57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravel1992]

balance5050 wrote...


Dude, the kid is telling you to GRAB LIGHTNING or JUMP INTO A LASER, and you just supposed to beleive it will all turn out ok after YOUR DEAD?

[lex0r11]

Have to find something to eat, i'll let Shepard take over from here.

[Uncle Jo]

balance5050 wrote...


Dude, the kid is telling you to GRAB LIGHTNING or JUMP INTO A LASER, and you just supposed to beleive it will all turn out ok after YOUR DEAD?

"the two additional choices are only advantageous to the Reapers not TO YOU"

Even at face value destroy is the best ending because

A. Control doesn't stop organics from creating synthetics.

B. Half synthetic beings could still create full synthetic beings.

Not to mentioon all the other logical fallacies that go along with these endings.

Don't get me wrong. I never ever pretended that the face-value ending was good/logical/coherent... or that the Starbrat had enlightened me... The actual ending is pure bull****
I'm just saying (I'm gonna repeat myself), that If the IT was true, the destroy choice had to appear as the last one, when your EMS are very high...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 22 avril 2012 - 08:16 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

lex0r11 wrote...

Have to find something to eat, i'll let Shepard take over from here.

Listening to "Remember the name" right as you post this epic piece

[MaximizedAction]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

One thing that has always bugged me: Godchild pretty clearly wants you to use the Crucible. I mean, he goes so far as to bring you to him so you'll be able to use it.

He also claims he controls the Reapers.

Why would the Reapers destroy the Crucible if you take too long to decide?

Is he just full of crap?

Or is his logic biting him in the ass? Are the created (Reapers) finally rebelling against the creators (Godchild)?

It is interesting that they make a point to tell you "the crucible has been destroyed" when the kid just told you that he "controls" them.

Dude.. maybe the Reapers were INDEED rebelling against the godchild. Maybe the Catalyst really created them (for whatever purpose). And maybe he gave them a mission - one they always fulfilled, until now. Maybe they were trying to destroy him, hence trying to get into the Citadel. So he WANTED Shep to get that far so he could solve the Reaper thread - because it was a threat to himself, and he had lost control over them.

Yeah, far-fetched, but I think it's  a nice theory.

While it does indeed sound plausible, if this is what really takes place, then this would (this time for real) introduce a completely new plot development quite late in the story. Of course, whether or not this is a problem depends strongly
on whether this was in fact the absolute end of our trilogy.

[Uncle Jo]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...


I can only agree there, but i am having an even harder time wrapping my head around issues like how Shepard was supposed to have survived in the Destroy ending, why Joker and Crew were running and how Synthesis is even possible...or just the fact that Shepard simply accepts the Star Brats words at face value despite having witnessed events contradicting the very thing Starbrat is claiming...

To me Indoctrination Theory makes sense and even more importantly it allows me to explain those massive holes even if it is not the simpliest of theories.

Same here. I do think the IT is way more coherent than the Godchild story. I simply doubt it was on Biowares mind...

[balance5050]

Uncle Jo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Dude, the kid is telling you to GRAB LIGHTNING or JUMP INTO A LASER, and you just supposed to beleive it will all turn out ok after YOUR DEAD?

"the two additional choices are only advantageous to the Reapers not TO YOU"

Even at face value destroy is the best ending because

A. Control doesn't stop organics from creating synthetics.

B. Half synthetic beings could still create full synthetic beings.

Not to mentioon all the other logical fallacies that go along with these endings.

Don't get me wrong. I never ever pretended that the face-value ending was good/logical/coherent... or that the Starbrat had enlightened me... The actual ending is pure bull****
I'm just saying (I'm gonna repeat myself), that If the IT the destroy choice had to appear as the last one, when your EMS are very high...

It truly is the hardest to get, synthesis seems awesome, but if you can get EVEN MORE EMS and choose destroy, that's the only way to get the ultimate clue of the "Shepard Alive" scene, There is no denying that you have to have 4000 EMS to get the "Shep Alive" scene. It requires EVEN MORE EMS than synthesis. Bioware did this, we are just explaining why.

[Rifneno]

Uncle Jo wrote...

