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[BatmanTurian]

Arian Dynas wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, shameless self-promoting bump! 

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, an interesting thing I noticed. During the fight with him, one of the things Kai Leng says is "We evolve, or we die" recall that Leng is fully indoctrinated. A bit more fodder for the "Reapers see themselves as the end of evolution" theory.

I've been thinking about it, and I think I've got the Reapers figured out.

Here's the "birth" of the Reapers in my opinion;
*snip*

And I still really like it. You should seriously apply to Bioware, Arian.

Why thank you, your compliments are kind. I'd personally consider it (after all, has Bioware themselves not said that they create the games they want to see?) and it would be a great job, but I wouldn't even know where to begin.

On the plus side, give me a few years and I can send you a copy of my novels when they hit print :happy:.

Who knows? Give me another 7 to 10 years and Musyka might not be the only person at Bioware with the title of "Doctor".

Hey, I'm working on some novels too. Maybe we can compare someday when we finish

[Arian Dynas]

Something just occurred to me.

Husks are shown (when you shoot 'em open) to have their brains primarily intact, correct?

For a while I was wondering how it was that Reapers could incorporate the minds of the people they kill into the nascent Reaper, especially since they use so many in the creation of Husks.

Then I realized, it's like what happened to Shepard, their brains are preserved, almost as though in formaldehyde, until the Husk is killed. Then, the brain itself is rendered down into material for building, and the content of the brain is copied, the neural pathways( which a Blue Box mimics, it's own unique electrical currents bearing similarities to synaptic pathways) Shepard was able to be brought back because his neural pathways had not degraded.

It also explains why a head-shot works on them, the brain is a necessity still, in an otherwise dead body.

[RADIUMEYEZ]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Something just occurred to me.

Husks are shown (when you shoot 'em open) to have their brains primarily intact, correct?

For a while I was wondering how it was that Reapers could incorporate the minds of the people they kill into the nascent Reaper, especially since they use so many in the creation of Husks.

Then I realized, it's like what happened to Shepard, their brains are preserved, almost as though in formaldehyde, until the Husk is killed. Then, the brain itself is rendered down into material for building, and the content of the brain is copied, the neural pathways( which a Blue Box mimics, it's own unique electrical currents bearing similarities to synaptic pathways) Shepard was able to be brought back because his neural pathways had not degraded.

It also explains why a head-shot works on them, the brain is a necessity still, in an otherwise dead body.

Good thought and it makes sense.

[Arian Dynas]

 

BatmanTurian wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, shameless self-promoting bump! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, an interesting thing I noticed. During the fight with him, one of the things Kai Leng says is "We evolve, or we die" recall that Leng is fully indoctrinated. A bit more fodder for the "Reapers see themselves as the end of evolution" theory.

I've been thinking about it, and I think I've got the Reapers figured out.

Here's the "birth" of the Reapers in my opinion;
*snip*

And I still really like it. You should seriously apply to Bioware, Arian.

Why thank you, your compliments are kind. I'd personally consider it (after all, has Bioware themselves not said that they create the games they want to see?) and it would be a great job, but I wouldn't even know where to begin.

On the plus side, give me a few years and I can send you a copy of my novels when they hit print [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie].

Who knows? Give me another 7 to 10 years and Musyka might not be the only person at Bioware with the title of "Doctor".

Hey, I'm working on some novels too. Maybe we can compare someday when we finish [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

 

Sure! Why not?

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Someone had a theory to the origin of the Reapers? Can't find it in the last 5 pages or so, lay it on me. Or was someone just making fun of something?

It's mine. Scroll up. Page 1623. You skimmed before posting didn't ya?

[spotlessvoid]

Clearly, the reapers/starchild are not empathetic to other sentient life forms. Absolutely no care for the suffering of living beings is shown. Organic civilization may not be as advanced, but it is self aware. This capacity for abstract thought makes the humans to ants = reapers to humans line of reasoning flat out false. Since there is no apparent inherent need for organic life existing in the galaxy and the reapers/starchild are clearly not benevolent towards organic life, it obviously implies that reaper/starchild motivations are driven by self interest. This totally debunks the idea that reapers/starchild are acting on behalf of organic life.
Based on the fact that they don't wipe out ALL organic life and return in 50k year cycles, as opposed to when the need arises, my assumption is that they harvest organic life for sustenance. Whatever that specifically means I have no idea, but the Reapers/starchild are doing this for selfish reasons and not out of compassion or altruism. Starchild is either lying or some broken rogue AI from some long forgotten age. What he states is not only a textbook example of circular logic, it is undeniably contradicted by the Reapers actions.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Someone had a theory to the origin of the Reapers? Can't find it in the last 5 pages or so, lay it on me. Or was someone just making fun of something?

