57139 réponses à ce sujet

[spotlessvoid]

and if startchild is so obviously full of it, and I refuse to believe bioware is that incompetent, than what exactly are they up to? All signs point to IDT

[gunslinger_ruiz]

spotlessvoid wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

why would the reapers keep setting us back 50,000 years? If they are worried about dark energy or us destroying the galaxy, why not just wipe out organic life back to primitive form? Obviously they need advanced civilizations to harvest. that clearly implies a selfish motivation to their actions.

Starchild is full of it or crazy

Possible they don't want competition in terms of AI and technology, anything past 50,000 years might have proven to be too costly for them to harvest. Also possible they just like the number 50,000.

Of course they don't want competition, but if that was the primary motivation, then they should be setting galactic civilizations back several 100,000 years, maybe even millions upon millions of years.

Again, I am not arguing against Biowares logic for the reapers actions, only starchilds logic for the reapers actions.

Possible 50,000 years is perfect for harvest of species in conjunction with harvest of their technology. Maybe not letting organics develop enough costs them technological innovations... They've had a LONG time to narrow it down the proper number to 50,000. Also possible the Catalyst/Starchild is lying.

[spotlessvoid]

"Possible 50,000 years is perfect for harvest of species in conjunction with harvest of their technology. Maybe not letting organics develop enough costs them technological innovations... They've had a LONG time to narrow it down the proper number to 50,000. Also possible the Catalyst/Starchild is "
gunslinger_ruiz

Quote fail!
Because every cycle develops on the same timeline? The Reapers may guide the path galactic civilization develops on, but they have no control over the pace of scientific discovery/technological advancement beyond the initial mass relay discoveries. By that logic they should be intervening when certain conditions are met, not in predetermined intervals

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 21 avril 2012 - 04:40 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

spotlessvoid wrote...

and if startchild is so obviously full of it, and I refuse to believe bioware is that incompetent, than what exactly are they up to? All signs point to IDT

Harvest. Reaper "reproduction," (organics to make Reapers). New technologies uncovered by the organics. Raw materials throughout the galaxy. A flaw in their programming making them "ascend" organic life, destroying life instead of protect it. We can only guess.

[Auralius Carolus]

Arian Dynas wrote...

CHEATING ****ER!<_<

Unless you're a battleship (not unlike your mother, oh yeah, I went there ) then a blast from a Claymore should drop em in a shot. 

O NO U DIDANT!

I could REALLY go there with "drop em" and taking shots, but I'm not because I don't feel like a temporary ban.

[Arian Dynas]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

why would the reapers keep setting us back 50,000 years? If they are worried about dark energy or us destroying the galaxy, why not just wipe out organic life back to primitive form? Obviously they need advanced civilizations to harvest. that clearly implies a selfish motivation to their actions.

Starchild is full of it or crazy

Possible they don't want competition in terms of AI and technology, anything past 50,000 years might have proven to be too costly for them to harvest. Also possible they just like the number 50,000.

I don't think they're selfish about it actually. As you can see from my own theory, I think it's a kind of sick philanthrophism. They see themselves as perfect ("I wish you could see it as I do Shepard... it's so... perfect...") and want to share their perfection with others, YOU are the arrogant little organic defying their grand master plan ("You are arrogant Shepard.") the pretentious little child who thinks he knows better than they, will all their millenia of experience, not to mention far more "processing power" in one little tentacle than you have in your whole head.

Creating new Reapers is the goal, perfecting Organic life and protecting it forever from the ravages of time and the static, unchanging, ungrowing synthetics, whom are bound by their programming (see the irony?) it also makes the process more effiecent and quick in the end, with less waste. YOU are the one who is being selfish as far as they are concerned, more concerned with your own life and opinions than the lives of everyone else.

Really, the theme I THINK I see here is that organics and synthetics aren't so different. We've been "programmed" by the Reapers (every 50,000 years we act the same, and die) just as much as synthetics are, and now, we, like EDI are altering our programming. The Reapers know us very well, every time they use the same tricks, the same forms of psychological warfare, because they are all common to organics, our very most base parts. And now we are the cycle that manages to spit in the face of that.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 21 avril 2012 - 04:45 .

[Arian Dynas]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

CHEATING ****ER!<_<

Unless you're a battleship (not unlike your mother, oh yeah, I went there ) then a blast from a Claymore should drop em in a shot. 

O NO U DIDANT!

I could REALLY go there with "drop em" and taking shots, but I'm not because I don't feel like a temporary ban.

Ouch, it bites. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Possible 50,000 years is perfect for harvest of species in conjunction with harvest of their technology. Maybe not letting organics develop enough costs them technological innovations... They've had a LONG time to narrow it down the proper number to 50,000. Also possible the Catalyst/Starchild is lying.

