57139 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

captainbob8383 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Most people point out that making synthetics to kill everyone so they won't wind up getting killed by synthetics is brainmeltingly retarded. And they're right, it is, but starprick's foul mockery of logic goes far deeper than that. For instance the two other biggest problems with it IMO are:

The starchild's logic makes perfect sense if you actually listen to what he explicitly states. The Reapers do not kill every organic lifeform but only ADVANCED ENOUGH civilizations. This means that the galaxy with 12 simple civs + 4 advanced civs (a total of 16 civs) is left with 12 simple civs (a total of 12 civs) after the purge to develop for the next Reaper invasion.

It still makes no sense at all.
If the starChild's goal is to protect organic life from synthetics, then the most obvious solution is to tell Reapers to kill synthetics, not evolved organics.
Reapers could stay in the galaxy, act as protectors and kill dangerous synthetics.That's all.
Starchild logic makes zero sense.

What you are talking about is morality, not logic.

[SS2Dante]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Also, about the vent warning sticker. We'll be very hard pressed to find it anywhere else in the game. So far, this is the only vent I've seen throughout my play through. No vents on the citadel, the Normandy, sanctuary and even TIM's base.

There are plenty of other warning signs and stickers pertaining to risk of electric shock or other dangers but they're not around vents.

Yeah, I saw the electrical warning a bunch on the Normandy but nothing like that.

Also, I don't know why it didn't strike me as weird until afterwards. An electrified vent? What possible reason could a vent be electrified for? :S I've never heard of an electrical vent in my life, never mind one at ground level with no cover.

[UrgedDuke]

plz trim if you're going to quote a ridiculously long post

[SS2Dante]

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Oh, by the way, for any of you who missed it yesterday we found out the cubemaps (textures used for reflections) of the crucible room are RINGED WITH TREES. They're very 2d and pixelated, but it's a cubemap. We aren't a hundred percent sure if they are actually in the game. I played yesterday to check and I'm pretty sure they are, but I'll need others to confirm and/or screenshot.

For those checking - the only angle I could find where you can see the trees are when you are facing the control slope. It's reflected off that. If you stay on the left of the slope you can see one big tree on the left and a smaller one on the right.

Can we safely say we've linked the planet your crew crashlands on as an amagamation of Zorya/Aiea/Vermire too?
I'd go back to get the pics but i don't know what page they're on.

Well, all we're sure about is that it's extremely similar to Zorya, we don't have anything but speculation about the other planets.

I'm just throwing the other two in because others believe it could be an amalgamation like the Citadel is at the end. I think it's most probably Zorya. The Blue Suns would have left behind colony resources and shelter even if you messed up their place in Zaeed's mission so arguably your crew could stay there.

I agree. Just making clear to people the difference between our fact based claims (Zorya) and our theory based ones (amalgamation).

[Vahilor]

@paxxton: no it makes no sense cause he sais he kills organics so they don't invent synthetics that kill organics and what dies starbrat do ? It
Kills organics with synthetics and states that synthetics allways will kill organics. But if you look at the geth and edi that statment is totaly wrong and has no logic at all.

[Sammuthegreat]

SS2Dante wrote...

captainbob8383 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Most people point out that making synthetics to kill everyone so they won't wind up getting killed by synthetics is brainmeltingly retarded. And they're right, it is, but starprick's foul mockery of logic goes far deeper than that. For instance the two other biggest problems with it IMO are:

The starchild's logic makes perfect sense if you actually listen to what he explicitly states. The Reapers do not kill every organic lifeform but only ADVANCED ENOUGH civilizations. This means that the galaxy with 12 simple civs + 4 advanced civs (a total of 16 civs) is left with 12 simple civs (a total of 12 civs) after the purge to develop for the next Reaper invasion.

It still makes no sense at all.
If the starChild's goal is to protect organic life from synthetics, then the most obvious solution is to tell Reapers to kill synthetics, not evolved organics.
Reapers could stay in the galaxy, act as protectors and kill dangerous synthetics.That's all.
Starchild logic makes zero sense.

