57139 réponses à ce sujet

[DarksBlade]

estebanus wrote...

Sorry to interrupt any ongoing discussion here, but I may have found some more evidence that starchild is lying.

The planet Aphras in the Xe-Cha system of the shryke abyssal says something very interesting:

"A unique discovery, Aphras is a "heavenly twin" - a planet in a star system that has not one but two worlds of sufficient size to retain a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere within the habitable life zone of its parent star. Fossil evidence shows abundant vertebrates and evidence of a sapient terrestrial avian species in its Bronze Age. However, the only trace of contemporary life on the planet is that of single-celled organisms in its seas. All else has suffered from an extinction event - a series of massive impacts that vaporized vast quantities of water and lofted dust into its atmosphere. Early theories that this event was a collision with a fragmenting asteroid have now been discounted - the impact craters were aimed directly at habitation centers."

This would in fact mean, that the reapers desrtoyed a species in its bronze age, meaning it hadn't even achieved to leave their own planet.
However, it is said by starchild that the reapers "only harvest the advanced civilizations, leaving the younger ones alone"
But why would they then have destroyed this species?

Any thoughts?

one possibility. maybe they didn't want to join the protheans?
... according to Javik you had the choice of nt join the empire. But then they would simply destroy you(the destroy you is a paraphrase he implies it tho)


Also sorry if it was responded to already I am currently catching up on the back log from yesterday

[Uncle Jo]

Leto_Galt wrote...


Yea Javik can be enabled as a squad mate without the DLC so he is definatly in the core game.

It's hard to accept... Sure, It's hard to Justify... Agree.

Hard to believe... Nah... I don't think its hard to believe.

To think that game-companies like CDProjekt still refuse the DLC and DRM politics and works their a** off to release a FREE 16 Go Enhanced Edition... It makes me sad for Bioware.

[estebanus]

DarksBlade wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Sorry to interrupt any ongoing discussion here, but I may have found some more evidence that starchild is lying.

The planet Aphras in the Xe-Cha system of the shryke abyssal says something very interesting:

"A unique discovery, Aphras is a "heavenly twin" - a planet in a star system that has not one but two worlds of sufficient size to retain a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere within the habitable life zone of its parent star. Fossil evidence shows abundant vertebrates and evidence of a sapient terrestrial avian species in its Bronze Age. However, the only trace of contemporary life on the planet is that of single-celled organisms in its seas. All else has suffered from an extinction event - a series of massive impacts that vaporized vast quantities of water and lofted dust into its atmosphere. Early theories that this event was a collision with a fragmenting asteroid have now been discounted - the impact craters were aimed directly at habitation centers."

This would in fact mean, that the reapers desrtoyed a species in its bronze age, meaning it hadn't even achieved to leave their own planet.
However, it is said by starchild that the reapers "only harvest the advanced civilizations, leaving the younger ones alone"
But why would they then have destroyed this species?

Any thoughts?

one possibility. maybe they didn't want to join the protheans?
... according to Javik you had the choice of nt join the empire. But then they would simply destroy you(the destroy you is a paraphrase he implies it tho)


Also sorry if it was responded to already I am currently catching up on the back log from yesterday

Why would the protheans, an advanved spacefaring species, wnat to offer a species still stuck in the bronze age a place in their empire?

Javik says that each species had to be at the point where they discovered interplanetary travel before they would be offered a place in the empire.

[cadvan62]

Leto_Galt wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Leto_Galt wrote...

True that would have been better, but before this PR nightmare happened, EA fully intended to make you $$$ for it.

Believeing IT doesn't mean you have to believe EA/Bioware didn't **** this up.

I'm pretty sure that Javik was ripped off from the game. Such an important character cannot be sold as DLC.
But trying to sell the end of a game as a DLC... It means we got ME 2.99... It's hard to believe...

Yea Javik can be enabled as a squad mate without the DLC so he is definatly in the core game.

It's hard to accept... Sure, It's hard to Justify... Agree.

Hard to believe... Nah... I don't think its hard to believe.

