57139 réponses à ce sujet

[llbountyhunter]

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...


*shrug* enslavement with brainwashing. I'd draw a parallel to religion but I don't wanna start a big argument P

Also, if you're a Reaper you're not "enslaving" them. You're making them better than they were, showing them a higher state of existence. Making them happier than they ever could have been as a mere human/krogan/blueskinnedhotalienchick

No offence but you sound like a fully indoctrinated Saren right now.

People are saying they think the starchilds logic is false. I'm pointing out that since we do not think like them, their priorities are compltely different. I don't AGREE with them, but I can understand where they get their logic from. Different beings, different priorities. People are calling them stupid without thinking about it.

So how can you argue FOR it if you aren't supposed to understand it yourself?

[byne]

SS2Dante wrote...


They do, no arguing that. However, generally speaking, it's an even fight. The problem with synthetic versus organic is that synthetic will probably win, especially if the split happens fast.

Is that why when it looked like the quarians were going to win against the geth, the Reapers stepped in to try and make sure that didnt happen?

[Rosewind]

Baldsake wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Hmmm you know the end jungle survivor scene and how it looks like Zorya? Is Zorya the one where overlord takes place and has the two moons? If so I always thought it was weird the hammerhead on board VI mentions to take note of the scenery,I just always wondered why would they put it in not like we cared but it is a nice view.

to me it looks like the jacob loyalty mission planet.. it also has 2 moons and looks like a paradise pretty much.

Hmmm I just still find it odd that it is blantly pointed out to you to look.

[Vahilor]

SS2Dante wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

Cause of all that "Synthetic destroy their Creators" talk... Why did the Reapers destroy the Prothenas than ? The prothens only seemd to have VIs and no KIs at all ?
Why than destroy the Protheans if the main reason is to protect the organics from the synthetics ?

And who sais in other cycles there was no coexistens of Synthetics and organics ? Cause of that arrogance of the Reapers and Star Brat it doesn't even matter if there is a cooexixtsnce.. they purge the organics anyway, cause their big logic is that synthetics allways will kill organics...

Javik says that this something similar did in fact happen in his cycle.

Also, the point is not that they are trying to saves lives, it's that they are preserving organic life as a whole. They couldn't care less which individuals keep living, so long as organics stay alive. One possible reason is that they use organic material in reproduction. Hence the need to keep organics alive. The cycle both guarantess organics stay alive and that they don't get advanced enough to pose a threat.

But that's somthing totaly diffrent than what Star Brat is telling Shep =).

[balance5050]

SS2Dante wrote...


Anyway, all of this is speculation. I'm just pointing out that the starkid is not blatently wrong and stupid like veryone is suggesting.

If the entire galaxy thinks you are blatantly wrong and stupid, you probably are. The Geth even end up fighting the reapers dude....

[Skillz1986]

@byne
THIS...well i'd like to see anyone counter this.

[SS2Dante]

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...


*shrug* enslavement with brainwashing. I'd draw a parallel to religion but I don't wanna start a big argument P

Also, if you're a Reaper you're not "enslaving" them. You're making them better than they were, showing them a higher state of existence. Making them happier than they ever could have been as a mere human/krogan/blueskinnedhotalienchick

No offence but you sound like a fully indoctrinated Saren right now.

People are saying they think the starchilds logic is false. I'm pointing out that since we do not think like them, their priorities are compltely different. I don't AGREE with them, but I can understand where they get their logic from. Different beings, different priorities. People are calling them stupid without thinking about it.

If you think like serial killer, you could understand his logic too!

If you think like someone, you will always understand their logic.

If you think like a stupid person, they won't seem stupid.

Do you see the problem with this?

Yes, you could. But you could never agree with it. Hence Reapers never "asking" us to stop working on synthetics.

The funny thing is, that work the other way around. The Reapers are huge, extremely intelligent computers. they are demonstratably smarter than any organic being. So, you assume that we, beings who are less intelligent, have "figured out" the whole in their logic? From beings who built the mass relays? Thats like us trying to prove Einstein wrong in physics (rough analogy). 

Point is, everyone is missing the different priorities thing, and weighing in life as a large factor in the calculations here, where to a Reaper it would carry no value in the calculation.