It's mine. Scroll up. Page 1623. You skimmed before posting didn't ya?

Guilty! I skimmed like you wouldn't believe, but didn't think to check the page I was posting on ^^;. Reading now, and thanks.

[Arian Dynas]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Clearly, the reapers/starchild are not empathetic to other sentient life forms. Absolutely no care for the suffering of living beings is shown. Organic civilization may not be as advanced, but it is self aware. This capacity for abstract thought makes the humans to ants = reapers to humans line of reasoning flat out false. Since there is no apparent inherent need for organic life existing in the galaxy and the reapers/starchild are clearly not benevolent towards organic life, it obviously implies that reaper/starchild motivations are driven by self interest. This totally debunks the idea that reapers/starchild are acting on behalf of organic life.
Based on the fact that they don't wipe out ALL organic life and return in 50k year cycles, as opposed to when the need arises, my assumption is that they harvest organic life for sustenance. Whatever that specifically means I have no idea, but the Reapers/starchild are doing this for selfish reasons and not out of compassion or altruism. Starchild is either lying or some broken rogue AI from some long forgotten age. What he states is not only a textbook example of circular logic, it is undeniably contradicted by the Reapers actions.

The thing about that, they don't see themselves as killing us. They beleive they are helping our final evolution along.

"I am the Harbinger of your Perfection."

"You are bacteria."

"Evolution cannot be stopped."

"Embrace Perfection."

"Surrender your form to us."

"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance!"

"We are your genetic destiny."

"Progress cannot be halted."

"We are your destiny."

All quotes from Harbinger's own mouth. They clearly see individuals unimportant except where they can derive benefits from them. They beleive mankind has a destiny to fulfill.

[spotlessvoid]

Ascending organic life to Reaper form against their will shows a lack of respect for the self determination of other living beings. Maybe the Reapers view this as what's best for organic life, but it clearly demonstrates their lack of empathy. I assume the reapers enjoy their free will and that inability to accept that right in other sentient life is by definition unempathetic. Everything they do is to their own benefit

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 21 avril 2012 - 03:52 .

[Arian Dynas]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Ascending organic life to Reaper form against their will shows a lack of respect for the self determination of other living beings. Maybe the Reapers view this as what's best for organic life, but it clearly demonstrates their lack of empathy. I assume the reapers enjoy their free will and that inability to accept that right in other sentient life is by definition unempathetic. Everything they do is to their own benefit

I never said they were RIGHT, I am merely stating what they have indicated in the past that they beleive.

Besides, alot of humas lack respect for the self-determination of others *cough*every"facist"laweverpassedtodate*cough*

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 21 avril 2012 - 03:57 .

[FreedMason]

Arian Dynas wrote...

The thing about that, they don't see themselves as killing us. They beleive they are helping our final evolution along.

"I am the Harbinger of your Perfection."

"You are bacteria."

"Evolution cannot be stopped."

"Embrace Perfection."

"Surrender your form to us."

"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance!"

"We are your genetic destiny."

"Progress cannot be halted."

"We are your destiny."

All quotes from Harbinger's own mouth. They clearly see individuals unimportant except where they can derive benefits from them. They beleive mankind has a destiny to fulfill.

This forum moves too damn fast. I wanted to ask, does anyone know if other people besides Shepard/the audience heard Harbinger? I assume they see the Collectors he possessed, however, I dunno if anyone besides Shepard heard him speak, it was not like Soverign and his grand entrance. It may be minor, but I was curious.