It has happened before, back in 2008, the new Prince of Persia was intentionally left with a rather inconclusive ending. The epilogue, which you had to pay for, began development months prior to the game's conclusion - personally, I didn't care about it because the game was a disappointment imo, but for this game: I hate that it has/may happen, but for a proper conclusion I will reluctantly pay for it. (Since I like the idea of the indoctrination theory, I'd like it to continue that, though I doubt that the ending will elaborate on that concept).

[Rifneno]

Uncle Jo wrote...

My first post may have sound arrogant. I apologize if it was the case.

I as well. Hopefully later discussions will go better.

One thing has always disturbed about the Prothean VI on Thessia. Not that it couldn't detect that Shepard is indoctrinated, but its whole explanation of the cycles and its supposition that the Reapers are maybe controlled by a superior power. I always thought it has been the introduction to the existence of the Starbrat.
I already posted about it in other forums, but never got any feedback though...

I had wondered about that as well. And more than the VI, Javik. He spouts the exact same drivel as starchild does. He even puts aside his usual pragmatic approach and says Legion should be tossed out an airlock because he's an AI, even if he's an AI that's willing to help fight Reapers. I can't remember any other time he wasn't purely "go with whatever helps against the Reapers". And of course the horror stories he tells about malevolent AI's from his cycle. I have my doubts that those actually happened, or at least happened as he claims.

As for the VI, I do have to wonder how they came to the conclusion you speak of, with the conflicts being repeated. The natural answer is they learned with that sensory ability. But there's a difference between detecting Grunt's presence less than a year ago and detecting useful information about conflicts from hundreds of thousands of years ago. And if they could detect that much, then why did the Reapers take them by surprise? Surely they would've learned of the Reapers if their sensory ability gave them enough information to determine the "repeating cycles" to any remotely scientifically acceptable degree.

Either Bioware Is Lazy™, or something's up with these bugs.

[Stegoceras]

Voodzik wrote...

Okay, that could get flipped on it's head. What if the kid were a being of light the whole time. It's a test of shepherds resolve to see if she's worthy for the other light-beings to provide some kind of assistance.

Ooh, interesting as well, what if the starchild is actually a third party testing the galaxy to see whether they are ready for salvation by divine beings and all previous cycles failed. Although doesn't really have much to with Indoctrination theory anymore at that point. More like a whole new theory, Divine Rescue Theory and ackwardly it would fit as well.

[Uncle Jo]

Stegoceras wrote...

Not really being an It supporter, but just having some fun in my head with the Theory, I was wondering, what if you guys got it upside down? What if instead of Control/Synthesis the actual indoctrination happens when you pick destroy, I mean:

Shepard is much more useful when he is alive and indoctrinated, the guy could then destabilize the entire war effort. We only see him alive in destroy, cause the other options might have killed him straight out or accelerated the Indoctrination so far he turned into a mindless husk.

But what about down-selling the destroy ending? Well, maybe they were actually testing his resolve to the matter. As far as I know Indoctrination happens by suggestions and whispers, what if they really were suggesting destroy from early on and it was all a ploy to get Shepard into the right place and position to do massive damage. In the end they test whether he is really still taking Reaper suggestions or that he is still able to make his own rational decisions. I mean don't deny that probably everyone's first idea when entering the final room was "destroy the suckers" cause that is what we have been told to do all along.

Again, i'm pretty sure this idea isn't so solid, but it was a fun little thought (for me at least) I came up with.

edit: Oh yes, I'm fully aware that the implications would be die or indoctrination, which is a pretty damn gloomy end

The War Assets are also a problem for the IT. I mean, if Shep has low WA, why do they only give him the "best option" ? Okay he's going to die, but the Reapers are destroyed...

[EpyonX3]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Stegoceras wrote...

Not really being an It supporter, but just having some fun in my head with the Theory, I was wondering, what if you guys got it upside down? What if instead of Control/Synthesis the actual indoctrination happens when you pick destroy, I mean:

Shepard is much more useful when he is alive and indoctrinated, the guy could then destabilize the entire war effort. We only see him alive in destroy, cause the other options might have killed him straight out or accelerated the Indoctrination so far he turned into a mindless husk.

