57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Hawk227]

It became apparent she was just sharing her opinion (read: making stuff up), so I stopped paying attention.

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Me neither. All I see is a random poll.

I was referring to when you said this: "According to one of the comments, Bioware confirmed Joker is picking up the crew in the extended cut"  I don't remember any of the Bioware staff saying that.
  

I think Jessica Merizan said it on Twitter...

Last I heard any speculations from her it sounded like she saw something pretty cool, and hasn't said much about since. Anyone keeping tabs?

See Bioware is pissing me off.

If Jessica said she saw something cool and it had to do with EC, then that post from earlier today could have been true and Bioware outright lied about it.

[Arashi08]

I always found it funny how the Reapers always claimed to be "Beyond our comprehension." yet if we take the ending at face value it seems like the Reapers have a rather straightforward motive. and if the endings are meant to be taken as literal, then it seems to me that while the Reapers claim to be "independant" and "free of all weakness." apparently a little ghost boy controls them as if they had buttons you could press. the conversations with Harbinger and Sovereign lead the player to believe that the Reapers have their own ideaology, yet it seems to be fed to them by the starkid.

This, for me at least, makes the Reapers seem like either indoctrinated servants themselves, or essentially fanatics devoted to a single ideaology introduced to them by the Catalyst. whether they choose to believe this on their own or are simply made to via programming, the Reapers are pretty much zealous in their devotion to their chosen path as well as their belief of their superiority. fanatics are always among the most dangerous of beings because they have confined their minds within the box of their own certainty. when you think of the Reapers this way they don't seem all that beyond our comprehension.

sorry if this doesn't make sense, I should probably be asleep

[Auralius Carolus]

dreman9999 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I love this. This is spot on.

They are our Gods, our parents, our ancestors, and it is in the nature of children to rebel.

My fuzzy backside!

Whatever they were, they're gone now. What's left can accurately be described as demonic: they seek to control, manipulate, destroy and oppress. They aren't satisfied with taking the body, they want the mind and soul as well.

They deserve our rebellion.

The Reapers aren't evil, they're simply... alien, and so far beyond our understanding as to be incomprehensible.

My question has always been, if the Reapers harvest organic life to bring order to the universe, then why not harvest ALL organic life once and for all? Is it because harvesting is the only purpose of the Reapers? If the Reapers cease to have organic life to harvest do they cease to have purpose, and by extension, cease to exist?

If the Space Brat was telling the truth, the Reapers respect organic life but not in the same way that humans do. They likely see each species as deserving a chance to develop to a certain point, but not beyond. At that point, they remove the dominant beings to give the others a shot. It is a radical notion, but not foreign- certain environmentalist extremists have desired, but never been able to produce, weaponry to remove humanity in the name of "everything else".

Personally, I've equated their "order" as simple control from beings with a god mentality. They allow species to evolve and adapt the Reaper tech in order to show their worth. When the Reapers return, they judge the species- those worthy will be "ascended" to Reaper "Godhood"; those not, will be destroyed or used in whatever way is most expedient.

For one, that concept of the reaper perspective on life was shown in ME2 with the baby reaper and the collectors.
The other parts come from Sovergin and the rennoch reaper.
The truth is the star child never provied anything new to the arguement, he just reused what other reapers have stated.
The next problem is there really is no way to find out if the star kid is telling the truth. Much of what he states counter what was stated and shown before as fact...This normal happen when someone is lieing.
I do agree they think they are trying to help us but I feel they are still not trying to debate with us about it yet.That they are still trying to force us. The reapers are timeless machine, they watched organics for eons, they know how we thing and how to manipulate us.this made clear by the fact they us indoctrination and the mass relay trap..Hech, that ammout of planning it took to make the mass relay trap the way it works for eons is staggering. The fact remain they have the info on organics to debate with us there points, BUT THE FACT REMAIN THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO AND THINK IT'SNOT WORTH DOING. The fact that they invade us to force their belief on organic with out explination every cycle shows this. Even the star kid never give detail info on the reapers reasons....It all vague.....
No really can take what is stated in the end by the star kid as face value...Nor the ending with the level of decite the reaper have been shown to be capible of.
It's in their nature to try and trick organics.

Until the day comes when it is revealed that Space Brat is a deceitful machanism of Harbinger, he will be the target of blame from yours truly. The Rannoch Reaper may have said it first, but the Brat took it to the next level. Stupid glowy kid...

But as I ask before...Is there any proof showning he is telling the truth?

Of course not. All there is, evidence wise, is circumstancial or subjective. Under logical analysis, his basis doesn't hold up given current evidence.

