57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Skillz1986]

@vahilor
is see your point, but it's not entirely true.
While not a child, there is a teen waiting for her parents on the citadel (holding area)

[Skillz1986]

Well, raistlin beat me to it.

[Gorkan86]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@gorkan

despite the fact that it has been answered more time than you can imagine, it was not yet done so by me.

So, you're arguing that the vi did not detect shepard's indoctrination. so, if you are that analytical you may have also noticed that the protheans were taken down from within, by indoctrinated prothean, sleeper agents. so you can safely assume, that the vi's did were not able to detect every kind of indoctrination. or they could only detec fully indoctrinated poeple (kai len..implants and all). Shepard was not fully indoctrinated on thessia..but already in the process. full indoctrination kicked when he was hit by harbinger

reasons:

-on the brink of death
-unconscious
-extremely.lowered willpower

Question can be answered many times but this is not done on the first page.

It's just a guess. 

Yes Protheans were destroyed from the inside by secret agents. Is this proof that all prothean VI will  mistake  to recognize barely indoctrinated person? Where is it written what degree of indoctrination to be determined and what is not?
You probably forgot that this VI know information of vital importance. If a slightly indoctrinated people can access it it meant failure. There is no sense in that VI than.

Modifié par Gorkan86, 23 avril 2012 - 11:24 .

[Skillz1986]

Yours is also just a guess. besides every single question of yours has been answered. and so far in a very plausible and cohesive way. Ad still, it seems you are not satisfied. my question is...what the hell is your point?

[liggy002]

SS2Dante wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

About the dreams.

Dreams is what they always have been. In this case, it's just nightmares, Shepard severe stress, it is not getting enough sleep too. I had dreams of far worse. And all because of nerves.

You had dreams worse than dead people whispering to you? Damn.

youtu.be/q4pqgBw_exw

Do you know what's worse than that? Hearing the whispers when you are awake.

http://www.youtube.c...czhHtqgY#t=327s

Then, up to this point everything happened in reality and there was no hallucination.
I mean, throughout the game, Shepard did not hear any voices, whispering and hallucinations, have not seen ghosts and entities gray gaze from the walls, he did not shifted memories with other team members.
And then suddenly it's all there for a second before TIM. Obviously, this effect of TIM. Its his new improved biotic powers. I noticed it for some reason.

TIM's biotic powers make Shepard hear the same whispers as in his/her dreams? Far past IT stuff that is a stretch.

Besides, even taken literally that entire scene is about the Reapers trying to indcotrinate Shepard through TIM (hence the overlay and the continous Reaper growls). Now, lets do a proof:

1.In the literal interpretation, hearing the whispers in this scene implies that the whispers are connected to the indoctrination process.

2.This implies that the dreams has something to do with indoctrination.

3. This implies IT

The only way to contradict this argument is to say that the whispers are NOT indicitive of attempted indoctrination, and the only way to argue that is to say that no indoctrination attempt is being made in the TIM scene. And if you argue that I'm sorry but you're crazy. Even the staunchest anti IT guy has to give me that.

Absolutely.  The whispers are in the dream and we hear some weird almost demonic sounding noises as the dreams get progressively worse.  In fact, they are not dreams but nightmares.  Reaper induced nightmares.

[SS2Dante]

Gorkan86 wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

@gorkan

despite the fact that it has been answered more time than you can imagine, it was not yet done so by me.

So, you're arguing that the vi did not detect shepard's indoctrination. so, if you are that analytical you may have also noticed that the protheans were taken down from within, by indoctrinated prothean, sleeper agents. so you can safely assume, that the vi's did were not able to detect every kind of indoctrination. or they could only detec fully indoctrinated poeple (kai len..implants and all). Shepard was not fully indoctrinated on thessia..but already in the process. full indoctrination kicked when he was hit by harbinger

reasons:

-on the brink of death
-unconscious
-extremely.lowered willpower

It's just a guess. 

Yes Protheans were destroyed from the inside by secret agents. Is this proof that all prothean VI will  mistake  to recognize barely indoctrinated person? Where is it written what degree of indoctrination to be determined and what is not?
You probably forgot that this VI know information of vital importance. If a slightly indoctrinated people can access it it meant failure. There is no sense in that VI than.