But what about down-selling the destroy ending? Well, maybe they were actually testing his resolve to the matter. As far as I know Indoctrination happens by suggestions and whispers, what if they really were suggesting destroy from early on and it was all a ploy to get Shepard into the right place and position to do massive damage. In the end they test whether he is really still taking Reaper suggestions or that he is still able to make his own rational decisions. I mean don't deny that probably everyone's first idea when entering the final room was "destroy the suckers" cause that is what we have been told to do all along.

Again, i'm pretty sure this idea isn't so solid, but it was a fun little thought (for me at least) I came up with.

edit: Oh yes, I'm fully aware that the implications would be die or indoctrination, which is a pretty damn gloomy end

The War Assets are also a problem for the IT. I mean, if Shep has low WA, why do they only give him the "best option" ? Okay he's going to die, but the Reapers are destroyed...

I've heard that if you save the collector base and have low WA's then the only option is control. But I agree that the assets don't tie well together with IT. Why introduce two choices that lead to the same path and why give Shepard a way out?

Also, Shepard should wake up after the destroy option is picked regardless of whether he has low EMS or not. He beat indoctrination and should wake up.

[DirtyPhoenix]

cadvan62 wrote...

Leto_Galt wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Leto_Galt wrote...

True that would have been better, but before this PR nightmare happened, EA fully intended to make you $$$ for it.

Believeing IT doesn't mean you have to believe EA/Bioware didn't **** this up.

I'm pretty sure that Javik was ripped off from the game. Such an important character cannot be sold as DLC.
But trying to sell the end of a game as a DLC... It means we got ME 2.99... It's hard to believe...

Yea Javik can be enabled as a squad mate without the DLC so he is definatly in the core game.

It's hard to accept... Sure, It's hard to Justify... Agree.

Hard to believe... Nah... I don't think its hard to believe.

It has happened before, back in 2008, the new Prince of Persia was intentionally left with a rather inconclusive ending. The epilogue, which you had to pay for, began development months prior to the game's conclusion - personally, I didn't care about it because the game was a disappointment imo, but for this game: I hate that it has/may happen, but for a proper conclusion I will reluctantly pay for it. (Since I like the idea of the indoctrination theory, I'd like it to continue that, though I doubt that the ending will elaborate on that concept).

Are you sure they intentionally left it inconclusive? To me the ending was satisfying. And if they did leave it intentionally why would they bring out the ending on only one console?

[Stegoceras]

Uncle Jo wrote...

The War Assets are also a problem for the IT. I mean, if Shep has low WA, why do they only give him the "best option" ? Okay he's going to die, but the Reapers are destroyed...

Although I'm not sure what the lowest EMS ending is,  I think IT supporters explained it as an hallucination/dream/whatever in the first place. So whatever he chose it had no real effect on the reapers, only an effect on Shepard, I merely wondered if their results could be backwards.

[cadvan62]

With the IT, why would it suddenly become apparent when Harbinger attacked Shepard with the laser? Which is where all of the evidence seems to converge. Whilst the following events support the IT, what with Anderson appearing out of nowhere, for example, why does Shepard seemingly only have the effects at that point? Subtle hints at Indoctrination can be found throughout all 3 games, but giving Shepard the option to potentially deal significant damage to the Reapers, if not destroy them outright seems rather misguided and bizarre. Why not indoctrinate him sometime earlier in the game, and then kill him before he gains the support of the galaxy? Lets face it, even the galaxy's combined force is having a tough time with the Reapers without the Crucible.

[Uncle Jo]

Rifneno wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

My first post may have sound arrogant. I apologize if it was the case.

I as well. Hopefully later discussions will go better.

One thing has always disturbed about the Prothean VI on Thessia. Not that it couldn't detect that Shepard is indoctrinated, but its whole explanation of the cycles and its supposition that the Reapers are maybe controlled by a superior power. I always thought it has been the introduction to the existence of the Starbrat.
I already posted about it in other forums, but never got any feedback though...

I had wondered about that as well. And more than the VI, Javik. He spouts the exact same drivel as starchild does. He even puts aside his usual pragmatic approach and says Legion should be tossed out an airlock because he's an AI, even if he's an AI that's willing to help fight Reapers. I can't remember any other time he wasn't purely "go with whatever helps against the Reapers". And of course the horror stories he tells about malevolent AI's from his cycle. I have my doubts that those actually happened, or at least happened as he claims.

