57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Lyria]

BatmanTurian wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Wait.

People still think that the indoctrination is true? Even after PAX? After Bioware announced that they were "personnalizing" the endings? And all that without mentionning this insane theory?

Seriously?

Denial is a really strong emotion but common. This is getting really silly.

Denial is a two-way street.

It's also a river in Africa....

[byne]

DTKT wrote...

byne wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Wait.

People still think that the indoctrination is true? Even after PAX? After Bioware announced that they were "personnalizing" the endings? And all that without mentionning this insane theory?

Seriously?

>Bioware gives vague non-answer about IT.
>Somehow everyone against IT decides this is definitive proof against it

okay then

All of this sounds so similar to UFO's believers. You have the same tendecy to deny reality and ignore any information that goes agaisn't what you believe in.

I can't quite figure out if it's amazing or really sad.

>Bioware is asked point-blank about IT
>"We dont want to comment one way or another"
>Anti-IT people claim they were right all along

Theres literally been no info saying IT isnt true.

In fact, I've never seen anyone say no comment on something that is false. If someone asked Bioware if Mass Effect was really just a dream Hawke was having after a crazy night of snorting powdered lyrium, would Bioware say 'Well, we dont want to comment one way or another'?

[Hawk227]

DTKT wrote...

All of this sounds so similar to UFO's believers. You have the same tendecy to deny reality and ignore any information that goes agaisn't what you believe in.

I can't quite figure out if it's amazing or really sad.

I love this. Just like subastris.

Step 1) compare to UFO Believers, Truthers, creationists or [insert crazy group here].

Step 2) State that evidence clearly contradicts IT

Step 3) NEVER cite any actual evidence.

Almost as good as the IT vs. Non IT mirrors Evolution vs. Creationism because neither can be proven. Even though Evolution IS proven. Theory has a different meaning in science. Gravity is just a theory too.

[Lyria]

estebanus wrote...

protognosis wrote...

estebanus wrote...

protognosis wrote...

 I live in the South and its a horrible place for free thinkers.
Its like the religious zealots are purposely trolling anyone not agree with their dim world view

It's kinda more relaxed where I live.

A lot of christians here actually believe in both christianity AND evolution!

I know many believe in both. Its my experience that the poorer the region, the less likely any kind of rational thought is acceptable if there is a chance it contradicts with the widely held belief.

I guess you're right.

I have family living in Milton, Massachusetts, and they tell me that the bible isn't taken as literally there as it is in the southern states.

No it is not.

I realized that my previous post could be used to describe the whole IT debate. Funny.


 

[KevShep]

DTKT wrote...

Wait.

People still think that the indoctrination is true? Even after PAX? After Bioware announced that they were "personnalizing" the endings? And all that without mentionning this insane theory?

Seriously?

Denial is a really strong emotion but common. This is getting really silly.

At Pax they never stamped out the I.T. They said that they wanted to AVOID answering questions about the I.T. Why would they avoid doing so? Why not just say that it is untrue? If its JUST cut-scenes DLC then they would have!

You need to pay better attention.

[BatmanTurian]

protognosis wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Wait.

People still think that the indoctrination is true? Even after PAX? After Bioware announced that they were "personnalizing" the endings? And all that without mentionning this insane theory?

Seriously?

Denial is a really strong emotion but common. This is getting really silly.

Denial is a two-way street.

It's also a river in Africa....

so alternatively it's the only river that can flow both ways

[Skillz1986]

It was still unnecessary in my opinoon, since the topic was religious fanatacism today (not national fanaticism from seventy years ago)and i'm sure there is some in germany (bavaria for example). Omce again, i live in germany (born in poland) and i do not feel offended by it or anything..i just think it's really getting old.

[MaximizedAction]

Bioware seriously needs to drop more hintbombs. This thread shows me how we seem to have depleted the speculation fuel that we got since PAX...

[estebanus]

protognosis wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

@protognosis

yeah because thos years really needed to be mentioned...again!
And don't get me wrong, i'm polish by birth, and poland will never forget these years.
But i don't think mengioning it over and over and over again, everytime someone hears germany is the right thing to do.

It wasn't because I heard Germany and wanted to make a WW2 reference that I wanted to mention them, I made a toungeincheek reference to Germany's ability to foster fanaticism in reference to a previous post that said Germany doesn't have religious fanaticism.

 

Look, I was talkning about religion! I don't know about the rest of Germany, but here in Schleswig-Holstein there isn't any religious fanaticism, at least not where I live!

The only thing I'm actually worried about here is that the german government isn't funding our danish schools equally as their own Schools!

Then again, that is widely seen as discrimination against the danish minority here!

[BatmanTurian]

Hawk227 wrote...

DTKT wrote...

All of this sounds so similar to UFO's believers. You have the same tendecy to deny reality and ignore any information that goes agaisn't what you believe in.