[SS2Dante]

Vahilor wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

Cause of all that "Synthetic destroy their Creators" talk... Why did the Reapers destroy the Prothenas than ? The prothens only seemd to have VIs and no KIs at all ?
Why than destroy the Protheans if the main reason is to protect the organics from the synthetics ?

And who sais in other cycles there was no coexistens of Synthetics and organics ? Cause of that arrogance of the Reapers and Star Brat it doesn't even matter if there is a cooexixtsnce.. they purge the organics anyway, cause their big logic is that synthetics allways will kill organics...

Javik says that this something similar did in fact happen in his cycle.

Also, the point is not that they are trying to saves lives, it's that they are preserving organic life as a whole. They couldn't care less which individuals keep living, so long as organics stay alive. One possible reason is that they use organic material in reproduction. Hence the need to keep organics alive. The cycle both guarantess organics stay alive and that they don't get advanced enough to pose a threat.

But that's somthing totaly diffrent than what Star Brat is telling Shep =).

Agreed. I said possible reason  Like I said, this is all speculation. All we know is that the Reapers, for some reason, want organic life to stay, but don't care about individuals. I just offered a suggestion as to why.

[SS2Dante]

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...


Anyway, all of this is speculation. I'm just pointing out that the starkid is not blatently wrong and stupid like veryone is suggesting.

If the entire galaxy thinks you are blatantly wrong and stupid, you probably are. The Geth even end up fighting the reapers dude....

Are you trying to tell me this war was fought because we disagreed with the philosophy? It wasn't . The war was fought because they have a job to do and so do we. The goals clash. One of us has to die. I ain't letting it be us

[xaurabh123]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...


*shrug* enslavement with brainwashing. I'd draw a parallel to religion but I don't wanna start a big argument P

Also, if you're a Reaper you're not "enslaving" them. You're making them better than they were, showing them a higher state of existence. Making them happier than they ever could have been as a mere human/krogan/blueskinnedhotalienchick

No offence but you sound like a fully indoctrinated Saren right now.

People are saying they think the starchilds logic is false. I'm pointing out that since we do not think like them, their priorities are compltely different. I don't AGREE with them, but I can understand where they get their logic from. Different beings, different priorities. People are calling them stupid without thinking about it.

So how can you argue FOR it if you aren't supposed to understand it yourself?

That starkid and his logic donot fit in the game. It was about shepard and the reaper. That thing is trapped in just one logic that the synthetic will wipe out organics, so let them wiped out by ourself. He cannot predict the future.So ,he is not eligible for a Reaper Controlling Super AI. 

[Skillz1986]

@ss2dante

no,all we KNOW is, that bieber told us the reapers try to preserve organic life. which means we don't know anything. what we see..is the reapers KILLING (well we don't see it, we hear it) millions.

[StElmo]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Hey Lovely Chums!

Could someone please proof this idea?

Has anyone considered that Shepard makes it to the citadel, but his mind is half warped from indoctrination, therefore making it plausible that he fired the cruciable, but did so as a result of fighting within his own mind with starchild and the RGB metaphor?

So yes, shepard did defeat the reapers with the cruciable (like sleep walking/dazed/hullucinating type thing), but he only dreamed of starchild, normandy crash etc?

I think this would be idea

Yeah, it's been brought up - personally I don't like it, as it would suggest that the Crucible still fired Space Magic beams, and that it functions via completely nonsensical means (e.g. shooting a pole destroys all synthetics. You see the logical vacuum).

no, thats all in his/her head. We don't see the real cruciable firing, but we assume that it did.

I'll show you:

see this I made a thread for my explanation, hope you guiys can give some input

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11565176/1#11565433

[Turbotanden]

Seeing the starchild conversation through IT eyes, the conversation is brilliantly written.

Control ending he implies that Shepard will live on (controlling the reapers) but says that she will die.
Synthesis ending he implies that Shepard will sort of live on (turned into energy used to synthesise the universe) but says that she will die.
Destroy however he implies that Shepard will die, but actually says nothing.

[SS2Dante]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...


*shrug* enslavement with brainwashing. I'd draw a parallel to religion but I don't wanna start a big argument P

Also, if you're a Reaper you're not "enslaving" them. You're making them better than they were, showing them a higher state of existence. Making them happier than they ever could have been as a mere human/krogan/blueskinnedhotalienchick

No offence but you sound like a fully indoctrinated Saren right now.

