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[Raistlin Majare 1992]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian,

I'd wondered about the Citadel situation myself. I couldn't figure why the Reapers didn't mass on it after arriving in Batarian space. Even with the Citadel fleet they'd walk through it like they do everything. From there they can eliminate most galactic leadership and proceed as they normally do when starting a cycle.

Another thing, The Destiny Ascension is the flagship for the Citadel fleet, if the Reapers sacked the Citadel it obviously made it out of the battle as you see it in the final fleet battle for Earth but nothing is mentioned over a battle for the Citadel aside from quick quotes from Anderson and Hackett.

And another thing, you retain your Citadel defense force war asset for the battle, wouldn't that mean C-sec and the defense force are still fighting even though it's been captured?

Well i had this theory that the Citadel might still be under C-Sec control, that they managed to close it before the Reapers got inside and the beam on Earth is really so that the Reapers can sned troops onto the Citadel to take it back.

But there is a short cutscene where you see the outermost part of the Citadel closing as it orbits over Earth <_<

Would have made sense since now that the Keeper signal is overridden and without someone like Saren onboard it should be little trouble to close the Citadel when the Reapers arrived. I am pretty sure the Citadel defense force could hold out at least that long...

[Big G13]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Realized a few interesting things.

One: Saren is mentioned more in this game than ME2 and all the DLC combined. ME1 is the only place his name is mentioned more often, and for obvious reasons.

Two: it occurred to me, if the Reapers could take the Citadel from its location in the Widow nebula any time they wanted, as shown with the ending, then why didn't they take it earlier?

And why take it at all. It is already strategically placed far from any planet by Reaper design. Why not move part of their force to the Citadel and shut down or control the relay. It would take a very long time to move the crucible there by conventional means. And Reapers have all the time in the world. Instead they move it right to the heart of the fight. Pride? Over confidence?  You got me.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

"Listen to yourself, you're indoctrinated!"

"Of course not, they own you now."

"It's like they want you to forget."

"Only your actions will be remembered."

"I need you to believe."

"Victory, at any cost."

"Finish your war. We will be waiting."

"You can't save me."

"It is not a thing you can comprehend."

"Someone else might have gotten it wrong."

"They already killed you once and all that did was ****** you off."

[Arian Dynas]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian,

I'd wondered about the Citadel situation myself. I couldn't figure why the Reapers didn't mass on it after arriving in Batarian space. Even with the Citadel fleet they'd walk through it like they do everything. From there they can eliminate most galactic leadership and proceed as they normally do when starting a cycle.

Another thing, The Destiny Ascension is the flagship for the Citadel fleet, if the Reapers sacked the Citadel it obviously made it out of the battle as you see it in the final fleet battle for Earth but nothing is mentioned over a battle for the Citadel aside from quick quotes from Anderson and Hackett.

And another thing, you retain your Citadel defense force war asset for the battle, wouldn't that mean C-sec and the defense force are still fighting even though it's been captured?

Well i had this theory that the Citadel might still be under C-Sec control, that they managed to close it before the Reapers got inside and the beam on Earth is really so that the Reapers can sned troops onto the Citadel to take it back.

But there is a short cutscene where you see the outermost part of the Citadel closing as it orbits over Earth <_<

Would have made sense since now that the Keeper signal is overridden and without someone like Saren onboard it should be little trouble to close the Citadel when the Reapers arrived. I am pretty sure the Citadel defense force could hold out at least that long...

Considered that too, still doesn't explain why they didn't hit it earlier.

[HellishFiend]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian,

I'd wondered about the Citadel situation myself. I couldn't figure why the Reapers didn't mass on it after arriving in Batarian space. Even with the Citadel fleet they'd walk through it like they do everything. From there they can eliminate most galactic leadership and proceed as they normally do when starting a cycle.

Another thing, The Destiny Ascension is the flagship for the Citadel fleet, if the Reapers sacked the Citadel it obviously made it out of the battle as you see it in the final fleet battle for Earth but nothing is mentioned over a battle for the Citadel aside from quick quotes from Anderson and Hackett.

And another thing, you retain your Citadel defense force war asset for the battle, wouldn't that mean C-sec and the defense force are still fighting even though it's been captured?

Well i had this theory that the Citadel might still be under C-Sec control, that they managed to close it before the Reapers got inside and the beam on Earth is really so that the Reapers can sned troops onto the Citadel to take it back.

But there is a short cutscene where you see the outermost part of the Citadel closing as it orbits over Earth <_<

Would have made sense since now that the Keeper signal is overridden and without someone like Saren onboard it should be little trouble to close the Citadel when the Reapers arrived. I am pretty sure the Citadel defense force could hold out at least that long...

In any case, in the context of the IT, we dont know what is going on inside the Citadel, since we havent been there yet. 

[waldstr18]

spotlessvoid wrote...