As for the VI, I do have to wonder how they came to the conclusion you speak of, with the conflicts being repeated. The natural answer is they learned with that sensory ability. But there's a difference between detecting Grunt's presence less than a year ago and detecting useful information about conflicts from hundreds of thousands of years ago. And if they could detect that much, then why did the Reapers take them by surprise? Surely they would've learned of the Reapers if their sensory ability gave them enough information to determine the "repeating cycles" to any remotely scientifically acceptable degree.

Either Bioware Is Lazy™, or something's up with these bugs.

Completely true. I think the whole dialogue with the VI on Thessia has been changed along with the sudden existence of the Starbrat (I wish could blow his head with the magical gun), because the original script was leaked and they needed somehow to introduce him...

Or maybe they wanted to do it a la Mass Effect (Sovereign's first appearance) suggesting that the Reapers are being controlled by something bigger.

Next time, we will learn that the Starbrat was controlled by someone else (His Mom)

[Leto_Galt]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Stegoceras wrote...

Not really being an It supporter, but just having some fun in my head with the Theory, I was wondering, what if you guys got it upside down? What if instead of Control/Synthesis the actual indoctrination happens when you pick destroy, I mean:

Shepard is much more useful when he is alive and indoctrinated, the guy could then destabilize the entire war effort. We only see him alive in destroy, cause the other options might have killed him straight out or accelerated the Indoctrination so far he turned into a mindless husk.

But what about down-selling the destroy ending? Well, maybe they were actually testing his resolve to the matter. As far as I know Indoctrination happens by suggestions and whispers, what if they really were suggesting destroy from early on and it was all a ploy to get Shepard into the right place and position to do massive damage. In the end they test whether he is really still taking Reaper suggestions or that he is still able to make his own rational decisions. I mean don't deny that probably everyone's first idea when entering the final room was "destroy the suckers" cause that is what we have been told to do all along.

Again, i'm pretty sure this idea isn't so solid, but it was a fun little thought (for me at least) I came up with.

edit: Oh yes, I'm fully aware that the implications would be die or indoctrination, which is a pretty damn gloomy end

The War Assets are also a problem for the IT. I mean, if Shep has low WA, why do they only give him the "best option" ? Okay he's going to die, but the Reapers are destroyed...

I've heard that if you save the collector base and have low WA's then the only option is control. But I agree that the assets don't tie well together with IT. Why introduce two choices that lead to the same path and why give Shepard a way out?

Also, Shepard should wake up after the destroy option is picked regardless of whether he has low EMS or not. He beat indoctrination and should wake up.

If you beat Indoctrination with a low EMS. Harbinger is just like “Well played Shepard”.....Squish.

With a high EMS we assume reaper forces are held off long enough for Shepard to escape/be rescued.

[Ravel1992]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Stegoceras wrote...

Not really being an It supporter, but just having some fun in my head with the Theory, I was wondering, what if you guys got it upside down? What if instead of Control/Synthesis the actual indoctrination happens when you pick destroy, I mean:

Shepard is much more useful when he is alive and indoctrinated, the guy could then destabilize the entire war effort. We only see him alive in destroy, cause the other options might have killed him straight out or accelerated the Indoctrination so far he turned into a mindless husk.

But what about down-selling the destroy ending? Well, maybe they were actually testing his resolve to the matter. As far as I know Indoctrination happens by suggestions and whispers, what if they really were suggesting destroy from early on and it was all a ploy to get Shepard into the right place and position to do massive damage. In the end they test whether he is really still taking Reaper suggestions or that he is still able to make his own rational decisions. I mean don't deny that probably everyone's first idea when entering the final room was "destroy the suckers" cause that is what we have been told to do all along.

Again, i'm pretty sure this idea isn't so solid, but it was a fun little thought (for me at least) I came up with.

edit: Oh yes, I'm fully aware that the implications would be die or indoctrination, which is a pretty damn gloomy end

The War Assets are also a problem for the IT. I mean, if Shep has low WA, why do they only give him the "best option" ? Okay he's going to die, but the Reapers are destroyed...

I've heard that if you save the collector base and have low WA's then the only option is control. But I agree that the assets don't tie well together with IT. Why introduce two choices that lead to the same path and why give Shepard a way out?