People are saying they think the starchilds logic is false. I'm pointing out that since we do not think like them, their priorities are compltely different. I don't AGREE with them, but I can understand where they get their logic from. Different beings, different priorities. People are calling them stupid without thinking about it.

So how can you argue FOR it if you aren't supposed to understand it yourself?

I'm not arguing for it! I'm presenting the possible Reaper aruments. Geeze. Everyone's keeping this too emotional, I'm giving a purely clinical account of the galaxy and the stratagies you could use to keep in, ASSUMING you don't care about life. Don't get why everyone suddenly seems all offended.

[balance5050]

SS2Dante wrote...

They do, no arguing that. However, generally speaking, it's an even fight. The problem with synthetic versus organic is that synthetic will probably win, especially if the split happens fast.

For some reason I don't accept that. The only machines that it's not an even fight against is the reapers, who have had millions of your head start. The Geth were going to be destroyed if not for the reapers, the protheans took care of their synthetics too. Considering how fast Organics reproduce I don't think Synthetics would eve outnumber organics and organics wouldn't allow that to happen. If they did te Salarians would just make a virus, the Krogans could be ground fleet.

THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES ANY REAPER LOGIC REMOTELY ACCURATE IS THE REAPERS THEMSELVES. EVERY OTHER CYCLE AND SPECIES IS FUNDAMENTALLY ANTI REAPER.

[SS2Dante]

Also, man, typing so fast sends my spelling to hell

[byne]

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...


Anyway, all of this is speculation. I'm just pointing out that the starkid is not blatently wrong and stupid like veryone is suggesting.

If the entire galaxy thinks you are blatantly wrong and stupid, you probably are. The Geth even end up fighting the reapers dude....

It seems to even mirror the reaction the the game's ending!

Reapers: Dont you guys understand? We actually make perfect sense!

Organics: No. No you dont.

Reapers: Look! The Reapers we have created from 75 previous cycles have all given us perfect scores!

Organics: How is that relevant? Why not actually try to have internally consistent logical reasons for doing what you do, instead of just falling back on reviews from things that have a vested interest in keeping you happy with them?

Reapers: WE BELIEVE IN GODCHILD'S ARTISTIC VISION!

TIM: Silly entitled organics. We're lucky the Reapers harvest organics at all! Who are we to make demands of them?!

Modifié par byne, 20 avril 2012 - 04:46 .

[paxxton]

Rifneno wrote...

paxxton wrote...

The starchild's logic makes perfect sense if you actually listen to what he explicitly states. The Reapers do not kill every organic lifeform but only ADVANCED ENOUGH civilizations. This means that the galaxy with 12 simple civs + 4 advanced civs (a total of 16 civs) is left with 12 simple civs (a total of 12 civs) after the purge to develop for the next Reaper invasion.

Oh. My God. I... You... Oh my GOD.

Aha. That's an extremely comprehensive answer. But unfortunately I cannot comprehend the magnitude of its meaning.

[xaurabh123]

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...


Anyway, all of this is speculation. I'm just pointing out that the starkid is not blatently wrong and stupid like veryone is suggesting.

If the entire galaxy thinks you are blatantly wrong and stupid, you probably are. The Geth even end up fighting the reapers dude....

Are you trying to tell me this war was fought because we disagreed with the philosophy? It wasn't . The war was fought because they have a job to do and so do we. The goals clash. One of us has to die. I ain't letting it be us

So Bioware didnot have any better idea, just a flawed logic? Everyone in the galaxy is dying just because a freaking AI thinks some stupid logic.?

[lex0r11]

BatmanTurian wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...
It's okay, Rifneno. Human Baby will take over, you can relax.

*image snipped*

Lex0r can you help me out? I can't seem to post images for some reason. Maybe I'm doing something wrong...

It must be because your account registration is too recent. I don't know after what time you are allowed to post pictures, sorry.

[Vahilor]

SS2Dante wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

Cause of all that "Synthetic destroy their Creators" talk... Why did the Reapers destroy the Prothenas than ? The prothens only seemd to have VIs and no KIs at all ?
Why than destroy the Protheans if the main reason is to protect the organics from the synthetics ?

And who sais in other cycles there was no coexistens of Synthetics and organics ? Cause of that arrogance of the Reapers and Star Brat it doesn't even matter if there is a cooexixtsnce.. they purge the organics anyway, cause their big logic is that synthetics allways will kill organics...

