57139 réponses à ce sujet

[508317]

About the thessian VI / indoctrination detector:
During my last playthrough, I paid attention to what exactly the VI says and I had the impression that the mentioned indoctrinated presence might in fact refer to Shepard - here's why:

First the VI talks to Shepard about rather meaningless stuff, but does not mention what exactly the catalyst is until that point. So one might believe that it does not really give up any new information to Shepard. When Kai Leng shows up, the VI says it is detecting an indoctrinated presence and does not identify who exactly is meant by that.

Might sound far-fetched, but maybe the indoctrination detection took some time and coincidentally finished when Kai Leng appeared.
Or maybe the VI thought Shepard to be indoctrinated and didn't want to let the presumed reaper agent know that. Note that only after being hacked, it gives Shepard the info he/she needs.

tl;dr: The VI never explicitly stated the detected indoctrinated person to be Kai Leng.

thoughts?

Modifié par 508317, 23 avril 2012 - 12:57 .

[Gorkan86]

Skillz1986 wrote...

The only thing i have heard is that the vi can detect indoctrination perfectly. it's a guess right? Look at the protheans captain ignorant

I have not spoken about the perfect definition. I said that it determines whether or not indoctrinated. But people began to pour guesses about how perfect it determines the degree of indoctrination.

[Stegoceras]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@stegoceras

fair enough...but when they're arguing in a cohesive and plausible way,like it was done here...well

i would not say anything if it were mere speculations without further information backimg them up. but sadly...well take a look for yourself

I'm not quite sure all the facts are on the table though (lore-wise). The rest seems filled up with assumptions and speculations, doesn't mean those are wrong but it's hard to expect someone to chance his arguments when alternatives are not locked out.

[Gorkan86]

SS2Dante wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

Are you serious? Did you really just say that? After 5 pages of showing you why...let me make this unmistakeably clear. This argument sucks more than jenna jameson did in her whole carreer.

The only thing that I heard here is that VI can not perceive the mild cases of indoctrination. This is a guess,is it?

It is a liklihood based on evidence.

But where is the evidences? Only guesses. 

[Skillz1986]

But he has exactly NOTHING...nothing to back up hiss assumption. i know you are anti idt. but he is raping logic. bending it to whatever fits him in any given moment. even you have to see this. Even if shepard was not indoctrinazed at this point, it doesn't hurt the theory. the thing is just a weak a** argument, and he fails to see that

[Skillz1986]

Dude..really, you are so pathetically stubborn it hurts...really...it literally hurts responding to you. here's a suggestion. you don't like the answers presented to you? Go look for better ones somewhere else.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

508317 wrote...

About the thessian VI / indoctrination detector:
During my last playthrough, I paid attention to what exactly the VI says and I had the impression that the mentioned indoctrinated presence might in fact refer to Shepard - here's why:

First the VI talks to Shepard about rather meaningless stuff, but does not mention what exactly the catalyst is until that point. So one might believe that it does not really give up any new information to Shepard. When Kai Leng shows up, the VI says it is detecting an indoctrinated presence and does not identify who exactly is meant by that.

Might sound far-fetched, but maybe the indoctrination detection took some time and coincidentally finished when Kai Leng appeared.
Or maybe the VI thought Shepard to be indoctrinated and didn't want to let the presumed reaper agent know that. Note that only after being hacked, it gives Shepard the info he/she needs.

tl;dr: The VI never explicitly stated the detected indoctrinated person to be Kai Leng.

thoughts?

Not bad. Think about it: Why did TIM need to hack Vendetta anyway? Because he was indoctrinated, the Catalyst later confirms that.
And it actually mentions that it only answers to Shepard because of that hack. Otherwise, maybe he would have shut down like on Thessia at that point.

Actually, I believe that this is now a VERY important piece of evidence. Why put the "I was hacked so I will answer" part in if not for a reason?

Modifié par Earthborn_Shepard, 23 avril 2012 - 01:08 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Gorkan86 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

Are you serious? Did you really just say that? After 5 pages of showing you why...let me make this unmistakeably clear. This argument sucks more than jenna jameson did in her whole carreer.

The only thing that I heard here is that VI can not perceive the mild cases of indoctrination. This is a guess,is it?

It is a liklihood based on evidence.

