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[Arian Dynas]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Do you think Bioware overestimated how many of their core fanbase would eventually pick up on all the IDT clues, or is it more likely they underestimated the ferocity of the backlash and wanted indoctrination to be a DLC reveal? Or is it that everything is basically going to plan?

I think they were too close to their own work and didn't realize how people would take it because the writers had context that the fanbase did not. So yes, it is far more likely that they underestimated the backlash, leading to my own theory that Gamble's comment of them not expecting people to want the EC was closer to "We didn't expect people to be so upset and want it right away, we thought we had more time to work on it, and that people would take it calmly, waiting for it's release."

Also, taking down the Reapers by conventional means is possible, it states that Thanix series weapons are more effective against them than Kinetic impact weapons, that they have difficulty turning quickly without losing more mass than is acceptable in a combat suitation, and that the combined firepower of 4 Dreadnoughts is sufficient to destroy a Capital ship.

Also, just thought I'd point out, I spent all this time gathering all these lovely theories and evidence http://social.biowar...3/1678#11619834  at your request, and you just spend page space arguing with Gorkan. I am ashamed of you. See if I do that again for you guys in the future.

[Gorkan86]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...


But Shepard dident tell Anderson in fact Anderson shows no signs of having heard the child at all despite beeing only a few meters away.

Oh and as for your mini-theory I do not like it for one simple reason. A perfect hero is often a boring hero and that is the direction your theory takes it.

Luckily though Shepard is not perfect. He has faced defeat and loss, he has failed before. He is a hero who has survived where others would fail, but that does not mean he never fails.

And in regards to indoctrination we have seen great people like Saren (the number one Spectre) Matriarch Benezia (A spiritual leader of her people who went in with the intention of swaying Saren form his path) and TIM as well as countless others fall victim to Indoctrination, but the subtle and the fast kind. Noone affected outside of those in a hivemind have resisted.

What makes Shepard any different from these people? What makes him able to ignore the effect of such a deadly weapon when such mighty people fell?

Yes, he did not say it's a typo.

He is not perfect, it just better than others. And he has a trump card. Willpower.

Shepard always said that he was simply a soldier. Not the savior of mankind, not the wisest counselor and not the best spectr.  This makes him different.

This is a triumph of common man. He succeeded where the best minds failed.

[Arian Dynas]

Gorkan, I worked my ass off finding a pile of old evidence for discussion. Stop wasting our time and read the first page, then if you still feel like arguing you can come back.

Addendum: Also, can I admit that I find it funny the word Naz1 is censored, where the word ass, is not?

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 23 avril 2012 - 09:30 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Gorkan86 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...


But Shepard dident tell Anderson in fact Anderson shows no signs of having heard the child at all despite beeing only a few meters away.

Oh and as for your mini-theory I do not like it for one simple reason. A perfect hero is often a boring hero and that is the direction your theory takes it.

Luckily though Shepard is not perfect. He has faced defeat and loss, he has failed before. He is a hero who has survived where others would fail, but that does not mean he never fails.

And in regards to indoctrination we have seen great people like Saren (the number one Spectre) Matriarch Benezia (A spiritual leader of her people who went in with the intention of swaying Saren form his path) and TIM as well as countless others fall victim to Indoctrination, but the subtle and the fast kind. Noone affected outside of those in a hivemind have resisted.

What makes Shepard any different from these people? What makes him able to ignore the effect of such a deadly weapon when such mighty people fell?

Yes, he did not say it's a typo.

He is not perfect, it just better than others. And he has a trump card. Willpower.

Shepard always said that he was simply a soldier. Not the savior of mankind, not the wisest counselor and not the best spectr.  This makes him different.

This is a triumph of common man. He succeeded where the best minds failed.

To be quite honest Shepard is anything but common. He is not the savior of mankind, he is the savior of the galaxy through his actions to unite it and he most certainly is the best Spectre after he litterally took down the best Spectre. Oh and let us not forget that he was brought back to life after spending two years dead...

What i am saying is that despite how good he is, Shepard is not perfect, he can still fail like any other person.