[spotlessvoid]

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Clearly, the reapers/starchild are not empathetic to other sentient life forms. Absolutely no care for the suffering of living beings is shown. Organic civilization may not be as advanced, but it is self aware. This capacity for abstract thought makes the humans to ants = reapers to humans line of reasoning flat out false. Since there is no apparent inherent need for organic life existing in the galaxy and the reapers/starchild are clearly not benevolent towards organic life, it obviously implies that reaper/starchild motivations are driven by self interest. This totally debunks the idea that reapers/starchild are acting on behalf of organic life.
Based on the fact that they don't wipe out ALL organic life and return in 50k year cycles, as opposed to when the need arises, my assumption is that they harvest organic life for sustenance. Whatever that specifically means I have no idea, but the Reapers/starchild are doing this for selfish reasons and not out of compassion or altruism. Starchild is either lying or some broken rogue AI from some long forgotten age. What he states is not only a textbook example of circular logic, it is undeniably contradicted by the Reapers actions.

The thing about that, they don't see themselves as killing us. They beleive they are helping our final evolution along.

"I am the Harbinger of your Perfection."

"You are bacteria."

"Evolution cannot be stopped."

"Embrace Perfection."

"Surrender your form to us."

"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance!"

"We are your genetic destiny."

"Progress cannot be halted."

"We are your destiny."

All quotes from Harbinger's own mouth. They clearly see individuals unimportant except where they can derive benefits from them. They beleive mankind has a destiny to fulfill.

You are right, except it completely flies in the face of starchilds logic. Also, the Reapers are sociopathic.

What I'm getting at is that what Harbinger and Sovereign state is at absolute odds with starchilds presentation of the situation. Meaning either Bioware is epically retarded, or the ending was a trap

[Arian Dynas]

FreedMason wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

The thing about that, they don't see themselves as killing us. They beleive they are helping our final evolution along.

"I am the Harbinger of your Perfection."

"You are bacteria."

"Evolution cannot be stopped."

"Embrace Perfection."

"Surrender your form to us."

"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance!"

"We are your genetic destiny."

"Progress cannot be halted."

"We are your destiny."

All quotes from Harbinger's own mouth. They clearly see individuals unimportant except where they can derive benefits from them. They beleive mankind has a destiny to fulfill.

This forum moves too damn fast. I wanted to ask, does anyone know if other people besides Shepard/the audience heard Harbinger? I assume they see the Collectors he possessed, however, I dunno if anyone besides Shepard heard him speak, it was not like Soverign and his grand entrance. It may be minor, but I was curious.

Codex states that other people have heard Harbinger speak, he's under "Collector General" in ME2.

[Arian Dynas]

spotlessvoid wrote...

You are right, except it completely flies in the face of starchilds logic. Also, the Reapers are sociopathic.

What I'm getting at is that what Harbinger and Sovereign state is at absolute odds with starchilds presentation of the situation. Meaning either Bioware is epically retarded, or the ending was a trap

Considering everything about the ending flies in the face about everything else in the series... yeah, they actually had to put EFFORT into writing it so completely wrong. It takes effort to be that diametrically opposed.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 21 avril 2012 - 04:00 .

[spotlessvoid]

Anyways, we agree on what drives the Reapers.

Just pointing out why the starchilds explanation is totally illogical, both internally and as it relates to the Reapers actions.

[Arian Dynas]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Anyways, we agree on what drives the Reapers.

Just pointing out why the starchilds explanation is totally illogical, both internally and as it relates to the Reapers actions.

Never said we didn't :happy:

Also, can't wait for Rifeno to get here so he can **** and moan about how my theory still makes the Reapers silly.

 We love ya buddy.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 21 avril 2012 - 04:05 .

[spotlessvoid]

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

You are right, except it completely flies in the face of starchilds logic. Also, the Reapers are sociopathic.

What I'm getting at is that what Harbinger and Sovereign state is at absolute odds with starchilds presentation of the situation. Meaning either Bioware is epically retarded, or the ending was a trap

Considering everything about the ending flies in the face about everything else in the series... yeah, they actually had to put EFFORT into writing it so completely wrong. It takes effort to be that diametrically opposed.

EXACTLY right. That's what I was getting at. Bioware either lost their collective minds, or IT is right

[Coachdongwiffle]

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Clearly, the reapers/starchild are not empathetic to other sentient life forms. Absolutely no care for the suffering of living beings is shown. Organic civilization may not be as advanced, but it is self aware. This capacity for abstract thought makes the humans to ants = reapers to humans line of reasoning flat out false. Since there is no apparent inherent need for organic life existing in the galaxy and the reapers/starchild are clearly not benevolent towards organic life, it obviously implies that reaper/starchild motivations are driven by self interest. This totally debunks the idea that reapers/starchild are acting on behalf of organic life.
Based on the fact that they don't wipe out ALL organic life and return in 50k year cycles, as opposed to when the need arises, my assumption is that they harvest organic life for sustenance. Whatever that specifically means I have no idea, but the Reapers/starchild are doing this for selfish reasons and not out of compassion or altruism. Starchild is either lying or some broken rogue AI from some long forgotten age. What he states is not only a textbook example of circular logic, it is undeniably contradicted by the Reapers actions.