But where is the evidences? Only guesses. 

Ehm every time we have told you that Jarvik AND VI said that the Protheans were brought down from the inside by INDOCTRINATED people.

Your arguemnt basicly amounts to the Protheans beeing the biggest morons in history.

"Hey we have this VI which can detect Indoctrination perfectly shoudl we not install it in local security measures, army security and basicly everywhere we dont want to be killed by Indoctrinated people?"

"Nah let us simply use it here and here and call it a day, it is not like we are facing extinction."

That is how stupid your entire arguemnt is and you are outright insulting us by asking for Evidence when we ahve provided this a thousand times while yours remain non existant.

Sorry about that, but I have had it with you...oh wait, here is question.

If Shepard is not Indoctrinated then explain to em this:

How does Shepard in the Destroy ending survive:

1: The pulse which is supposed to shut down Synthetic?
2: A 8 km wide fireball capable of ripping apart quantum shielded material where Shepard is near ground zero?
3: The vacuum of Space?
4: Orbital reentry along with the rest of the Citadel?
5: All of the above in a burned out armor with no helmet and no kinetic barriers?

Answer me that please (even if I have an idea of what the answer is gonna amount to)

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 23 avril 2012 - 01:12 .

[Gorkan86]

508317 wrote...

About the thessian VI / indoctrination detector:
During my last playthrough, I paid attention to what exactly the VI says and I had the impression that the mentioned indoctrinated presence might in fact refer to Shepard - here's why:

First the VI talks to Shepard about rather meaningless stuff, but does not mention what exactly the catalyst is until that point. So one might believe that it does not really give up any new information to Shepard. When Kai Leng shows up, the VI says it is detecting an indoctrinated presence and does not identify who exactly is meant by that.

Might sound far-fetched, but maybe the indoctrination detection took some time and coincidentally finished when Kai Leng appeared.
Or maybe the VI thought Shepard to be indoctrinated and didn't want to let the presumed reaper agent know that. Note that only after being hacked, it gives Shepard the info he/she needs.

tl;dr: The VI never explicitly stated the detected indoctrinated person to be Kai Leng.

thoughts?

http://www.youtube.c...GTb0K-PI#t=139s

He turned back and said it detected the presence of indoctrinated person. He detected Kai Leng.

[Stegoceras]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ehm every fu.... time we have told you that Jarvik AND the fu..... VI said that the Protheans were brought down from the inside by INDOCTRINATED people.

Your arguemnt basicly amounts to the Protheans beeing the biggest morons in fu..... history.

"Hey we have this VI which can detect Indoctrination perfectly shoudl we not install it in local security measures, army security and basicly everywhere we dont want to be killed by Indoctrinated people?"

"Nah let us simply use it here and here and call it a day, it is not like we are facing extinction."

That is how stupid your entire arguemnt is and you are outright insulting us by asking for Evidence when we ahve provided this a thousand times while yours remain non existant.

I do wonder at what time this Indoctrination detecting device was invented though, would unlikely be at the start of the invasion. It could have been invented after the damage was done, maybe as a reaction to the giant "oh **** we have just been blind-sided by a huge group of prothean indoctrination victims" even we humans only tend to react to something after the damage is done. <--- all an assumption, not fact, Neither proves nor disproves anything.

Modifié par Stegoceras, 23 avril 2012 - 01:14 .

[Skillz1986]

@bigg13
Wxactly..how did you know?
The sister of my friend's told me, her cousin had a brother, whose friend barely knew someone who really was into watching porn movies. and he said...she sucked a lot.

[Voodzik]

Gorkan86 wrote...

http://www.youtube.c...GTb0K-PI#t=139s

He turned back and said it detected the presence of indoctrinated person. He detected Kai Leng.

Eh, the turning back isn't a big deal. But if you have Javik with you he's a lot more interested in talking, too. I think this is one of the weaker pieces if evidence, but people DO need to remember that the Prothians coukdn't have had reliable indoctrination detection. Vigil's description of how they lost the war makes no sense otherwise.

 Edit, spelling

Modifié par Voodzik, 23 avril 2012 - 01:22 .

[Big G13]

508317 wrote...

