57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Auralius Carolus]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Those photos do look similar to ME3 citadel return.

That would go as positive evidence towards the it was a dream part of the IT since the whole segment aboard the citadel (with anderson and IM) was contructed from sheps memories as well as how you deal with IM in the same way you delt with Saren (they both commit suicide)

Negative. The evidence is indistinguishable.

Both structures are supposed to be onboard the Citadel, and the final journey there reveals that the walls are capable of realigning. Regardless, it is logical to assume some high degree of uniformity onboard the Citadel given parallels along the arms.

Support could go either way.

[LumbercracK]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

LumbercracK wrote...

I refuse to beleive control and synthesis are tricks.
If i cannot trust star child to tell me the truth then i cannot make the decision as they are all lies.
Why would he tell me i even have the option to destroy them if he was lying to me. If starchild is lying he is terrible at it.

IT is false

Synthesis makes zero sense.

I like the geth
control it is

Why would a being that has existed for millions of years, pursuing a continuous unyielding path, suddenly abandon his devotion and hand over his very fate to you on a whim? THAT doesn't make any sense.

Simple

"My solution will not work anymore..."
Keep in mind the reapers are HIS things he is not a reaper. He uses the reapers to control the world and prevent "chaos."

Nothing sheppard does will harm starchild. Starchild is not s synthetic. 

Basically Starchild sees sheppards existance at the crucible a sign of failure on his part. The universe over many cycles has managed to reject his solution. He will ned to find a new one. IMHO star child doesnt care what sheppard really does because he plans on doing something else later on. He is still intent on preventing chaos. Just not by using the reapers.

As for the accusation that he is a liar based on the geth peace:
Why cant he be wrong. He obviously has faulty logic and is not a perfect being. Who says he has to be right. He can choose to ignore the geth peace on any grounds because he does not beleive it.Starchild can be wrong and determined to spread his wrong ideals. That is a very comon type of villan. 

He cant be lying because If not IT then he didnt lie and what he says comes true and if IT then hes presenting sheppard with a terribly in effective lie. Who says he has to tell us about the destry option at all.

[SS2Dante]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Those photos do look similar to ME3 citadel return.

That would go as positive evidence towards the it was a dream part of the IT since the whole segment aboard the citadel (with anderson and IM) was contructed from sheps memories as well as how you deal with IM in the same way you delt with Saren (they both commit suicide)

Negative. The evidence is indistinguishable.

Both structures are supposed to be onboard the Citadel, and the final journey there reveals that the walls are capable of realigning. Regardless, it is logical to assume some high degree of uniformity onboard the Citadel given parallels along the arms.

Support could go either way.

Don't know why, but I read that "Negative" in Nibblers voice

[Apollo-XL5]

SS2Dante wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Those photos do look similar to ME3 citadel return.

That would go as positive evidence towards the it was a dream part of the IT since the whole segment aboard the citadel (with anderson and IM) was contructed from sheps memories as well as how you deal with IM in the same way you delt with Saren (they both commit suicide)

True, but the citadel control panel is completely in place in the literal interpretation. I mean, it IS a control panel for the citadel

But then there is no logic in the reapers (who as machines use logic) to have a conduit beam that can teleport anyone within a short walk of the citadel arm controls and also have no husks there to defend it.  And also have anderson who tells you he arrived after you, only then to have him appear infront of you despite there being only one way to the control panel from the teleporter.  You see the absence of logic here.  None of it makes any sense.  And the only way it makes sense is that it is a dream, since dreams dont make any sense.

[SS2Dante]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Those photos do look similar to ME3 citadel return.

That would go as positive evidence towards the it was a dream part of the IT since the whole segment aboard the citadel (with anderson and IM) was contructed from sheps memories as well as how you deal with IM in the same way you delt with Saren (they both commit suicide)

True, but the citadel control panel is completely in place in the literal interpretation. I mean, it IS a control panel for the citadel

But then there is no logic in the reapers (who as machines use logic) to have a conduit beam that can teleport anyone within a short walk of the citadel arm controls and also have no husks there to defend it.  And also have anderson who tells you he arrived after you, only then to have him appear infront of you despite there being only one way to the control panel from the teleporter.  You see the absence of logic here.  None of it makes any sense.  And the only way it makes sense is that it is a dream, since dreams dont make any sense.

