57139 réponses à ce sujet

[GODofWAR93]

I can't believe Bioware would do this, I hope that it was all just a hallucination, the Mass Effect series are filled with great characters and some you have grown very fond of... to have everything thrown away like this as if it meant nothing is terrible. Mass Effect is more than just a video game!

Modifié par GODofWAR93, 10 mars 2012 - 07:52 .

[Evindell]

I got more satisfaction from the ending of Saints Row: The Third, than I got from Mass Effect 3. That's just...unacceptable. Mass Effect 3 was so awesome, so good, in so many ways, and then it fell apart.

[humes spork]

FugitiveMind wrote...

Oh the comedy... IGN just reposted their "17 different endings" guide about an hour ago...

God, that guide is just about the stupidest thing I've read in a long time. A changed victory condition is not the same thing as a different ending.

Case in point, the developers' room ending in Chrono Trigger doesn't count as "two different endings" because there are two different conditions for getting it.

[k8ee]

I couldn't even drink away the sense of loss I felt after playing, and I tried.

Believing the end is a hallucination is the only way I am staying sane, and even then I'm just barely holding things together.

I morn Shepard, I morn the galaxy, but most of all I morn all the stories that could have been.

It's tragic really.

[lil_89]

This is the only reasonable explanation. I refuse to listen to reason, if reason tells me this actually happened , and will believe that Shep died with Anderson, and the rest was just a dream.
God (i mean catalyst kid) I hope they give us an explanation or a alternative ending dlc.

[Actinguy1]

I've said this before, but I'm GLAD Shepard is dead. I think that's great. In my mind, a playthrough in which your entire squad survived ME2 is cheating. It's a SUICIDE mission. I lost 40% of my squad, and I felt like a hero for getting 60% of my squad out of there alive. Being guarenteed that everyone survives in ME3 would mean there were never any real stakes. I let Garrus beat me in that sniper contest because I felt there was a decent chance he would die, and a guaranteed chance that I would. I don't want us to be able to have a rematch next week. So when Shepard, Garrus, and Ashley (LI) ran toward the beam, and suddenly Shepard was the last man standing, I thought YES. That is serious emotional trauma. I am ready to die. Let's do this thing.

Then it was all BS, and there was Ashley safe on the Normandy. What the?

Give me a tragic ending...some people live. Some die. But SHOW me that. Give me some freaking closure.

[k8ee]

Actinguy1 wrote...

I've said this before, but I'm GLAD Shepard is dead. I think that's great. In my mind, a playthrough in which your entire squad survived ME2 is cheating. It's a SUICIDE mission. I lost 40% of my squad, and I felt like a hero for getting 60% of my squad out of there alive. Being guarenteed that everyone survives in ME3 would mean there were never any real stakes. I let Garrus beat me in that sniper contest because I felt there was a decent chance he would die, and a guaranteed chance that I would. I don't want us to be able to have a rematch next week. So when Shepard, Garrus, and Ashley (LI) ran toward the beam, and suddenly Shepard was the last man standing, I thought YES. That is serious emotional trauma. I am ready to die. Let's do this thing.

Then it was all BS, and there was Ashley safe on the Normandy. What the?

Give me a tragic ending...some people live. Some die. But SHOW me that. Give me some freaking closure.

I totally support this actually, but you see, that's your ideal play through. And your choices should allow Shep to die a tragic hero, but for others of us, all our hard work was to save the galaxy and Shep... and mass effect was always supposed to be about being your personalized story, and it just wasn't. I think that's what is getting to everyone.

I don't want to force a happy ending on anyone... but not having the option to do so is disheartening. Not to mention the lack of closure.

[Evindell]

Actinguy1 wrote...

I've said this before, but I'm GLAD Shepard is dead. I think that's great. In my mind, a playthrough in which your entire squad survived ME2 is cheating. It's a SUICIDE mission. I lost 40% of my squad, and I felt like a hero for getting 60% of my squad out of there alive. Being guarenteed that everyone survives in ME3 would mean there were never any real stakes. I let Garrus beat me in that sniper contest because I felt there was a decent chance he would die, and a guaranteed chance that I would. I don't want us to be able to have a rematch next week. So when Shepard, Garrus, and Ashley (LI) ran toward the beam, and suddenly Shepard was the last man standing, I thought YES. That is serious emotional trauma. I am ready to die. Let's do this thing.

Then it was all BS, and there was Ashley safe on the Normandy. What the?

Give me a tragic ending...some people live. Some die. But SHOW me that. Give me some freaking closure.