You on the other hand seem to be ashing all over the place when it comes to Shepard. You claim him to be some kind of god in terms of willpower capable of resisting perfectly what no one but very special cases has resisted before (and both those special cases mention beeing affected, but able to block it out)

And then you turn right around on your ass contradicting established lore to paint Shepard as some kidnof common person. Well those "common" persons are succumbing to Indoctrination in the thousands.

Shepard might be modest in saying that he is simply a common soldier, but anyone looking over his service record would know that is not the case. he is without a shadow of doubt the best Spectre in the galaxy and once this is all over he will be known as the one who saved the galaxy by uniting it against the Reapers. He stumbles a few times along the way as he is not perfect, but he pulls through in the end.

[pro5]

Gorkan86 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

No offense, but that is about as vague as answer can get. More specifically, what about the course of which events?

In short, Shepherd learned of the threat of the reapers. Almost no one believed him. It was in the first part. He prevented the invasion of the reapers. Just think of this one man. That's a feat. He won the battle but the war is not won yet. He knows that the impending threat of unbelievable proportions. Then the second part of the event. The destruction of the base of collectors - the best agents and executors of reapers. Firs Saren, then little army of collectors. Not much remains of reapers helpers.  Now the third part. Time for tough decisions and sacrifices. Millions of lives are at stake, but only one life in the galaxy which may be directed by Shepard. The stakes are high but for Shepard, nothing is impossible. This is the heart of the plot.

The game goes out of its way to show us, the players, that Shepard is still only human after all.

Consider:

1) Troubling dreams / nightmares
2) Your friends and crew continually express concern about Shepard's emotional state (conversations with Liara, Traynor, Joker, Anderson, your LI)
3) Joker conversation in particular is quite telling: "..EDI says that according to your armor's metabolic scans, you're under more stress now than during the Skyllian Blitz. Like more than Elysium, when it was pretty much you versus 10,000 batarians trying to kill you."
4) After Thessia, we're SHOWN in a cutscene that Shepard is basically losing it. Literally, he is losing hope and confidence in his ability to stop the Reapers.
5) After all that, and at the culmination of emotionally and physically draining desperate push during Priority: Earth, Shepard is hit by the Harbinger beam, seriously injured, and knocked unconscious, possibly dying.

Shepard is not superhuman, and if the Harbinger wanted to indoctrinate him (which was pretty much established in ME2 and Arrival), he could not have picked a better moment to focus on it.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

So, I'm back, what exactly are you guys talking about?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Do you think Bioware overestimated how many of their core fanbase would eventually pick up on all the IDT clues, or is it more likely they underestimated the ferocity of the backlash and wanted indoctrination to be a DLC reveal? Or is it that everything is basically going to plan?

I think they were too close to their own work and didn't realize how people would take it because the writers had context that the fanbase did not. So yes, it is far more likely that they underestimated the backlash, leading to my own theory that Gamble's comment of them not expecting people to want the EC was closer to "We didn't expect people to be so upset and want it right away, we thought we had more time to work on it, and that people would take it calmly, waiting for it's release."

Also, taking down the Reapers by conventional means is possible, it states that Thanix series weapons are more effective against them than Kinetic impact weapons, that they have difficulty turning quickly without losing more mass than is acceptable in a combat suitation, and that the combined firepower of 4 Dreadnoughts is sufficient to destroy a Capital ship.

Also, just thought I'd point out, I spent all this time gathering all these lovely theories and evidence http://social.biowar...3/1678#11619834  at your request, and you just spend page space arguing with Gorkan. I am ashamed of you. See if I do that again for you guys in the future.

Hey now I responded to some of those . It even inspired me to write a really big post about reasoning Shepard's Indoctrination process.

[Arian Dynas]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

So, I'm back, what exactly are you guys talking about?

I made the mistake of offering to bring out a pile of evidence and a few theories we hadn't previously discussed to sufficient satisfaction, on the condition that we actually discuss it and not render the time and effort I put into finding it again moot by burying it again.

Three guesses why I am peeved.


Oh and we figured out (roughly) how Javik can do that thing he does.

