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Also, shameless self-promoting bump! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie]
[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...
Also, an interesting thing I noticed. During the fight with him, one of the things Kai Leng says is "We evolve, or we die" recall that Leng is fully indoctrinated. A bit more fodder for the "Reapers see themselves as the end of evolution" theory.
[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...
I've been thinking about it, and I think I've got the Reapers figured out.
Here's the "birth" of the Reapers in my opinion;
Long ago in the Milky Way, a species arises, skilled in both science and war, they are among the first to discover the Mass Effect and move out into the stars. They make many enemies along the way, perhaps even forming an empire in the process, seeking to integrate others into their might, perhaps seeing their wars as a sort of sick philanthrophism, granting might to the weak, and unity to the individual, but in the end, they are pushed back to their home world, a dying rock, exhausted by it's population. Calamity strikes, quickly and effectively, leaving them with little time.
They realize they must leave, or they will face extinction, there is no time to take everyone with them via ship, they simply don't have the means, and would far prefer to avoid becoming an endangered species in a galaxy out for their blood. So they turn to technology to preserve both their strength, and their legacy.
Their grim sciences which made them masters of what they saw, are now put to use saving their species from the ravages of natural selection. They come to a realization. Though they will never transport their bodies off, nothing precludes the traveling of the mind.
Repurposing the flagship of their fleet, the greatest of their ships, they begin to improve it, making it a worthy vessel for their continued existence, though they find themselves lacking for materials. Turning again to desperation, they use their own bodies, their sciences having made them as equally skilled in the manipulation of flesh as the manipulation of metal.
Finally, their ship is all but complete, when a mighty scientist and military mind comes to an important realization. What if the ship is damaged? She will need physical crew to repair her, and there shall be no physical crew remaining from their great work's completion.
He finds the soloution. Their species is known for the skill at manipulating the minds of others, a technology they long discovered, and one they integrate into every aspect of their ship's technology, a power that will allow them to go to war, and if ever is needed, melt down and integrate whatever building materials they need.
Thus, with the collected minds of an entire species embodied in one physical form, they leave behind their dying planet, the minds forming into one gestalt entity. And thus is born Harbinger.
Harbinger revels in his new form, a single mind, formed of many. He chooses to take this opportunity to settle old scores, using the mightiest capital ship that ever has, or ever will be seen.
After facing his own near destruction, Harbinger comes to the realization that alone, he is vulneruable.
He comes to the realization that HE is the pinnacle of creation, the greatest of all beings that has ever existed, or ever will exist. He also realizes that his is a form that all others should aspire to, NAY! A form they should be FORCED into if need be.
Forcing other species into a form such as his is doing them a kindness, allowing them the perfection of a form like his own. He conquers several of his old enemies, turning the greatest of them into capital ships, while others, those he finds more pathetic and simple, are merely made into his destroyers. Animals of all shapes and descriptions are not exempt either, rather than leaving them to die on a planet with a shattered biosphere, he creates the first Troop Transports and Processing Ships ships from their raw materials, beginning the creation of his armada.
Finally, with a galaxy stripped of his enemies, both great and small. Harbinger finds himself and his fleet without purpose, their war won forever. He then comes to a realization, life will arise again in the Milky Way, more great species will be born to accomplish great things as his own did. He could exterminate all life now if he chose.
Instead, he chooses to grant them the kindness of perfection, the opportunity to rise to his level, the peak of evolution. Though he becomes aware, they will certainly become a threat to him, so he chooses to do what his species was know best for, and turns to science. He realizes that if he provides an easy, accessable route for them, they will take it, giving him a method of control oever them. And so, the Reapers as they have now termed themselves, begin to sow the seeds of their crop of flesh, creating the Mass Relays, repurposing old enemies as the Keepers, and preparing to wait for a new crop to rise...
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[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...
[quote]spotlessvoid wrote...
Clearly, the reapers/starchild are not empathetic to other sentient life forms. Absolutely no care for the suffering of living beings is shown. Organic civilization may not be as advanced, but it is self aware. This capacity for abstract thought makes the humans to ants = reapers to humans line of reasoning flat out false. Since there is no apparent inherent need for organic life existing in the galaxy and the reapers/starchild are clearly not benevolent towards organic life, it obviously implies that reaper/starchild motivations are driven by self interest. This totally debunks the idea that reapers/starchild are acting on behalf of organic life.