Given the deceitful nature already established with the Reapers, and the fact that the Catalyst's apparence is clearly that of the child that Shepard was, (oddly), emotionally attached to, it is logical to presume dishonesty, (although it is certainly not the only possibility). It's also appropriate for the "Space Demon" anology, as people who report demonic hauntings/possession sometimes claim that these entities will mimic the imagery or voices of loved ones, either to mock or trick by playing on emotion.

[DirtyPhoenix]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Me neither. All I see is a random poll.

I was referring to when you said this: "According to one of the comments, Bioware confirmed Joker is picking up the crew in the extended cut"  I don't remember any of the Bioware staff saying that.
  

I think Jessica Merizan said it on Twitter...

Last I heard any speculations from her it sounded like she saw something pretty cool, and hasn't said much about since. Anyone keeping tabs?

See Bioware is pissing me off.

If Jessica said she saw something cool and it had to do with EC, then that post from earlier today could have been true and Bioware outright lied about it.

Which post from earlier today?

[Rifneno]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Lol for some reason this reminded me of javiks "joke" on James.

Javik is such a pain in the ass. Now we have to photoshop the trollface and add two extra eyes. Damn you, Javik!

byne wrote...

Nah, unless they change the Reapers motivations back to the Dark Energy thing, then they already changed the artistic vision of the original writer, and cannot claim artistic integrity as a defense.

Dark energy thing sucks. I don't want the Reapers painted as good guys for murdering and incomprehensible amount of people.

Domanese wrote...

Umm I have a question. Did anyone go into the data files and have a look at the child's model?

It was a photoshop. He's not really titled Harbinger in there. There are some file names that definitely point to IT, but starkid's is pretty generic. The best legit one I've heard is that the control choice panel is titled something like 'bad choice a'.

EpyonX3 wrote...

1M1 objects are labeled End_Antenna_01

They were used in the ending of ME1 when Shepard was walking on the outside of the Citadel.

Arian Dynas wrote...

The Reapers aren't evil, they're simply... alien, and so far beyond our understanding as to be incomprehensible.

The Reapers are pure evil, plain and simple.

[Hawk227]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...


I think Jessica Merizan said it on Twitter...

Last I heard any speculations from her it sounded like she saw something pretty cool, and hasn't said much about since. Anyone keeping tabs?

See Bioware is pissing me off.

If Jessica said she saw something cool and it had to do with EC, then that post from earlier today could have been true and Bioware outright lied about it.

I just went through a week of her tweets, and didn't see anything. Just her speculating, and then clarifying that she's only speculating.

[EpyonX3]

pirate1802 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Me neither. All I see is a random poll.

I was referring to when you said this: "According to one of the comments, Bioware confirmed Joker is picking up the crew in the extended cut"  I don't remember any of the Bioware staff saying that.
  

I think Jessica Merizan said it on Twitter...

Last I heard any speculations from her it sounded like she saw something pretty cool, and hasn't said much about since. Anyone keeping tabs?

See Bioware is pissing me off.

If Jessica said she saw something cool and it had to do with EC, then that post from earlier today could have been true and Bioware outright lied about it.

Which post from earlier today?

Someone posted a pic of an anonymous user stating that the EC DLC will arrive in may and will feature extended scenes showing thessia, palaven and tuchanka after you make your choices. It also expands the conversation with the catalyst and allows you to challenge him.

Bioware swooped in and denied it fairly quickly and even warned a particular user to stop spamming the pic.

They claimed that there's no way anyone would know that since they haven't even gotten to that stage of developing the DLC. But if this is what Jessica saw, then that kind of puts bioware in a bad position.

[Big G13]

dreman9999 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I love this. This is spot on.

They are our Gods, our parents, our ancestors, and it is in the nature of children to rebel.

My fuzzy backside!

Whatever they were, they're gone now. What's left can accurately be described as demonic: they seek to control, manipulate, destroy and oppress. They aren't satisfied with taking the body, they want the mind and soul as well.

They deserve our rebellion.

The Reapers aren't evil, they're simply... alien, and so far beyond our understanding as to be incomprehensible.

My question has always been, if the Reapers harvest organic life to bring order to the universe, then why not harvest ALL organic life once and for all? Is it because harvesting is the only purpose of the Reapers? If the Reapers cease to have organic life to harvest do they cease to have purpose, and by extension, cease to exist?

If the Space Brat was telling the truth, the Reapers respect organic life but not in the same way that humans do. They likely see each species as deserving a chance to develop to a certain point, but not beyond. At that point, they remove the dominant beings to give the others a shot. It is a radical notion, but not foreign- certain environmentalist extremists have desired, but never been able to produce, weaponry to remove humanity in the name of "everything else".