But that reveals the Reapers existence to organics. Organics will not agree to the Reapers goals, so they'd be forced to fight either way. The Reapers way insures minimal casualties.

That assumes that none of the "non-advanced" or synthetic races will care that the advanced organics are being wiped out. You'd think they might join in the fight against the arbitrary, mysterious machine race that just turned up with the express goal of wiping out all advanced races.

[EpyonX3]

SS2Dante wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Oh, by the way, for any of you who missed it yesterday we found out the cubemaps (textures used for reflections) of the crucible room are RINGED WITH TREES. They're very 2d and pixelated, but it's a cubemap. We aren't a hundred percent sure if they are actually in the game. I played yesterday to check and I'm pretty sure they are, but I'll need others to confirm and/or screenshot.

For those checking - the only angle I could find where you can see the trees are when you are facing the control slope. It's reflected off that. If you stay on the left of the slope you can see one big tree on the left and a smaller one on the right.

Those trees are not in that level. Perhaps it was from an earlier design of the place?

Did you check (the reflections I mean, not actually the level, because if it's not the trees I'm seeing on the control slope I have no idea what it's meant to be:S)? And also, it was you who brought them up, so you tell me

Also, the area you wake up in in the crucible bit. On your left and right on the ground is an electrical duct with another human designation. The only other place I've found that duct is on the normandy (engineering and the cockpit). Could be on other places, you're the whizz at finding this stuff

And again also that same bit you wake up on appears to be the same circular platform you were on while talking to TIM and Anderson (except smaller, obviously).

EDIT - awful spelling

Yeah I checked. The trees I thought were loaded in that level were not there. I most have mixed the files up when I was going through them, it was like 1 AM here when I was going through them, so sorry about the mix up. I don't know why the trees are there on the cubemap. The way everything looks on it seems out of place when compared to the actual level.

I'll take a look at the landing area again and compare. But what we can deduce is that since we're now part of an intergalactic government, it's likely that there are standards to warning labels that all races can understand.

This still doesn't account for the buildings having human numbers. But I think it's just part of the game so that players aren't confused. Think about it, how is it that every single creature you come across speaks perfect english?

[SS2Dante]

Vahilor wrote...

@paxxton: no it makes no sense cause he sais he kills organics so they don't invent synthetics that kill organics and what dies starbrat do ? It
Kills organics with synthetics and states that synthetics allways will kill organics. But if you look at the geth and edi that statment is totaly wrong and has no logic at all.

One example that breaks the pattern isn't proof of anything. We know for a fact that countless organic/synthetic wars have happened in the cycles. The risk is too high.

[lex0r11]

Big G13 wrote...

Lex0r11 my friend, Send in Liara please.

Nah, that won't be necessary for now. They know better than that.

[Nauks]

paxxton wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Most people point out that making synthetics to kill everyone so they won't wind up getting killed by synthetics is brainmeltingly retarded. And they're right, it is, but starprick's foul mockery of logic goes far deeper than that. For instance the two other biggest problems with it IMO are:

The starchild's logic makes perfect sense if you actually listen to what he explicitly states. The Reapers do not kill every organic lifeform but only ADVANCED ENOUGH civilizations. This means that the galaxy with 12 simple civs + 4 advanced civs (a total of 16 civs) is left with 12 simple civs (a total of 12 civs) after the purge to develop for the next Reaper invasion.

Yes, we all know that the Reapers merely hit the reset button on advanced life, the point was about the theoretical synthetics the Reapers are protecting us from, and Starbrat's predictions.

[RaidShock]

EpyonX3 wrote...

This still doesn't account for the buildings having human numbers. But I think it's just part of the game so that players aren't confused. Think about it, how is it that every single creature you come across speaks perfect english?

Imbedded translators updated on the fly is what the codex says. 

