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[SS2Dante]

Uncle Jo wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Out of topic: How went your exam ?

Well thank you for remembering

Uuuum alright. Start was easier than I thought but end was harder, so...

If I scraped 50% I'm happy

[Skillz1986]

@bigg13

8've got it, used it..didn't like it. recoils crazy. but i am a bit biased towards the mattock since me2 so it's probably not a good idea to take my word for it

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Since some of you are talking about the last dream with the clone Shepard... I get the serious creeps everytime I see Shepard's evil smile. To be honest, first time I saw it I expected to go Shepard full Saren afterwards, probably giving in to his dark site or something like that. What if that clone Shepard is kind of a symbol for Harbinger/the Reapers - and the evil smile is to indicate that now Shepard is fully indoctrinated, that it finally worked?

[SS2Dante]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Since some of you are talking about the last dream with the clone Shepard... I get the serious creeps everytime I see Shepard's evil smile. To be honest, first time I saw it I expected to go Shepard full Saren afterwards, probably giving in to his dark site or something like that. What if that clone Shepard is kind of a symbol for Harbinger/the Reapers - and the evil smile is to indicate that now Shepard is fully indoctrinated, that it finally worked?

Heeey, you can see it too? When I first watched that scene it was obvious my Shep was smirking at me but I can't see it in the vids online, but I wasn't sure if that's just cos I'm not used to maleSheps face.

[lex0r11]

SS2Dante wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Since some of you are talking about the last dream with the clone Shepard... I get the serious creeps everytime I see Shepard's evil smile. To be honest, first time I saw it I expected to go Shepard full Saren afterwards, probably giving in to his dark site or something like that. What if that clone Shepard is kind of a symbol for Harbinger/the Reapers - and the evil smile is to indicate that now Shepard is fully indoctrinated, that it finally worked?

Heeey, you can see it too? When I first watched that scene it was obvious my Shep was smirking at me but I can't see it in the vids online, but I wasn't sure if that's just cos I'm not used to maleSheps face.

Hai guys.

[Uncle Jo]

SS2Dante wrote...

Hey guys, just had a thought. You know the "other Shepard" in your last dream? (you know, the dream right after Shepard is staring at the N7 helmet and says that "they thought they heard it crack"during that last fight?) The Shepard that embraces the child?

...think that was the birth of the TIM part of Sheps mind?

EDIT - actually, this is just after Thessia, right? If so this is clearly the traumatic event that unhinges this part of Shepards psyche.

Good observation... I also noticed it and found it weird. I thought Shep is really going nuts...
I'm still  not the IT-believer, but this will make me think about it a little more...

Glad to hear the exam didn't suffer too much from the time passed on this thread ... and hope you'll succeed.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 23 avril 2012 - 03:25 .

[SS2Dante]

lex0r11 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Since some of you are talking about the last dream with the clone Shepard... I get the serious creeps everytime I see Shepard's evil smile. To be honest, first time I saw it I expected to go Shepard full Saren afterwards, probably giving in to his dark site or something like that. What if that clone Shepard is kind of a symbol for Harbinger/the Reapers - and the evil smile is to indicate that now Shepard is fully indoctrinated, that it finally worked?

Heeey, you can see it too? When I first watched that scene it was obvious my Shep was smirking at me but I can't see it in the vids online, but I wasn't sure if that's just cos I'm not used to maleSheps face.

Hai guys.

Ok, found a femshep one and it's incredibly clear that it's a smirk at you.

http://www.youtube.c...IiPN3m4Y#t=233s

Modifié par SS2Dante, 23 avril 2012 - 03:37 .

[Rosewind]

bigstig wrote...

*snip*

I can't access YT at work so can't rewatch it, however I am skeptical about it being representive of IT, I could accept the idea of it being uncomfortable small talk.

i.e. Shepard is under a lot of stress(been documented before) but he/she wants to remain strong so can't reveal what he/she is truely thinking therefore we get small talk about the helmet. You can't really discuss the weather in space . 