Personally, I've equated their "order" as simple control from beings with a god mentality. They allow species to evolve and adapt the Reaper tech in order to show their worth. When the Reapers return, they judge the species- those worthy will be "ascended" to Reaper "Godhood"; those not, will be destroyed or used in whatever way is most expedient.

For one, that concept of the reaper perspective on life was shown in ME2 with the baby reaper and the collectors.
The other parts come from Sovergin and the rennoch reaper.
The truth is the star child never provied anything new to the arguement, he just reused what other reapers have stated.
The next problem is there really is no way to find out if the star kid is telling the truth. Much of what he states counter what was stated and shown before as fact...This normal happen when someone is lieing.
I do agree they think they are trying to help us but I feel they are still not trying to debate with us about it yet.That they are still trying to force us. The reapers are timeless machine, they watched organics for eons, they know how we thing and how to manipulate us.this made clear by the fact they us indoctrination and the mass relay trap..Hech, that ammout of planning it took to make the mass relay trap the way it works for eons is staggering. The fact remain they have the info on organics to debate with us there points, BUT THE FACT REMAIN THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO AND THINK IT'SNOT WORTH DOING. The fact that they invade us to force their belief on organic with out explination every cycle shows this. Even the star kid never give detail info on the reapers reasons....It all vague.....
No really can take what is stated in the end by the star kid as face value...Nor the ending with the level of decite the reaper have been shown to be capible of.
It's in their nature to try and trick organics.

O.K., I've been hanging out in this thread for a long time now but I have yet to put anything out there for analysis. Mainly because I am not good at logical analysis. Abstract thought I can handle I just can't do the logic necessary to confirm or deny the abstract. So ... HELP.     When the star child says "the created will always rebel against the creators" my first thought was 'OMG, some how synthetic life came 1st.' It's that whole chicken or the egg debate. I think the Reapers destroy organic life to keep organics from reaching that evolutionary point that they can destroy their creators. I see the Reapers, or the force behind the Reapers, as the Quarians. And organics as the Geth. IMO that is why everything the star child says is one GIANT rationalization. It is trying to justify its actions against its own creation. And to use a religious analogy, the Reapers are like angles who view organic life as little more than meat puppets and are jealous that organics are allowed to exist at all.   I seek logical analysis.

[EpyonX3]

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...


I think Jessica Merizan said it on Twitter...

Last I heard any speculations from her it sounded like she saw something pretty cool, and hasn't said much about since. Anyone keeping tabs?

See Bioware is pissing me off.

If Jessica said she saw something cool and it had to do with EC, then that post from earlier today could have been true and Bioware outright lied about it.

I just went through a week of her tweets, and didn't see anything. Just her speculating, and then clarifying that she's only speculating.

I'm looking through them also. I know about the "Sheps on the Citadel" one. I don't see anything about Joker. What the heck is going on?

[Auralius Carolus]

Rifneno wrote...

The Reapers are pure evil, plain and simple.

Told ya! Even the Honey Badger says they're evil, so it must be true.

They're like Space Communists. Except it isn't class warfare, it's Synth v. Bio warfare.

[Hawk227]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...


I think Jessica Merizan said it on Twitter...

Last I heard any speculations from her it sounded like she saw something pretty cool, and hasn't said much about since. Anyone keeping tabs?

See Bioware is pissing me off.

If Jessica said she saw something cool and it had to do with EC, then that post from earlier today could have been true and Bioware outright lied about it.

I just went through a week of her tweets, and didn't see anything. Just her speculating, and then clarifying that she's only speculating.

I'm looking through them also. I know about the "Sheps on the Citadel" one. I don't see anything about Joker. What the heck is going on?

Nothing is going on. She's a nice lady, and she managed the initial firestorm admirably, but I don't think she's a reliable source of anything. She's been pretty up front that she's not a dev, and she's just talking about her own interpretations (even early on). I think she said something about IT being her head cannon, and directed people to this thread. More so, some of her interpretations have been kind of bizarre. At one point she apparently (I didn't see it) said the Normandy crashed on Earth, and then changed it to Mars.

[dreman9999]

Big G13 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I love this. This is spot on.

They are our Gods, our parents, our ancestors, and it is in the nature of children to rebel.

My fuzzy backside!

Whatever they were, they're gone now. What's left can accurately be described as demonic: they seek to control, manipulate, destroy and oppress. They aren't satisfied with taking the body, they want the mind and soul as well.

They deserve our rebellion.

The Reapers aren't evil, they're simply... alien, and so far beyond our understanding as to be incomprehensible.

