

It also goes away when you shoot TIM, doesn't it? If it were Reapers trying to brute force attack you why does it stop when you shoot TIM? IT explains this, literal doesn't.

Correct on both counts.

It goes away just as Anderson dies. It only comes up again when Anderson gets on the ground.

Alternatively, It shows up when TIM is fighting indoctrination and goes away just before he turns and shoots himself.

Confusing first statement

[SS2Dante]

Here, guys

http://www.youtube.c...uWNkIUf0#t=187s

Turn up the volume or put in earphones and you can hear the dream whispers.

EDIT - I didn't realise of the significance of this cos I'm so used to IT. In the literal theory the dream whispers are Shepards PTSD. They shouldn't be here.

Modifié par SS2Dante, 18 avril 2012 - 08:44 .

[EpyonX3]

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

So no one seems to be interested in discussing "swarms of nanites" from Sanctuary.

I thought someone pointed out that these nanites turn people into Husks?

Husk are in the final stage of indoctrination (post-indoctrination) so it could all have started with nanites.

Nanites fast track to huskification and skips the whole "it's in your head" part

Husks *can be* a final stage but it's not like rana thanoptis turned into a husk. If Shep were injected with nanites, he wouldn't be indoctrinated, he would just be a husk.

Inhaling nanites might make their spread slower. In the end Shepard is turned into a husk anyway (Control/Synthesis).
If he chooses Destroy, according to IT none of this matters because he wakes up and you can consider swarms of nanites as a means to visualize indoctrination (but only outside of the dream, during the dream they should be considered as a concrete piece of technology).

They weren't nanites because Anderson was already under control before the wave appeared. 

Nanites clearly go after the subject's entire body like a swarm of bugs. Shepard would have been swatting at himself before he was paralized.

Also, how do you explain TIM's glowing hands?

[SubAstris]

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Just because they did it slighlty differently doesn't make it not real. You also slowly walk when you are on the original Normandy when it is attacked by the Collector ship, are the ending scenes and that therefore connected?

"Nothing Anderson makes any sense"- Such as?

The Illusive Man, as established on Sanctuary, has limited ability to control organics, which is what he does to Shepard

"what sounded like Reaper grumbling"- ??

The illusive man was studying how to control husk and similar things, NOT ORGANICS.

Evidence?

? uhm. Everything you're told at Sanctuary?

Direct quotes?

must we do everything for you? You can't go research it yourself or play through the mission?

If you are asserting things, then expect questions

[EpyonX3]

SS2Dante wrote...

Here, guys

http://www.youtube.c...uWNkIUf0#t=187s

Turn up the volume or put in earphones and you can hear the dream whispers.

Those aren't all whispers. I played the game with no music and the sound gets blended into the sound of the electricity sparking behind you. The whispers are mostly pevelant when the black waves are present.

[BatmanTurian]

SS2Dante wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

So no one seems to be interested in discussing "swarms of nanites" from Sanctuary.

I thought someone pointed out that these nanites turn people into Husks?

Husk are in the final stage of indoctrination (post-indoctrination) so it could all have started with nanites.

No, husks are the reanimated dead bodies of people. We've also seen that it's a fast process. 

The codex entry on indoctrination says Reapers use the 'fast' method of indoctrination (that is, it happens very quickly but deteriorates a person's mind) for creating husks as shock troops, if I remember right.

Hmm this whole thing is a bit thorny.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Husk 

Indicates that you need to physically put them on the dragons teeth if you're a ground soldier, but reaper artefacts can do it if the organic is close enough?

That's actually what happened to TIM. His buddy touched an artifact that turned him into a Husk and then Tim grabbed his buddy to pull him away, causing the effect to spread to him before pulling his buddy away. A whole Turian science team was turned into Husks while studying it. ( source: Mass Effect: Evolution  http://masseffect.wi...fect:_Evolution )

[llbountyhunter]

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

So no one seems to be interested in discussing "swarms of nanites" from Sanctuary.

I thought someone pointed out that these nanites turn people into Husks?

Husk are in the final stage of indoctrination (post-indoctrination) so it could all have started with nanites.

Nanites fast track to huskification and skips the whole "it's in your head" part

Husks *can be* a final stage but it's not like rana thanoptis turned into a husk. If Shep were injected with nanites, he wouldn't be indoctrinated, he would just be a husk.