Also, Shepard should wake up after the destroy option is picked regardless of whether he has low EMS or not. He beat indoctrination and should wake up.

With low war assets they dont need Shepard, they already won.

I think that "breath scene" is some kind of bonus for people with high EMS. I mean  if you dont see Shepard live that doesnt mean he is dead. Or something like that.

Modifié par Ravel1992, 22 avril 2012 - 04:19 .

[DJBare]

cadvan62 wrote...

With the IT, why would it suddenly become apparent when Harbinger attacked Shepard with the laser? Which is where all of the evidence seems to converge. Whilst the following events support the IT, what with Anderson appearing out of nowhere, for example, why does Shepard seemingly only have the effects at that point? Subtle hints at Indoctrination can be found throughout all 3 games, but giving Shepard the option to potentially deal significant damage to the Reapers, if not destroy them outright seems rather misguided and bizarre. Why not indoctrinate him sometime earlier in the game, and then kill him before he gains the support of the galaxy? Lets face it, even the galaxy's combined force is having a tough time with the Reapers without the Crucible.

ME1: Liara: You must be remarkebly strong willed commander.

As far as I'm aware the only other person to survive contact with a prothean beacon is Saren and he was indoctrinated.

Modifié par DJBare, 22 avril 2012 - 04:20 .

[cadvan62]

pirate1802 wrote...

cadvan62 wrote...

Leto_Galt wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Leto_Galt wrote...

True that would have been better, but before this PR nightmare happened, EA fully intended to make you $$$ for it.

Believeing IT doesn't mean you have to believe EA/Bioware didn't **** this up.

I'm pretty sure that Javik was ripped off from the game. Such an important character cannot be sold as DLC.
But trying to sell the end of a game as a DLC... It means we got ME 2.99... It's hard to believe...

Yea Javik can be enabled as a squad mate without the DLC so he is definatly in the core game.

It's hard to accept... Sure, It's hard to Justify... Agree.

Hard to believe... Nah... I don't think its hard to believe.

It has happened before, back in 2008, the new Prince of Persia was intentionally left with a rather inconclusive ending. The epilogue, which you had to pay for, began development months prior to the game's conclusion - personally, I didn't care about it because the game was a disappointment imo, but for this game: I hate that it has/may happen, but for a proper conclusion I will reluctantly pay for it. (Since I like the idea of the indoctrination theory, I'd like it to continue that, though I doubt that the ending will elaborate on that concept).

Are you sure they intentionally left it inconclusive? To me the ending was satisfying. And if they did leave it intentionally why would they bring out the ending on only one console?

It may or may not have been intentional, but it did seem inconclusive - regardless of one's satisfaction, I too, was satisfied by the ending...but the fact is that an extended outcome to the ending was released, at a price. And the epilogue was released on Xbox and PS3 - but not the PC.

[Uncle Jo]

Stegoceras wrote...

Although I'm not sure what the lowest EMS ending is,  I think IT supporters explained it as an hallucination/dream/whatever in the first place. So whatever he chose it had no real effect on the reapers, only an effect on Shepard, I merely wondered if their results could be backwards.

Yeah true but if it only affects Shepard, then as EpyonX3 said, he should wake up, whatever happened to the Allied Forces...

@EpyonX3 I didn't save the collector base, but what you're saying about it is, in my opinion, a major counter-argument to the IT.

[DJBare]

People do realize that despite indoctrination the three options presented can still be real, right?

[cadvan62]

DJBare wrote...

cadvan62 wrote...

With the IT, why would it suddenly become apparent when Harbinger attacked Shepard with the laser? Which is where all of the evidence seems to converge. Whilst the following events support the IT, what with Anderson appearing out of nowhere, for example, why does Shepard seemingly only have the effects at that point? Subtle hints at Indoctrination can be found throughout all 3 games, but giving Shepard the option to potentially deal significant damage to the Reapers, if not destroy them outright seems rather misguided and bizarre. Why not indoctrinate him sometime earlier in the game, and then kill him before he gains the support of the galaxy? Lets face it, even the galaxy's combined force is having a tough time with the Reapers without the Crucible.

