57139 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

waldstr18 wrote...

actually, looking at some of your so called evidence, id be careful talking about bull***ting.

do you hear that hummm again?

Come on dude, you could have picked from tons of evidence, some of which is admittedly somewhat flimsy, and you choose the humming noise?

From the Indoctrination codex entry...

Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods.

>James hears a strange noise
>Indoctrination is caused in part by strange noises

>waldstr claims strange noises are irrelevant

Please try again.

Modifié par byne, 24 avril 2012 - 12:52 .

[n00bsauce2010]

waldstr18 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

could you please stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a troll? its really annoying.

To whom is this adressed?

Because, to be quite blunt, you may not be a troll, but you most certainly qualify for "annoyance". 

You come in, give little to nothing to the discussion at hand, start an argument, and scarper when you start to lose.

i certainly dont scraper. i could talk you to death ... its my special skill. but usally after 2 or 3 posts i get called a troll, so usually i stop. also i accept there is no convincing you, thats why im always asking if you are still believing or if anything has been proven, so i can finally be the troll some of you want me to be and tell you "in your face".

oh, and i meant noobsauce of course. he was the last one to use the troll to descripe a disbeliever, i think.

so, if you want to argue to the death, im up for it.

I agree with Arian on this one.

I've explained the same **** do this guy so many times.

And yes.. you troll here quite a bit. Don't lie about that..

[Arian Dynas]

Also, don't put much stock into someone who can't spell "hum" correctly.

[Auralius Carolus]

waldstr18 wrote...

case and point. i was just asking, bam... im a troll again.

Considering the amount of flack the IT croud gets, all new entries are trolls until proven untrolly.

And regardless, Arian doesn't have any manners so just ignore him. We don't even let him use the IT lab's bathrooms anymore after he was discovered to be the "Phantom Dooker", leaving people "presents" without flushing.

[EpyonX3]

Just had a thought.

In the geth consensus mission, Legion says that the video logs have masked Quarians because they match whatever is in Shepard's memory. I've read an argument that this is what the reapers are doing at the end. If this is a point for IT then I have the following question.

If everything around Shepard is coming from memory, why is TIM's face disfigured? Shepard has never seen TIM like this before the end.

What about his comment to Anderson not recognizing where he is on the Citadel? That would imply that there are a few things that are unfamiliar to him. If reapers can fabricate so many things in this dream, doesn't that suggest that they already own Shepard's mind and can make him see whatever they want?

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, don't put much stock into someone who can't spell "hum" correctly.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that since he lives in Germany, english is not his first language, and give him a pass on that one.

[waldstr18]

byne, the humming remark wasnt meant to disprove your theory, just to underline the bull***ting. of course there are some valid points to the idt, but they dont matter much if you look at the whole picture.

it was nice of you guys to come up with an elegant way out of the ending mess, but if it doesnt work, it doesnt work. and im not trying to start an argument again. there is no convincing you or me for that matter. so lets just wait until the dlc is released, then im gonna tell you "in you face", and you can call me a troll. until then, please dont.

edit: thanks byne. its hum? ok. ill try and remember that.

Modifié par waldstr18, 24 avril 2012 - 12:56 .

[byne]

waldstr18 wrote...

byne, the humming remark wasnt meant to disprove your theory, just to underline the bull***ting. of course there are some valid points to the idt, but they dont matter much if you look at the whole picture.

it was nice of you guys to come up with an elegant way out of the ending mess, but if it doesnt work, it doesnt work. and im not trying to start an argument again. there is no convincing you or me for that matter. so lets just wait until the dlc is released, then im gonna tell you "in you face", and you can call me a troll. until then, please dont.

What part exactly doesnt work?

[Arian Dynas]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

case and point. i was just asking, bam... im a troll again.

Considering the amount of flack the IT croud gets, all new entries are trolls until proven untrolly.

And regardless, Arian doesn't have any manners so just ignore him. We don't even let him use the IT lab's bathrooms anymore after he was discovered to be the "Phantom Dooker", leaving people "presents" without flushing.

Libelous scandalous rogue! *draws foil*

Besides, I don't have any manners, mister "I drink straight from the carton of milk in the breakroom"? Douche.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Just had a thought.

In the geth consensus mission, Legion says that the video logs have masked Quarians because they match whatever is in Shepard's memory. I've read an argument that this is what the reapers are doing at the end. If this is a point for IT then I have the following question.

If everything around Shepard is coming from memory, why is TIM's face disfigured? Shepard has never seen TIM like this before the end.

What about his comment to Anderson not recognizing where he is on the Citadel? That would imply that there are a few things that are unfamiliar to him. If reapers can fabricate so many things in this dream, doesn't that suggest that they already own Shepard's mind and can make him see whatever they want?

Since TIM represents indoctrination, he would look different than the "untainted" parts of your psyche (Anderson).

I beleive they pretty much are making him see whatever they want with the starchild, they just build up his trust in what he sees with familiar settings.

Even the dead bodies are memories- Ashley and Kaiden Armor, with Jenkins face. 

Modifié par balance5050, 24 avril 2012 - 01:00 .