...I think it's rather obvious that the Protheans believed their VI's could detect indoctrination. That is why they were taken down by the agents. If they KNEW that the VI's didnn't work, then they wouldn't have used them.

NOTE - I mean the protheans believed that the VI's could detect all levels of indoctrination, when it seems they can only detect bad cases.

Modifié par SS2Dante, 23 avril 2012 - 11:26 .

[Skillz1986]

Oh i forgot.

On the other side, there's you. and your argument againts indoctrination is,
Shepard is superman.
J know that's not exactly what you said, but it sums things up pretty much.
Now while we were gathering information and in game hints to answer your questions..your only counter is your awe concerning shepard. this is pretty weak buddy. and as far as i have noticed, it's starting to p**s people off.

[Vahilor]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@vahilor
is see your point, but it's not entirely true.
While not a child, there is a teen waiting for her parents on the citadel (holding area)

Yes but a teen is not a child and doesn't at all have the unique model of a child. She has an adult model like all other civilists =). I was more talking of the kind of the age of star brat..

[Gorkan86]

liggy002 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

About the dreams.

Dreams is what they always have been. In this case, it's just nightmares, Shepard severe stress, it is not getting enough sleep too. I had dreams of far worse. And all because of nerves.

You had dreams worse than dead people whispering to you? Damn.

youtu.be/q4pqgBw_exw

Do you know what's worse than that? Hearing the whispers when you are awake.

http://www.youtube.c...czhHtqgY#t=327s

Then, up to this point everything happened in reality and there was no hallucination.
I mean, throughout the game, Shepard did not hear any voices, whispering and hallucinations, have not seen ghosts and entities gray gaze from the walls, he did not shifted memories with other team members.
And then suddenly it's all there for a second before TIM. Obviously, this effect of TIM. Its his new improved biotic powers. I noticed it for some reason.

TIM's biotic powers make Shepard hear the same whispers as in his/her dreams? Far past IT stuff that is a stretch.

Besides, even taken literally that entire scene is about the Reapers trying to indcotrinate Shepard through TIM (hence the overlay and the continous Reaper growls). Now, lets do a proof:

1.In the literal interpretation, hearing the whispers in this scene implies that the whispers are connected to the indoctrination process.

2.This implies that the dreams has something to do with indoctrination.

3. This implies IT

The only way to contradict this argument is to say that the whispers are NOT indicitive of attempted indoctrination, and the only way to argue that is to say that no indoctrination attempt is being made in the TIM scene. And if you argue that I'm sorry but you're crazy. Even the staunchest anti IT guy has to give me that.

Absolutely.  The whispers are in the dream and we hear some weird almost demonic sounding noises as the dreams get progressively worse.  In fact, they are not dreams but nightmares.  Reaper induced nightmares.

TIM is trying indoctrinate Shepard, but he could not break his will. In my case, TIM shot himself. Last agent of the reapers have failed.

[SS2Dante]

Skillz1986 wrote...

Yours is also just a guess. besides every single question of yours has been answered. and so far in a very plausible and cohesive way. Ad still, it seems you are not satisfied. my question is...what the hell is your point?

His point seems to be "SHEPARD IS TOO AWESOME FOR INDOCTRINATION!"

...not meaning disrespect but that's really what it boils down to.

I'm noticing that the people who don't believe IT generally don't understand the idea that it's for the player, not Shepard.

[SS2Dante]

Gorkan86 wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

About the dreams.

Dreams is what they always have been. In this case, it's just nightmares, Shepard severe stress, it is not getting enough sleep too. I had dreams of far worse. And all because of nerves.

You had dreams worse than dead people whispering to you? Damn.

youtu.be/q4pqgBw_exw

Do you know what's worse than that? Hearing the whispers when you are awake.

http://www.youtube.c...czhHtqgY#t=327s

Then, up to this point everything happened in reality and there was no hallucination.
I mean, throughout the game, Shepard did not hear any voices, whispering and hallucinations, have not seen ghosts and entities gray gaze from the walls, he did not shifted memories with other team members.
And then suddenly it's all there for a second before TIM. Obviously, this effect of TIM. Its his new improved biotic powers. I noticed it for some reason.