Inhaling nanites might make their spread slower. In the end Shepard is turned into a husk anyway (Control/Synthesis).
If he chooses Destroy, according to IT none of this matters because he wakes up and you can consider swarms of nanites as a means to visualize indoctrination (but only outside of the dream, during the dream they should be considered as a concrete piece of technology).

I think you might be ascribing too much importance and speculation into the nanites. The Sythesis and Control make him a husk without nanites. The nanites TIM was using were to control husks, not turn organics into husks.

Don't you see it? The NANITES! The NANITES ARE THE KEY TO EVERYTHING!!

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 18 avril 2012 - 08:46 .

[EpyonX3]

SS2Dante wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

*snip*

Saren's not being indoctrinated, though :S

Also, we never see this for any other indoctrination. 

Perhaps we're looking at this the wrong way, and the effect (both times) is for the player. Specifically -  arg scary reaper is doing something.

I mean, none of the characters mention in. In fact, before this discussion, it hadn't even crossed my mind that they were seeing it. 

Yeah, maybe like I said, It's just supposed to give the player an eerie feeling associated with direct contact with the Reapers. And that kind of strengthen's IT a little.

It also goes away when you shoot TIM, doesn't it? If it were Reapers trying to brute force attack you why does it stop when you shoot TIM? IT explains this, literal doesn't.

Correct on both counts.

It goes away just as Anderson dies. It only comes up again when Anderson gets on the ground.

Alternatively, It shows up when TIM is fighting indoctrination and goes away just before he turns and shoots himself.

Confusing first statement

Haha sorry I've been a mess lately trying to type these up really quick. I'll clarify.

The waves come up when Anderson gets on the ground but go away just as or a little before Anderson dies.

[SS2Dante]

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Here, guys

http://www.youtube.c...uWNkIUf0#t=187s

Turn up the volume or put in earphones and you can hear the dream whispers.

Those aren't all whispers. I played the game with no music and the sound gets blended into the sound of the electricity sparking behind you. The whispers are mostly pevelant when the black waves are present.

Yes. But they are also from the dreams. Even saying in literal theory that it's the reapers trying to indoctrinate you forces you to say that they may have a similar function in Shepards dreams.

Also, what electricity? :S There's the general ambience, but...I'll relisten.

EDIT - ok, I relistened, and from the point I linked (it starts a bit before that but I can't be bothered relinking:P) the whispers do not stop until you shoot TIM. After the music quiets down I can hear the electricity and I can say that it's definitely not that that I'm hearing beforehand. The whispers aren't even that quiet

Modifié par SS2Dante, 18 avril 2012 - 08:54 .

[EpyonX3]

llbountyhunter wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

So no one seems to be interested in discussing "swarms of nanites" from Sanctuary.

I thought someone pointed out that these nanites turn people into Husks?

Husk are in the final stage of indoctrination (post-indoctrination) so it could all have started with nanites.

Nanites fast track to huskification and skips the whole "it's in your head" part

Husks *can be* a final stage but it's not like rana thanoptis turned into a husk. If Shep were injected with nanites, he wouldn't be indoctrinated, he would just be a husk.

Inhaling nanites might make their spread slower. In the end Shepard is turned into a husk anyway (Control/Synthesis).
If he chooses Destroy, according to IT none of this matters because he wakes up and you can consider swarms of nanites as a means to visualize indoctrination (but only outside of the dream, during the dream they should be considered as a concrete piece of technology).

I think you might be ascribing too much importance and speculation into the nanites. The Sythesis and Control make him a husk without nanites. The nanites TIM was using were to control husks, not turn organics into husks.

Don't you see it? The NANITES! The NANITES ARE THE KEY TO EVERYTHING!!

I can see a meme to this.

[BatmanTurian]

SubAstris wrote...

If you are asserting things, then expect questions

http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Sanctuary

"At the far end and on the left, there's another Lawson Daughter Terminal, containing evidence
her father is working for the Illusive Man (in case you hadn't figured it out by now). You then get another clip of the Illusive Man and Henry Lawson talking about their experiments, which are about gaining control of husks. "

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 18 avril 2012 - 08:49 .

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...