I accept your assumption. But no, I don't agree with you. With low EMS, you're nothing, you already lose. I (the Reapers) won't even bother to try to endoctrinate you (and certainly not give you the choice who could destroy me or breaks the indoctrination).

Edit: IMO if the IT was true, the destroy choice would have appeared as last choice, when your EMS are the highest

IMO the reason for the choice/EMS structure is because this isn't just the Reapers trying to indoctrinate Shepard, it's also the writers trying to fool (indoctrinate) the player. It'd be a mighty big red flag if the option that seemed the worst at face value was the one held back the longest. Admittedly this is kind of shaky logic, but also consider that you need 4000/5000+ EMS for Shepard to survive even with the destroy choice. So while Shepard gets the destroy choice very early, he's not living to do anything about it. Like killing Reapers. Perhaps it's not so much "Shepard sucks, why bother indoctrinating" as it is "Shepard's dead anyway, that banshee is loving him long time, why bother indoctrinating".

[Uncle Jo]

balance5050 wrote...


It truly is the hardest to get, synthesis seems awesome, but if you can get EVEN MORE EMS and choose destroy, that's the only way to get the ultimate clue of the "Shepard Alive" scene, There is no denying that you have to have 4000 EMS to get the "Shep Alive" scene. It requires EVEN MORE EMS than synthesis. Bioware did this, we are just explaining why.

I know the IT by heart and I don't like your condescending attitude. Read my previous posts. I never said the IT sucks. If you want to chat, then show some respect toward the others. Or don't talk to me, I've never asked anything from you.

Regards

[paxxton]

I'm replaying the Cronos Station mission and bumped into a piece of information that might shed some new light on the IT. The entry on the 2nd terminal shows the Illusive Man ordering a scientist to fit EDI with Reaper tech. The scientist is afraid that if EDI persuades a crewman to unshackle her the consequences could be dire (it's implied). Joker unshackled her in ME2.

Now, we all know that TIM objected Miranda's idea to implant Shepard with a control chip. He wanted Shepard to be exactly like he was before his death at the beginning of ME2. Harbinger also wants to preserve Shepard's body. But neither of them would have any objections to indoctrinate him.

Now, if EDI is Reaper tech, she can indoctrinate people in close proximity (James' hum hearings). At the same time she can be very persuasive and persistent.

Modifié par paxxton, 22 avril 2012 - 08:27 .

[Rifneno]

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying the Cronos Station mission and bumped into a piece of information that might shed some new light on the IT. The entry on the 2nd terminal shows the Illusive Man ordering a scientist to fit EDI with Reaper tech. The scientist is afraid that if EDI persuades a crewman to unshackle her the consequences could be dire (it's implied). Joker unshackled her in ME2.

Now, we all know that TIM objected Miranda's idea to implant Shepard with a control chip. He wanted Shepard to be exactly like he was before his death at the beginning of ME2. Harbinger also wants to preserve Shepard's body. But neither of them would have any objections to indoctrinate him.

Now, if EDI is Reaper tech, she can indoctrinate people in close proximity (James' hum hearings). At the same time she can be very persuasive and persistent.

Welcome to a week after ME2 was released.

[balance5050]

Uncle Jo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


It truly is the hardest to get, synthesis seems awesome, but if you can get EVEN MORE EMS and choose destroy, that's the only way to get the ultimate clue of the "Shepard Alive" scene, There is no denying that you have to have 4000 EMS to get the "Shep Alive" scene. It requires EVEN MORE EMS than synthesis. Bioware did this, we are just explaining why.

I know the IT by heart and I don't like your condescending attitude. Read my previous posts. I never said the IT sucks. If you want to chat, then show some respect toward the others. Or don't talk to me, I've never asked anything from you.

Regards

I'm sorry! Really didn't mean to come off as condescending. I was only stating facts about the game.

If you would kindly point out what exactly offended you or what you think is erronious, I will gladly edit.

[paxxton]

Rifneno wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying the Cronos Station mission and bumped into a piece of information that might shed some new light on the IT. The entry on the 2nd terminal shows the Illusive Man ordering a scientist to fit EDI with Reaper tech. The scientist is afraid that if EDI persuades a crewman to unshackle her the consequences could be dire (it's implied). Joker unshackled her in ME2.