My question has always been, if the Reapers harvest organic life to bring order to the universe, then why not harvest ALL organic life once and for all? Is it because harvesting is the only purpose of the Reapers? If the Reapers cease to have organic life to harvest do they cease to have purpose, and by extension, cease to exist?

If the Space Brat was telling the truth, the Reapers respect organic life but not in the same way that humans do. They likely see each species as deserving a chance to develop to a certain point, but not beyond. At that point, they remove the dominant beings to give the others a shot. It is a radical notion, but not foreign- certain environmentalist extremists have desired, but never been able to produce, weaponry to remove humanity in the name of "everything else".

Personally, I've equated their "order" as simple control from beings with a god mentality. They allow species to evolve and adapt the Reaper tech in order to show their worth. When the Reapers return, they judge the species- those worthy will be "ascended" to Reaper "Godhood"; those not, will be destroyed or used in whatever way is most expedient.

For one, that concept of the reaper perspective on life was shown in ME2 with the baby reaper and the collectors.
The other parts come from Sovergin and the rennoch reaper.
The truth is the star child never provied anything new to the arguement, he just reused what other reapers have stated.
The next problem is there really is no way to find out if the star kid is telling the truth. Much of what he states counter what was stated and shown before as fact...This normal happen when someone is lieing.
I do agree they think they are trying to help us but I feel they are still not trying to debate with us about it yet.That they are still trying to force us. The reapers are timeless machine, they watched organics for eons, they know how we thing and how to manipulate us.this made clear by the fact they us indoctrination and the mass relay trap..Hech, that ammout of planning it took to make the mass relay trap the way it works for eons is staggering. The fact remain they have the info on organics to debate with us there points, BUT THE FACT REMAIN THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO AND THINK IT'SNOT WORTH DOING. The fact that they invade us to force their belief on organic with out explination every cycle shows this. Even the star kid never give detail info on the reapers reasons....It all vague.....
No really can take what is stated in the end by the star kid as face value...Nor the ending with the level of decite the reaper have been shown to be capible of.
It's in their nature to try and trick organics.

O.K., I've been hanging out in this thread for a long time now but I have yet to put anything out there for analysis. Mainly because I am not good at logical analysis. Abstract thought I can handle I just can't do the logic necessary to confirm or deny the abstract. So ... HELP.     When the star child says "the created will always rebel against the creators" my first thought was 'OMG, some how synthetic life came 1st.' It's that whole chicken or the egg debate. I think the Reapers destroy organic life to keep organics from reaching that evolutionary point that they can destroy their creators. I see the Reapers, or the force behind the Reapers, as the Quarians. And organics as the Geth. IMO that is why everything the star child says is one GIANT rationalization. It is trying to justify its actions against its own creation. And to use a religious analogy, the Reapers are like angles who view organic life as little more than meat puppets and are jealous that organics are allowed to exist at all.   I seek logical analysis.

....I don't see that at all....The fact remain that that concept is countered by the fact that the reaper use the realys to seek out organic life. We never are given the reaper begining..(Nor do we really need to....They may even come from other galxies for all we know...)

[Auralius Carolus]

Big G13 wrote...

O.K., I've been hanging out in this thread for a long time now but I have yet to put anything out there for analysis. Mainly because I am not good at logical analysis. Abstract thought I can handle I just can't do the logic necessary to confirm or deny the abstract. So ... HELP.     When the star child says "the created will always rebel against the creators" my first thought was 'OMG, some how synthetic life came 1st.' It's that whole chicken or the egg debate. I think the Reapers destroy organic life to keep organics from reaching that evolutionary point that they can destroy their creators. I see the Reapers, or the force behind the Reapers, as the Quarians. And organics as the Geth. IMO that is why everything the star child says is one GIANT rationalization. It is trying to justify its actions against its own creation. And to use a religious analogy, the Reapers are like angles who view organic life as little more than meat puppets and are jealous that organics are allowed to exist at all.   I seek logical analysis.

Not likely their angle, purely based on existing statements. The Space Brat's claim is that they are doing this for biological life, which is threatened by synthetics. He also makes it clear that it isn't a play of words, (i.e. bios being called synthetics), as "biologicals" are "preserved in Reaper form". This refutes this claim.

HOWEVER, the honesty of the Catalyst and the Reapers has been brought into question before. Based on Sovereign's statements, that biological life is a "mutation", an "accident" it may be logically presumed that there is anomosity toward intellegent biological forms. Then there is Harbinger's assertion that "The flesh is a machine." This would infer that biological life was created or an accident and that Reaper's are a way of converting organics into the "true" form.

So, basically, presuming that the Catalyst and Rannoch Reaper are lying, yes it is logical to conclude that something different than biological life came first. What it is, is unknown. The Reapers are likely just the pawns, however. That begs the question- What is the Catalyst truly?