The thing about that, they don't see themselves as killing us. They beleive they are helping our final evolution along.

"I am the Harbinger of your Perfection."

"You are bacteria."

"Evolution cannot be stopped."

"Embrace Perfection."

"Surrender your form to us."

"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance!"

"We are your genetic destiny."

"Progress cannot be halted."

"We are your destiny."

All quotes from Harbinger's own mouth. They clearly see individuals unimportant except where they can derive benefits from them. They beleive mankind has a destiny to fulfill.

to stop dark energy perhaps? but since that was abandoned I think the Reapers really bealive its important to turn humans into Reapers before they can create super powered sythetics. It makes some sense. They could just wipe out the synthetics if they became to powerful but do we really bealive the organic species would be so fine with a superpowerful race existing out in dark space? No we'd of tried finding a way to destroy them or control them. There logic isn't perfect but I understand what Bioware was trying to do. (Even though I think the idea of sythetics v. organics played out on Rannoch) I don't see why the Starchild just ignores that Sheppard forged peace between Quarians and Geth. the idea was nice but didn't fit perfectly. I think it could of been destroying organics to maybe give way for the next cycle to grow. Or to stop organics from destroying the Galaxy. Or REPRODUCTION. I would of loved it to be so simple as despite being super advanced sentient species they still only existed to reproduce just like all animals.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Someone had a theory to the origin of the Reapers? Can't find it in the last 5 pages or so, lay it on me. Or was someone just making fun of something?

It's mine. Scroll up. Page 1623. You skimmed before posting didn't ya?

That's definitley a sound theory, and believable given the Reapers level
of technology, their indoctrination, their very reasoning for wiping out organic life. I
personally think the Reapers were once the flagships of the first
advanced civilization who had reached the pinnicle of technology, and
ruled the galaxy through fear with the Reapers. Perhaps species who
didn't want to submit would be turned into a new dreadnought or
destroyer.

The Reapers, however, were controlled by the Citadel's AI,
who was more than likely given a set of "laws" to obey, or rather core programming it couldn't go against. Example, "Primary objective, protect the empire from it's enemies. Subject all organics to the empire's law." Eventually this AI, the control pointfor all Reapers, may see the empire and  it's creators as a threat to themselves and turns the Reapers against them, forcing them to "ascend" into Reaper form to better protect them. Since the Reapers make up the bulk of their military, it's easy to see the first Reapers almost annihilating ALL organic life, not stopping at their creators.

In an attempt to stop them, the last of the first civilization introduced new programming into the AI, like "protect all advanced organic  forms of life" or something similiar. The programming probably would have been rationalized after being accepted by the AI, interrpreting it as "Let advanced life flourish, then preserve them in reaper form therefore protecting them from the creators fate." From there, the cycle of harvesting is born and carried out.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 21 avril 2012 - 04:06 .

[Arian Dynas]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Someone had a theory to the origin of the Reapers? Can't find it in the last 5 pages or so, lay it on me. Or was someone just making fun of something?

It's mine. Scroll up. Page 1623. You skimmed before posting didn't ya?

That's definitley a sound theory, and believable given the Reapers level
of technology, their indoctrination, their very reasoning for wiping out organic life. I
personally think the Reapers were once the flagships of the first
advanced civilization who had reached the pinnicle of technology, and
ruled the galaxy through fear with the Reapers. Perhaps species who
didn't want to submit would be turned into a new dreadnought or
destroyer.

The Reapers, however, were controlled by the Citadel's AI,
who was more than likely given a set of "laws" to obey, or rather core programming it couldn't go against. Example, "Primary objective, protect the empire from it's enemies. Subject all organics to the empire's law." Eventually this AI, the control pointfor all Reapers, may see the empire and  it's creators as a threat to themselves and turns the Reapers against them, forcing them to "ascend" into Reaper form to better protect them. Since the Reapers make up the bulk of their military, it's easy to see the first Reapers almost annihilating ALL organic life, not stopping at their creators.