[Arian Dynas]

TIM looks like a Husk, Anderson is immaculate, it's symbolic. Never underestimate the power of the subconscious to conflate images.

[n00bsauce2010]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Just had a thought.

In the geth consensus mission, Legion says that the video logs have masked Quarians because they match whatever is in Shepard's memory. I've read an argument that this is what the reapers are doing at the end. If this is a point for IT then I have the following question.

If everything around Shepard is coming from memory, why is TIM's face disfigured? Shepard has never seen TIM like this before the end.

What about his comment to Anderson not recognizing where he is on the Citadel? That would imply that there are a few things that are unfamiliar to him. If reapers can fabricate so many things in this dream, doesn't that suggest that they already own Shepard's mind and can make him see whatever they want?

Not a good counter argument. Shepard states that nothing in the reaper consensus looks "familiar." Other than the Quarians themselves of course....(and the gun)
Therefore if it uses his own memory to craft it.. it doesn't have to be recognizable to him. The entire area is a bunch of wierd data bits.

Also.. all husks look like TIM.. it could easily be taken from that. He's seen a similar effect on Saren... so I'm sure the reapers could easily project this effect onto Shepards perception of TIM.

[Auralius Carolus]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Just had a thought.

In the geth consensus mission, Legion says that the video logs have masked Quarians because they match whatever is in Shepard's memory. I've read an argument that this is what the reapers are doing at the end. If this is a point for IT then I have the following question.

If everything around Shepard is coming from memory, why is TIM's face disfigured? Shepard has never seen TIM like this before the end.

What about his comment to Anderson not recognizing where he is on the Citadel? That would imply that there are a few things that are unfamiliar to him. If reapers can fabricate so many things in this dream, doesn't that suggest that they already own Shepard's mind and can make him see whatever they want?

If the IT is real, then Anderson represents a certain side of Shepard. Anderson saying "this looks unfamliar" would be a vocalization of an impression deep down in Shepard.

As far as mental "ownership", not necessarily. Indoctrination is perceptual manipulation, not direct control. What Shepard truly desires can still come through, but the indoctrination can spin it to appear negative and visa versa.

Although some of what Shepard sees will appear bizarre or even foreign, (just as normal dreams can do), they still largely originate from within his experience.

[balance5050]

waldstr18 wrote...

byne, the humming remark wasnt meant to disprove your theory, just to underline the bull***ting. of course there are some valid points to the idt, but they dont matter much if you look at the whole picture.

it was nice of you guys to come up with an elegant way out of the ending mess, but if it doesnt work, it doesnt work. and im not trying to start an argument again. there is no convincing you or me for that matter. so lets just wait until the dlc is released, then im gonna tell you "in you face", and you can call me a troll. until then, please dont.

edit: thanks byne. its hum? ok. ill try and remember that.

LOL! Your logic is awesome. "Ima troll you in the summer, but don't call me a troll"

I.T. won't be disproven, they will either leave it ambiguous or confirm it, but it's here to stay.

Modifié par balance5050, 24 avril 2012 - 01:07 .

[Arian Dynas]

That and it was specifically stated that since Shepard had only ever seen Quarians in their suits, he ended up using the only convenient image he had available. That and there's also the out of game explanation that they didn't have the resources to show suitless Quarians.

In other words, Shepard has seen Husks, he has seen TIM. Therefore...

[EpyonX3]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Just had a thought.

In the geth consensus mission, Legion says that the video logs have masked Quarians because they match whatever is in Shepard's memory. I've read an argument that this is what the reapers are doing at the end. If this is a point for IT then I have the following question.

If everything around Shepard is coming from memory, why is TIM's face disfigured? Shepard has never seen TIM like this before the end.

What about his comment to Anderson not recognizing where he is on the Citadel? That would imply that there are a few things that are unfamiliar to him. If reapers can fabricate so many things in this dream, doesn't that suggest that they already own Shepard's mind and can make him see whatever they want?

Not a good counter argument. Shepard states that nothing in the reaper consensus looks "familiar." Other than the Quarians themselves of course....(and the gun)
Therefore if it uses his own memory to craft it.. it doesn't have to be recognizable to him. The entire area is a bunch of wierd data bits.

Also.. all husks look like TIM.. it could easily be taken from that. He's seen a similar effect on Saren... so I'm sure the reapers could easily project this effect onto Shepards perception of TIM.

Not exactly. Shepard's surroundings is a filter that the geth are using to resemble familiar objects, platfomrs and basic shapes and sounds. The images of video recordings are, however, reconstructed using shepard's memory. There are two different definitions for what Shepard is seeing.

Husks don't look anything like TIM. They're bald, grey skinned animals with tubes running in their mouths.

[Auralius Carolus]

waldstr18 wrote...

 there is no convincing you or me for that matter.

*alarms start going off in the IT lab*

An introllinated presence has been detected. All personnel to your stations! Hide the food!

*shoots the milk jug Arian is drinking with a .22*

On guard Arian!

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...