Absolutely. i'm just saying that this particular evidence can't be used to support IT because it's not out of place.

[SS2Dante]

LumbercracK wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

LumbercracK wrote...

I refuse to beleive control and synthesis are tricks.
If i cannot trust star child to tell me the truth then i cannot make the decision as they are all lies.
Why would he tell me i even have the option to destroy them if he was lying to me. If starchild is lying he is terrible at it.

IT is false

Synthesis makes zero sense.

I like the geth
control it is

Why would a being that has existed for millions of years, pursuing a continuous unyielding path, suddenly abandon his devotion and hand over his very fate to you on a whim? THAT doesn't make any sense.

Simple

"My solution will not work anymore..."
Keep in mind the reapers are HIS things he is not a reaper. He uses the reapers to control the world and prevent "chaos."

Nothing sheppard does will harm starchild. Starchild is not s synthetic. 

Basically Starchild sees sheppards existance at the crucible a sign of failure on his part. The universe over many cycles has managed to reject his solution. He will ned to find a new one. IMHO star child doesnt care what sheppard really does because he plans on doing something else later on. He is still intent on preventing chaos. Just not by using the reapers.

As for the accusation that he is a liar based on the geth peace:
Why cant he be wrong. He obviously has faulty logic and is not a perfect being. Who says he has to be right. He can choose to ignore the geth peace on any grounds because he does not beleive it.Starchild can be wrong and determined to spread his wrong ideals. That is a very comon type of villan. 

He cant be lying because If not IT then he didnt lie and what he says comes true and if IT then hes presenting sheppard with a terribly in effective lie. Who says he has to tell us about the destry option at all.

Indoctrination is not mind control. Subjects have to give in of their own free will. The ending is not some hologram, it's the visual representation of the struggle in Shepards mind. Since Shepard  hasn't fallen to indoctrination yet the choice to reject it, red, is always there.

This has been answered many times before. I think you should go and read an article on IT for clarification.

[Big Bad]

Hey y'all - I've got a request. Yesterday it was mentioned in the thread that at one point, one of the devs posted a tweet about how they all liked the movies "Shutter Island" and "Sixth Sense." Now obviously, these are two movies that both have twist endings, so I think this could be an important statement, if true.

Does anybody have a link to that tweet? Or can you at least confirm that you saw it?

Thanks!

[LumbercracK]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Those photos do look similar to ME3 citadel return.

That would go as positive evidence towards the it was a dream part of the IT since the whole segment aboard the citadel (with anderson and IM) was contructed from sheps memories as well as how you deal with IM in the same way you delt with Saren (they both commit suicide)

True, but the citadel control panel is completely in place in the literal interpretation. I mean, it IS a control panel for the citadel

But then there is no logic in the reapers (who as machines use logic) to have a conduit beam that can teleport anyone within a short walk of the citadel arm controls and also have no husks there to defend it.  And also have anderson who tells you he arrived after you, only then to have him appear infront of you despite there being only one way to the control panel from the teleporter.  You see the absence of logic here.  None of it makes any sense.  And the only way it makes sense is that it is a dream, since dreams dont make any sense.

False.
This assumes that the creative director wanted each and every one of these irregularities implemented specifically. Its very easy to assume that someone didnt coordinate the dialouge  and the acctual gameplay perfectly. Essentially its as though the writer and level designer never talked. 

[LumbercracK]

SS2Dante wrote...

LumbercracK wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

LumbercracK wrote...

I refuse to beleive control and synthesis are tricks.
If i cannot trust star child to tell me the truth then i cannot make the decision as they are all lies.
Why would he tell me i even have the option to destroy them if he was lying to me. If starchild is lying he is terrible at it.

IT is false

Synthesis makes zero sense.