Based on the fact that they don't wipe out ALL organic life and return in 50k year cycles, as opposed to when the need arises, my assumption is that they harvest organic life for sustenance. Whatever that specifically means I have no idea, but the Reapers/starchild are doing this for selfish reasons and not out of compassion or altruism. Starchild is either lying or some broken rogue AI from some long forgotten age. What he states is not only a textbook example of circular logic, it is undeniably contradicted by the Reapers actions. [/quote]
The thing about that, they don't see themselves as killing us. They beleive they are helping our final evolution along.
"I am the Harbinger of your Perfection."
"You are bacteria."
"Evolution cannot be stopped."
"Embrace Perfection."
"Surrender your form to us."
"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance!"
"We are your genetic destiny."
"Progress cannot be halted."
"You are arrogant, Shepard."
"We are your destiny."
All quotes from Harbinger's own mouth. They clearly see individuals unimportant except where they can derive benefits from them. They beleive mankind has a destiny to fulfill.[/quote]
[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...
Hence my own theory that while yes, they don't give two ****s about synthetics, but they are pragmatic enough not to bother with races either too imperfect to be worth their time, or not yet advanced enough/ with a high enough population to qualify, but won't leave behind dead biomass, like animals, if they can make use of it. Harvesters DO make very effective troop transports after all.[/quote]
[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...
Something just occurred to me.
Husks are shown (when you shoot 'em open) to have their brains primarily intact, correct?
For a while I was wondering how it was that Reapers could incorporate the minds of the people they kill into the nascent Reaper, especially since they use so many in the creation of Husks.
Then I realized, it's like what happened to Shepard, their brains are preserved, almost as though in formaldehyde, until the Husk is killed. Then, the brain itself is rendered down into material for building, and the content of the brain is copied, the neural pathways( which a Blue Box mimics, it's own unique electrical currents bearing similarities to synaptic pathways) Shepard was able to be brought back because his neural pathways had not degraded.
It also explains why a head-shot works on them, the brain is a necessity still, in an otherwise dead body. [/quote]
[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...
[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...
A few things I noticed playing through again.
In the first dream, for a split second, the trees look like neurons.
When speaking to Vega in the Embassies, he also says "It's like this place wants you to forget" if you choose to investigate.
And yet more fodder for my own personal theory that we'll see either Collector based DLC, the fact that Vega is really the only fella without his own quest, and he has some serious hangups with the Collectors. A possible theory is that the DLC would be bundled with the anime dvd.
Especially considering, guess who's the star in the upcoming Mass Effect anime? That's right, Lt. James Vega.[/quote]
I remember someone a few hundred pages ago brought up the dream trees looking like neurons when you first see them at that angle. I think a few Theorists "dismissed" that claim but I believe him/you, they look almost too similar for mere coincidence and I really don't like using the word "coincidence" to describe more than one thing in such a story. I'm a stong believer in nothing going to waste in a good story, everything having a meaning or some significance, or at least everything in an important part of the story such as these Nightmares.
I brought up the Citadel potentially being a hub for Indoctrination a few pages ago (1500 something or so) and someone (maybe you arian?) mentioned it was already discussed earlier in the thread. Your squadmate convos add credit to it,
"In here you can almost forget about the war."
"It's like they want you to forget."
"It's all wrong, like they're hiding something."
"Everyone's walking around in a daze."
I'd go on if my memory was any better, you'd think with 3 and a half playthroughs I'd have it half memorized by now.
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Indeed, I agree with you completely, in fact, I agree so much it has it's own terms associated with it,
The Law of Conservation of Detail; meaning you only put something in if it enhances the quality or tone of your story, meaning that in a well written story, nothing is put in without purpose, even if that purpose is only to enhance mood.
Chekov's Gun; a term from Russian playwritght Anton Chekov, whom claimed that if you mention something in a story, then it must be significant later on, taking the example of a playwright mentioning a gun in the first act, if they follow Chekov's Gun, then the gun must be fired in the 3rd act. In short, if something is put into a story, it must be used, or have it's significance revealed.
Red Herring; a term used for putting in items that seem to be Chekov's Guns, but in the end are actually unimportant to the story.