[spotlessvoid]

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Do you think Bioware overestimated how many of their core fanbase would eventually pick up on all the IDT clues, or is it more likely they underestimated the ferocity of the backlash and wanted indoctrination to be a DLC reveal? Or is it that everything is basically going to plan?

I think they were too close to their own work and didn't realize how people would take it because the writers had context that the fanbase did not. So yes, it is far more likely that they underestimated the backlash, leading to my own theory that Gamble's comment of them not expecting people to want the EC was closer to "We didn't expect people to be so upset and want it right away, we thought we had more time to work on it, and that people would take it calmly, waiting for it's release."

Also, taking down the Reapers by conventional means is possible, it states that Thanix series weapons are more effective against them than Kinetic impact weapons, that they have difficulty turning quickly without losing more mass than is acceptable in a combat suitation, and that the combined firepower of 4 Dreadnoughts is sufficient to destroy a Capital ship.

Also, just thought I'd point out, I spent all this time gathering all these lovely theories and evidence http://social.biowar...3/1678#11619834  at your request, and you just spend page space arguing with Gorkan. I am ashamed of you. See if I do that again for you guys in the future.

Yeah you put in work, that is certain. I read it and didn't have anything immediate to add so I blew off some steam arguing with Gorkan waiting for my girl to finish her work and come to bed. Now after waiting almost an hour, I'm the one "Keeping her up" typing (swyping silently on my Droid mind you) this post. She is sweet and means well, but who can fathom the feminine mind?

[Arian Dynas]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Do you think Bioware overestimated how many of their core fanbase would eventually pick up on all the IDT clues, or is it more likely they underestimated the ferocity of the backlash and wanted indoctrination to be a DLC reveal? Or is it that everything is basically going to plan?

I think they were too close to their own work and didn't realize how people would take it because the writers had context that the fanbase did not. So yes, it is far more likely that they underestimated the backlash, leading to my own theory that Gamble's comment of them not expecting people to want the EC was closer to "We didn't expect people to be so upset and want it right away, we thought we had more time to work on it, and that people would take it calmly, waiting for it's release."

Also, taking down the Reapers by conventional means is possible, it states that Thanix series weapons are more effective against them than Kinetic impact weapons, that they have difficulty turning quickly without losing more mass than is acceptable in a combat suitation, and that the combined firepower of 4 Dreadnoughts is sufficient to destroy a Capital ship.

Also, just thought I'd point out, I spent all this time gathering all these lovely theories and evidence http://social.biowar...3/1678#11619834  at your request, and you just spend page space arguing with Gorkan. I am ashamed of you. See if I do that again for you guys in the future.

Hey now I responded to some of those . It even inspired me to write a really big post about reasoning Shepard's Indoctrination process.

I know! Which is what annoys me, you seem to be the only person other than Rifneno that takes the time to read long posts!

*mutters in annoyance and sits in the corner muttering profanities*

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Do you think Bioware overestimated how many of their core fanbase would eventually pick up on all the IDT clues, or is it more likely they underestimated the ferocity of the backlash and wanted indoctrination to be a DLC reveal? Or is it that everything is basically going to plan?

I think they were too close to their own work and didn't realize how people would take it because the writers had context that the fanbase did not. So yes, it is far more likely that they underestimated the backlash, leading to my own theory that Gamble's comment of them not expecting people to want the EC was closer to "We didn't expect people to be so upset and want it right away, we thought we had more time to work on it, and that people would take it calmly, waiting for it's release."

Also, taking down the Reapers by conventional means is possible, it states that Thanix series weapons are more effective against them than Kinetic impact weapons, that they have difficulty turning quickly without losing more mass than is acceptable in a combat suitation, and that the combined firepower of 4 Dreadnoughts is sufficient to destroy a Capital ship.

Also, just thought I'd point out, I spent all this time gathering all these lovely theories and evidence http://social.biowar...3/1678#11619834  at your request, and you just spend page space arguing with Gorkan. I am ashamed of you. See if I do that again for you guys in the future.

Hey now I responded to some of those . It even inspired me to write a really big post about reasoning Shepard's Indoctrination process.