I like the geth
control it is

Why would a being that has existed for millions of years, pursuing a continuous unyielding path, suddenly abandon his devotion and hand over his very fate to you on a whim? THAT doesn't make any sense.

Simple

"My solution will not work anymore..."
Keep in mind the reapers are HIS things he is not a reaper. He uses the reapers to control the world and prevent "chaos."

Nothing sheppard does will harm starchild. Starchild is not s synthetic. 

Basically Starchild sees sheppards existance at the crucible a sign of failure on his part. The universe over many cycles has managed to reject his solution. He will ned to find a new one. IMHO star child doesnt care what sheppard really does because he plans on doing something else later on. He is still intent on preventing chaos. Just not by using the reapers.

As for the accusation that he is a liar based on the geth peace:
Why cant he be wrong. He obviously has faulty logic and is not a perfect being. Who says he has to be right. He can choose to ignore the geth peace on any grounds because he does not beleive it.Starchild can be wrong and determined to spread his wrong ideals. That is a very comon type of villan. 

He cant be lying because If not IT then he didnt lie and what he says comes true and if IT then hes presenting sheppard with a terribly in effective lie. Who says he has to tell us about the destry option at all.

Indoctrination is not mind control. Subjects have to give in of their own free will. The ending is not some hologram, it's the visual representation of the struggle in Shepards mind. Since Shepard  hasn't fallen to indoctrination yet the choice to reject it, red, is always there.

This has been answered many times before. I think you should go and read an article on IT for clarification.

Ok then here is a nice little slice for you.
Why if you choose to destroy do you go shoot a glass tube. Star child could say absolutly nothing and you should have no knowledge f how to activate destroy. There is no precedent for a machine designed to work once you shoot it until it explodes. Noone mentions how you activate the crucible. The people who built it thought it would auto fire. Star Child doesnt need to tell sheppard anything about destroy and he will have no way of activating it. 

[SS2Dante]

LumbercracK wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Those photos do look similar to ME3 citadel return.

That would go as positive evidence towards the it was a dream part of the IT since the whole segment aboard the citadel (with anderson and IM) was contructed from sheps memories as well as how you deal with IM in the same way you delt with Saren (they both commit suicide)

True, but the citadel control panel is completely in place in the literal interpretation. I mean, it IS a control panel for the citadel

But then there is no logic in the reapers (who as machines use logic) to have a conduit beam that can teleport anyone within a short walk of the citadel arm controls and also have no husks there to defend it.  And also have anderson who tells you he arrived after you, only then to have him appear infront of you despite there being only one way to the control panel from the teleporter.  You see the absence of logic here.  None of it makes any sense.  And the only way it makes sense is that it is a dream, since dreams dont make any sense.

False.
This assumes that the creative director wanted each and every one of these irregularities implemented specifically. Its very easy to assume that someone didnt coordinate the dialouge  and the acctual gameplay perfectly. Essentially its as though the writer and level designer never talked. 

Yes it does. That's the entire point of IT. There are almost no plot inconsistincies in ME3 until the end, then suddnely there are loads. They wanted people to notice this.

By the way, in that first room after waking up on the citadel? You can walk straight through one of the keepers. It's not a clipping error, nor can you walk through the other keepers there. The thing is, that means they manually turned OFF clipping on that particular keeper. Collision detection is always set to on to make level placement easier. EXTRA work, instead of being lazy. EXTRA attention to detail.

[Arian Dynas]

Big Bad wrote...

Hey y'all - I've got a request. Yesterday it was mentioned in the thread that at one point, one of the devs posted a tweet about how they all liked the movies "Shutter Island" and "Sixth Sense." Now obviously, these are two movies that both have twist endings, so I think this could be an important statement, if true.

Does anybody have a link to that tweet? Or can you at least confirm that you saw it?

Thanks!

Look, if it'll help ya out, I'll see if I can find it.

[Auralius Carolus]

LumbercracK wrote...

Simple

"My solution will not work anymore..."
Keep in mind the reapers are HIS things he is not a reaper. He uses the reapers to control the world and prevent "chaos."