I can't quite figure out if it's amazing or really sad.

I love this. Just like subastris.

Step 1) compare to UFO Believers, Truthers, creationists or [insert crazy group here].

Step 2) State that evidence clearly contradicts IT

Step 3) NEVER cite any actual evidence.

Almost as good as the IT vs. Non IT mirrors Evolution vs. Creationism because neither can be proven. Even though Evolution IS proven. Theory has a different meaning in science. Gravity is just a theory too.

yes in science, a theory is the closest thing to a law. In anything else, it's an interpretation.

[byne]

KevShep wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Wait.

People still think that the indoctrination is true? Even after PAX? After Bioware announced that they were "personnalizing" the endings? And all that without mentionning this insane theory?

Seriously?

Denial is a really strong emotion but common. This is getting really silly.

At Pax they never stamped out the I.T. They said that they wanted to AVOID answering questions about the I.T. Why would they avoid doing so? Why not just say that it is untrue? If its JUST cut-scenes DLC then they would have!

You need to pay better attention.

Its like the anti-IT people were so set on mocking us after Bioware debunked IT at PAX that they went and started mocking us, and forgot that the debunking part never happened.

Modifié par byne, 21 avril 2012 - 10:49 .

[SubAstris]

Hawk227 wrote...

DTKT wrote...

All of this sounds so similar to UFO's believers. You have the same tendecy to deny reality and ignore any information that goes agaisn't what you believe in.

I can't quite figure out if it's amazing or really sad.

I love this. Just like subastris.

Step 1) compare to UFO Believers, Truthers, creationists or [insert crazy group here].

Step 2) State that evidence clearly contradicts IT

Step 3) NEVER cite any actual evidence.

Almost as good as the IT vs. Non IT mirrors Evolution vs. Creationism because neither can be proven. Even though Evolution IS proven. Theory has a different meaning in science. Gravity is just a theory too.

Just to make clear, I didn't compare IT theorists to creationists, I was making a separate point. Although I do not hold back my criticism that the logical processes employed by some in the IT community are akin to 9/11 truthers. That's not to mean they aren't smart people though.

And btw, Evolution isn't proven, it has by far the best explanation and has the most evidence going for it that we have found, but not proven (proof is elusive in science)

[BatmanTurian]

SubAstris wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

DTKT wrote...

All of this sounds so similar to UFO's believers. You have the same tendecy to deny reality and ignore any information that goes agaisn't what you believe in.

I can't quite figure out if it's amazing or really sad.

I love this. Just like subastris.

Step 1) compare to UFO Believers, Truthers, creationists or [insert crazy group here].

Step 2) State that evidence clearly contradicts IT

Step 3) NEVER cite any actual evidence.

Almost as good as the IT vs. Non IT mirrors Evolution vs. Creationism because neither can be proven. Even though Evolution IS proven. Theory has a different meaning in science. Gravity is just a theory too.

Just to make clear, I didn't compare IT theorists to creationists, I was making a separate point. Although I do not hold back my criticism that the logical processes employed by some in the IT community are akin to 9/11 truthers. That's not to mean they aren't smart people though.

And btw, Evolution isn't proven, it has by far the best explanation and has the most evidence going for it that we have found, but not proven (proof is elusive in science)

In many ways, Micro-evolution is great proof. But that's an entitrely different conversation.

[estebanus]

And btw, Evolution isn't proven, it has by far the best explanation and has the most evidence going for it that we have found, but not proven (proof is elusive in science)

[/quote] 

Sounds familiar...

EDIT: Damn Messed up quoting...

Modifié par estebanus, 21 avril 2012 - 10:52 .

[Big Bad]

DTKT wrote...

byne wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Wait.

People still think that the indoctrination is true? Even after PAX? After Bioware announced that they were "personnalizing" the endings? And all that without mentionning this insane theory?

Seriously?

>Bioware gives vague non-answer about IT.
>Somehow everyone against IT decides this is definitive proof against it

okay then

All of this sounds so similar to UFO's believers. You have the same tendecy to deny reality and ignore any information that goes agaisn't what you believe in.

I can't quite figure out if it's amazing or really sad.

Ad hominem.  Look it up.

[MintyCool]

protognosis wrote...

estebanus wrote...

protognosis wrote...

 I live in the South and its a horrible place for free thinkers.
Its like the religious zealots are purposely trolling anyone not agree with their dim world view

It's kinda more relaxed where I live.

A lot of christians here actually believe in both christianity AND evolution!

I know many believe in both. Its my experience that the poorer the region, the less likely any kind of rational thought is acceptable if there is a chance it contradicts with the widely held belief.

South Carolina.... Racists, bigots, and God fearing Bible thumpers.

