57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Primalrose]

I haven't played through the entire game so maybe somebody can clear up on this...but it struck me as odd when Shepard sees that kid for the first time, how quickly he dissappeared after Shepard looked away for just a moment. I thought maybe all the stress was playing up and Shep was seeing things maybe.

[Fenrisfil]

I'm inclined to believe the hallucination idea. There is definitely something odd about the ending. Perhaps my hatred for Casper has coloured my opinion a bit, but it's not just that.

I really don't get how the synthesis thing is meant to work. Throw yourself into the beam and suddenly it can re-write all of creation? Really? It's powerful enough to do that, but can't provide a fourth solutiion like just blowing up the Reapers or leaving the mass relays alone.

Destroying all synthetics is false logic too, given that the Geth and EDI have developed positively and future generations AI's may not (but could with guidance from a previous generation), it seems likely to increase the chance of synthetic dominance as compared to just blowing up the reapers and leaving the Geth to develop alongside the Quarians.

Then again the false logic of killing Organic life to stop Synthetics taking over is pretty sily to begin with.

As much as  I love these games, I can't bring myself to love the ending. It's not quite at "Lost" levels of disapointment, but put aside the good points of the series it's a major let down.

[Elanor]

Elmogaming wrote...

BlackAvalon wrote...

FridgeRaider88 wrote...

http://postimage.org/image/wleo622sh/

The defense rests, your honour.

I seem to remember Vega complaining of a humming as well for the record.

Brilliant discussion people, keep it up. I like it. c:

It makes sense.

Furthermore the "God Child" tries to tell sheapard destroying all the reapers was a bad idea... and lets not forget the "God child" Talks about the reapers As "Us"... obviously harbinger

This makes sense.

Modifié par Elanor1, 12 mars 2012 - 10:25 .

[count_4]

Dilandau3000 wrote...
I didn't see anything the stargazer said that indicated that. Nothing in that cutscene indicated if FTL existed one way or the other. In fact, to assume there is no FTL you have to assume that he was just placating the kid when he said he could visit the stars "soon".

Well, the scene is cleary quite some time ahead of the whole Shepard busniness. Still the boy asked if they will ever be travelling to the stars.
Hell, the Stargazer even wasn't aware that other species actually existed which doesn't even make sense unless it is a thousand years or longer ahead and Shepard, and therefore the other species, became a myth.
Damn, writing about this is depressing... :/

Modifié par count_4, 12 mars 2012 - 10:23 .

[wryterra]

To my mind the most compelling argument that Shepard had been indoctrinated, in hindsight, was simply that I chose 'control the Reapers' as the outcome.

The Illusive Man told me he could control them, Shepard told him he couldn't because the Reapers controlled HIM.

Shepard believed she COULD because the catalyst told her she could. Just as the Reapers told TIM that he could.

I was going for a pathos ending of 'you become what you fight' with an uncompromising Shepard unwilling to accept sacrificing anyone *else* for the outcome but determined that the Reapers would leave the people she'd fought for alone.

It makes her the perfect target for indoctrination.

[holyshock18]

I am hoping so much we are correct with this therory. And since Bioware wont say anything. Only vauge hints about something. The hope is still there

[El Diablo]

SorrowAndJoy7 wrote...

I can understand this ending... and it actually makes the most sense... but what I don't understand is with these endings in mind, why they give us EDI, why they give us Legion, and how you can explore in so many ways that not all Synthetics are bad.... that they can be essentially human and choose and feel like we do.

If the final choice was "Destroy the Reapers" that would make more sense to me in the denying indoctrination choice... though it would also make it an easier choice... I feel like "Synthetics" was tacked in to make it the hardest choice of all... because now you are destroying things that have proven they can care and decide and feel like humans do. Yes it makes the choice harder, but is it appropriate given so many things we've experienced in the story to present it with destroying -all- synthetics as the correct choice.

In my mind, assuming this is the true interpretation of the ending, they unjustifiably included sympathetic synthetics only to trick players into being more likely to take the wrong route. They unjustifiably tacked in destroying "Synthetics" rather than destroying "Reapers" to make players more likely to take the wrong route... This isn't just the Reapers making the choice less appealing, the choice actually does kill friendly caring synthetics just as much as evil bad ones, it is Bioware itself making the choice less appealing by giving us so many truly good synthetics in the story.

I feel like making a choice more evil feeling was taken to the highest level they could... at the cost of characters they created who defied the rightness of this choice. That is why I find the indoctrination theory to be a truly great thought but one that was executed in a way that was more about tricking players than anything else. Is that why they added EDI as a squad mate in ME3, just to trick players even more than only Legion could? To me that is more of a slap in the face than almost just having bad endings is... It's like your professor writing questions more aimed at tricking you than they are at seeing if you understand the actual concept. That is what this feels like to me... which is still depressing that they had to take it this direction.

My argument exactly. tricking a player just is a bit low to me. In a movie or story it is (usually) fine but in a game a certain level of 'Fairness' must be considered.

[Lord fiSh]

There is no real Kid! Back at Earth Anderson didt see the Kid, also no one helps the Kid into the Shuttle, same lie as the cake

Modifié par Lord fiSh, 12 mars 2012 - 10:24 .

[Ananka]

Thanks guys, this thread makes me feel so much less depressed about the way things ended. I think I'll be able to replay the game now without feeling too bad.
This theory also makes the twitter comments make sense.
Man I hope this theory is correct. You have no idea how much I have been agonizing over the current endings.