ME1: Liara: You must be remarkebly strong willed commander.

As far as I'm aware the only other person to survive contact with a prothean beacon is Saren and he was indoctrinated.

Ah, so his will and determination acted as a barrier to the Reapers, keeping the indoctrination at bay - but the attack on Earth possibly introduced doubt, simultaneously integrating the apparition of the child, which allowed the reapers to slowly take control at times when Shepard himself felt he had no control. Leading to the indoctrination following Harbinger's attack, and the mental struggle Shepard had later with TIM and Anderson acting as projections of the opposing forces in his psyche. Its a good theory. Which fits, seemingly...

Modifié par cadvan62, 22 avril 2012 - 04:28 .

[Uncle Jo]

Leto_Galt wrote...


If you beat Indoctrination with a low EMS. Harbinger is just like “Well played Shepard”.....Squish.

With a high EMS we assume reaper forces are held off long enough for Shepard to escape/be rescued.

Too far stretched...  Then with low EMS we've given just an illusion of ending... Further more the Reapers don't even need to try to indoctrinate Shep, cause they already won.. So the whole Citadel dream doesn't have any justification anymore...

[EpyonX3]

Ravel1992 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Stegoceras wrote...

Not really being an It supporter, but just having some fun in my head with the Theory, I was wondering, what if you guys got it upside down? What if instead of Control/Synthesis the actual indoctrination happens when you pick destroy, I mean:

Shepard is much more useful when he is alive and indoctrinated, the guy could then destabilize the entire war effort. We only see him alive in destroy, cause the other options might have killed him straight out or accelerated the Indoctrination so far he turned into a mindless husk.

But what about down-selling the destroy ending? Well, maybe they were actually testing his resolve to the matter. As far as I know Indoctrination happens by suggestions and whispers, what if they really were suggesting destroy from early on and it was all a ploy to get Shepard into the right place and position to do massive damage. In the end they test whether he is really still taking Reaper suggestions or that he is still able to make his own rational decisions. I mean don't deny that probably everyone's first idea when entering the final room was "destroy the suckers" cause that is what we have been told to do all along.

Again, i'm pretty sure this idea isn't so solid, but it was a fun little thought (for me at least) I came up with.

edit: Oh yes, I'm fully aware that the implications would be die or indoctrination, which is a pretty damn gloomy end

The War Assets are also a problem for the IT. I mean, if Shep has low WA, why do they only give him the "best option" ? Okay he's going to die, but the Reapers are destroyed...

I've heard that if you save the collector base and have low WA's then the only option is control. But I agree that the assets don't tie well together with IT. Why introduce two choices that lead to the same path and why give Shepard a way out?

Also, Shepard should wake up after the destroy option is picked regardless of whether he has low EMS or not. He beat indoctrination and should wake up.

With low war assets they dont need Shepard, they already won.

I think that "breath scene" is some kind of bonus for people with high EMS. I mean  if you dont see Shepard live that doesnt mean he is dead. Or something like that.

That's the thing. The reapers are arrogant as hell. They already believe they've won since ME1.

They come in knowing that they'll win. They have the citadel and th only person that can stop them is laying on the ground either dead or bleeding out. The fleets were in trouble before Shepard even landed.

So knowing this, why would they even bother indoctrinating Shepard?

[Ravel1992]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Stegoceras wrote...

Although I'm not sure what the lowest EMS ending is,  I think IT supporters explained it as an hallucination/dream/whatever in the first place. So whatever he chose it had no real effect on the reapers, only an effect on Shepard, I merely wondered if their results could be backwards.

Yeah true but if it only affects Shepard, then as EpyonX3 said, he should wake up, whatever happened to the Allied Forces...

@EpyonX3 I didn't save the collector base, but what you're saying about it is, in my opinion, a major counter-argument to the IT.

But if Crucible was designed to destroy Reapers why you cant do that? And how is possible synthesis thing? That is what bothering me.

[EpyonX3]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Stegoceras wrote...

Although I'm not sure what the lowest EMS ending is,  I think IT supporters explained it as an hallucination/dream/whatever in the first place. So whatever he chose it had no real effect on the reapers, only an effect on Shepard, I merely wondered if their results could be backwards.