Macguffin; coined by Alfred hitchcock, a Macguffin is a plot device used to drive the story, usually an item. it differentiates itself from a Chekov's Gun or a Red Herring by both appearing to be important, and actually being important, unlike a Chekov's Gun, which is important only in hindsight, and a Red Herring, which is eventually revealed to be unimportant.
In short, good writers don't do things unintentionally, and no one can deny, Bioware are not only good writers, even BAD writers wouldn't be able to put so many seemingly insignificant things that add up by accident. The statistics are against it.
And no, I will admit, I was not the first to posit the "Citadel has a light, cowing indoctrination wave" theory, and at first I found it hokey. But in the end... well, Indoctrination has a real world basis, so does a pacifying sub sonic sound. And no one can deny, it would be in the Reapers best interests if everyone on the Citadel were cowed and easy to fight.
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The endings also apparently have three diffrent boxes to be ticked, depending on what ending you picked. One was Lived to Fight Again, one was Went Out in a Blaze of Glory, and the third I can't recall the name right now.
[quote]Ravereth wrote...
Hello guys, I found THAT really interesting, but maybe I'm just seeing conections to IT where I shouldn't? *snip*[/quote]
[quote]Amelyn wrote...
I just wanted to post these links as they may help with evidence of Shepard being in London during the breath scene.
I played with the levels on the breath scene pic to lighten up the scene as it was very dark. The concrete here in the scene is identical to the london concrete in a previous scene, even down to the markings, lines, etc. Just wanted to show the comparison.
http://imageshack.us...donconcrete.jpg
http://imageshack.us...eneconcrete.jpg
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The concrete here from London is exactly the same in appearance as that in the breath scene. Also, we looked more closely at the actual reaper tubes themselves and they were formed of many smaller cables wrapped with a spiral patterned covering, kind of like the things you use to wrap young saplings.
Personally, from my point of veiw, ME3 is VERY VERY much for their long time fans, seeing those favorite moments with Mordin and Garrus, falls flat if you don't know who they are going in. That and the explanations for n00bs suck. Probably intentionaly, so they can subtly encourage people "Hey, go back and buy these REALLY good games."
Also, for why they would give the EC out for free.. one, PR, it looks good in the end. and makes EA seem "not so bad after all." and two, they will likely give it for free to everyone with a current copy of ME3. Anyone who buys used will have to pay for it, just like Cerberus Network.
[quote]Hawk227 wrote...
Actually, Arian Dynas brought this up the other night. He thought maybe the ambiguity of the ending was on purpose to serve two different groups. The newcomers that don't know all the back story and the major themes about diversity etc. get an "artsy and deep" ending, while the people that have been around for 3 games and are invested see all the things wrong with it and notice the subtle clues (like Vega's hum, or Shep getting TIM's eyes in control/synthesis) and put the pieces together. It's an interesting idea, and seems plausible.
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[quote]MaximizedAction wrote...
Also, after 5 weeks I finally realized that the 'Destroy' tube looks like a husk-ify tube we see on Sanctuary and Shep destroying it so enthusiastically means that this tube represents (sort of) Shep's defeat against the Reaper ('s methods). Smart me...[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]
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I personally STILL think it looks like the Human Reaper tube, but eh.
[quote] Arian Dynas wrote...
[quote]Uncle Jo wrote...
This also means that Bioware sold us a game without an ending....
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Well...actually it has an ending...only not a satisfying or good one. Not even close to being good.
In a way it reminds me a little of Baldurs Gate 2...I mean this game had an ending. You defeated the (in my eyes rather pointless) main-villain in hell for the power of Bhaal...but the real big plot-point, the other Bhaalspawns and their struggle for godhood and what Bhaal's real intentions might have been...all these open questions were still left open in the end...and I remember I was a little disapointed because of this.
You had to buy the Addon Throne of Bhaal to finish the journey. Of course it is not exactly the same thing as we face now, yet I don't see that much of a problem with an "ending"-DLC. And I've rather have something like this, with a lot of additional gameplay and a satisfying conclusion than a simple Extended Cut with some cutscenes...