How about that weather very cold and .... ...solary

[SS2Dante]

Uncle Jo wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Hey guys, just had a thought. You know the "other Shepard" in your last dream? (you know, the dream right after Shepard is staring at the N7 helmet and says that "they thought they heard it crack"during that last fight?) The Shepard that embraces the child?

...think that was the birth of the TIM part of Sheps mind?

EDIT - actually, this is just after Thessia, right? If so this is clearly the traumatic event that unhinges this part of Shepards psyche.

Good observation... I also noticed it and found it weird. I thought Shep is really going nuts...
I'm still  not the IT-believer, but this will make me think about it a little more...

Glad to hear the exam didn't suffer too much from the time passed on this thread ... and hope you'll succeed.

It's always nice to hear from a non-ITer when something I notice is actually weird. You get a little paranoid

Cheers

[Gorkan86]

Uncle Jo wrote...

I think even Bioware wouldn't try to explain how Shepard could survive the two explosions (Crucible tank + Citadel) cause there is nothing to explain. It's simply impossible to get alive from this. Even for Shep. Even in a video game. IMO, this is the strongest argument for the IT.

Let's not speak about Marauder Shields and the 3 husks as last defence-line and the strangely empty Citadel... Or the Normandy leaving the battle...


The argument of the dreams can be used from both sides (nightmares getting worse because the whole Situation is getting worse or Indoctrination Effect getting stronger. Both are plausible), as well as the VI on Thessia (since it's nowhere explicitly told what kind of Stage of Indoctrination it could detect. We only know for sure that it detects fully indoctrinated people).

Agree with your words, it makes sense.



I want to apologize to you guys if I ruffled your nerves or spoiled the mood. If not then I'm just glad.
My argument may seem illogical and devoid of Sens, probably due to differences in the perception of certain actions. But honestly, I see them clear and understandable. If you do not understand do not bother, let's finish this. Or maybe it is because the English is not my native language and I'm just expressing my thoughts are wrong
Nevertheless, I will not oppress you with my stupid questions. Peace.

[SS2Dante]

Rosewind wrote...

bigstig wrote...

*snip*

I can't access YT at work so can't rewatch it, however I am skeptical about it being representive of IT, I could accept the idea of it being uncomfortable small talk.

i.e. Shepard is under a lot of stress(been documented before) but he/she wants to remain strong so can't reveal what he/she is truely thinking therefore we get small talk about the helmet. You can't really discuss the weather in space . 

How about that weather very cold and .... ...solary

*put's on Barry White...IN SPACE!*

[Big G13]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@bigg13

8've got it, used it..didn't like it. recoils crazy. but i am a bit biased towards the mattock since me2 so it's probably not a good idea to take my word for it

I've heard that from others also. I have tried alot of different ones but I always go back to the revenant (sp?) I love that gun.:happy:

[DirtyPhoenix]

Yup Shep surviving the blast(s) is the biggest piece of evidence for me too. I'd like to see how Bioware explains that away.

[Stigweird85]

pirate1802 wrote...

Yup Shep surviving the blast(s) is the biggest piece of evidence for me too. I'd like to see how Bioware explains that away.

Exactly, if the epilogue only adds a text box to explain what happened to the rest of the crew then this is one pretty big plot point. It would require a helluva lot of explination, that is IF they explain it at all. After all it could merely be the set up for Mass Effect 4 which is Shepards hunt for his LI

[Rifneno]

Uncle Jo wrote...

I think even Bioware wouldn't try to explain how Shepard could survive the two explosions (Crucible tank + Citadel) cause there is nothing to explain. It's simply impossible to get alive from this. Even for Shep. Even in a video game. IMO, this is the strongest argument for the IT.

Let's not speak about Marauder Shields and the 3 husks as last defence-line and the strangely empty Citadel... Or the Normandy leaving the battle...