I know! Which is what annoys me, you seem to be the only person other than Rifneno that takes the time to read long posts!

*mutters in annoyance and sits in the corner muttering profanities*

I read it as well, but then I got to caught up in arguing with Gorkan...and now we have been running in circles for a while. Think i will get out for an hour or two.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Do you think Bioware overestimated how many of their core fanbase would eventually pick up on all the IDT clues, or is it more likely they underestimated the ferocity of the backlash and wanted indoctrination to be a DLC reveal? Or is it that everything is basically going to plan?

I think they were too close to their own work and didn't realize how people would take it because the writers had context that the fanbase did not. So yes, it is far more likely that they underestimated the backlash, leading to my own theory that Gamble's comment of them not expecting people to want the EC was closer to "We didn't expect people to be so upset and want it right away, we thought we had more time to work on it, and that people would take it calmly, waiting for it's release."

Also, taking down the Reapers by conventional means is possible, it states that Thanix series weapons are more effective against them than Kinetic impact weapons, that they have difficulty turning quickly without losing more mass than is acceptable in a combat suitation, and that the combined firepower of 4 Dreadnoughts is sufficient to destroy a Capital ship.

Also, just thought I'd point out, I spent all this time gathering all these lovely theories and evidence http://social.biowar...3/1678#11619834  at your request, and you just spend page space arguing with Gorkan. I am ashamed of you. See if I do that again for you guys in the future.

Hey now I responded to some of those . It even inspired me to write a really big post about reasoning Shepard's Indoctrination process.

I know! Which is what annoys me, you seem to be the only person other than Rifneno that takes the time to read long posts!

*mutters in annoyance and sits in the corner muttering profanities*

Well long posts can be quite long, I admit I got distracted half way through and forgot  I was even reading it for a solid 5 minutes. But, it does seem some people would rather argue sometimes o.O.

EDIT: I may have also done the same Writing my own long post....

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 23 avril 2012 - 09:55 .

[Arian Dynas]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Do you think Bioware overestimated how many of their core fanbase would eventually pick up on all the IDT clues, or is it more likely they underestimated the ferocity of the backlash and wanted indoctrination to be a DLC reveal? Or is it that everything is basically going to plan?

I think they were too close to their own work and didn't realize how people would take it because the writers had context that the fanbase did not. So yes, it is far more likely that they underestimated the backlash, leading to my own theory that Gamble's comment of them not expecting people to want the EC was closer to "We didn't expect people to be so upset and want it right away, we thought we had more time to work on it, and that people would take it calmly, waiting for it's release."

Also, taking down the Reapers by conventional means is possible, it states that Thanix series weapons are more effective against them than Kinetic impact weapons, that they have difficulty turning quickly without losing more mass than is acceptable in a combat suitation, and that the combined firepower of 4 Dreadnoughts is sufficient to destroy a Capital ship.

Also, just thought I'd point out, I spent all this time gathering all these lovely theories and evidence http://social.biowar...3/1678#11619834  at your request, and you just spend page space arguing with Gorkan. I am ashamed of you. See if I do that again for you guys in the future.

Hey now I responded to some of those . It even inspired me to write a really big post about reasoning Shepard's Indoctrination process.

I know! Which is what annoys me, you seem to be the only person other than Rifneno that takes the time to read long posts!

*mutters in annoyance and sits in the corner muttering profanities*

Well long posts can be quite long, I admit I got distracted half way through and forgot  I was even reading it for a solid 5 minutes. But, it does seem some people would rather argue sometimes o.O.

EDIT: I may have also done the same Writing my own long post....

Well I am at least glad some people read it, even if they didn't comment on it <_<

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Opinions won't go unread on this forum, most of us will take any logic we can get. But, you could try reposting it later in the day/night (whatever time it is where you are), opinions may differ when the rest of the world wakes up. Oh you could repost mine too! Hate to see that writing go to waste, though I was mostly writing it to organize my thoughts

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Do you think Bioware overestimated how many of their core fanbase would eventually pick up on all the IDT clues, or is it more likely they underestimated the ferocity of the backlash and wanted indoctrination to be a DLC reveal? Or is it that everything is basically going to plan?