Modifié par Auralius Carolus, 19 avril 2012 - 06:09 .

[dreman9999]

Rifneno wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Lol for some reason this reminded me of javiks "joke" on James.

Javik is such a pain in the ass. Now we have to photoshop the trollface and add two extra eyes. Damn you, Javik!

byne wrote...

Nah, unless they change the Reapers motivations back to the Dark Energy thing, then they already changed the artistic vision of the original writer, and cannot claim artistic integrity as a defense.

Dark energy thing sucks. I don't want the Reapers painted as good guys for murdering and incomprehensible amount of people.

Domanese wrote...

Umm I have a question. Did anyone go into the data files and have a look at the child's model?

It was a photoshop. He's not really titled Harbinger in there. There are some file names that definitely point to IT, but starkid's is pretty generic. The best legit one I've heard is that the control choice panel is titled something like 'bad choice a'.

EpyonX3 wrote...

1M1 objects are labeled End_Antenna_01

They were used in the ending of ME1 when Shepard was walking on the outside of the Citadel.

Arian Dynas wrote...

The Reapers aren't evil, they're simply... alien, and so far beyond our understanding as to be incomprehensible.

The Reapers are pure evil, plain and simple.

About the reapers whether they are good or evil...It's just a case of morality vs moravlity. Their morality is not ours and viseversa. The thing the do they believe are for the greater good over a vast level of time, and with our limited sight and knowlege, we not be able to see it.
Their reason sounded to be no different then the salarian appling the genophague on the krogan or the desisions we chosed in Legion loyalty mission.
The only thing evil about them is the fact that they want to impose their beleif on us no matter what we think.

[Big G13]

dreman9999 wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I love this. This is spot on.

They are our Gods, our parents, our ancestors, and it is in the nature of children to rebel.

My fuzzy backside!

Whatever they were, they're gone now. What's left can accurately be described as demonic: they seek to control, manipulate, destroy and oppress. They aren't satisfied with taking the body, they want the mind and soul as well.

They deserve our rebellion.

The Reapers aren't evil, they're simply... alien, and so far beyond our understanding as to be incomprehensible.

My question has always been, if the Reapers harvest organic life to bring order to the universe, then why not harvest ALL organic life once and for all? Is it because harvesting is the only purpose of the Reapers? If the Reapers cease to have organic life to harvest do they cease to have purpose, and by extension, cease to exist?

If the Space Brat was telling the truth, the Reapers respect organic life but not in the same way that humans do. They likely see each species as deserving a chance to develop to a certain point, but not beyond. At that point, they remove the dominant beings to give the others a shot. It is a radical notion, but not foreign- certain environmentalist extremists have desired, but never been able to produce, weaponry to remove humanity in the name of "everything else".

Personally, I've equated their "order" as simple control from beings with a god mentality. They allow species to evolve and adapt the Reaper tech in order to show their worth. When the Reapers return, they judge the species- those worthy will be "ascended" to Reaper "Godhood"; those not, will be destroyed or used in whatever way is most expedient.

For one, that concept of the reaper perspective on life was shown in ME2 with the baby reaper and the collectors.
The other parts come from Sovergin and the rennoch reaper.
The truth is the star child never provied anything new to the arguement, he just reused what other reapers have stated.
The next problem is there really is no way to find out if the star kid is telling the truth. Much of what he states counter what was stated and shown before as fact...This normal happen when someone is lieing.
I do agree they think they are trying to help us but I feel they are still not trying to debate with us about it yet.That they are still trying to force us. The reapers are timeless machine, they watched organics for eons, they know how we thing and how to manipulate us.this made clear by the fact they us indoctrination and the mass relay trap..Hech, that ammout of planning it took to make the mass relay trap the way it works for eons is staggering. The fact remain they have the info on organics to debate with us there points, BUT THE FACT REMAIN THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO AND THINK IT'SNOT WORTH DOING. The fact that they invade us to force their belief on organic with out explination every cycle shows this. Even the star kid never give detail info on the reapers reasons....It all vague.....
No really can take what is stated in the end by the star kid as face value...Nor the ending with the level of decite the reaper have been shown to be capible of.
It's in their nature to try and trick organics.