The argument of the dreams can be used from both sides (nightmares getting worse because the whole Situation is getting worse or Indoctrination Effect getting stronger. Both are plausible), as well as the VI on Thessia (since it's nowhere explicitly told what kind of Stage of Indoctrination it could detect. We only know for sure that it detects fully indoctrinated people).

I know, right? It's hilarious to see people try and explain away surviving that explosion. Remember the end of Independence Day, where that alien is on the mothership watching the timer on the hydrogen bomb click over to 0:00 and obliterate the mothership? That alien had as much chance of surviving as Shepard.

Oh yeah, the nightmares. Opponents of IT always point to the fact it's a symptom of PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder). And it is. Just like fever is a symptom of ebola. What they don't point out is that every symptom of PTSD that Shepard experiences (and most of those who point to PTSD are shocked to learn that there's symptoms OTHER than nightmares) are also symptoms of indoctrination.

Shepard experiences almost every symptom of indoctrination. He experiences a couple of symptoms of PTSD. The few PTSD symptoms he experiences are symptoms common to both maladies. If this was an episode of House and someone said it was PTSD, they'd get beaten with a cane.

And some of the important symptoms of PTSD are waking flashbacks, which Shepard never experiences. And pretty much universally as I understand it, an extremely strong aversion to being in the situation or surroundings that traumatized them. That's why the asari in counciling doesn't want to be around humans and refuses to bathe. That's why Kelly Chambers won't come back to the Normandy. If Shepard has PTSD from the Reaper attack on Earth, then he would be pretty desperate to avoid Reapers. That is the exact opposite of what Shepard does.

[spotlessvoid]

This troll has endurance, I'll give him that. Makes as much sense as an Elcor trapeze artist but he is still going strong.

[DirtyPhoenix]

bigstig wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Yup Shep surviving the blast(s) is the biggest piece of evidence for me too. I'd like to see how Bioware explains that away.

Exactly, if the epilogue only adds a text box to explain what happened to the rest of the crew then this is one pretty big plot point. It would require a helluva lot of explination, that is IF they explain it at all. After all it could merely be the set up for Mass Effect 4 which is Shepards hunt for his LI

That would suck more than Jene Jameson did in her whole career; to quote someone I heard a while ago xD

[spotlessvoid]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@bigg13

8've got it, used it..didn't like it. recoils crazy. but i am a bit biased towards the mattock since me2 so it's probably not a good idea to take my word for it

I do love that Mattock.

[Ravel1992]

Anyone remember S.T.A.L.K.E.R.? At the end you also had some choices and not all of them was "happy ending". To be honest only if you chose "destroy"(sounds similar?) you had more gameplay and chance to completed your mission. I found this interesting how it is similar to (if IT correct) ME3 ending.

[Skillz1986]

@spotlessvoid
are you talking about gorkan? Not a troll in my eyes. just somebody who thought, he had something new to bring something new to the table but really did not. as everybody started to point out why his arguments did not hold any water, he was either too stubborn or too proud to admit he was wrong. so...yeah..troll.

But he appologized. Give him that.

[EpyonX3]

SS2Dante wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Out of topic: How went your exam ?

Well thank you for remembering

Uuuum alright. Start was easier than I thought but end was harder, so...

If I scraped 50% I'm happy

What are you studying?

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Did the ending remember someone else of the ending from Fahrenheit (aka Indigo Prophecy)? That game starts as a pretty solid mystery thriller, but five minutes from the ending a new AI character gets introduced and everything just turns batsh*t insane

[EpyonX3]

lex0r11 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Since some of you are talking about the last dream with the clone Shepard... I get the serious creeps everytime I see Shepard's evil smile. To be honest, first time I saw it I expected to go Shepard full Saren afterwards, probably giving in to his dark site or something like that. What if that clone Shepard is kind of a symbol for Harbinger/the Reapers - and the evil smile is to indicate that now Shepard is fully indoctrinated, that it finally worked?