Nothing sheppard does will harm starchild. Starchild is not s synthetic. 

Basically Starchild sees sheppards existance at the crucible a sign of failure on his part. The universe over many cycles has managed to reject his solution. He will ned to find a new one. IMHO star child doesnt care what sheppard really does because he plans on doing something else later on. He is still intent on preventing chaos. Just not by using the reapers.

The child already contradicts himself in the first two minutes of conversation:
Shepard: "I think we'd rather keep our own form."
Catalyst: "No you can't..."

He then changes tone shortly thereafter.

Allowing a symbol of chaos to alter your path is to submit to chaos. The child submits, if he is to be believed.

The Citadel is "part of me". If Shepard chooses destroy, he splits appart the Citadel. "You want to destroy us."- the child sometimes speaks distinctly with "me" and othertimes with "us", insinuating that he is, in fact, a Reaper. You will note that if, and only if, you chose to shoot the wires that he fades to static and vanishes- he lets you kill him, effectively undoing everything he's stood for.

[SS2Dante]

LumbercracK wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

LumbercracK wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

LumbercracK wrote...

I refuse to beleive control and synthesis are tricks.
If i cannot trust star child to tell me the truth then i cannot make the decision as they are all lies.
Why would he tell me i even have the option to destroy them if he was lying to me. If starchild is lying he is terrible at it.

IT is false

Synthesis makes zero sense.

I like the geth
control it is

Why would a being that has existed for millions of years, pursuing a continuous unyielding path, suddenly abandon his devotion and hand over his very fate to you on a whim? THAT doesn't make any sense.

Simple

"My solution will not work anymore..."
Keep in mind the reapers are HIS things he is not a reaper. He uses the reapers to control the world and prevent "chaos."

Nothing sheppard does will harm starchild. Starchild is not s synthetic. 

Basically Starchild sees sheppards existance at the crucible a sign of failure on his part. The universe over many cycles has managed to reject his solution. He will ned to find a new one. IMHO star child doesnt care what sheppard really does because he plans on doing something else later on. He is still intent on preventing chaos. Just not by using the reapers.

As for the accusation that he is a liar based on the geth peace:
Why cant he be wrong. He obviously has faulty logic and is not a perfect being. Who says he has to be right. He can choose to ignore the geth peace on any grounds because he does not beleive it.Starchild can be wrong and determined to spread his wrong ideals. That is a very comon type of villan. 

He cant be lying because If not IT then he didnt lie and what he says comes true and if IT then hes presenting sheppard with a terribly in effective lie. Who says he has to tell us about the destry option at all.

Indoctrination is not mind control. Subjects have to give in of their own free will. The ending is not some hologram, it's the visual representation of the struggle in Shepards mind. Since Shepard  hasn't fallen to indoctrination yet the choice to reject it, red, is always there.

This has been answered many times before. I think you should go and read an article on IT for clarification.

Ok then here is a nice little slice for you.
Why if you choose to destroy do you go shoot a glass tube. Star child could say absolutly nothing and you should have no knowledge f how to activate destroy. There is no precedent for a machine designed to work once you shoot it until it explodes. Noone mentions how you activate the crucible. The people who built it thought it would auto fire. Star Child doesnt need to tell sheppard anything about destroy and he will have no way of activating it. 

I will have no further discussion with you because you obviously do not understand or do not read my answers. I just stated in that last reply exactly why red is always there, and why it is always an option. You realise in IT that you're not actually on the citadel, right!? You were knocked out by Harbingers beam on the final run, but you haven't woken up yet. Again, please read any article on IT, they all explain this.

[Apollo-XL5]

Ok I am going to make a list of the things that make no f**king sense in the citadel return segment of the game unless it is a *cough* dream *cough*.