TIM's biotic powers make Shepard hear the same whispers as in his/her dreams? Far past IT stuff that is a stretch.

Besides, even taken literally that entire scene is about the Reapers trying to indcotrinate Shepard through TIM (hence the overlay and the continous Reaper growls). Now, lets do a proof:

1.In the literal interpretation, hearing the whispers in this scene implies that the whispers are connected to the indoctrination process.

2.This implies that the dreams has something to do with indoctrination.

3. This implies IT

The only way to contradict this argument is to say that the whispers are NOT indicitive of attempted indoctrination, and the only way to argue that is to say that no indoctrination attempt is being made in the TIM scene. And if you argue that I'm sorry but you're crazy. Even the staunchest anti IT guy has to give me that.

Absolutely.  The whispers are in the dream and we hear some weird almost demonic sounding noises as the dreams get progressively worse.  In fact, they are not dreams but nightmares.  Reaper induced nightmares.

TIM is trying indoctrinate Shepard, but he could not break his will. In my case, TIM shot himself. Last agent of the reapers have failed.

You didn't address my point.

Also, did you know that because your TIM shot himself you only need 4000 EMS to get the "wake up" scene in the ending, instead of the usual 5000? Doesn't make sense literally, makes perfect sense in IT.

[Skillz1986]

@ss2 dante.
I have mentioned his "supershepard" argumentation just a few posts above yours. but thanks for the heads up anyway (honestly)

[DJBare]

You know what's occurred to me, even discounting IT this game is unfinished, if you chose the destroy ending with high EMS you get a single breath from?, we only see an N7 dog tag, the armor is not exactly unique, there are absolutely no answers just a boatload of questions.

[Rifneno]

Arian Dynas wrote...

-wall of text-

*stares blankly*

...

I should go.

(But no, really, it's pretty good. I'm only up to the 3rd chapter, but it's good so far.)

Gorkan86 wrote...

If these sounds were a sign of indoctrination, they clearly would have tried to command Shepard, telling him what to do, and it is only painful memories. Voice of the people whom he could not save.

It's a good thing you're here to tell us which parts of the known lore are wrong.

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, mentioned this before, but I thought I would point it out again.

With the ending at face value, not only is the entirety of ME1 rendered nonsensical, but The Arrival is rendered pointless. There literally was no reason to have that story at all if you take the endings at face value. The only significant reasons story-wise are to give Shepard a reason to be under hack when he's on Earth, which is mostly pointless unless it't to show "Hey, Shepard had time to stew!" and to have the encounter with Harbinger/Object Rho.

Considering Arrival was being made at the same time ME3 was, they wouldn't invalidate the whole DLC and render it a Red Herring.

Also, from a writing perspective it makes a 160 turn at speeds that would rip the wings off an F-22. The 2nd game especially made a theme out of AIs' destructive potentional being mostly a self-fulfilling prophecy brought about by our own fear of the unknown. Legion and EDI both hammer this point home for us. It's extremely odd that the writers would have instantly and completely reversed course about that. Also about keeping things as realistic as possible and then giving us aa magic midget that can rewrite the fabric of reality.

Hawk227 wrote...

Yeah, I made this point a couple nights ago. Considering that the relays "didn't supernova" in literal ending, they really just threw that whole DLC out. All thats left is a couple pissed off Batarians.

They're pissed off because people keep killing the geth pyros. Batarian kinetic barriers are thermally charged, getting hit with a flamethrower turns them into superman. True story.

bigstig wrote...

Why do you think that the Cruicible is the only way to defeat the reapers, Soverign was taken down by "coventional means" okay it took the might of most the galactic fleet but they are not indestructible. For example Reapers are mostly machine, a gigantic EMP would disable them. We can generate these with current tech so it is plausible that with future tech we could generate a big enough pulse.(I thought of assumed this is what destroy did as an EMP would kill all electrical devices.