The prodcut I bought is already incomplete anyway, as I don't own the Day-One-DLC, so why bother about a "missing" ending? It seems it becomes the norm anyway to have content cut out of already finished games
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That, and the expansion pack concept is not a dead one. DA2 was going to have an expansion, but people ****ed too much about DA2, so they probably just decided to go on to DA3 instead. I would have NO issues with a ME3 expansion pack. Also, love the Throne of Bhaal comparison. We need more people who have played Baldur's Gate around.
Even back then, Bioware proved they were capable and willing to give great plot twists and completely re-think how videogames work.
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[quote]byne wrote...
[quote]Big Bad wrote...
I still say that Shepard and co. should find a way to sneak inside of Harbinger and detonate a thermonuclear weapon of some kind. I mean, how cool would that be?!? Granted, I don't know how they would destroy the other 10,000 or so Reaper capital ships, but those are just minor details to be worked out! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]
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I'd be glad if they just gave Harbinger a speaking roll.
Hell, his actor is even listed on the IMDB page as doing 'Additional Voices'.
They had Harbinger's actor, and didnt freaking use him to play Harbinger. I dont even...
*Tinfoil hat time*
I wonder what 'additional voices' he does? Dont some people say they hear a deeper voice mixed in with MaleShep/FemShep in the Catalyst's voice?
Seems like if they were trying to be secretive about it, they wouldnt credit Harby's actor as the Catalyst, and would just go with 'Additional Voices'.
I really doubt 'Additional Voices' in this case means just random background characters. That'd be like having Kal'Reegar's VA come back and doing just random voices of characters on the Citadel you dont interact with.
You could get anyone to do that. You wouldnt specifically go for someone who previously voiced an important character in past game.
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[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...
[quote]MaximizedAction wrote...
[quote]BleedingUranium wrote...
[...]
Also, I think they knew they wouldn't have time to make the game as well as they wanted, so instead of making it like Halo 2, where they chopped off the end, or like Crysis 2, when the overall game suffered as a result, they decided, because Mass Effect is a series that's always had campaign DLC, they'll make the story end somewhere (the shipped ending), let people try to figure it out (like we're doing), and then build the ending post launch, because they have time.
Not ruining your game because of your publisher's deadlines actually does sound like artisic integrity to me [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie][/quote]
Nice interpretation!
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[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...
A few things I noticed playing through again.
In the first dream, for a split second, the trees look like neurons.
When speaking to Vega in the Embassies, he also says "It's like this place wants you to forget" if you choose to investigate.
And yet more fodder for my own personal theory that we'll see either Collector based DLC, the fact that Vega is really the only fella without his own quest, and he has some serious hangups with the Collectors. A possible theory is that the DLC would be bundled with the anime dvd.
Especially considering, guess who's the star in the upcoming Mass Effect anime? That's right, Lt. James Vega.[/quote]
I remember someone a few hundred pages ago brought up the dream trees looking like neurons when you first see them at that angle. I think a few Theorists "dismissed" that claim but I believe him/you, they look almost too similar for mere coincidence and I really don't like using the word "coincidence" to describe more than one thing in such a story. I'm a stong believer in nothing going to waste in a good story, everything having a meaning or some significance, or at least everything in an important part of the story such as these Nightmares.
I brought up the Citadel potentially being a hub for Indoctrination a few pages ago (1500 something or so) and someone (maybe you arian?) mentioned it was already discussed earlier in the thread. Your squadmate convos add credit to it,
"In here you can almost forget about the war."
"It's like they want you to forget."
"It's all wrong, like they're hiding something."
"Everyone's walking around in a daze."
I'd go on if my memory was any better, you'd think with 3 and a half playthroughs I'd have it half memorized by now.
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[quote] Arian Dynas wrote...
A few things I noticed playing through again.
In the first dream, for a split second, the trees look like neurons.
When speaking to Vega in the Embassies, he also says "It's like this place wants you to forget" if you choose to investigate.
And yet more fodder for my own personal theory that we'll see either Collector based DLC, the fact that Vega is really the only fella without his own quest, and he has some serious hangups with the Collectors. A possible theory is that the DLC would be bundled with the anime dvd.
Especially considering, guess who's the star in the upcoming Mass Effect anime? That's right, Lt. James Vega. [/quote]
Modifié par Arian Dynas, 23 avril 2012 - 07:08 .
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