O.K., I've been hanging out in this thread for a long time now but I have yet to put anything out there for analysis. Mainly because I am not good at logical analysis. Abstract thought I can handle I just can't do the logic necessary to confirm or deny the abstract. So ... HELP.     When the star child says "the created will always rebel against the creators" my first thought was 'OMG, some how synthetic life came 1st.' It's that whole chicken or the egg debate. I think the Reapers destroy organic life to keep organics from reaching that evolutionary point that they can destroy their creators. I see the Reapers, or the force behind the Reapers, as the Quarians. And organics as the Geth. IMO that is why everything the star child says is one GIANT rationalization. It is trying to justify its actions against its own creation. And to use a religious analogy, the Reapers are like angles who view organic life as little more than meat puppets and are jealous that organics are allowed to exist at all.   I seek logical analysis.

....I don't see that at all....The fact remain that that concept is countered by the fact that the reaper use the realys to seek out organic life. We never are given the reaper begining..(Nor do we really need to....They may even come from other galxies for all we know...)

Or they may come from dark space. Which would make Tali's mission on Hailstrom very troubling to the force behind the Reapers. Understand dark energy, find dark space, destroy the creator.

[Vahilor]

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...


I think Jessica Merizan said it on Twitter...

Last I heard any speculations from her it sounded like she saw something pretty cool, and hasn't said much about since. Anyone keeping tabs?

See Bioware is pissing me off.

If Jessica said she saw something cool and it had to do with EC, then that post from earlier today could have been true and Bioware outright lied about it.

I just went through a week of her tweets, and didn't see anything. Just her speculating, and then clarifying that she's only speculating.

I'm looking through them also. I know about the "Sheps on the Citadel" one. I don't see anything about Joker. What the heck is going on?

Nothing is going on. She's a nice lady, and she managed the initial firestorm admirably, but I don't think she's a reliable source of anything. She's been pretty up front that she's not a dev, and she's just talking about her own interpretations (even early on). I think she said something about IT being her head cannon, and directed people to this thread. More so, some of her interpretations have been kind of bizarre. At one point she apparently (I didn't see it) said the Normandy crashed on Earth, and then changed it to Mars.

Agree.
She only makes her own interpretations the most time. She even says somwhere that her tweets only show her own interpretation of ME3.
Hey she even said that EDI has no Reaper tech... so I would not take anything she sais as a face value.

[Auralius Carolus]

Big G13 wrote...

O.K., I've been hanging out in this thread for a long time now but I have yet to put anything out there for analysis. Mainly because I am not good at logical analysis. Abstract thought I can handle I just can't do the logic necessary to confirm or deny the abstract. So ... HELP.     When the star child says "the created will always rebel against the creators" my first thought was 'OMG, some how synthetic life came 1st.' It's that whole chicken or the egg debate. I think the Reapers destroy organic life to keep organics from reaching that evolutionary point that they can destroy their creators. I see the Reapers, or the force behind the Reapers, as the Quarians. And organics as the Geth. IMO that is why everything the star child says is one GIANT rationalization. It is trying to justify its actions against its own creation. And to use a religious analogy, the Reapers are like angles who view organic life as little more than meat puppets and are jealous that organics are allowed to exist at all.   I seek logical analysis.

www.youtube.com/watch - "Flesh is a Machine" "You are vermin"

www.youtube.com/watch - "Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation- an accident"

The question is, when Sovereign refers to "my kind" is discussing a past species or something that came before.

This all, over course, is subject to perspective, which the Reapers seem to hold themselves highly in.

Modifié par Auralius Carolus, 19 avril 2012 - 06:38 .

[Big G13]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

O.K., I've been hanging out in this thread for a long time now but I have yet to put anything out there for analysis. Mainly because I am not good at logical analysis. Abstract thought I can handle I just can't do the logic necessary to confirm or deny the abstract. So ... HELP.     When the star child says "the created will always rebel against the creators" my first thought was 'OMG, some how synthetic life came 1st.' It's that whole chicken or the egg debate. I think the Reapers destroy organic life to keep organics from reaching that evolutionary point that they can destroy their creators. I see the Reapers, or the force behind the Reapers, as the Quarians. And organics as the Geth. IMO that is why everything the star child says is one GIANT rationalization. It is trying to justify its actions against its own creation. And to use a religious analogy, the Reapers are like angles who view organic life as little more than meat puppets and are jealous that organics are allowed to exist at all.   I seek logical analysis.

Not likely their angle, purely based on existing statements. The Space Brat's claim is that they are doing this for biological life, which is threatened by synthetics. He also makes it clear that it isn't a play of words, (i.e. bios being called synthetics), as "biologicals" are "preserved in Reaper form". This refutes this claim.

HOWEVER, the honesty of the Catalyst and the Reapers has been brought into question before. Based on Sovereign's statements, that biological life is a "mutation", an "accident" it may be logically presumed that there is anomosity toward intellegent biological forms. Then there is Harbinger's assertion that "The flesh is a machine." This would infer that biological life was created or an accident and that Reaper's are a way of converting organics into the "true" form.