Because every cycle develops on the same timeline? The Reapers may guide the path galactic civilization develops on, but they have no control over the pace of scientific discovery/technological advancement beyond the initial mass relay discoveries. By that logic they should be intervening when certain conditions are met, not in predetermined intervals

What was it the Prothean VI said, "Galactic history is cyclical"? Previous galactic cycles form around similar events. The Reapers have been around for Millions upon Millions of years, it's not entirely impossible for them to predict how long it takes for organic life to evolve, flourish, create FTL drives, uncover the Mass Relays and the Citadel, and from there develop AI and other useful technologies. That number of years: about 50,000.

[spotlessvoid]

I'm not saying the Reapers aren't acting out of self interest, whatever their reasons may be.

I'm arguing it has NOTHING to with protecting organic life from destruction by synthetics. It isn't a caring act in the name of saving organic life, only the direct value organic life has to the reapers.

Again, meaning that starchild is UNDENIABLY lying, or Bioware screwed up beyond belief

[Arian Dynas]

Also, since I was reminded of it, who else had Logan's run come to mind when finishing Horizon?

"There. Is. No . Sanctuary."
"All fro-zen..."
"An. Old. MAN!"
"There. Is. No. SANCTUARY!"

[Arian Dynas]

No one?

Goddamn, barely knocking the door on 20 and you guys make me feel old.

[spotlessvoid]

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Self determination is the right of all sentient life.
Why not ask? Why not embrace the wonder and unknown potential of organic evolution and help us rise to new heights?
As the Legion said, diversity in forms of life is beneficial in ways not yet even known to the geth.

Anyways, if the Reapers see themselves as philanthropists (starchilds logic) , they are wrong. They are machines of death. Their actions stem from fear. They are eliminating a threat while consuming organic life for their own ends. Starchild is lying, a defective AI, or Bioware lost it

[Arian Dynas]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Self determination is the right of all sentient life.
Why not ask? Why not embrace the wonder and unknown potential of organic evolution and help us rise to new heights?
As the Legion said, diversity in forms of life is beneficial in ways not yet even known to the geth.

Anyways, if the Reapers see themselves as philanthropists (starchilds logic) , they are wrong. They are machines of death. Their actions stem from fear. They are eliminating a threat while consuming organic life for their own ends. Starchild is lying, a defective AI, or Bioware lost it

Once again, I reiterate, I never sad they were right. But I am using an old peice of writer's advice. "A  villian never thinks they are the villian. They always think what they are doing is the right thing." Even and espcially if they are wrong.

[spotlessvoid]

Some villains do it for personal gain or carnal pleasure and completely disregard any consequences their behavior has on others

[Legion109]

BatmanTurian wrote...

So I guess Lumbercrack gave up? Maybe he actually went and did research. Nah, that doesn't sound like him. His avatar was perfect though. It really was like arguing with a meathead Krogan.

Hey I resemble that remark.

[Arian Dynas]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Some villains do it for personal gain or carnal pleasure and completely disregard any consequences their behavior has on others

Doesn't mean they see themselves as evil though. A good villian in that sort of suitation either sees other people as less important than himself, or "not real people" (see Batman villian Victor Sszaz for an excellent example of this) ore they justify it in their own minds with phrases like "everyone is out for themselves, I'm just being like everyone else."

They're absolutely wrong, but in their own minds, they beleive they are in the right. Good and Evil aren't real things, speaking objectively, it's the result of a conflict of moralities. Life doesn't follow D&D alignments unfortunately. Though personally, I usually don't think about it. I just do what I think is right.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 21 avril 2012 - 05:20 .

[spotlessvoid]

Also, I totally understand where you are coming from.


:devil: advocating

[spotlessvoid]

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Some villains do it for personal gain or carnal pleasure and completely disregard any consequences their behavior has on others

Doesn't mean they see themselves as evil though. A good villian in that sort of suitation either sees other people as less important than himself, or "not real people" (see Batman villian Victor Sszaz for an excellent example of this) ore they justify it in their own minds with phrases like "everyone is out for themselves, I'm just being like everyone else."

Not the same as "I'm doing it for their own good."

[HellishFiend]

spotlessvoid wrote...