Yeah true but if it only affects Shepard, then as EpyonX3 said, he should wake up, whatever happened to the Allied Forces...

@EpyonX3 I didn't save the collector base, but what you're saying about it is, in my opinion, a major counter-argument to the IT.

Correct. The dream doesn't seem necessary if you have low EMS.

[EpyonX3]

Ravel1992 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Stegoceras wrote...

Although I'm not sure what the lowest EMS ending is,  I think IT supporters explained it as an hallucination/dream/whatever in the first place. So whatever he chose it had no real effect on the reapers, only an effect on Shepard, I merely wondered if their results could be backwards.

Yeah true but if it only affects Shepard, then as EpyonX3 said, he should wake up, whatever happened to the Allied Forces...

@EpyonX3 I didn't save the collector base, but what you're saying about it is, in my opinion, a major counter-argument to the IT.

But if Crucible was designed to destroy Reapers why you cant do that? And how is possible synthesis thing? That is what bothering me.

No one in this cycle knew what the crucible did really. Not even Javik knew. It's possible that Synthesis was developed way before us by a civilization much more advanced than we were.

It's possible that there were cycles that tried to coexist with the reapers. Or at least force them to.

What really bothers me about the ending, IT or not, is that the crucible is supposed to have these three options but the catalyst has full control over what options are available to you.

So what is the point of the crucible? A giant battery, a big thumb drive that rewrites the catalyst's thought processes, or both?

[cadvan62]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Ravel1992 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Stegoceras wrote...

Not really being an It supporter, but just having some fun in my head with the Theory, I was wondering, what if you guys got it upside down? What if instead of Control/Synthesis the actual indoctrination happens when you pick destroy, I mean:

Shepard is much more useful when he is alive and indoctrinated, the guy could then destabilize the entire war effort. We only see him alive in destroy, cause the other options might have killed him straight out or accelerated the Indoctrination so far he turned into a mindless husk.

But what about down-selling the destroy ending? Well, maybe they were actually testing his resolve to the matter. As far as I know Indoctrination happens by suggestions and whispers, what if they really were suggesting destroy from early on and it was all a ploy to get Shepard into the right place and position to do massive damage. In the end they test whether he is really still taking Reaper suggestions or that he is still able to make his own rational decisions. I mean don't deny that probably everyone's first idea when entering the final room was "destroy the suckers" cause that is what we have been told to do all along.

Again, i'm pretty sure this idea isn't so solid, but it was a fun little thought (for me at least) I came up with.

edit: Oh yes, I'm fully aware that the implications would be die or indoctrination, which is a pretty damn gloomy end

The War Assets are also a problem for the IT. I mean, if Shep has low WA, why do they only give him the "best option" ? Okay he's going to die, but the Reapers are destroyed...

I've heard that if you save the collector base and have low WA's then the only option is control. But I agree that the assets don't tie well together with IT. Why introduce two choices that lead to the same path and why give Shepard a way out?

Also, Shepard should wake up after the destroy option is picked regardless of whether he has low EMS or not. He beat indoctrination and should wake up.

With low war assets they dont need Shepard, they already won.

I think that "breath scene" is some kind of bonus for people with high EMS. I mean  if you dont see Shepard live that doesnt mean he is dead. Or something like that.

That's the thing. The reapers are arrogant as hell. They already believe they've won since ME1.

They come in knowing that they'll win. They have the citadel and th only person that can stop them is laying on the ground either dead or bleeding out. The fleets were in trouble before Shepard even landed.

So knowing this, why would they even bother indoctrinating Shepard?

I'm guessing that Shepard was merely unconscious, so he gets up - not indoctrinated and finishes the fight with a real ending. But that doesn't change much does it?

If the IT is canon and the two seemingly right and good choices are the manifestation of Reaper manipulation, then you'd assume that the Reapers have some form of plan for getting Shepard to make those choices, to give in to indoctrination. My theories would mean that the Crucible choices were in fact real but still incorporating the IT into it, which does not make any kind of sense. The indoctrination of Shepard past the ending requires some assumption, which seems odd considering that the IT has made it this far to 1659 pages because it is justified by evidence.

Modifié par cadvan62, 22 avril 2012 - 04:39 .