1. When harby hits you with his beam, you are still alittle far out from the conduit, but when you wake up you are within spitting distance of it.
2. your gun now has snakes bandana (infinite ammo) and can kill anything in one shot.
3. All the bodie piles around the beam (though low quality graphics) are all of ash and kaidan in outfits from ME1)
4. once aboard the citadel, the first room has hints of collector base and dead reaper (piles of bodies and cabling)
5. Anderson appears to have beamed up there too, but is in a different part of the citadel despite there being only one way to the control panel.
6. Anderson says he came up after you but still manages to beat you to the control panel without you seeing him.
7. The bridge has parts that look almost exactly the same as parts of the shadow brokers ship.
8. path leading to the room is very similar to the section of the citadel you visit in ME1.
9. Once up next to the control panel, look out to the wards and you can see the traffic still moving around like the people living aboard the citadel are still going about their daily lives without a clue to what is really happening.
10. The IM is now horribly transformed face and now looks very similar to how Saren looked.
11. Also the IM has the same ability as Anderson, to be able to appear out of f**king nowhere.

I coul go on, but then I will be saying pretty much what the IT has already said about it.

[SS2Dante]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Hey y'all - I've got a request. Yesterday it was mentioned in the thread that at one point, one of the devs posted a tweet about how they all liked the movies "Shutter Island" and "Sixth Sense." Now obviously, these are two movies that both have twist endings, so I think this could be an important statement, if true.

Does anybody have a link to that tweet? Or can you at least confirm that you saw it?

Thanks!

Look, if it'll help ya out, I'll see if I can find it.

"but you owe me one, buddy" 



Nah I recall that being mentioned too but never saw the tweet.

[Big Bad]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Hey y'all - I've got a request. Yesterday it was mentioned in the thread that at one point, one of the devs posted a tweet about how they all liked the movies "Shutter Island" and "Sixth Sense." Now obviously, these are two movies that both have twist endings, so I think this could be an important statement, if true.

Does anybody have a link to that tweet? Or can you at least confirm that you saw it?

Thanks!

Look, if it'll help ya out, I'll see if I can find it.

Don't feel obligated to, but that would be cool.

I hope you don't think that I think you're lying or something, because I don't.  I'm just one of those "trust but verify" people.

[n00bsauce2010]

I find it rather funny how most anti IDT'ers do not even try to understand how our theory works before they aim to debunk it.

@ss2dante's and lumbercrack's argument of course

[Apollo-XL5]

Oh with line 1. of my previous post, I know this to be true, becuase yesterday I played the run to the beam scene and made my shep run to a large amount of trees to the far right of the section and that was some way off from the point where harbs beam hits you, and I waited there for 20 secs and then harb just turns to you and shoots you. Then suddenly you wake up right next to the conduit.

So what does this mean, did harb have some husk drag my unconsious shep all the way over to there. I would to think what else they could have done to him while he was out cold.

[SS2Dante]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

I find it rather funny how most anti IDT'ers do not even try to understand how our theory works before they aim to debunk it.

@ss2dante's and lumbercrack's argument of course

 

[LumbercracK]

SS2Dante wrote...

LumbercracK wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Those photos do look similar to ME3 citadel return.

That would go as positive evidence towards the it was a dream part of the IT since the whole segment aboard the citadel (with anderson and IM) was contructed from sheps memories as well as how you deal with IM in the same way you delt with Saren (they both commit suicide)

True, but the citadel control panel is completely in place in the literal interpretation. I mean, it IS a control panel for the citadel

But then there is no logic in the reapers (who as machines use logic) to have a conduit beam that can teleport anyone within a short walk of the citadel arm controls and also have no husks there to defend it.  And also have anderson who tells you he arrived after you, only then to have him appear infront of you despite there being only one way to the control panel from the teleporter.  You see the absence of logic here.  None of it makes any sense.  And the only way it makes sense is that it is a dream, since dreams dont make any sense.

False.
This assumes that the creative director wanted each and every one of these irregularities implemented specifically. Its very easy to assume that someone didnt coordinate the dialouge  and the acctual gameplay perfectly. Essentially its as though the writer and level designer never talked. 

Yes it does. That's the entire point of IT. There are almost no plot inconsistincies in ME3 until the end, then suddnely there are loads. They wanted people to notice this.