If you are asserting things, then expect questions

WTH, why would TIM be studying how to control organics?


He's trying to learn how to control the reapers. 

[SS2Dante]

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

*snip*

Saren's not being indoctrinated, though :S

Also, we never see this for any other indoctrination. 

Perhaps we're looking at this the wrong way, and the effect (both times) is for the player. Specifically -  arg scary reaper is doing something.

I mean, none of the characters mention in. In fact, before this discussion, it hadn't even crossed my mind that they were seeing it. 

Yeah, maybe like I said, It's just supposed to give the player an eerie feeling associated with direct contact with the Reapers. And that kind of strengthen's IT a little.

It also goes away when you shoot TIM, doesn't it? If it were Reapers trying to brute force attack you why does it stop when you shoot TIM? IT explains this, literal doesn't.

Correct on both counts.

It goes away just as Anderson dies. It only comes up again when Anderson gets on the ground.

Alternatively, It shows up when TIM is fighting indoctrination and goes away just before he turns and shoots himself.

Confusing first statement

Haha sorry I've been a mess lately trying to type these up really quick. I'll clarify.

The waves come up when Anderson gets on the ground but go away just as or a little before Anderson dies.

Haven't checked but I'll take your word. What's the literal interpretation of this? We've already stated that in IT Anderson is the part of you that can sense the indoctrination, so that checks out, but I don't see the literal explanation, apart from coincidence, I suppose.

[EpyonX3]

SS2Dante wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Here, guys

http://www.youtube.c...uWNkIUf0#t=187s

Turn up the volume or put in earphones and you can hear the dream whispers.

Those aren't all whispers. I played the game with no music and the sound gets blended into the sound of the electricity sparking behind you. The whispers are mostly pevelant when the black waves are present.

Yes. But they are also from the dreams. Even saying in literal theory that it's the reapers trying to indoctrinate you forces you to say that they may have a similar function in Shepards dreams.

Also, what electricity? :S There's the general ambience, but...I'll relisten.

True that they are similar. However, Shepard doesn't come out of his dreams being more sympathetic towards the reapers or changes his course of action. Those whispers coupled with the whispers of your friends is enough for me to take them as being representative of Shep's guilt for letting down people he doesn't know.

It makes sense to hear whispers during the last scene because for the first time in the series we can be sure that his mind has been forced into by a reaper like force.

Also the eound is from the panels that you pass on you're way to the control panel.

[paxxton]

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

So no one seems to be interested in discussing "swarms of nanites" from Sanctuary.

I thought someone pointed out that these nanites turn people into Husks?

Husk are in the final stage of indoctrination (post-indoctrination) so it could all have started with nanites.

Nanites fast track to huskification and skips the whole "it's in your head" part

Husks *can be* a final stage but it's not like rana thanoptis turned into a husk. If Shep were injected with nanites, he wouldn't be indoctrinated, he would just be a husk.

Inhaling nanites might make their spread slower. In the end Shepard is turned into a husk anyway (Control/Synthesis).
If he chooses Destroy, according to IT none of this matters because he wakes up and you can consider swarms of nanites as a means to visualize indoctrination (but only outside of the dream, during the dream they should be considered as a concrete piece of technology).

I think you might be ascribing too much importance and speculation into the nanites. The Sythesis and Control make him a husk without nanites. The nanites TIM was using were to control husks, not turn organics into husks.

I think the Reapers attempt "rapid indoctrination" in the final scene, hence the dense atmosphere.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Here, guys

http://www.youtube.c...uWNkIUf0#t=187s

Turn up the volume or put in earphones and you can hear the dream whispers.

Those aren't all whispers. I played the game with no music and the sound gets blended into the sound of the electricity sparking behind you. The whispers are mostly pevelant when the black waves are present.

Yes. But they are also from the dreams. Even saying in literal theory that it's the reapers trying to indoctrinate you forces you to say that they may have a similar function in Shepards dreams.

Also, what electricity? :S There's the general ambience, but...I'll relisten.

True that they are similar. However, Shepard doesn't come out of his dreams being more sympathetic towards the reapers or changes his course of action. Those whispers coupled with the whispers of your friends is enough for me to take them as being representative of Shep's guilt for letting down people he doesn't know.

It makes sense to hear whispers during the last scene because for the first time in the series we can be sure that his mind has been forced into by a reaper like force.