I have no problem with Shepard dying (or members of the squad dying). I have a problem with dying because of a plot that was concocted in the last five minutes, that had zero build up, and was not a product of my decisions or level of preparation.

EDIT: You had squad mates die in Mass Effect 2 because either you weren't prepared enough, they weren't loyal, or you didn't assign them to the right tasks. Those were choices you made. They didn't die simply because Bioware said "No matter what you do Garrus is a goner!"

Modifié par Evindell, 10 mars 2012 - 08:16 .

[aequitaz]

byne wrote...

Maybe Bioware will release a DLC where it turns out the horrible endings were all just a hallucination that you experienced after you got knocked unconscious by Harbinger while heading towards the portal thingy, and then you can go on to have endings that actually make sense.

I had some similar ideas ... but I'm not sure, one on hand this would be one of the most awesome "trolls" ever and I think I would love to see what happens around here if it's really true but on the other hand it would also feel like a complete rip off. I mean we all paid for a full game and if they actually planned to release the real endings later as paytoplay DLC ... Well just feels very wrong imo.

[Lparsons7641]

I think I'm going to use this as my "canon" ending............if only in my mind.

I'd accept Shepard getting out of a pile of rubble. I'd accept Garrus and Liara having been killed by harbinger.

But space god kid? Joke, EDI, and..............................................Javik? Coming out of the Normandy? No.

What happened to the fleet? All those ships I mustered from everywhere? Did they make it? What about my ground forces? Wrex, Grunt, Jack? Again if they died, I'd accept that. But what we got...........

[mupp3tz]

While playing SP just now, I decided to read the codexes for fun.. aaand:

INDOCTRINATION

Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods.  The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears.  As time pases, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences.  Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.

Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents.  A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe.  Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chasos can bring down nations. 

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unstable.  Higher mental functioning mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal.  Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks.  Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.

Thoughts?

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 10 mars 2012 - 08:16 .

[k8ee]

This would totally explain everything... the choices are just way for harbinger to confuse Shep and stop her from destroying the reapers.

[Revan67]

I feel like bioware wasn't sure how to end 3. First off there was a lot of plot holes that weren't addressed and a lot of things that didn't seem to fit (Geth becoming hostile even though Legion wasn't, Rachni somehow being indoctrinated and then freed).

What I wanted to see was the epic battle of all epicness geth + council races + rachni vs reapers. Wanted to see a giant battle that would overpower the reapers.. What I got was a 2 minute cinematic and then some kind of ending reminiscent of the Wachowski Brothers in relation to the end of the Matrix 2 or 3.

Modifié par Revan67, 10 mars 2012 - 08:20 .

[monkspider]

This thread is brilliant and makes perfect sense. One of the things that really sticks out for me is that after Harbinger's beam, someone on the radio says that everyone is wiped out. Wouldn't they notice Shepard and Anderson still going? Maybe they intended a surprise ending DLC or maybe they actually intended for Shepard to die at the end just before he could achieve victory. The ending sequence is a hallucination Shepard experiences right before death.

In any event, this thread really makes perfect sense and gives me a reason to play through my other characters. Thank you.

Modifié par monkspider, 10 mars 2012 - 08:20 .

[FugitiveMind]

I can completely accept that reasoning Mupp3tz...

That just begs the question; "Where's the rest of the game I paid for?"

Not just in money, but in time and energy because I'm right there with k8ee in the attempted beer and just feel a loss right now..

[MPSai]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

While playing SP just now, I decided to read the codexes for fun.. aaand:

INDOCTRINATION

Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods.  The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears.  As time pases, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences.  Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.

Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents.  A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe.  Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chasos can bring down nations. 

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unstable.  Higher mental functioning mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal.  Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks.  Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.

Thoughts?

So Shepard could have slowly been indoctrinated the whole game (ghostly images in the dreams), and the Synthesis and Control endings could very well have had Shepard indoctrinating the entire galaxy? 

[lookingglassmind]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

While playing SP just now, I decided to read the codexes for fun.. aaand:

INDOCTRINATION

Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods.  The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears.  As time pases, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences.  Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.

Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents.  A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe.  Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chasos can bring down nations. 

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unstable.  Higher mental functioning mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal.  Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks.  Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.

Thoughts?

I think that this codex gives good validity to the theory that indoctrination may be being attempted upon Shepard by the Child/Harbinger. However, I am not certain about the last part. If we assume that Shepard was not in the beginning phases of indoctrination from earlier games, "rapid indoctrination" may not work in the ending scene. "Rapid" does not seem to mean the short amount of time that Shepard spends inside the Citadel/with the Catalyst. If we accept that Shepard was not already succumbing to indoctrination, then I doubt s/he would be able to be indoctrinated that quickly.