In an attempt to stop them, the last of the first civilization introduced new programming into the AI, like "protect all advanced organic  forms of life" or something similiar. The programming probably would have been rationalized after being accepted by the AI, interrpreting it as "Let advanced life flourish, then preserve them in reaper form therefore protecting them from the creators fate." From there, the cycle of harvesting is born and carried out.

I don't know... it's kind of Asimov innit?

[Auralius Carolus]

So yeah, there's this depressing thread outside that says that Mass Effect is based on astrobiological theory and space magic should be expected. Did I miss anything?

*pow*
*kinetic barriers completely absorb the shotgun blast from Arian*

Did I miss anything else?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Someone had a theory to the origin of the Reapers? Can't find it in the last 5 pages or so, lay it on me. Or was someone just making fun of something?

It's mine. Scroll up. Page 1623. You skimmed before posting didn't ya?

That's definitley a sound theory, and believable given the Reapers level
of technology, their indoctrination, their very reasoning for wiping out organic life. I
personally think the Reapers were once the flagships of the first
advanced civilization who had reached the pinnicle of technology, and
ruled the galaxy through fear with the Reapers. Perhaps species who
didn't want to submit would be turned into a new dreadnought or
destroyer.

The Reapers, however, were controlled by the Citadel's AI,
who was more than likely given a set of "laws" to obey, or rather core programming it couldn't go against. Example, "Primary objective, protect the empire from it's enemies. Subject all organics to the empire's law." Eventually this AI, the control pointfor all Reapers, may see the empire and  it's creators as a threat to themselves and turns the Reapers against them, forcing them to "ascend" into Reaper form to better protect them. Since the Reapers make up the bulk of their military, it's easy to see the first Reapers almost annihilating ALL organic life, not stopping at their creators.

In an attempt to stop them, the last of the first civilization introduced new programming into the AI, like "protect all advanced organic  forms of life" or something similiar. The programming probably would have been rationalized after being accepted by the AI, interrpreting it as "Let advanced life flourish, then preserve them in reaper form therefore protecting them from the creators fate." From there, the cycle of harvesting is born and carried out.

I don't know... it's kind of Asimov innit?

*shrug* anyones guess is as good as mine. I guess we really won't know for sure unless Bioware makes a codex entry. Or maybe Harbinger or the Catalyst  will be kind enough to fill us in in Extended Cut or beyond.

[Arian Dynas]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

So yeah, there's this depressing thread outside that says that Mass Effect is based on astrobiological theory and space magic should be expected. Did I miss anything?

*pow*
*kinetic barriers completely absorb the shotgun blast from Arian*

Did I miss anything else?

CHEATING ****ER!<_<

Unless you're a battleship (not unlike your mother, oh yeah, I went there ) then a blast from a Claymore should drop em in a shot. 

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 21 avril 2012 - 04:13 .

[spotlessvoid]

why would the reapers keep setting us back 50,000 years? If they are worried about dark energy or us destroying the galaxy, why not just wipe out organic life back to primitive form? Obviously they need advanced civilizations to harvest. that clearly implies a selfish motivation to their actions.

Starchild is full of it or crazy

[gunslinger_ruiz]

spotlessvoid wrote...

why would the reapers keep setting us back 50,000 years? If they are worried about dark energy or us destroying the galaxy, why not just wipe out organic life back to primitive form? Obviously they need advanced civilizations to harvest. that clearly implies a selfish motivation to their actions.

Starchild is full of it or crazy

Possible they don't want competition in terms of AI and technology, anything past 50,000 years might have proven to be too costly for them to harvest. Also possible they just like the number 50,000.

[spotlessvoid]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

why would the reapers keep setting us back 50,000 years? If they are worried about dark energy or us destroying the galaxy, why not just wipe out organic life back to primitive form? Obviously they need advanced civilizations to harvest. that clearly implies a selfish motivation to their actions.

Starchild is full of it or crazy

Possible they don't want competition in terms of AI and technology, anything past 50,000 years might have proven to be too costly for them to harvest. Also possible they just like the number 50,000.

Of course they don't want competition, but if that was the primary motivation, then they should be setting galactic civilizations back several 100,000 years, maybe even millions upon millions of years.

Again, I am not arguing against Biowares logic for the reapers actions, only starchilds logic for the reapers actions.