"Possible 50,000 years is perfect for harvest of species in conjunction with harvest of their technology. Maybe not letting organics develop enough costs them technological innovations... They've had a LONG time to narrow it down the proper number to 50,000. Also possible the Catalyst/Starchild is "
gunslinger_ruiz

Quote fail!
Because every cycle develops on the same timeline? The Reapers may guide the path galactic civilization develops on, but they have no control over the pace of scientific discovery/technological advancement beyond the initial mass relay discoveries. By that logic they should be intervening when certain conditions are met, not in predetermined intervals

They do intervene when certain conditions are met. 50k years is just a rough estimate. Remember the Sovereign plotline? He would periodically "wake up" and check the state of the galaxy, and go back to sleep if it wasnt yet ripe enough to harvest. When he decided it was time to signal the others, the Keepers didnt respond to his signal, and the rest is history. 

[Arian Dynas]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Some villains do it for personal gain or carnal pleasure and completely disregard any consequences their behavior has on others

Doesn't mean they see themselves as evil though. A good villian in that sort of suitation either sees other people as less important than himself, or "not real people" (see Batman villian Victor Sszaz for an excellent example of this) ore they justify it in their own minds with phrases like "everyone is out for themselves, I'm just being like everyone else."

Not the same as "I'm doing it for their own good."

Different people, different motivations.

Or is this just you playing Devil's advocate again? Because if so, you're doing it literally this time. We're talking John Milton levels of devillish advocacy.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 21 avril 2012 - 05:22 .

[Lyria]

So the only thing I've missed is Arian Dynas getting trolled super hardcore for opinions?
Its like this tread is an ouroboros in its repetition.

One of my favorite sayings of any robotic sapiens, "The right to life is the right of all sentient beings," - Optimus Prime. (G1 marvel comic)

I wish the Reapers would take his motto to heart and just end the violence, man.

[Legion109]

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Some villains do it for personal gain or carnal pleasure and completely disregard any consequences their behavior has on others

Doesn't mean they see themselves as evil though. A good villian in that sort of suitation either sees other people as less important than himself, or "not real people" (see Batman villian Victor Sszaz for an excellent example of this) ore they justify it in their own minds with phrases like "everyone is out for themselves, I'm just being like everyone else."

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Sometimes a villain see's their actions as necessary what's it matter of thousands die when millions more can be saved. That's the vibe I was getting from TIM in ME3 but still to attempt to control beings that are millions of years older is retarded.

:O:O

[spotlessvoid]

HellishFiend wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

They do intervene when certain conditions are met. 50k years is just a rough estimate. Remember the Sovereign plotline? He would periodically "wake up" and check the state of the galaxy, and go back to sleep if it wasnt yet ripe enough to harvest. When he decided it was time to signal the others, the Keepers didnt respond to his signal, and the rest is history. 

Good point, although this really wasn't a particularly important part of what I was arguing and has no bearing on it really.

Basically my point was the that the Reapers harvest organic life to both directly and immediately benefit them (whatever the details may be of why they need us) and to stop potential future threats to them. Not, as the starchild says, the good of the galaxy

[spotlessvoid]

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Some villains do it for personal gain or carnal pleasure and completely disregard any consequences their behavior has on others

Doesn't mean they see themselves as evil though. A good villian in that sort of suitation either sees other people as less important than himself, or "not real people" (see Batman villian Victor Sszaz for an excellent example of this) ore they justify it in their own minds with phrases like "everyone is out for themselves, I'm just being like everyone else."

Not the same as "I'm doing it for their own good."

Different people, different motivations.

Or is this just you playing Devil's advocate again? Because if so, you're doing it literally this time. We're talking John Milton levels of devillish advocacy.

That was meant to be interpreted as 2 devils advocating, as in I'm not debating what you (you specifically) are saying, more so it's two people trying to speculate on what Bioware means, when in actuality we both see the hidden meaning that is IDT

Not my intent. More of an Eastern existentialist personally. I just think the difference between those two types of villains is huge. I can partially identify with Tim because he is motivated partially by saving and protecting humanity. The Reapers, in my opinion are only out for self and couldn't care less about the suffering of other life forms

[HellishFiend]

spotlessvoid wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

They do intervene when certain conditions are met. 50k years is just a rough estimate. Remember the Sovereign plotline? He would periodically "wake up" and check the state of the galaxy, and go back to sleep if it wasnt yet ripe enough to harvest. When he decided it was time to signal the others, the Keepers didnt respond to his signal, and the rest is history. 

Good point, although this really wasn't a particularly important part of what I was arguing and has no bearing on it really.

Basically my point was the that the Reapers harvest organic life to both directly and immediately benefit them (whatever the details may be of why they need us) and to stop potential future threats to them. Not, as the starchild says, the good of the galaxy

Keep in mind this is the IT topic, meaning most of us here already believe the starchild is just making stuff up. I agree that their motives are probably just to maintain their superiority and create more reapers.