Fun fact, only 32 percent of the population in South Carolina believes in evolution. They're also statistically one of the most obese, religious, and are most intellectually incapable in the ability to learn modern education programming. A must in the near future to compete in the open market.

If I were you, I would move far from South Carolina. I would suggest urban Virginia. It would be a short hop to that state for you, and the people sound like they would gel with you quite well.

Hope I helped.

:happy:<3:lol:

Christianity is a poison that is slowly fading away:

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/01/atheism-america-religious-right

Checkmate.

Modifié par MintyCool, 21 avril 2012 - 10:56 .

[KevShep]

SubAstris wrote...

And btw, Evolution isn't proven, it has by far the best explanation and has the most evidence going for it that we have found, but not proven (proof is elusive in science)

If you believe that you can pass on genetic traits to your kids then you can clearly see the evidence of evolution at its basic form.

[DTKT]

byne wrote...

DTKT wrote...

byne wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Wait.

People still think that the indoctrination is true? Even after PAX? After Bioware announced that they were "personnalizing" the endings? And all that without mentionning this insane theory?

Seriously?

>Bioware gives vague non-answer about IT.
>Somehow everyone against IT decides this is definitive proof against it

okay then

All of this sounds so similar to UFO's believers. You have the same tendecy to deny reality and ignore any information that goes agaisn't what you believe in.

I can't quite figure out if it's amazing or really sad.

>Bioware is asked point-blank about IT
>"We dont want to comment one way or another"
>Anti-IT people claim they were right all along

Theres literally been no info saying IT isnt true.

In fact, I've never seen anyone say no comment on something that is false. If someone asked Bioware if Mass Effect was really just a dream Hawke was having after a crazy night of snorting powdered lyrium, would Bioware say 'Well, we dont want to comment one way or another'?

Welcome to the wonderful world of Public Relations.

Have you seen the reaction to the endings? There is a staggering amount of bile and hate regarding ME3 ending. The indoctrination theory was the only "positive" thing born out of this entire debacle. If Bioware had decided to deny everything about the theory, any amount of goodwill they had left would have vanished. There would be just one thruth, the endings are pretty bad and Bioware messed up.

And really, how can you ignore something like the "Final Hours" app ? There is one single mention of "indoctrination" with Shepard. They actually considered it but scrapped it because it presented too many issues with controls.

What about the endings layout?

http://img195.images...23/33611897.jpg 

What about that? Written by Mac Walters, lead writer of ME3.

So there you go. Anyone who has a tidbit of knowledge about the inner workings of the industry knows that the indoctrination theory is not something that a producer would greenlight. The expanded endings were a direct answer to the fan outcry.

Modifié par DTKT, 21 avril 2012 - 10:57 .

[Big Bad]

SubAstris wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

DTKT wrote...

All of this sounds so similar to UFO's believers. You have the same tendecy to deny reality and ignore any information that goes agaisn't what you believe in.

I can't quite figure out if it's amazing or really sad.

I love this. Just like subastris.

Step 1) compare to UFO Believers, Truthers, creationists or [insert crazy group here].

Step 2) State that evidence clearly contradicts IT

Step 3) NEVER cite any actual evidence.

Almost as good as the IT vs. Non IT mirrors Evolution vs. Creationism because neither can be proven. Even though Evolution IS proven. Theory has a different meaning in science. Gravity is just a theory too.

Just to make clear, I didn't compare IT theorists to creationists, I was making a separate point. Although I do not hold back my criticism that the logical processes employed by some in the IT community are akin to 9/11 truthers. That's not to mean they aren't smart people though.

And btw, Evolution isn't proven, it has by far the best explanation and has the most evidence going for it that we have found, but not proven (proof is elusive in science)

It's so elusive that it's actually nonexistent!  Proving something, in the strict definition of the word, is literally impossible to do using anything resembling the scientific method (not that there really is such a thing as The Scientific Method). 

*ahem*
Sorry, science geek mode is over.  Carry on, carry on.

[byne]

DTKT wrote...

And really, how can you ignore something like the "Final Hours" app ? There is one single mention of "indoctrination" with Shepard. They actually considered it but scrapped it because it presented too many issues with controls.

I know if I was Bioware, and I was trying to keep IT as a surprise for when it is actually released, I'd probably not let the producers of a third party app see my plans for it.

I mean whether or not IT is true, its fairly obvious Bioware didnt let the Final Hours app people see their future plans and put them in the app.

[estebanus]

MintyCool wrote...

protognosis wrote...

estebanus wrote...

protognosis wrote...

 I live in the South and its a horrible place for free thinkers.
Its like the religious zealots are purposely trolling anyone not agree with their dim world view

It's kinda more relaxed where I live.

A lot of christians here actually believe in both christianity AND evolution!

I know many believe in both. Its my experience that the poorer the region, the less likely any kind of rational thought is acceptable if there is a chance it contradicts with the widely held belief.