[Sammuthegreat]

paxxton wrote...

captainbob8383 wrote...

It still makes no sense at all.
If the starChild's goal is to protect organic life from synthetics, then the most obvious solution is to tell Reapers to kill synthetics, not evolved organics.
Reapers could stay in the galaxy, act as protectors and kill dangerous synthetics.That's all.
Starchild logic makes zero sense.

What you are talking about is morality, not logic.

That's not even remotely true. It's perfectly logical that the reapers would have a far easier time of things if they just stepped in and killed the dangerous synthetics, instead of waiting around for 50000 years on the off-chance that some organics would create dangerous synthetics, while remaining silent and unknown all that time - which of course means that the organics will react badly when the Evil Squids of Death suddenly turn up out of the blue and start killing them.

Killing the dangerous synthetics when they appear cuts out the middle man, minimalises the reapers' own casualties and removes chance from the equation (i.e. the chance that organics won't have created dangerous synthetics by the time the reapers are ready to come a-culling).

Nah, I think it's safe to say that whatever the reapers' motives are, it isn't what StarBrat said. I for one would be happier if BioWare didn't give a reason than if they came up with something stupid.

[EpyonX3]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

captainbob8383 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Most people point out that making synthetics to kill everyone so they won't wind up getting killed by synthetics is brainmeltingly retarded. And they're right, it is, but starprick's foul mockery of logic goes far deeper than that. For instance the two other biggest problems with it IMO are:

The starchild's logic makes perfect sense if you actually listen to what he explicitly states. The Reapers do not kill every organic lifeform but only ADVANCED ENOUGH civilizations. This means that the galaxy with 12 simple civs + 4 advanced civs (a total of 16 civs) is left with 12 simple civs (a total of 12 civs) after the purge to develop for the next Reaper invasion.

It still makes no sense at all.
If the starChild's goal is to protect organic life from synthetics, then the most obvious solution is to tell Reapers to kill synthetics, not evolved organics.
Reapers could stay in the galaxy, act as protectors and kill dangerous synthetics.That's all.
Starchild logic makes zero sense.

But that reveals the Reapers existence to organics. Organics will not agree to the Reapers goals, so they'd be forced to fight either way. The Reapers way insures minimal casualties.

That assumes that none of the "non-advanced" or synthetic races will care that the advanced organics are being wiped out. You'd think they might join in the fight against the arbitrary, mysterious machine race that just turned up with the express goal of wiping out all advanced races.

Then you run the risk of people trying to take advantage of reapers, developing reaper clones through reverse engineering or trying to control them.

Then they'll be policing the galaxy, stopping anything that may be synthetic from being made. That would hinder technological progress exponentially and the reapers would gain nothing from it.

[SS2Dante]

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Oh, by the way, for any of you who missed it yesterday we found out the cubemaps (textures used for reflections) of the crucible room are RINGED WITH TREES. They're very 2d and pixelated, but it's a cubemap. We aren't a hundred percent sure if they are actually in the game. I played yesterday to check and I'm pretty sure they are, but I'll need others to confirm and/or screenshot.

For those checking - the only angle I could find where you can see the trees are when you are facing the control slope. It's reflected off that. If you stay on the left of the slope you can see one big tree on the left and a smaller one on the right.

Those trees are not in that level. Perhaps it was from an earlier design of the place?

Did you check (the reflections I mean, not actually the level, because if it's not the trees I'm seeing on the control slope I have no idea what it's meant to be:S)? And also, it was you who brought them up, so you tell me

Also, the area you wake up in in the crucible bit. On your left and right on the ground is an electrical duct with another human designation. The only other place I've found that duct is on the normandy (engineering and the cockpit). Could be on other places, you're the whizz at finding this stuff

And again also that same bit you wake up on appears to be the same circular platform you were on while talking to TIM and Anderson (except smaller, obviously).