That and it was specifically stated that since Shepard had only ever seen Quarians in their suits, he ended up using the only convenient image he had available. That and there's also the out of game explanation that they didn't have the resources to show suitless Quarians.

In other words, Shepard has seen Husks, he has seen TIM. Therefore...

But wait! Shepard has never actually seen the Illusive Man in person! So shouldnt he have imagined him as a hologram projection? <_<

[waldstr18]

balance5050 wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

byne, the humming remark wasnt meant to disprove your theory, just to underline the bull***ting. of course there are some valid points to the idt, but they dont matter much if you look at the whole picture.

it was nice of you guys to come up with an elegant way out of the ending mess, but if it doesnt work, it doesnt work. and im not trying to start an argument again. there is no convincing you or me for that matter. so lets just wait until the dlc is released, then im gonna tell you "in you face", and you can call me a troll. until then, please dont.

edit: thanks byne. its hum? ok. ill try and remember that.

LOL! Your logic is awesome. "Ima troll you in the summer, but don't call me a troll"

I.T. will won't be disproven, they will either leave it ambiguous or confirm it, but it's here to stay.

i meant, you can call me a troll once i have done something that deserves to be called trolling. i have read the wiki pages, no trolling on my side yet.

im sure its going to be disproven in the summer, but i guess we will see.

@byne - wrote you a private message, otherwise the troll chasers will hunt me again ... with fire!

[Arian Dynas]

waldstr18 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

byne, the humming remark wasnt meant to disprove your theory, just to underline the bull***ting. of course there are some valid points to the idt, but they dont matter much if you look at the whole picture.

it was nice of you guys to come up with an elegant way out of the ending mess, but if it doesnt work, it doesnt work. and im not trying to start an argument again. there is no convincing you or me for that matter. so lets just wait until the dlc is released, then im gonna tell you "in you face", and you can call me a troll. until then, please dont.

edit: thanks byne. its hum? ok. ill try and remember that.

LOL! Your logic is awesome. "Ima troll you in the summer, but don't call me a troll"

I.T. will won't be disproven, they will either leave it ambiguous or confirm it, but it's here to stay.

i meant, you can call me a troll once i have done something that deserves to be called trolling. i have read the wiki pages, no trolling on my side yet.

im sure its going to be disproven in the summer, but i guess we will see.

@byne - wrote you a private message, otherwise the troll chasers will hunt me again ... with fire!

*jaw hits floor*

*begins beating head againsT the wall*

WHAT.

HAVE.

YOU.

NOT.

DONE.

THAT.

COULD.

BE.

CONSIDERED.

TROLLING?

[Uncle Jo]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Just had a thought.

In the geth consensus mission, Legion says that the video logs have masked Quarians because they match whatever is in Shepard's memory. I've read an argument that this is what the reapers are doing at the end. If this is a point for IT then I have the following question.

If everything around Shepard is coming from memory, why is TIM's face disfigured? Shepard has never seen TIM like this before the end.

What about his comment to Anderson not recognizing where he is on the Citadel? That would imply that there are a few things that are unfamiliar to him. If reapers can fabricate so many things in this dream, doesn't that suggest that they already own Shepard's mind and can make him see whatever they want?

It's a only his own representation of an indoctrinated TIM. The whole part of the IT about the citadel sequence is rock solid.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 24 avril 2012 - 01:15 .

[waldstr18]

i dont write in caps or use one line for one word. just an example.

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Just had a thought.

In the geth consensus mission, Legion says that the video logs have masked Quarians because they match whatever is in Shepard's memory. I've read an argument that this is what the reapers are doing at the end. If this is a point for IT then I have the following question.

If everything around Shepard is coming from memory, why is TIM's face disfigured? Shepard has never seen TIM like this before the end.

What about his comment to Anderson not recognizing where he is on the Citadel? That would imply that there are a few things that are unfamiliar to him. If reapers can fabricate so many things in this dream, doesn't that suggest that they already own Shepard's mind and can make him see whatever they want?

Since TIM represents indoctrination, he would look different than the "untainted" parts of your psyche (Anderson).

I beleive they pretty much are making him see whatever they want with the starchild, they just build up his trust in what he sees with familiar settings.

Even the dead bodies are memories- Ashley and Kaiden Armor, with Jenkins face. 

But why make him look different? In the consensus mission, Shepard's memories are accesed without him even feeling it. Shepard didn't even know 100% that he was indoctrinated. Yes it was hinted but no confirmed. So why tip him off by making him look indoctrinated if they want him to join their side? Making him look normal would have helped them and made less work.

As for the bodies I see the similarities in the armor but I don't see the faces. Besides, those patterns are there before the beam hits and in ME2.

[Arian Dynas]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

 there is no convincing you or me for that matter.

*alarms start going off in the IT lab*

An introllinated presence has been detected. All personnel to your stations! Hide the food!

*shoots the milk jug Arian is drinking with a .22*

On guard Arian!

*smacks the back of Auralius' head with the grip of his N7 Eagle*

Take a load off. I'll take it from here.

[lex0r11]

*response to everything on the last few pages*

Modifié par lex0r11, 24 avril 2012 - 01:16 .