Quoteth the codex,

"During the Battle of the Citadel, Sovereign linked its consciousness to Saren's. When Saren's death corrupted the signal and shut down Sovereign's shields, Sovereign's destruction soon followed."

Also, "Sovereign was destroyed while assuming direct control over Saren. The feedback from Saren's death seemed to entirely overload Sovereign's shields. Current Reapers do not seem to suffer from this design flaw."

So Sovereign went down because Shepard destroyed his avatar, and the Reapers have apparently fixed that design flaw since. Its death isn't really applicable. That isn't to say that Reapers can't be destroyed by conventional means. The turians destroyed a number of capital ships. Several in conventional combat and some by, hilariously smuggling nuclear weapons inside them when they opened their doors for organic leaders to come in and "negotiate" (really, to get indoctrinated of course). But it's just too much. The Reapers' numbers are too great. It takes the concentrated fire of multiple dreadnoughts to bring down one capital ship. How many capital ships are there? I'd guess in the tens of thousands personally. You can see several of them at a single major city on a single planet, and they're attacking virtually every civilization simultaneously. And that's just the capital ships. Destroyers, while not nearly as powerful, are in far greater numbers than capital ships. The Reapers numbers are just far too great for conventional warfare to work.

I think it goes without saying that they didn't commit hyper-genocide for a billion plus years if a simple electromagnetic pulse was anything for them to worry about.

Arian Dynas wrote...

Addendum: Also, can I admit that I find it funny the word Naz1 is censored, where the word ass, is not?

What's even funnier: "Hitler" isn't censored.

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

So, I'm back, what exactly are you guys talking about?

Azure.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Gorkan86 wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

@gorkan

despite the fact that it has been answered more time than you can imagine, it was not yet done so by me.

So, you're arguing that the vi did not detect shepard's indoctrination. so, if you are that analytical you may have also noticed that the protheans were taken down from within, by indoctrinated prothean, sleeper agents. so you can safely assume, that the vi's did were not able to detect every kind of indoctrination. or they could only detec fully indoctrinated poeple (kai len..implants and all). Shepard was not fully indoctrinated on thessia..but already in the process. full indoctrination kicked when he was hit by harbinger

reasons:

-on the brink of death
-unconscious
-extremely.lowered willpower

Question can be answered many times but this is not done on the first page.

It's just a guess. 

Yes Protheans were destroyed from the inside by secret agents. Is this proof that all prothean VI will  mistake  to recognize barely indoctrinated person? Where is it written what degree of indoctrination to be determined and what is not?
You probably forgot that this VI know information of vital importance. If a slightly indoctrinated people can access it it meant failure. There is no sense in that VI than.

I amj gonna turn that question right around and slap you with it. If they could make VI´s cpabale of perfect Indoctrination detection then why did they not install it in every single VI? 

Jarvik and the Prothean VI itslef states that the Protheans were brought down by Indoctrinated people, there was even an entire group who were arguing for control of the Reapers (sound familiar?) who turned out to be Indoctrinated all along. An entire group within the Prothean empire and none of them were detected by the so called "flawless" Indoctrination detection of the VI´s.

[Skillz1986]

@vahilor

that's why i said it's not entirely true and that i get your point. just wanted to clarify things. but i'm basically backing you up. don't know if that makes any kind of sense...in my head it certainly does.

[SS2Dante]

DJBare wrote...

You know what's occurred to me, even discounting IT this game is unfinished, if you chose the destroy ending with high EMS you get a single breath from?, we only see an N7 dog tag, the armor is not exactly unique, there are absolutely no answers just a boatload of questions.

Initially some wondered if the N7 agent was even Shepard, but we quickly realised the most obvious clue that it was indeed Shep. The fact that it doesn't show the face.

[Gorkan86]

SS2Dante wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

@gorkan

despite the fact that it has been answered more time than you can imagine, it was not yet done so by me.