Now, we all know that TIM objected Miranda's idea to implant Shepard with a control chip. He wanted Shepard to be exactly like he was before his death at the beginning of ME2. Harbinger also wants to preserve Shepard's body. But neither of them would have any objections to indoctrinate him.

Now, if EDI is Reaper tech, she can indoctrinate people in close proximity (James' hum hearings). At the same time she can be very persuasive and persistent.

Welcome to a week after ME2 was released.

And your answer was...?

[keith123456789]

Rifneno wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying the Cronos Station mission and bumped into a piece of information that might shed some new light on the IT. The entry on the 2nd terminal shows the Illusive Man ordering a scientist to fit EDI with Reaper tech. The scientist is afraid that if EDI persuades a crewman to unshackle her the consequences could be dire (it's implied). Joker unshackled her in ME2.

Now, we all know that TIM objected Miranda's idea to implant Shepard with a control chip. He wanted Shepard to be exactly like he was before his death at the beginning of ME2. Harbinger also wants to preserve Shepard's body. But neither of them would have any objections to indoctrinate him.

Now, if EDI is Reaper tech, she can indoctrinate people in close proximity (James' hum hearings). At the same time she can be very persuasive and persistent.

Welcome to a week after ME2 was released.

at least he noted somting i never noticed

[Rifneno]

paxxton wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying the Cronos Station mission and bumped into a piece of information that might shed some new light on the IT. The entry on the 2nd terminal shows the Illusive Man ordering a scientist to fit EDI with Reaper tech. The scientist is afraid that if EDI persuades a crewman to unshackle her the consequences could be dire (it's implied). Joker unshackled her in ME2.

Now, we all know that TIM objected Miranda's idea to implant Shepard with a control chip. He wanted Shepard to be exactly like he was before his death at the beginning of ME2. Harbinger also wants to preserve Shepard's body. But neither of them would have any objections to indoctrinate him.

Now, if EDI is Reaper tech, she can indoctrinate people in close proximity (James' hum hearings). At the same time she can be very persuasive and persistent.

Welcome to a week after ME2 was released.

And your answer was...?

There was a question?

[Earthborn_Shepard]

keith123456789 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying the Cronos Station mission and bumped into a piece of information that might shed some new light on the IT. The entry on the 2nd terminal shows the Illusive Man ordering a scientist to fit EDI with Reaper tech. The scientist is afraid that if EDI persuades a crewman to unshackle her the consequences could be dire (it's implied). Joker unshackled her in ME2.

Now, we all know that TIM objected Miranda's idea to implant Shepard with a control chip. He wanted Shepard to be exactly like he was before his death at the beginning of ME2. Harbinger also wants to preserve Shepard's body. But neither of them would have any objections to indoctrinate him.

Now, if EDI is Reaper tech, she can indoctrinate people in close proximity (James' hum hearings). At the same time she can be very persuasive and persistent.

Welcome to a week after ME2 was released.

at least he noted somting i never noticed

Yeah, that has been brought up a few times now.. sad thing is.. I don't want it to be true, because apparently I'm one of the few people who really loved EDI as a squadmate. To me it would suck if she was just a walking indoctrination device

[Gorkan86]

paxxton wrote...

Now, if EDI is Reaper tech, she can indoctrinate people in close proximity (James' hum hearings). At the same time she can be very persuasive and persistent.

Why only James hear the hum ? What sounds can be heard in the cargo hold on a spaceship? Under the engine deck in particular.

[balance5050]

keith123456789 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying the Cronos Station mission and bumped into a piece of information that might shed some new light on the IT. The entry on the 2nd terminal shows the Illusive Man ordering a scientist to fit EDI with Reaper tech. The scientist is afraid that if EDI persuades a crewman to unshackle her the consequences could be dire (it's implied). Joker unshackled her in ME2.

Now, we all know that TIM objected Miranda's idea to implant Shepard with a control chip. He wanted Shepard to be exactly like he was before his death at the beginning of ME2. Harbinger also wants to preserve Shepard's body. But neither of them would have any objections to indoctrinate him.