Javik says that this something similar did in fact happen in his cycle.

Also, the point is not that they are trying to saves lives, it's that they are preserving organic life as a whole. They couldn't care less which individuals keep living, so long as organics stay alive. One possible reason is that they use organic material in reproduction. Hence the need to keep organics alive. The cycle both guarantess organics stay alive and that they don't get advanced enough to pose a threat.

But that's somthing totaly diffrent than what Star Brat is telling Shep =).

Agreed. I said possible reason  Like I said, this is all speculation. All we know is that the Reapers, for some reason, want organic life to stay, but don't care about individuals. I just offered a suggestion as to why.

To be honest, I have no problem with the Reapers and really liked them much more, when we still didn't know why they were reaping (the only we knew they somhow needed the human material for another reaper)... and they still were very mysteryous and that is the thing that made them so terryfing..

But Star Brat totaly ruined the Reapers somhow... they were devalued to machines controlled by an idiotic KI/godlike shiniy kid.. that behaves really like a kid...

[SS2Dante]

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

They do, no arguing that. However, generally speaking, it's an even fight. The problem with synthetic versus organic is that synthetic will probably win, especially if the split happens fast.

For some reason I don't accept that. The only machines that it's not an even fight against is the reapers, who have had millions of your head start. The Geth were going to be destroyed if not for the reapers, the protheans took care of their synthetics too. Considering how fast Organics reproduce I don't think Synthetics would eve outnumber organics and organics wouldn't allow that to happen. If they did te Salarians would just make a virus, the Krogans could be ground fleet.

THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES ANY REAPER LOGIC REMOTELY ACCURATE IS THE REAPERS THEMSELVES. EVERY OTHER CYCLE AND SPECIES IS FUNDAMENTALLY ANTI REAPER.

No it isn;t. The Geth won the first war. the ONLY reason the quarians are still alive is because they abandoned their homeworld. You saw in the clip in the Consensus the moment the call was made. If that admiral had ordered another attack their would be no Quarians left.

Also, synthetics can be produced in a factory, cranking out hundreds a day, all of which are immediately fully battle trained and more accurate with a gun than any human could possibly be. I don't see how human reproduction can compare.

[SS2Dante]

xaurabh123 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...


Anyway, all of this is speculation. I'm just pointing out that the starkid is not blatently wrong and stupid like veryone is suggesting.

If the entire galaxy thinks you are blatantly wrong and stupid, you probably are. The Geth even end up fighting the reapers dude....

Are you trying to tell me this war was fought because we disagreed with the philosophy? It wasn't . The war was fought because they have a job to do and so do we. The goals clash. One of us has to die. I ain't letting it be us

So Bioware didnot have any better idea, just a flawed logic? Everyone in the galaxy is dying just because a freaking AI thinks some stupid logic.?

Flawed logic according to OUR standards. I keep having to repeat this. Must I make the crossing the road argument again?

[zambingo]

Reposting here, as things get lost in the speed of the board.

Spurred by a joke thread this morning I adopted a step by step approach to a different version of IT, one that maintains Bioware's actual ending(s)...

Step 1: Make it to the Beam
Step 2: Get Blasted by Harbinger
Step 3: Kill the Husks
Step 4: Get to Marauder Shields
Step 5: Defeat him faster than Harbinger can ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL
Step 6: Beam up to the Citadel.
Step 7: Start to get assaulted by Harbinger's Indoctrination attempt.
Step 8: Argue with the actual Anderson and TIM, while being pressured by an Indoctrination assault.
Step 9: Get to the Crucible
Step 10: Feel the final stages of an Indoctrination assault by Harbinger, who presents himself as the Starchild.
Step 11: Choose the fate of the Galaxy.

Fate A: Commander Reaper
Fate B: Commander Borg
Fate C: Commander Hope For The Best

[SS2Dante]

Turbotanden wrote...

Seeing the starchild conversation through IT eyes, the conversation is brilliantly written.

Control ending he implies that Shepard will live on (controlling the reapers) but says that she will die.
Synthesis ending he implies that Shepard will sort of live on (turned into energy used to synthesise the universe) but says that she will die.
Destroy however he implies that Shepard will die, but actually says nothing.

isn't it just

Once you've got IT the ending is actually lots of fun to play, it's such a shame a lot of people refuse to do it because they didn't like it without IT