South Carolina.... Racists, bigots, and God fearing Bible thumpers.

Fun fact, only 32 percent of the population in South Carolina believes in evolution. They're also statistically one of the most obese, religious, and are most intellectually incapable to learn modern education programming. A must in the near future to compete in the open market.

If I were you, I would move far from South Carolina. I would suggest urban Virginia. It would be a short hop to that state for you, and the people sound like they would gel with you quite well.

Hope I helped.

:happy:<3:lol:

Christianity is a poison slowly fading away:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/01/atheism-america-religious-right

Checkmate.

While I am an atheist, I disagree with your statement about christianity being a poison and slowly fading away.

If that is true, how come it is the largest religious group in the world, and that it's constantly growing?

Not only that, christianity isn't a poison. It helps a lot of people interpret the world in a way that obviously makes sense to them! Who are you to say that they're all deluded and stupid?

And an other thing going towards christianity: the whole western system of law and morals are based off the new testament!

Get your facts straght before you state complete idiocies!

Oh yeah, and what was that you call it? Oh right, "Checkmate."

[SubAstris]

KevShep wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

And btw, Evolution isn't proven, it has by far the best explanation and has the most evidence going for it that we have found, but not proven (proof is elusive in science)

If you believe that you can pass on genetic traits to your kids then you can clearly see the evidence of evolution at its basic form.

Indeed, I am not arguing against evolution at all, I am just saying that it hasn't 100% proven as science cannot do that (concept of falsifiability). The theory of evolution is very strong because despite people trying to prove it wrong, no one has succeeded in persuading the majority scientific community that they are right. That's not to say that it ToE is absolutely right in a kind of mathematical sense

[Big Bad]

MintyCool wrote...

protognosis wrote...

estebanus wrote...

protognosis wrote...

 I live in the South and its a horrible place for free thinkers.
Its like the religious zealots are purposely trolling anyone not agree with their dim world view

It's kinda more relaxed where I live.

A lot of christians here actually believe in both christianity AND evolution!

I know many believe in both. Its my experience that the poorer the region, the less likely any kind of rational thought is acceptable if there is a chance it contradicts with the widely held belief.

South Carolina.... Racists, bigots, and God fearing Bible thumpers.

Fun fact, only 32 percent of the population in South Carolina believes in evolution. They're also statistically one of the most obese, religious, and are most intellectually incapable in the ability to learn modern education programming. A must in the near future to compete in the open market.

If I were you, I would move far from South Carolina. I would suggest urban Virginia. It would be a short hop to that state for you, and the people sound like they would gel with you quite well.

Hope I helped.

:happy:<3:lol:

Christianity is a poison that is slowly fading away:

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/01/atheism-america-religious-right

Checkmate.

I'm an atheist, so take that into consideration when I say the following.  Please kindly shut the **** up and leave.  We absolutely do not need this **** in here. 

Modifié par Big Bad, 21 avril 2012 - 11:00 .

[SubAstris]

Big Bad wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

DTKT wrote...

All of this sounds so similar to UFO's believers. You have the same tendecy to deny reality and ignore any information that goes agaisn't what you believe in.

I can't quite figure out if it's amazing or really sad.

I love this. Just like subastris.

Step 1) compare to UFO Believers, Truthers, creationists or [insert crazy group here].

Step 2) State that evidence clearly contradicts IT

Step 3) NEVER cite any actual evidence.

Almost as good as the IT vs. Non IT mirrors Evolution vs. Creationism because neither can be proven. Even though Evolution IS proven. Theory has a different meaning in science. Gravity is just a theory too.

Just to make clear, I didn't compare IT theorists to creationists, I was making a separate point. Although I do not hold back my criticism that the logical processes employed by some in the IT community are akin to 9/11 truthers. That's not to mean they aren't smart people though.

And btw, Evolution isn't proven, it has by far the best explanation and has the most evidence going for it that we have found, but not proven (proof is elusive in science)

It's so elusive that it's actually nonexistent!  Proving something, in the strict definition of the word, is literally impossible to do using anything resembling the scientific method (not that there really is such a thing as The Scientific Method). 

*ahem*
Sorry, science geek mode is over.  Carry on, carry on.

My point exactly.

[Hawk227]

byne wrote...

DTKT wrote...

And really, how can you ignore something like the "Final Hours" app ? There is one single mention of "indoctrination" with Shepard. They actually considered it but scrapped it because it presented too many issues with controls.

I know if I was Bioware, and I was trying to keep IT as a surprise for when it is actually released, I'd probably not let the producers of a third party app see my plans for it.

I mean whether or not IT is true, its fairly obvious Bioware didnt let the Final Hours app people see their future plans and put them in the app.

Not to mention that the app says they scrapped the mechanic, not the idea.