So, basically, presuming that the Catalyst and Rannoch Reaper are lying, yes it is logical to conclude that something different than biological life came first. What it is, is unknown. The Reapers are likely just the pawns, however. That begs the question- What is the Catalyst truly?

Thanks for sniping that wall, I always mess things up somehow when I try.   It also begs the question - What is his motivation truly? Did he see what Shep  did to bring the Quarians and the Geth together? Is that why Harbinger left at the most opportune time to kill him/her? Because he was told to? Is the hallucination an attempt to get Shep to quantify  the star brats rationalizations? "you have hope. more than you know" I mean, who really holds the power here?

[Rifneno]

dreman9999 wrote...

About the reapers whether they are good or evil...It's just a case of morality vs moravlity. Their morality is not ours and viseversa. The thing the do they believe are for the greater good over a vast level of time, and with our limited sight and knowlege, we not be able to see it.
Their reason sounded to be no different then the salarian appling the genophague on the krogan or the desisions we chosed in Legion loyalty mission.
The only thing evil about them is the fact that they want to impose their beleif on us no matter what we think.

Please. You might as well claim good and evil don't exist if you try to say a group that's murdered quintillions of people aren't evil because their morality isn't the same as ours. I'd invoke Godwin's Law, but honestly, comparing the Reapers to the ****s isn't fair to the frickin' ****s. And the Reapers don't "just" commit galactic genocide, they actively use psychological warfare to mentally torture, terrify, horrify, and break their victims.

I'm not going to get into the genophage debate because it will deteriorate into a discussion about a very controversial real life topic with similar basic moral dilemmas (if anyone isn't sure what I mean, it starts with an "a"). As for the heretic geth, it's not even remotely the same. The heretic geth were enemy combatants by their own choosing. They made the decision to help the Reapers murder everyone. They are not innocent victims and no one used mental torture on them.

Evil does exist and the Reapers are it. Just because a culture is different does not preclude it from being wrong.

[Big G13]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

O.K., I've been hanging out in this thread for a long time now but I have yet to put anything out there for analysis. Mainly because I am not good at logical analysis. Abstract thought I can handle I just can't do the logic necessary to confirm or deny the abstract. So ... HELP.     When the star child says "the created will always rebel against the creators" my first thought was 'OMG, some how synthetic life came 1st.' It's that whole chicken or the egg debate. I think the Reapers destroy organic life to keep organics from reaching that evolutionary point that they can destroy their creators. I see the Reapers, or the force behind the Reapers, as the Quarians. And organics as the Geth. IMO that is why everything the star child says is one GIANT rationalization. It is trying to justify its actions against its own creation. And to use a religious analogy, the Reapers are like angles who view organic life as little more than meat puppets and are jealous that organics are allowed to exist at all.   I seek logical analysis.

www.youtube.com/watch - "Flesh is a Machine" "You are vermin"

www.youtube.com/watch - "Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation- an accident"

The question is, when Sovereign refers to "my kind" is discussing a past species or something that came before.

This all, over course, is subject to perspective, which the Reapers seem to hold themselves highly in.

"We are the beginning. You are the end." The end of what? The Reapers? The creator? Understand, I've been hanging on to this for a while, so, I'm pretty much wedded to it. I'm not trying to change any minds. I just really appreciate the input.

[Auralius Carolus]

Big G13 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

O.K., I've been hanging out in this thread for a long time now but I have yet to put anything out there for analysis. Mainly because I am not good at logical analysis. Abstract thought I can handle I just can't do the logic necessary to confirm or deny the abstract. So ... HELP.     When the star child says "the created will always rebel against the creators" my first thought was 'OMG, some how synthetic life came 1st.' It's that whole chicken or the egg debate. I think the Reapers destroy organic life to keep organics from reaching that evolutionary point that they can destroy their creators. I see the Reapers, or the force behind the Reapers, as the Quarians. And organics as the Geth. IMO that is why everything the star child says is one GIANT rationalization. It is trying to justify its actions against its own creation. And to use a religious analogy, the Reapers are like angles who view organic life as little more than meat puppets and are jealous that organics are allowed to exist at all.   I seek logical analysis.

www.youtube.com/watch - "Flesh is a Machine" "You are vermin"

www.youtube.com/watch - "Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation- an accident"

The question is, when Sovereign refers to "my kind" is discussing a past species or something that came before.

This all, over course, is subject to perspective, which the Reapers seem to hold themselves highly in.

"We are the beginning. You are the end." The end of what? The Reapers? The creator? Understand, I've been hanging on to this for a while, so, I'm pretty much wedded to it. I'm not trying to change any minds. I just really appreciate the input.