So, you're arguing that the vi did not detect shepard's indoctrination. so, if you are that analytical you may have also noticed that the protheans were taken down from within, by indoctrinated prothean, sleeper agents. so you can safely assume, that the vi's did were not able to detect every kind of indoctrination. or they could only detec fully indoctrinated poeple (kai len..implants and all). Shepard was not fully indoctrinated on thessia..but already in the process. full indoctrination kicked when he was hit by harbinger

reasons:

-on the brink of death
-unconscious
-extremely.lowered willpower

It's just a guess. 

Yes Protheans were destroyed from the inside by secret agents. Is this proof that all prothean VI will  mistake  to recognize barely indoctrinated person? Where is it written what degree of indoctrination to be determined and what is not?
You probably forgot that this VI know information of vital importance. If a slightly indoctrinated people can access it it meant failure. There is no sense in that VI than.

...I think it's rather obvious that the Protheans believed their VI's could detect indoctrination. That is why they were taken down by the agents. If they KNEW that the VI's didnn't work, then they wouldn't have used them.

NOTE - I mean the protheans believed that the VI's could detect all levels of indoctrination, when it seems they can only detect bad cases.

How do you know for sure?
Prothean checked VI in peoples indoctrinated in varying degrees. They were advanced civilization, so should consider such things.

[SS2Dante]

Gorkan86 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

@gorkan

despite the fact that it has been answered more time than you can imagine, it was not yet done so by me.

So, you're arguing that the vi did not detect shepard's indoctrination. so, if you are that analytical you may have also noticed that the protheans were taken down from within, by indoctrinated prothean, sleeper agents. so you can safely assume, that the vi's did were not able to detect every kind of indoctrination. or they could only detec fully indoctrinated poeple (kai len..implants and all). Shepard was not fully indoctrinated on thessia..but already in the process. full indoctrination kicked when he was hit by harbinger

reasons:

-on the brink of death
-unconscious
-extremely.lowered willpower

It's just a guess. 

Yes Protheans were destroyed from the inside by secret agents. Is this proof that all prothean VI will  mistake  to recognize barely indoctrinated person? Where is it written what degree of indoctrination to be determined and what is not?
You probably forgot that this VI know information of vital importance. If a slightly indoctrinated people can access it it meant failure. There is no sense in that VI than.

...I think it's rather obvious that the Protheans believed their VI's could detect indoctrination. That is why they were taken down by the agents. If they KNEW that the VI's didnn't work, then they wouldn't have used them.

NOTE - I mean the protheans believed that the VI's could detect all levels of indoctrination, when it seems they can only detect bad cases.

How do you know for sure?
Prothean checked VI in peoples indoctrinated in varying degrees. They were advanced civilization, so should consider such things.

...then how did the Protheans fall to sleeper agents, if the VI's could detect them?

[Ravel1992]

Skillz1986 wrote...


Shepard is superman.

Yes, he is.

[Skillz1986]

@ravel

oh gawd not this again. i remember that one day, this picture was posted like a billion times in a single post.spanned the whole damn page.

[Gorkan86]

DJBare wrote...

You know what's occurred to me, even discounting IT this game is unfinished, if you chose the destroy ending with high EMS you get a single breath from?, we only see an N7 dog tag, the armor is not exactly unique, there are absolutely no answers just a boatload of questions.

Its Shepard. Because if you play femshep those armor will be female type.

[Rifneno]

Gorkan86 wrote...

How do you know for sure?
Prothean checked VI in peoples indoctrinated in varying degrees. They were advanced civilization, so should consider such things.

OH JESUS, NOT THIS CRAP AGAIN! 

[Vahilor]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@vahilor

that's why i said it's not entirely true and that i get your point. just wanted to clarify things. but i'm basically backing you up. don't know if that makes any kind of sense...in my head it certainly does.

Didn't want to offend you =), only wanted to add that info ^^

[Vahilor]

Gorkan86 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

You know what's occurred to me, even discounting IT this game is unfinished, if you chose the destroy ending with high EMS you get a single breath from?, we only see an N7 dog tag, the armor is not exactly unique, there are absolutely no answers just a boatload of questions.

Its Shepard. Because if you play femshep those armor will be female type.

But DJ is still right, cause you even don't know what will happen after that scene and what really happend or will happen.

Modifié par Vahilor, 23 avril 2012 - 11:41 .