About the thessian VI / indoctrination detector:
During my last playthrough, I paid attention to what exactly the VI says and I had the impression that the mentioned indoctrinated presence might in fact refer to Shepard - here's why:

First the VI talks to Shepard about rather meaningless stuff, but does not mention what exactly the catalyst is until that point. So one might believe that it does not really give up any new information to Shepard. When Kai Leng shows up, the VI says it is detecting an indoctrinated presence and does not identify who exactly is meant by that.

Might sound far-fetched, but maybe the indoctrination detection took some time and coincidentally finished when Kai Leng appeared.
Or maybe the VI thought Shepard to be indoctrinated and didn't want to let the presumed reaper agent know that. Note that only after being hacked, it gives Shepard the info he/she needs.

tl;dr: The VI never explicitly stated the detected indoctrinated person to be Kai Leng.

thoughts?

Since you just went through it you will be in a good position to correct me if I'm wrong. I was thinking that the security protocols were in place, initially, because the Reapers were present and not because indoctrination was detected. If true, then wether or not Shepard is indoc. is irrelevant. The VI wont reveal it's info because the cycle has already begun.

[Stigweird85]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Like Raistlin Majare 1992 points out an EMP would probably do way more harm than good, and if the fleets are shielded against EMPs it would be pretty unbelievable the Reapers wouldn't already have protection too, or at the very least have copied it from this cycles organic life

It is possible that they have developed some mechanisms against your standard EMP, I was merely suggusting it as an example as something that could be created based on current technology(seeing as most of Mass Effect tech has some "real" scientific explination. However considering there are powers/abilities across each game where a player can effectivly shut down a synthetic's shield, or even control them (AI hacking) it is still worth considering that some sort of weapon could be detonated to destroy the reapers

[Big G13]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@bigg13
Wxactly..how did you know?
The sister of my friend's told me, her cousin had a brother, whose friend barely knew someone who really was into watching porn movies. and he said...she sucked a lot.

LMFAO. :D

[SixG90]

 Urrrgh.. not the VI again please!! I think that if you want to discuss something you can't understand very well with people that have- let's say- "studied" that, you should at least open your mind and try to understand what is told to you, otherwise... Not that you MUST agree, but at least try be open minded and not be a naysayer all the time. *sigh, I feel old now...Wanted to say something i tought about yesterday, don't know if it's already been discussed. When you have to choose the color ending that you prefer, I've noticed some things:
   1. Control: Shep drops the gun/ suffers/becomes like a husk with TIM and Saren's eyes/ his body becomes dust and                      disappears/in the mean time STARBRAT SMILES AT YOU... harby likes you suffer?? Ah yes,  THIS                      HURTS YOU:devil:
   2. Synthesis: Sheps drops the gun/dives in to the beam (what this will change is over my head)/becomes like a husk        with TIM and Saren's eyes / his body becomes dust and disappears/  STARBRAT waches you from distance..<_<
   3. Destroy: Shep DOESN'T drop the gun, instead shoots at the humanreapertube destroy device/starbrat follows you        and watch at you, then static ripples his form and he disappears 
with a leap of logic: GUN= SHEP'S WILLPOWER, he doesn't resign to the Reaper's will ( blue and green)
and we already know that starbrat is a placeholder for harby 
I think that every one knows the rest of the endin and the priize for destroy with ESM >4000
PS: sorry if there are errors in my grammar, I'm not a native-speaker

[Rifneno]

Gorkan86 wrote...

So, the fact that VI detect no indoctrination in Shepard is suck?

Beats the hell out of your explanation, "The protheans had perfect indoctrination technology, but the scientists that figured it out decided not to share this information that could save their empire. Why? Because shut up, that's why."

[Sammuthegreat]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

508317 wrote...

About the thessian VI / indoctrination detector:
During my last playthrough, I paid attention to what exactly the VI says and I had the impression that the mentioned indoctrinated presence might in fact refer to Shepard - here's why:

First the VI talks to Shepard about rather meaningless stuff, but does not mention what exactly the catalyst is until that point. So one might believe that it does not really give up any new information to Shepard. When Kai Leng shows up, the VI says it is detecting an indoctrinated presence and does not identify who exactly is meant by that.