Heeey, you can see it too? When I first watched that scene it was obvious my Shep was smirking at me but I can't see it in the vids online, but I wasn't sure if that's just cos I'm not used to maleSheps face.

Hai guys.

Eyes.....

[SS2Dante]

EpyonX3 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Out of topic: How went your exam ?

Well thank you for remembering

Uuuum alright. Start was easier than I thought but end was harder, so...

If I scraped 50% I'm happy

What are you studying?

Computer Science, with a mind to use it for...video games, big surprise  I actually think that my interest in thisstuff is why I view IT as so likely (from a development perspective, I mean.)

Lol, next few weeks on this forum will just be me moaning that it's distracting me from my studies

[Marlon Johnston]

Gorkan86 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ehm every time we have told you that Jarvik AND VI said that the Protheans were brought down from the inside by INDOCTRINATED people.

Your arguemnt basicly amounts to the Protheans beeing the biggest morons in history.

"Hey we have this VI which can detect Indoctrination perfectly shoudl we not install it in local security measures, army security and basicly everywhere we dont want to be killed by Indoctrinated people?"

"Nah let us simply use it here and here and call it a day, it is not like we are facing extinction."

That is how stupid your entire arguemnt is and you are outright insulting us by asking for Evidence when we ahve provided this a thousand times while yours remain non existant.

Sorry about that, but I have had it with you...oh wait, here is question.

If Shepard is not Indoctrinated then explain to em this:

How does Shepard in the Destroy ending survive:

1: The pulse which is supposed to shut down Synthetic?
2: A 8 km wide fireball capable of ripping apart quantum shielded material where Shepard is near ground zero?
3: The vacuum of Space?
4: Orbital reentry along with the rest of the Citadel?
5: All of the above in a burned out armor with no helmet and no kinetic barriers?

Answer me that please (even if I have an idea of what the answer is gonna amount to)

VI said that the proteans were destroyed from the inside = true.
VI found Kai Leng be indoctrinated  = not true sucks.
VI didnt find Shepard be indoctrinated = sucks as well.
So you can determine when the VI is telling the truth and when not? Or maybe you know better than VI?

Maybe they are biggest morons in history, so what, even the reapers make mistakes.

You know, neither Javik or VI or even I never talked about a lot of the VI that could detect the indoctrinated persons.

About five questions, i cant answer them, because i do not have information necessary to explain them.
But I bet no one on this forum will be able to answer them, except BioWare maybe.

Okay, the Protheans would not of known about indoctrination for a long time, like till they started getting betrayed by indoctrinated people and after a lot of time studying them. Also their communication was destroyed after they attacked the citidel and each planet and star system was on their own and cut off from the rest of the empire. It would of taken an even longer time to make a VI that could detect indoctrinated people and even then it wouldn't of been that sophisticated and then distributing it would of taken forever and not to mention dangerous because of the Reapers. Also Shepard wasn't fully indoctrinated on Thessia, only partially or in the process of being indoctrinated so he wouldn't of been able to be detected.

I'm just going to bring this up but who knows the effects that the beacons could have on humans mind I mean they were built for protheans and they were much more evolved than many other races. Even with the cipher an unevolved mind could suffer side effects, I mean Shepard got knocked out for like 15 hours the first time he used a beacon. This may of had positive of negative effects on his brain, maybe even increasing or decreasing his resistance to indoctrination. I mean all the information being pumped into his mind from an external source might of left his mind susceptible to Reaper influences and pulses. Or it may of strengthened his resistance with the fact of being fully aware of indoctrination increases your resistance and all, idk. Now I'm not saying we should be taking this seriously but it could open up possibilities and I'm just putting a question out there.

But there is one thing, the VI states that there have been patterns throughout cycles and that there is a bigger power at play behind the reapers.