Also the eound is from the panels that you pass on you're way to the control panel.

Regardless of how one "takes them", whispers are a symptom of indoctrination according to the codex.

[SixG90]

I think I found something that supports rebar in the breath scene. I've replayed the bomb mission on tuchanka, where there is a lot of rubble and REBAR. And this rebar is exacly like that from the ending scene, only at a low-res, and you can see rebar bended and spaced like in the breath scene... if someone can post pics about this I would be grateful, because I can't do it myself.

[EpyonX3]

SS2Dante wrote...


Haven't checked but I'll take your word. What's the literal interpretation of this? We've already stated that in IT Anderson is the part of you that can sense the indoctrination, so that checks out, but I don't see the literal explanation, apart from coincidence, I suppose.

TIM, although in possesion of Reaper powers, is still Human and sloppy. He forgets to apply the same amount of force on Shepard just before he shoots him. If you notice, the wavy lines don't appear as He raises his gun towards Shepard. Shepard shakes his head, opens his eyes more and grips his gun, indicating to the player that Shepard is loose before he gets the chance to take the shot.

Modifié par EpyonX3, 18 avril 2012 - 08:55 .

[balance5050]

mrs.N7 wrote...

I think I found something that supports rebar in the breath scene. I've replayed the bomb mission on tuchanka, where there is a lot of rubble and REBAR. And this rebar is exacly like that from the ending scene, only at a low-res, and you can see rebar bended and spaced like in the breath scene... if someone can post pics about this I would be grateful, because I can't do it myself.

If someone could find rebar that looks exactly like those cables, that would be huge.

[EpyonX3]

mrs.N7 wrote...

I think I found something that supports rebar in the breath scene. I've replayed the bomb mission on tuchanka, where there is a lot of rubble and REBAR. And this rebar is exacly like that from the ending scene, only at a low-res, and you can see rebar bended and spaced like in the breath scene... if someone can post pics about this I would be grateful, because I can't do it myself.

Luckily I have a save file for the specific mission. Don't know why. What part specifically if you remember?

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Here, guys

http://www.youtube.c...uWNkIUf0#t=187s

Turn up the volume or put in earphones and you can hear the dream whispers.

Those aren't all whispers. I played the game with no music and the sound gets blended into the sound of the electricity sparking behind you. The whispers are mostly pevelant when the black waves are present.

Yes. But they are also from the dreams. Even saying in literal theory that it's the reapers trying to indoctrinate you forces you to say that they may have a similar function in Shepards dreams.

Also, what electricity? :S There's the general ambience, but...I'll relisten.

True that they are similar. However, Shepard doesn't come out of his dreams being more sympathetic towards the reapers or changes his course of action. Those whispers coupled with the whispers of your friends is enough for me to take them as being representative of Shep's guilt for letting down people he doesn't know.

It makes sense to hear whispers during the last scene because for the first time in the series we can be sure that his mind has been forced into by a reaper like force.

Also the eound is from the panels that you pass on you're way to the control panel.

Regardless of how one "takes them", whispers are a symptom of indoctrination according to the codex.

Not debating you there. Just note that It doesn't hurt nor help the theory much.

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

paxxton wrote...

So no one seems to be interested in discussing "swarms of nanites" from Sanctuary.

I thought someone pointed out that these nanites turn people into Husks?

Husk are in the final stage of indoctrination (post-indoctrination) so it could all have started with nanites.

Nanites fast track to huskification and skips the whole "it's in your head" part

Husks *can be* a final stage but it's not like rana thanoptis turned into a husk. If Shep were injected with nanites, he wouldn't be indoctrinated, he would just be a husk.

Inhaling nanites might make their spread slower. In the end Shepard is turned into a husk anyway (Control/Synthesis).
If he chooses Destroy, according to IT none of this matters because he wakes up and you can consider swarms of nanites as a means to visualize indoctrination (but only outside of the dream, during the dream they should be considered as a concrete piece of technology).

They weren't nanites because Anderson was already under control before the wave appeared. 

Nanites clearly go after the subject's entire body like a swarm of bugs. Shepard would have been swatting at himself before he was paralized.

Also, how do you explain TIM's glowing hands?

Cybernetic augmentations.