Might sound far-fetched, but maybe the indoctrination detection took some time and coincidentally finished when Kai Leng appeared.
Or maybe the VI thought Shepard to be indoctrinated and didn't want to let the presumed reaper agent know that. Note that only after being hacked, it gives Shepard the info he/she needs.

tl;dr: The VI never explicitly stated the detected indoctrinated person to be Kai Leng.

thoughts?

Not bad. Think about it: Why did TIM need to hack Vendetta anyway? Because he was indoctrinated, the Catalyst later confirms that.
And it actually mentions that it only answers to Shepard because of that hack. Otherwise, maybe he would have shut down like on Thessia at that point.

Actually, I believe that this is now a VERY important piece of evidence. Why put the "I was hacked so I will answer" part in if not for a reason?

We've heard this interpretation before - I don't personally like it, because it makes the whole indoctrination attempt post-Harby's beam nonsensical. Why would Harby launch a full-scale indoctrination offensive if Shepard was already fully indoctrinated?

[Macgummi]

"When you make an important decision in mass effect (anything that the game needs to know about from your saves) it adjusts the value of a "flag" in the save game file. (either 0 or 1). However, looking at the deconstructed code from the saves, only END001, the destroy ending, actually sets any flags. However, if the game was really intended to end after the end credits, why would they bother setting a save game flag when there's no more gameplay?"

Just saw that comment on youtube... Has that been discussed yet?

[szkasypcze]

Soon, this thread will create a VI on it's own by the means of it's length.

COME ON PEOPLE!!!

Do you really have some news or just speculations??

[Stigweird85]

Vahilor wrote...

bigstig wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Also, about the child. Is there any kind of logic in the beginning of the game?

So, he's in that vent. Okay. Shep comes up and wants to help him. Now, aside from the fact that every normal kid would JUMP at an offer like that, he goes deeper into the vent. Okay. Then later, we see him at the shuttles, at which point I have to say: what? I mean.. did he sit in that vent for a while, wait until Shepard had left, then decided "ok this sucks f*ck it", crawl out of the vent, take a different path than Shepard (because you don't see him on the way) and SURVIVE this as an UNARMED KID?

The kid is simply not real.

Indoctrination or not... the kid does not exist. Possibly in the first scene when hes playing on that highrise.. but even that is a stretch for me.

Why? Because no one besides shepard interacts with him.

The vent noise that leads shepard to the vent where the boy is.. but when the child suddenly disappears we don't hear the same movement sound. And the growl.. which is heard through all sound channels.. different from the reaper in the background which can only be heard through a few sound channels. (surround sound)

If you notice when the child is near the shuttles at the end - no one acknowledges or interacts with the child.. but the soldiers sure as hell don't mind helping up injured civillians into the shuttle. There is also another lone soldier standing inside the shuttle doing nothing.

Also the childs design is unique, no other person is dressed in a similar fashion(including the civilians) even the artbook acknowledges this, - paraphrasing this from memory:

We designed the boy to look like something that wouldn't be out of place today..

- Again just paraphrasing from memory so don't quote me, the important thing to note is that the boy is wearing slightly updated current clothing as they wanted to use him to connect with the player as well as with Shepard in game.

And I think it is also very siginificant, that he is the only child in the whole game series. So if they only wanted to show us the suffer of people, why not also add Asari children and other children in gemeral on the citadel.. you allways the families that fled on the citadel, but never you see any children.

--

I saw this had already been answered several times before I got to it - one of the hazards of being on here while on work
Not quite true, there is a girl talking to a turian guard on the citadel who is waiting for her parents to arrive. While she doesn't really look like a child per-se it is certainly implied that she is one

Modifié par bigstig, 23 avril 2012 - 02:16 .

[Vahilor]

szkasypcze wrote...

Soon, this thread will create a VI on it's own by the means of it's length.

COME ON PEOPLE!!!

Do you really have some news or just speculations??

No important news atm.
A troll detecting VI would be nice ^^

Modifié par Vahilor, 23 avril 2012 - 01:58 .

[Rifneno]

szkasypcze wrote...

Soon, this thread will create a VI on it's own by the means of it's length.

COME ON PEOPLE!!!

Do you really have some news or just speculations??

We got some major news at 11 PM on a Sunday but we decided to bicker about this instead.

[waldstr18]

what major news?

[Sammuthegreat]

waldstr18 wrote...

what major news?

Methinks your sarcasm detectors need rebooting.