EDIT - awful spelling

Yeah I checked. The trees I thought were loaded in that level were not there. I most have mixed the files up when I was going through them, it was like 1 AM here when I was going through them, so sorry about the mix up. I don't know why the trees are there on the cubemap. The way everything looks on it seems out of place when compared to the actual level.

I'll take a look at the landing area again and compare. But what we can deduce is that since we're now part of an intergalactic government, it's likely that there are standards to warning labels that all races can understand.

This still doesn't account for the buildings having human numbers. But I think it's just part of the game so that players aren't confused. Think about it, how is it that every single creature you come across speaks perfect english?

Odd. I suppose I'll double check what I can see (man wish I could take screenshots :@)

And agreed. It's just that it's actually written on the casing and is clearly the same piece of machinery on the normandy (don't get me wrong, it's just a standard machine style texture, I'm just pointing out the oddity of reusing all this stuff).

You know, I can never tell if I respect or get annoyed by sci fi when they do this. Usually it's a weak explanation (babelfish ) but it's still nice to have one  Poooossibly (weak but possible) the rapid expansion of alliance forces has made earth language the dominant (or at least most commonly understood) language. (have you looked at earth space? We own like a third of the galaxy, no wonder the other races hate us :S )

Modifié par SS2Dante, 20 avril 2012 - 03:07 .

[Vahilor]

SS2Dante wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

@paxxton: no it makes no sense cause he sais he kills organics so they don't invent synthetics that kill organics and what dies starbrat do ? It
Kills organics with synthetics and states that synthetics allways will kill organics. But if you look at the geth and edi that statment is totaly wrong and has no logic at all.

One example that breaks the pattern isn't proof of anything. We know for a fact that countless organic/synthetic wars have happened in the cycles. The risk is too high.

Yaeh but only cause the reapers are the synthetics allways begining most cruel war and killing whole civilisatipn never giving them a chance. Fore it id no logic more the fact the reapers want no one to outdo them.  And if they really want to protect there would be a lot of other ways. 

[EpyonX3]

RaidShock wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

This still doesn't account for the buildings having human numbers. But I think it's just part of the game so that players aren't confused. Think about it, how is it that every single creature you come across speaks perfect english?

Imbedded translators updated on the fly is what the codex says. 

Damn it! I always miss things from the codex. What are they embedded into?

[SS2Dante]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

paxxton wrote...

captainbob8383 wrote...

It still makes no sense at all.
If the starChild's goal is to protect organic life from synthetics, then the most obvious solution is to tell Reapers to kill synthetics, not evolved organics.
Reapers could stay in the galaxy, act as protectors and kill dangerous synthetics.That's all.
Starchild logic makes zero sense.

What you are talking about is morality, not logic.

That's not even remotely true. It's perfectly logical that the reapers would have a far easier time of things if they just stepped in and killed the dangerous synthetics, instead of waiting around for 50000 years on the off-chance that some organics would create dangerous synthetics, while remaining silent and unknown all that time - which of course means that the organics will react badly when the Evil Squids of Death suddenly turn up out of the blue and start killing them.

Killing the dangerous synthetics when they appear cuts out the middle man, minimalises the reapers' own casualties and removes chance from the equation (i.e. the chance that organics won't have created dangerous synthetics by the time the reapers are ready to come a-culling).

Nah, I think it's safe to say that whatever the reapers' motives are, it isn't what StarBrat said. I for one would be happier if BioWare didn't give a reason than if they came up with something stupid.

As we pointed out, killing only the synthetics would make advanced organics aware of the Reapers, which creates an immense threat/burden. See Epyons answer to this

[Sammuthegreat]

EpyonX3 wrote...

RaidShock wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

This still doesn't account for the buildings having human numbers. But I think it's just part of the game so that players aren't confused. Think about it, how is it that every single creature you come across speaks perfect english?

Imbedded translators updated on the fly is what the codex says. 

Damn it! I always miss things from the codex. What are they embedded into?

Emergency Translation Ports.

[SS2Dante]

EpyonX3 wrote...