Now, if EDI is Reaper tech, she can indoctrinate people in close proximity (James' hum hearings). At the same time she can be very persuasive and persistent.

Welcome to a week after ME2 was released.

at least he noted somting i never noticed

Also the reaper IFF

[MaximizedAction]

Hey people, I sense a lot of negative energy around here.
Where did all the fine intellectual discussing go?

[Earthborn_Shepard]

I thought it was weird in general that no crew member seemed to care about the possibility of being indoctrinated. Shep and co are constantly close to any kinds of Reaper stuff. Shep even says it in ME3: "Everyone on board of a Reaper gets indoctrinated". Yet they're all like "oh yeah Shep you're strong willed and your faith protects us all from the weird mind messing!"

[estebanus]

lex0r11 wrote...

Have to find something to eat, i'll let Shepard take over from here.

Ok, that's just epic!

[paxxton]

Rifneno wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying the Cronos Station mission and bumped into a piece of information that might shed some new light on the IT. The entry on the 2nd terminal shows the Illusive Man ordering a scientist to fit EDI with Reaper tech. The scientist is afraid that if EDI persuades a crewman to unshackle her the consequences could be dire (it's implied). Joker unshackled her in ME2.

Now, we all know that TIM objected Miranda's idea to implant Shepard with a control chip. He wanted Shepard to be exactly like he was before his death at the beginning of ME2. Harbinger also wants to preserve Shepard's body. But neither of them would have any objections to indoctrinate him.

Now, if EDI is Reaper tech, she can indoctrinate people in close proximity (James' hum hearings). At the same time she can be very persuasive and persistent.

Welcome to a week after ME2 was released.

And your answer was...?

There was a question?

Sigh. Well, I suppose if you quote my post, you should at least comment on it's ideas.

[Gorkan86]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I thought it was weird in general that no crew member seemed to care about the possibility of being indoctrinated. Shep and co are constantly close to any kinds of Reaper stuff. Shep even says it in ME3: "Everyone on board of a Reaper gets indoctrinated". Yet they're all like "oh yeah Shep you're strong willed and your faith protects us all from the weird mind messing!"

Why not?

[balance5050]

paxxton wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying the Cronos Station mission and bumped into a piece of information that might shed some new light on the IT. The entry on the 2nd terminal shows the Illusive Man ordering a scientist to fit EDI with Reaper tech. The scientist is afraid that if EDI persuades a crewman to unshackle her the consequences could be dire (it's implied). Joker unshackled her in ME2.

Now, we all know that TIM objected Miranda's idea to implant Shepard with a control chip. He wanted Shepard to be exactly like he was before his death at the beginning of ME2. Harbinger also wants to preserve Shepard's body. But neither of them would have any objections to indoctrinate him.

Now, if EDI is Reaper tech, she can indoctrinate people in close proximity (James' hum hearings). At the same time she can be very persuasive and persistent.

Welcome to a week after ME2 was released.

And your answer was...?

There was a question?

Sigh. Well, I suppose if you quote my post, you should at least comment on it's ideas.

He did, he was basically saying that it's old news.

[MaximizedAction]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I thought it was weird in general that no crew member seemed to care about the possibility of being indoctrinated. Shep and co are constantly close to any kinds of Reaper stuff. Shep even says it in ME3: "Everyone on board of a Reaper gets indoctrinated". Yet they're all like "oh yeah Shep you're strong willed and your faith protects us all from the weird mind messing!"

YES, yes!

Assuming this game is not completely for an CoD audience with no experience from the former two ME games, this is rather odd. Not a single time does indoctrination get mentioned out loud by Hackett, Anderson, the people that are in charge and should warn Shep about it.

Instead it is always hinted. For example, the speaker on the Citadel docks mentioning that people hearing voices should report to C-Sec.

Maybe it's like the elefant in the room, something nobody wants to speak out loud but knows it's omnipresent. But then again, also is 'death' from the reapers but it's still mentioned by Shepard already in the intro.
Shouldn't Indoctrination have been mentioned by Shepard in front of the comitee? After all, besides getting blasted away, it is the next biggest threat from Reapers.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 22 avril 2012 - 08:46 .