I think that the physical symptomatology that we elicit from Shepard (the slow movements, the monotone speech, the blind acceptance of reality) is more related to his/her injuries than indoctrination. However -- the physical environment symptomatology that we hear and see (the ghostly voices, etc), seems to smack of the Catalyst/Harbinger trying like hell to indoctrinate.

[Zehtuka]

If this is true it would be the most legendary post-launch twist to a game in history.

Modifié par Zehtuka, 10 mars 2012 - 08:26 .

[lookingglassmind]

monkspider wrote...

This thread is brilliant and makes perfect sense. One of the things that really sticks out for me is that after Harbinger's beam, someone on the radio says that everyone is wiped out. Wouldn't they notice Shepard and Anderson still going? Maybe they intended a surprise ending DLC or maybe they actually intended for Shepard to die at the end just before he could achieve victory. The ending sequence is a hallucination Shepard experiences right before death.

In any event, this thread really makes perfect sense and gives me a reason to play through my other characters. Thank you.

And this. A million times this. For me, this is the MOST solid evidence that there is that the ending is not lodged in reality at all. Whether it be metaphysical, or just a biological-based hallucination as Shepard approaches death -- it doesn't matter. This is the most concrete veracity that we have from that scene that indicates all is not as it seems.

[mupp3tz]

FugitiveMind wrote...

I can completely accept that reasoning Mupp3tz...

That just begs the question; "Where's the rest of the game I paid for?"

Not just in money, but in time and energy because I'm right there with k8ee in the attempted beer and just feel a loss right now..

I feel for ya, bud!  I guess the only thing we can really do is keep voicing how we feel to Bioware and wait until other markets have gotten time to finish a playthrough or two.  Even if Bioware actually meant for this (current end game) to be the true ending, this thread -- and everyone contributing to it -- has given me enough reasoning to accept the "ending" a little easier. 

It don't hurt no' mo... haha.  Or, at least, not as much.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 10 mars 2012 - 08:28 .

[k8ee]

@MPSai exactly.

I have yet to be able to enjoy my beer *wink at fugitivemind*

I just wanted to mention also that:
This literal ending, that everyone hates means that no one will play the DLC. I mean, if the game has no replay value, then why bother spending any money on DLC? Makes no sense. BUT if there are fulfilling endings, then people will want to play MORE, and buy MORE DLC to improve their ending.

It's just good business for EA/BW to fix this.

Modifié par k8ee, 10 mars 2012 - 08:28 .

[crimsontotem]

notice that mouthy Harbinger doesn't say a word to shepard.... kids referring himself as "we" "us", trying to convince Shepard that he is part "synthetic"

Also when reaper try to control you, he can see through mind and memories... this is also seen in the derelict reaper where crew members are suffering with the shared memories....

To Harbinger... injured/knocked out Shepard is easy prey to go through his memories and mind.
And what does he find? a little brat that has been bothering him for this entire time... to communicate better, Harbinger takes this kid's form to convince Shepard to bend his will... destroying reapers.

Starchild=Harbinger. I am sticking with that until the official says something.

Modifié par crimsontotem, 10 mars 2012 - 08:30 .

[tommythetomcat]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

While playing SP just now, I decided to read the codexes for fun.. aaand:

INDOCTRINATION

Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods.  The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears.  As time pases, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences.  Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.

Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents.  A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe.  Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chasos can bring down nations. 

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unstable.  Higher mental functioning mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal.  Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks.  Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.

Thoughts?

This is what leads me to believe that the renegade ending is you overcoming the indoctrination and waking up after the Harby blast to the face.  I mean its the only way I could justify the ending, even though I was a full blown paragon I said ****** off to that child and blasted the console.

[mupp3tz]

Now I'm starting to wonder if Shepard had been getting slowly indoctrinated throughout the game... with all the running into Reaper ships and artifacts and what not.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 10 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[ScooterPie88]

At first I was WTF is this pile of crap when I saw the ending (not that I'm not still thinking that) but the more I think about it the more the dream explanation makes sense. If for no other reason than economics the included endings are not the final chapter. Bioware has repeatedly stated that this would be the end of Shepard's trilogy but they have never even hinted that this would be the last Mass Effect game. You don't spend millions of dollars creating an IP from scratch then dumping it in the trash after 5 years (5 successful years at that). Not only dumping it in the trash but pissing off 95%+ of your community. Still I really don't like the idea of buying games that don't have the ending.