RaidShock wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

This still doesn't account for the buildings having human numbers. But I think it's just part of the game so that players aren't confused. Think about it, how is it that every single creature you come across speaks perfect english?

Imbedded translators updated on the fly is what the codex says. 

Damn it! I always miss things from the codex. What are they embedded into?

Yaaaay that'll do me

Embedded into our braaaaiiiiins.

...actually, that's probably true.

[EpyonX3]

SS2Dante wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Oh, by the way, for any of you who missed it yesterday we found out the cubemaps (textures used for reflections) of the crucible room are RINGED WITH TREES. They're very 2d and pixelated, but it's a cubemap. We aren't a hundred percent sure if they are actually in the game. I played yesterday to check and I'm pretty sure they are, but I'll need others to confirm and/or screenshot.

For those checking - the only angle I could find where you can see the trees are when you are facing the control slope. It's reflected off that. If you stay on the left of the slope you can see one big tree on the left and a smaller one on the right.

Those trees are not in that level. Perhaps it was from an earlier design of the place?

Did you check (the reflections I mean, not actually the level, because if it's not the trees I'm seeing on the control slope I have no idea what it's meant to be:S)? And also, it was you who brought them up, so you tell me

Also, the area you wake up in in the crucible bit. On your left and right on the ground is an electrical duct with another human designation. The only other place I've found that duct is on the normandy (engineering and the cockpit). Could be on other places, you're the whizz at finding this stuff

And again also that same bit you wake up on appears to be the same circular platform you were on while talking to TIM and Anderson (except smaller, obviously).

EDIT - awful spelling

Yeah I checked. The trees I thought were loaded in that level were not there. I most have mixed the files up when I was going through them, it was like 1 AM here when I was going through them, so sorry about the mix up. I don't know why the trees are there on the cubemap. The way everything looks on it seems out of place when compared to the actual level.

I'll take a look at the landing area again and compare. But what we can deduce is that since we're now part of an intergalactic government, it's likely that there are standards to warning labels that all races can understand.

This still doesn't account for the buildings having human numbers. But I think it's just part of the game so that players aren't confused. Think about it, how is it that every single creature you come across speaks perfect english?

Odd. I suppose I'll double check what I can see (man wish I could take screenshots :@)

And agreed. It's just that it's actually written on the casing and is clearly the same piece of machinery on the normandy (don't get me wrong, it's just a standard machine style texture, I'm just pointing out the oddity of reusing all this stuff).

You know, I can never tell if I respect or get annoyed by sci fi when they do this. Usually it's a weak explanation (babelfish ) but it's still nice to have one  Poooossibly (weak but possible) the rapid expansion of alliance forces has made earth language the dominant (or at least most commonly understood) language. (have you looked at earth space? We own like a third of the galaxy, no wonder the other races hate us :S )

Apparent;y there are embeded(into what IDK) translators that do it. I can't see other races learning english with the kind of physiology they have. Certain letter would be problematic for a turian or a krogan.

[EpyonX3]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

RaidShock wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

This still doesn't account for the buildings having human numbers. But I think it's just part of the game so that players aren't confused. Think about it, how is it that every single creature you come across speaks perfect english?

Imbedded translators updated on the fly is what the codex says. 

Damn it! I always miss things from the codex. What are they embedded into?

Emergency Translation Ports.

WIN!

[SS2Dante]

Vahilor wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

@paxxton: no it makes no sense cause he sais he kills organics so they don't invent synthetics that kill organics and what dies starbrat do ? It
Kills organics with synthetics and states that synthetics allways will kill organics. But if you look at the geth and edi that statment is totaly wrong and has no logic at all.

One example that breaks the pattern isn't proof of anything. We know for a fact that countless organic/synthetic wars have happened in the cycles. The risk is too high.

Yaeh but only cause the reapers are the synthetics allways begining most cruel war and killing whole civilisatipn never giving them a chance. Fore it id no logic more the fact the reapers want no one to outdo them.  And if they really want to protect there would be a lot of other ways. 