I think they were too close to their own work and didn't realize how people would take it because the writers had context that the fanbase did not. So yes, it is far more likely that they underestimated the backlash, leading to my own theory that Gamble's comment of them not expecting people to want the EC was closer to "We didn't expect people to be so upset and want it right away, we thought we had more time to work on it, and that people would take it calmly, waiting for it's release."

Also, taking down the Reapers by conventional means is possible, it states that Thanix series weapons are more effective against them than Kinetic impact weapons, that they have difficulty turning quickly without losing more mass than is acceptable in a combat suitation, and that the combined firepower of 4 Dreadnoughts is sufficient to destroy a Capital ship.

Also, just thought I'd point out, I spent all this time gathering all these lovely theories and evidence http://social.biowar...3/1678#11619834  at your request, and you just spend page space arguing with Gorkan. I am ashamed of you. See if I do that again for you guys in the future.

Hey now I responded to some of those . It even inspired me to write a really big post about reasoning Shepard's Indoctrination process.

I know! Which is what annoys me, you seem to be the only person other than Rifneno that takes the time to read long posts!

*mutters in annoyance and sits in the corner muttering profanities*

Well long posts can be quite long, I admit I got distracted half way through and forgot  I was even reading it for a solid 5 minutes. But, it does seem some people would rather argue sometimes o.O.

EDIT: I may have also done the same Writing my own long post....

Well I am at least glad some people read it, even if they didn't comment on it <_<

I did comment on the part about the Reaper motivations and to expand on that.

Alot of people seem to want a complete explanation as to the Reapers goals (not mentioned in what you linked), but I personally think that would eb bad.

We dont need the Reapers painted with some kind of half good motivation when we allready have Sovreigns and Harbingers quotes about "Perfectionm." Just stick with that and let the Reapers be from  our perspective complete villians without any grey moraility sprinkled in.

[spotlessvoid]

Arian Dynas wrote...



Well I am at least glad some people read it, even if they didn't comment on it <_<

People appreciate what you do for this thread more than I think you realize. I often have to play catch up, but I usually try to read everything, especially from certain users. Anyways, Girls passed out and i'm about to join her. I'll check on the trees/neurons theory and report back when I wake up. Night.

[Domanese]

Interesting read Arian. I try to stick strictly to the in game information. But yeah Harbingers extra dialogue from ME2 pretty much confirms that the reapers cannot be trusted and since the "Catalyst" claims to have made them and is completely justifying their existence, we cannot trust him either.

Off Topic - Yeah I would have actually liked the Exalted March DLC. It sounded awesome!

[Stigweird85]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Also, about the child. Is there any kind of logic in the beginning of the game?

So, he's in that vent. Okay. Shep comes up and wants to help him. Now, aside from the fact that every normal kid would JUMP at an offer like that, he goes deeper into the vent. Okay. Then later, we see him at the shuttles, at which point I have to say: what? I mean.. did he sit in that vent for a while, wait until Shepard had left, then decided "ok this sucks f*ck it", crawl out of the vent, take a different path than Shepard (because you don't see him on the way) and SURVIVE this as an UNARMED KID?

The kid is simply not real.

Indoctrination or not... the kid does not exist. Possibly in the first scene when hes playing on that highrise.. but even that is a stretch for me.

Why? Because no one besides shepard interacts with him.

The vent noise that leads shepard to the vent where the boy is.. but when the child suddenly disappears we don't hear the same movement sound. And the growl.. which is heard through all sound channels.. different from the reaper in the background which can only be heard through a few sound channels. (surround sound)

If you notice when the child is near the shuttles at the end - no one acknowledges or interacts with the child.. but the soldiers sure as hell don't mind helping up injured civillians into the shuttle. There is also another lone soldier standing inside the shuttle doing nothing.

Also the childs design is unique, no other person is dressed in a similar fashion(including the civilians) even the artbook acknowledges this, - paraphrasing this from memory:

We designed the boy to look like something that wouldn't be out of place today..