Edit: I've suspected that the kid was Shep's imagination, but in the current endings, I just assumed he was the form the Crucible was taking in her mind. But you guys are right- why the hell should she trust somebody working with the Reapers?

Modifié par Annaka, 12 mars 2012 - 10:30 .

[Dilandau3000]

TobiTobsen wrote...

BlackAvalon wrote...

FridgeRaider88 wrote...

http://postimage.org/image/wleo622sh/

The defense rests, your honour.

I seem to remember Vega complaining of a humming as well for the record.

Brilliant discussion people, keep it up. I like it. c:

Yup... one of his idle conversations. The first thing I thought was "indoctrination" when he said it.

The first thing I thought was "no, I can hear it too". It's in the background audio on the shuttle bay, people! Bioware wouldn't make an important plot point about Vega or the entire Normandy crew being indoctrinated a throw-away "I have nothing to say" line.

[GuiltySource]

The hope is strong in this thread. The pain if Bioware destroys it.

[Little Lummo]

Lord fiSh wrote...

There is no real Kid! Back at Earth Anderson didt see the Kid, also no one helps the Kid into the Shuttle, same lie as the cake

When i started NG+ last night, i noticed that Anderson didn't even acknowledge the child and he doesnt seem the sort who would ignore a child in need of help. And as you say yea, nobody helps the child in the shuttle...

[InfoGuy101]

I loved ME3 until I got to the end, the choices at the end where interesting but not satisfying and it felt so different from the rest of the game for some reason anyway what's done is done, I don't think Bioware will do anything about this but hey we can hope.

[Tamuril24]

Little Lummo wrote...

Lord fiSh wrote...

There is no real Kid! Back at Earth Anderson didt see the Kid, also no one helps the Kid into the Shuttle, same lie as the cake

When i started NG+ last night, i noticed that Anderson didn't even acknowledge the child and he doesnt seem the sort who would ignore a child in need of help. And as you say yea, nobody helps the child in the shuttle...

^this

[Dilandau3000]

People have speculated the child was a figment of Shepard's imagination since the demo came out. Then again, just about all other speculation about ME3 based on the trailers and demo turned out to be false.

[Elmogaming]

Anyone know if there's been an update on twitter ?

[David Bergsma]

Lord fiSh wrote...

There is no real Kid! Back at Earth Anderson didt see the Kid, also no one helps the Kid into the Shuttle, same lie as the cake

Yeah, you're right. None sees the child except for the commander. 
When the shuttle is being loaded you can see a lot of people being helped by the soldiers but none cares about a kid with no parents? This is tricky, something's wrong. 


And guys, don't forget that bioware saw this conversation and commented on twitter, they're holding something back, that's for sure.

[Elmogaming]

Another thing when the game is over you get the message then you start right before the cerberus base mission..... anyone see any significent evidence as to why this is?

[count_4]

Reading these threads and thinking about it is amazing.
I didn't even (consciously) notice the fact that no-one helps the kid up. It looked weird, climbing up there but the connection from weird to imagination never crossed my mind.

Modifié par count_4, 12 mars 2012 - 10:31 .

[count_4]

Elmogaming wrote...
Another thing when the game is over you get the message then you start right before the cerberus base mission..... anyone see any significent evidence as to why this is?

Well, at first glance it's a simple way to allow for DLC. Shepards main story is told, now you can add some little story the Stargazer can tell the boy about Shepard.
What makes it weird is that you don't really continue. The game is actually reset (including the gametime) to this point. No progress is taken over at all.
It has to mean something...

Modifié par count_4, 12 mars 2012 - 10:36 .

[cannedcream]

InfoGuy101 wrote...

I loved ME3 until I got to the end, the choices at the end where interesting but not satisfying and it felt so different from the rest of the game for some reason anyway what's done is done, I don't think Bioware will do anything about this but hey we can hope.

Could be. A sign of indoc IS seeing things.

[coruptai125]

I'm really happy this thread exists and will continue to follow developments. Keep up the good work guys.

[Corephyfish]

David Bergsma wrote...

Lord fiSh wrote...

There
is no real Kid! Back at Earth Anderson didt see the Kid, also no one
helps the Kid into the Shuttle, same lie as the cake

Yeah, you're right. None sees the child except for the commander. 
When
the shuttle is being loaded you can see a lot of people being helped by
the soldiers but none cares about a kid with no parents? This is
tricky, something's wrong. 


And guys, don't forget that
bioware saw this conversation and commented on twitter, they're holding
something back, that's for sure.

Well, unless Shep can hallucinate photos (which may be a possiblity) the kid was at least real at some point.

Modifié par slydfoxxy, 12 mars 2012 - 10:37 .

[Elmogaming]

David Bergsma wrote...

Lord fiSh wrote...

There is no real Kid! Back at Earth Anderson didt see the Kid, also no one helps the Kid into the Shuttle, same lie as the cake

Yeah, you're right. None sees the child except for the commander. 
When the shuttle is being loaded you can see a lot of people being helped by the soldiers but none cares about a kid with no parents? This is tricky, something's wrong. 


And guys, don't forget that bioware saw this conversation and commented on twitter, they're holding something back, that's for sure.

Maybe sheapard was indoctrinatedfor ages.. the game does say "Ghostly precense" and hullusinations(Dreams) My guess is sheapard was under the influence of it ever since he collected the iff maybe?