No, the tech rebellions usually happen before the Reapers invade (the geth are an example, and Javik says something similar happened to them). 

I can see no other ways for them to do it that don't include major risk. This cycle system is almost risk free, the only reason it failed this time is because the Protheans managed to be awesome. And even then it takes the hero of a game to get it fixed.

[SS2Dante]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

captainbob8383 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Most people point out that making synthetics to kill everyone so they won't wind up getting killed by synthetics is brainmeltingly retarded. And they're right, it is, but starprick's foul mockery of logic goes far deeper than that. For instance the two other biggest problems with it IMO are:

The starchild's logic makes perfect sense if you actually listen to what he explicitly states. The Reapers do not kill every organic lifeform but only ADVANCED ENOUGH civilizations. This means that the galaxy with 12 simple civs + 4 advanced civs (a total of 16 civs) is left with 12 simple civs (a total of 12 civs) after the purge to develop for the next Reaper invasion.

It still makes no sense at all.
If the starChild's goal is to protect organic life from synthetics, then the most obvious solution is to tell Reapers to kill synthetics, not evolved organics.
Reapers could stay in the galaxy, act as protectors and kill dangerous synthetics.That's all.
Starchild logic makes zero sense.

But that reveals the Reapers existence to organics. Organics will not agree to the Reapers goals, so they'd be forced to fight either way. The Reapers way insures minimal casualties.

That assumes that none of the "non-advanced" or synthetic races will care that the advanced organics are being wiped out. You'd think they might join in the fight against the arbitrary, mysterious machine race that just turned up with the express goal of wiping out all advanced races.

Then you run the risk of people trying to take advantage of reapers, developing reaper clones through reverse engineering or trying to control them.

Then they'll be policing the galaxy, stopping anything that may be synthetic from being made. That would hinder technological progress exponentially and the reapers would gain nothing from it.

Not true; they'd gain a bunch of organics wanting to kill them

[Mondamor]

Sorry for the interruption
I have a question: Has anyone figured out which planet the Normandy crashed on?
With 2 very close Moons(Planets?), oxygen/breatheble air, djungle? Is there a correspondig one in the codex/galaxy map?
just curiuos
cheers

[llbountyhunter]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

captainbob8383 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Most people point out that making synthetics to kill everyone so they won't wind up getting killed by synthetics is brainmeltingly retarded. And they're right, it is, but starprick's foul mockery of logic goes far deeper than that. For instance the two other biggest problems with it IMO are:

The starchild's logic makes perfect sense if you actually listen to what he explicitly states. The Reapers do not kill every organic lifeform but only ADVANCED ENOUGH civilizations. This means that the galaxy with 12 simple civs + 4 advanced civs (a total of 16 civs) is left with 12 simple civs (a total of 12 civs) after the purge to develop for the next Reaper invasion.

It still makes no sense at all.
If the starChild's goal is to protect organic life from synthetics, then the most obvious solution is to tell Reapers to kill synthetics, not evolved organics.
Reapers could stay in the galaxy, act as protectors and kill dangerous synthetics.That's all.
Starchild logic makes zero sense.

But that reveals the Reapers existence to organics. Organics will not agree to the Reapers goals, so they'd be forced to fight either way. The Reapers way insures minimal casualties.

That assumes that none of the "non-advanced" or synthetic races will care that the advanced organics are being wiped out. You'd think they might join in the fight against the arbitrary, mysterious machine race that just turned up with the express goal of wiping out all advanced races.

Then you run the risk of people trying to take advantage of reapers, developing reaper clones through reverse engineering or trying to control them.

Then they'll be policing the galaxy, stopping anything that may be synthetic from being made. That would hinder technological progress exponentially and the reapers would gain nothing from it.

No one has been able to reverse engineer the keepers. They self destruct automatically .... in the book it says that all attempts have failed.