- Again just paraphrasing from memory so don't quote me, the important thing to note is that the boy is wearing slightly updated current clothing as they wanted to use him to connect with the player as well as with Shepard in game.

[Skillz1986]

@arian
in my numerous arguments with very..very,very (i really can't stress this enough) ignorant people, i have referred to your ideas on more than one occasion.i have also senn others doing it as well,so you can be sure, that many people in here read/appreciate/ know your posts.

[Skillz1986]

Also..has anyone ever noticed how trolls (and i'm really talking about trolls here, not people who merely disagree) seem to attack in packs? It's like they're planing this

-hey, whatchu doin' this afternoon?
-nothin'...just chillin' playin' the game..man the ending is AWESOME
-Hey abou that, i've found a bunch of crazy people who have created a theory of their own, and while it is totally coherent...it's not our idea. let's tell them they'r wrong.
-alright. 8'll just be a minute...let me just tell charlie and frank about it, they'll be thrilled.
-alright, 2 pm then?
-see you there

[Gorkan86]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Gorkan, I worked my ass off finding a pile of old evidence for discussion. Stop wasting our time and read the first page, then if you still feel like arguing you can come back.

Addendum: Also, can I admit that I find it funny the word Naz1 is censored, where the word ass, is not?

I've already read this page. Now read it again.

There's a lot of water and repeated moments. And the attention to irrelevant details, the answer to that can give level-designers. But you can live with that. 

The theory itself is not bad, and even interesting. And like all theories, has the right to be. But I think that it is based on the lack of evidence, the absence of facts. More precisely, the lack of information. Have to come up themselves, rather than what would get a straight answer from the writers and developers.


All believe that Shepard indoctrinated as Saren, Benezia that he was subject to long-term effects of reapers indoctrination artifacts and devices.
But that's a fact, an event on Thessia. The prothean VI found no trace of indoctrination of Shepard. But we have allready  seen the dreams, were on the object Rho, etc. It appears that Shepard does not indoctrinated, at least up to Thessіa. What is strange in itself, is it not? According to IDT.

 

[Vahilor]

bigstig wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Also, about the child. Is there any kind of logic in the beginning of the game?

So, he's in that vent. Okay. Shep comes up and wants to help him. Now, aside from the fact that every normal kid would JUMP at an offer like that, he goes deeper into the vent. Okay. Then later, we see him at the shuttles, at which point I have to say: what? I mean.. did he sit in that vent for a while, wait until Shepard had left, then decided "ok this sucks f*ck it", crawl out of the vent, take a different path than Shepard (because you don't see him on the way) and SURVIVE this as an UNARMED KID?

The kid is simply not real.

Indoctrination or not... the kid does not exist. Possibly in the first scene when hes playing on that highrise.. but even that is a stretch for me.

Why? Because no one besides shepard interacts with him.

The vent noise that leads shepard to the vent where the boy is.. but when the child suddenly disappears we don't hear the same movement sound. And the growl.. which is heard through all sound channels.. different from the reaper in the background which can only be heard through a few sound channels. (surround sound)

If you notice when the child is near the shuttles at the end - no one acknowledges or interacts with the child.. but the soldiers sure as hell don't mind helping up injured civillians into the shuttle. There is also another lone soldier standing inside the shuttle doing nothing.

Also the childs design is unique, no other person is dressed in a similar fashion(including the civilians) even the artbook acknowledges this, - paraphrasing this from memory:

We designed the boy to look like something that wouldn't be out of place today..

- Again just paraphrasing from memory so don't quote me, the important thing to note is that the boy is wearing slightly updated current clothing as they wanted to use him to connect with the player as well as with Shepard in game.

And I think it is also very siginificant, that he is the only child in the whole game series. So if they only wanted to show us the suffer of people, why not also add Asari children and other children in gemeral on the citadel.. you allways the families that fled on the citadel, but never you see any children.

[Skillz1986]

@gorkan

despite the fact that it has been answered more time than you can imagine, it was not yet done so by me.