By the way, in that first room after waking up on the citadel? You can walk straight through one of the keepers. It's not a clipping error, nor can you walk through the other keepers there. The thing is, that means they manually turned OFF clipping on that particular keeper. Collision detection is always set to on to make level placement easier. EXTRA work, instead of being lazy. EXTRA attention to detail.

I have a really hard time beleiving the EA would let them make a game with a false end. It's even harder to beleive When EA is getting hurt bad in stocks and has a golden POO award, that they would be fine with letting this rage go on. 

I can understand the idea that the trees from the dreams are their and that things are wierd in allot of ways. But i cannot imagine a creative director deciding to make a dream sequence look like one by making it glitchy and inconsistant. 

The other big question is if IT is true Then why do the relays get destroyed. Shep should know thats a terrible thing. Why arent the options presented with a better set of options if their not even real.

Essentially my argument is: If IT is true and this is all a dream to convince sheppard to become indoctrinated then why is the attempt to convince shep so weak? Why is shep not given better options? Why do they even explain the destroy option?

Saren was indoctrinated with the ultimatum, Join us or Die.
TIM was indoctrinated with the ultimatum, Control them or humanity will not succeed.
Why is shep's Join/control us or the geth die?

It is such a weak attempt to indoctrinate.

[n00bsauce2010]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Oh with line 1. of my previous post, I know this to be true, becuase yesterday I played the run to the beam scene and made my shep run to a large amount of trees to the far right of the section and that was some way off from the point where harbs beam hits you, and I waited there for 20 secs and then harb just turns to you and shoots you. Then suddenly you wake up right next to the conduit.

So what does this mean, did harb have some husk drag my unconsious shep all the way over to there. I would to think what else they could have done to him while he was out cold.

Anti IDT argument: It's because the devs didn't want you to have to walk another hundred yards to reach the conduit?

My argument: if that is the case.. why the **** wouldn't they just have harbinger shoot you with the beam right before reaching it? We know he could easily have done that as well.

[Arian Dynas]

Big Bad wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Hey y'all - I've got a request. Yesterday it was mentioned in the thread that at one point, one of the devs posted a tweet about how they all liked the movies "Shutter Island" and "Sixth Sense." Now obviously, these are two movies that both have twist endings, so I think this could be an important statement, if true.

Does anybody have a link to that tweet? Or can you at least confirm that you saw it?

Thanks!

Look, if it'll help ya out, I'll see if I can find it.

Don't feel obligated to, but that would be cool.

I hope you don't think that I think you're lying or something, because I don't.  I'm just one of those "trust but verify" people.

Oh I know, and beleive you me, it's proving elusive. Or Illusive if you prefer.

I know I saw the thing, screen capture, might even have been in this very thread, but it was probably sometime around 700 pages. Goddamn, I've been here that long? Yeesh.

****. I found it, it was a fan, one Dan Bradshaw tweeting to Bioware, 

Bradshaw: You know what movies I like? the 6th Sense and Shutter Island *wink* *wink*

Mass Effect: I think we see what you are saying.

Bradshaw: Good. because you know what I don't like? LOST!

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 21 avril 2012 - 12:21 .

[Spartas Husky]

EA are business men not gamers... that explains it all. If the game is horrible and sells good is a good game. If the game is great and sells many copies, it is still a good game.

Difference is how long it takes each to make. A 2 year development cycle isn't meant for an RPG. Otherwise the only way to do so is to transform its producing doctrine into more of a straight line fps or tps. Simple mechanics, simple development allows for 2 year profit margin. True rpg's dont take that short of a time.

[LumbercracK]

SS2Dante wrote...

LumbercracK wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

LumbercracK wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

LumbercracK wrote...

I refuse to beleive control and synthesis are tricks.
If i cannot trust star child to tell me the truth then i cannot make the decision as they are all lies.
Why would he tell me i even have the option to destroy them if he was lying to me. If starchild is lying he is terrible at it.

IT is false

Synthesis makes zero sense.

I like the geth
control it is

Why would a being that has existed for millions of years, pursuing a continuous unyielding path, suddenly abandon his devotion and hand over his very fate to you on a whim? THAT doesn't make any sense.