I altered the links for better timing.

The "end" could simply be the result of a superiority complex. Or it could be refering to organics as a stage or ingredient.

This, of course, hints that understanding the "beginning" is required to validate the "end". We simply don't know "what" was first. It's clear that, at least certain things, cannot be taken literally or seriously- for instance, the claim that Reapers have no beginning. We know that they do and we know, basically, how they are created. So, about the only way to get honest answers is to inspect them manually.

But that still won't answer how they came about. If organics didn't ascend themselves into Reaper form and begin the cycles, then what did? Was it a machine? Was it something else? Did it create machines before organics? Did it create organics at all or was that truly an unexpected event? Is the Catalyst truly that which created the Reapers? How did it manage it?

There's a HUGE can of worms there, enough to easily fill several more games in the most complex of scenarios.

[Spartas Husky]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

http://dwebart.devia...y-Map-171746404 

That doesn't really answer it . Thank you though. Is 2 years old. So wee bit outdated.

http://www.g4tv.com/...s-and-upgrades/
Khar'shan is in Kite's Nest , which is Galactic East of our local cluster. Humans settled space moving East and eventually met Battarians in the systems around Kite's Nest.

By the way, I made a mistake saying the Ismar Frontier is Galactic East.
It's actually Galactic West and Galactic Northwest of our Local
Cluster.

Ah thank you very much...

if I had to guess... wild guess here so dont quote me on it. I would surmise in the near by and long term future that the volus wont be the only client race to be found.

I think it would be better as the batarians as client race. That way we can influence their horrible slave practice out of their systems. ANd if not we can always exile them back to their homeworld as a DMZ. Like the krogan. Give em I duno... 2 thousand years to think about slavery.

[Big G13]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

O.K., I've been hanging out in this thread for a long time now but I have yet to put anything out there for analysis. Mainly because I am not good at logical analysis. Abstract thought I can handle I just can't do the logic necessary to confirm or deny the abstract. So ... HELP.     When the star child says "the created will always rebel against the creators" my first thought was 'OMG, some how synthetic life came 1st.' It's that whole chicken or the egg debate. I think the Reapers destroy organic life to keep organics from reaching that evolutionary point that they can destroy their creators. I see the Reapers, or the force behind the Reapers, as the Quarians. And organics as the Geth. IMO that is why everything the star child says is one GIANT rationalization. It is trying to justify its actions against its own creation. And to use a religious analogy, the Reapers are like angles who view organic life as little more than meat puppets and are jealous that organics are allowed to exist at all.   I seek logical analysis.

www.youtube.com/watch - "Flesh is a Machine" "You are vermin"

www.youtube.com/watch - "Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation- an accident"

The question is, when Sovereign refers to "my kind" is discussing a past species or something that came before.

This all, over course, is subject to perspective, which the Reapers seem to hold themselves highly in.

"We are the beginning. You are the end." The end of what? The Reapers? The creator? Understand, I've been hanging on to this for a while, so, I'm pretty much wedded to it. I'm not trying to change any minds. I just really appreciate the input.

I altered the links for better timing.

The "end" could simply be the result of a superiority complex. Or it could be refering to organics as a stage or ingredient.

This, of course, hints that understanding the "beginning" is required to validate the "end". We simply don't know "what" was first. It's clear that, at least certain things, cannot be taken literally or seriously- for instance, the claim that Reapers have no beginning. We know that they do and we know, basically, how they are created. So, about the only way to get honest answers is to inspect them manually.

But that still won't answer how they came about. If organics didn't ascend themselves into Reaper form and begin the cycles, then what did? Was it a machine? Was it something else? Did it create machines before organics? Did it create organics at all or was that truly an unexpected event? Is the Catalyst truly that which created the Reapers? How did it manage it?

There's a HUGE can of worms there, enough to easily fill several more games in the most complex of scenarios.

YES. And that's another reason the end is so disappointing. It's not like they didn't have a thousand ways to give a conclusive ending and still continue the franchise for another 5 or 10 games. If I can think of something I'm sure they can. I mean, it's there job, right.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Hey people, the one thing that seemed very very odd to me was the Purgatory on Citadel. You can visit it and all, but when you ask the Avina VI about it, she responds she has no knowledge of any such bar on Citadel???

I'm not suggesting it is related to IT or something, but why whould they put it there unless they intend to? Certainly doesnt seem to be the case of "Lazy Bioware" either. Could it be that the devs wanted to indicate that VIs are not infaalliable, thereby explaining why the Prothean VI didn't detect Shepard's indoctrination?

Modifié par pirate1802, 19 avril 2012 - 07:27 .