So, you're arguing that the vi did not detect shepard's indoctrination. so, if you are that analytical you may have also noticed that the protheans were taken down from within, by indoctrinated prothean, sleeper agents. so you can safely assume, that the vi's did were not able to detect every kind of indoctrination. or they could only detec fully indoctrinated poeple (kai len..implants and all). Shepard was not fully indoctrinated on thessia..but already in the process. full indoctrination kicked when he was hit by harbinger

reasons:

-on the brink of death
-unconscious
-extremely.lowered willpower

[SS2Dante]

Gorkan86 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

About the dreams.

Dreams is what they always have been. In this case, it's just nightmares, Shepard severe stress, it is not getting enough sleep too. I had dreams of far worse. And all because of nerves.

You had dreams worse than dead people whispering to you? Damn.

youtu.be/q4pqgBw_exw

Do you know what's worse than that? Hearing the whispers when you are awake.

http://www.youtube.c...czhHtqgY#t=327s

Then, up to this point everything happened in reality and there was no hallucination.
I mean, throughout the game, Shepard did not hear any voices, whispering and hallucinations, have not seen ghosts and entities gray gaze from the walls, he did not shifted memories with other team members.
And then suddenly it's all there for a second before TIM. Obviously, this effect of TIM. Its his new improved biotic powers. I noticed it for some reason.

TIM's biotic powers make Shepard hear the same whispers as in his/her dreams? Far past IT stuff that is a stretch.

Besides, even taken literally that entire scene is about the Reapers trying to indcotrinate Shepard through TIM (hence the overlay and the continous Reaper growls). Now, lets do a proof:

1.In the literal interpretation, hearing the whispers in this scene implies that the whispers are connected to the indoctrination process.

2.This implies that the dreams has something to do with indoctrination.

3. This implies IT

The only way to contradict this argument is to say that the whispers are NOT indicitive of attempted indoctrination, and the only way to argue that is to say that no indoctrination attempt is being made in the TIM scene. And if you argue that I'm sorry but you're crazy. Even the staunchest anti IT guy has to give me that.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Vahilor wrote...

bigstig wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Also, about the child. Is there any kind of logic in the beginning of the game?

So, he's in that vent. Okay. Shep comes up and wants to help him. Now, aside from the fact that every normal kid would JUMP at an offer like that, he goes deeper into the vent. Okay. Then later, we see him at the shuttles, at which point I have to say: what? I mean.. did he sit in that vent for a while, wait until Shepard had left, then decided "ok this sucks f*ck it", crawl out of the vent, take a different path than Shepard (because you don't see him on the way) and SURVIVE this as an UNARMED KID?

The kid is simply not real.

Indoctrination or not... the kid does not exist. Possibly in the first scene when hes playing on that highrise.. but even that is a stretch for me.

Why? Because no one besides shepard interacts with him.

The vent noise that leads shepard to the vent where the boy is.. but when the child suddenly disappears we don't hear the same movement sound. And the growl.. which is heard through all sound channels.. different from the reaper in the background which can only be heard through a few sound channels. (surround sound)

If you notice when the child is near the shuttles at the end - no one acknowledges or interacts with the child.. but the soldiers sure as hell don't mind helping up injured civillians into the shuttle. There is also another lone soldier standing inside the shuttle doing nothing.

Also the childs design is unique, no other person is dressed in a similar fashion(including the civilians) even the artbook acknowledges this, - paraphrasing this from memory:

We designed the boy to look like something that wouldn't be out of place today..

- Again just paraphrasing from memory so don't quote me, the important thing to note is that the boy is wearing slightly updated current clothing as they wanted to use him to connect with the player as well as with Shepard in game.

And I think it is also very siginificant, that he is the only child in the whole game series. So if they only wanted to show us the suffer of people, why not also add Asari children and other children in gemeral on the citadel.. you allways the families that fled on the citadel, but never you see any children.

Actually there is that one kid on the Citadel talking to a Turian C-Sec officer about how she is waiting for her parents. While not as young as the Starbrat kid, she is definetly not adult either...also regarding that it is one of my favorite of those small plotlines running throughout the Citadel and the Normandy.

The way the kid becomes more and more worried about her parents not showing up and the Turian keeping an eye on her and talking to her is just another of those small parts that really stuck.