Simple

"My solution will not work anymore..."
Keep in mind the reapers are HIS things he is not a reaper. He uses the reapers to control the world and prevent "chaos."

Nothing sheppard does will harm starchild. Starchild is not s synthetic. 

Basically Starchild sees sheppards existance at the crucible a sign of failure on his part. The universe over many cycles has managed to reject his solution. He will ned to find a new one. IMHO star child doesnt care what sheppard really does because he plans on doing something else later on. He is still intent on preventing chaos. Just not by using the reapers.

As for the accusation that he is a liar based on the geth peace:
Why cant he be wrong. He obviously has faulty logic and is not a perfect being. Who says he has to be right. He can choose to ignore the geth peace on any grounds because he does not beleive it.Starchild can be wrong and determined to spread his wrong ideals. That is a very comon type of villan. 

He cant be lying because If not IT then he didnt lie and what he says comes true and if IT then hes presenting sheppard with a terribly in effective lie. Who says he has to tell us about the destry option at all.

Indoctrination is not mind control. Subjects have to give in of their own free will. The ending is not some hologram, it's the visual representation of the struggle in Shepards mind. Since Shepard  hasn't fallen to indoctrination yet the choice to reject it, red, is always there.

This has been answered many times before. I think you should go and read an article on IT for clarification.

Ok then here is a nice little slice for you.
Why if you choose to destroy do you go shoot a glass tube. Star child could say absolutly nothing and you should have no knowledge f how to activate destroy. There is no precedent for a machine designed to work once you shoot it until it explodes. Noone mentions how you activate the crucible. The people who built it thought it would auto fire. Star Child doesnt need to tell sheppard anything about destroy and he will have no way of activating it. 

I will have no further discussion with you because you obviously do not understand or do not read my answers. I just stated in that last reply exactly why red is always there, and why it is always an option. You realise in IT that you're not actually on the citadel, right!? You were knocked out by Harbingers beam on the final run, but you haven't woken up yet. Again, please read any article on IT, they all explain this.

First off realise i wrote this in response to a previous statement therefore you cannot chastize me for not reading a response you posted while i was typing.
I have read IT articles and watched viedos and i still refute it. You have yet to explain why Star child even needs to tell me i CAN destroy. So what if its my dream of an inner conflict. Why does the person attempting to corrupt my mind explain to me how i can fight him off?

[n00bsauce2010]

LumbercracK wrote...

I have a really hard time beleiving the EA would let them make a game with a false end. It's even harder to beleive When EA is getting hurt bad in stocks and has a golden POO award, that they would be fine with letting this rage go on. 

I can understand the idea that the trees from the dreams are their and that things are wierd in allot of ways. But i cannot imagine a creative director deciding to make a dream sequence look like one by making it glitchy and inconsistant. 

The other big question is if IT is true Then why do the relays get destroyed. Shep should know thats a terrible thing. Why arent the options presented with a better set of options if their not even real.

Essentially my argument is: If IT is true and this is all a dream to convince sheppard to become indoctrinated then why is the attempt to convince shep so weak? Why is shep not given better options? Why do they even explain the destroy option?

Saren was indoctrinated with the ultimatum, Join us or Die.
TIM was indoctrinated with the ultimatum, Control them or humanity will not succeed.
Why is shep's Join/control us or the geth die?

It is such a weak attempt to indoctrinate.

How exactly is it weak?

Shepard has been given the ultimatum many times and ignored it. Obviously with a strong-willed individual.. it doesn't work so easily.

Saren and TIM were indoctrinated with ultimatums easily because their willpower was utter sh*t.

To indoctrinate shepard, they have to trick him...and it has to be subtle. He cannot know that an indoctrination attempt is occuring or else he would easily reject it... just as he has before with Sovereign or Harbinger.

It doesn't really matter what the options are. There is one good and one bad.. and then the compromise made in order to trick Shepard even more. They are making shepard believe these options are viable.. and his mind is telling himself that he has made the right decision...no matter if it leads to him being indoctrinated.