In regards to waldstr18:
Whether intentional or not, if your comments convey disdain for indoctrination theory, with no constructive arguements being made, you will be called a troll. If you have made mocking or inflammatory statements in the past, with no attempts at reconciliation, and continue to make remarks with contemptuous undertones, real or imagined, do not be surprised if you are not afforded the benefit of the doubt.
Open discussion in the search for better understanding is wholly expected and encouraged.


Additionally, claiming you will troll this thread hard if IDT is proven false is a blatant admission of your ultimate motives. Just because your every post isn't a troll doesn't mean your'e not. There are plenty of threads on the BSN that are not IDT related, yet here you still are.

Ask yourself this one question: What is your impact on this thread? I honestly can't remember ever seeing you respond to anything IDT related without shifting back the burden of proof. You think IDT is wrong and we are naive for believing in it. We get it.

i did make constructive arguements.
like the possibility of only the red ending.
idt too well hidden for the common gamer.
pretentiousness to say bioware gave us half a game.

even though i cant poof anything, you cant either. you found clues, whcih you explain the way you want, and i could just explain it the way i want. no proof there.

for what im still doing here. im waiting to sing you my own personal trololololo. thats why im checking in from time to time asking how things are; if anything has actually been proven; and if you are still holding the indoctrination line.

also i wont make the forum mistake again. it has been an interesting experience, but i dont think the forum life is for me. you get called a troll way too fast. and im not talking exclusively about me, cause there were others coming in, asking something or trying to convince you, and some of you called them troll for it. thats way too hostile for my gentle soul.

[Skillz1986]

@arian

i once mentioned, that everybody seem hellbent on getting you to the citadel/crucible. but everyone does so for different reasons

the alliance/hackett sees the crucible as a last hope against the reapers.

I don't know TIM's motives, but i find it very strange that after invading crono station and triggering a station wide alarm. crashing a fighter right through the station. giving him more than enough time to evacuate by fighting his small army.
he does not know any better, than leaving this damn vi just sitting there on his computer?

Consider, he already hacked the security protocols, which must have been pretty tight, since that thing is holding some really important intel.
What's stopping him from rewriting that thing, to tell you exactly what TIM wants you to belive, in order to lure you into a trap. how does the vi know where TIM went exactly?

TIM: "if shepard turns up, tell him i'm off to the citadel to get some fresh eggs and juice. oh, and tell him to pick up kai leng from karate class."
VI: security protocols were overidden, i will comply

[HellishFiend]

waldstr18 wrote...

idt too well hidden for the common gamer.
pretentiousness to say bioware gave us half a game.

This is very true, and is actually part of the IT if you think about it. According to the IT, Bioware planned this from the start, and in my eyes, part of that plan is to actually cater to both audiences by giving brand new or casual players (and there are quite a few of them) a simple, poetic, "artistic" ending that theyll be fine with, and buy themselves several more months to put together a grand, fitting ending that will satisfy the hardcore fans, and that the casual fans wont even have to worry about if they dont want to. 

I've been playing a lot of multiplayer, and most, if not all of the people I've spoken with have either not cared about the ending or thought it was fine. Then I mention the IT and theyre like wow, really? that sounds kinda cool. Then we go back to killing brutes and banshees.

The point is that if IT is true and has been Bioware's plan all along, that the logic behind it (from their perspective, agree or disagree) it really serves to cater to both audiences, casual and hardcore. Everyone wins in some way. Casuals get their easy-to-chew ending, hardcore get the ending they want/deserve with a really deep and impactful delivery, and Bioware/EA get several more months of PAID development time to work on the real ending. Theyre rolling in money from game sales and reinforcement packs from MP, all while theyre still working on actually completing the game. Brilliant in an evil, corporate sort of way....

[Vahilor]

@Waldstr18

Funny thing is, I have never been called a troll and I'm on various forums and chats.. and I even get along vey well with people having other opinions like mine... it's allways the way somone behaves.

And sorry to say it.. in nearly every post you put in a provocation..and that pisses people off and makes them calling you a troll.

Modifié par Vahilor, 24 avril 2012 - 09:20 .

[HellishFiend]

Skillz1986 wrote...

I don't know TIM's motives, but i find it very strange that after invading crono station and triggering a station wide alarm. crashing a fighter right through the station. giving him more than enough time to evacuate by fighting his small army.
he does not know any better, than leaving this damn vi just sitting there on his computer?

Consider, he already hacked the security protocols, which must have been pretty tight, since that thing is holding some really important intel.
What's stopping him from rewriting that thing, to tell you exactly what TIM wants you to belive, in order to lure you into a trap. how does the vi know where TIM went exactly?

Yep, conspiracy possibilities abound regarding the VI conversation on the station. It's possible that the information he fed to Shepard was hacked into him by TIM, and it's also possible (though a bit more of a stretch) that its a Reaper projection feeding him the information they want him to have. Unlike IT itself though, conspiracy theories regarding the VI convo on the station dont really have any in-game evidence to back them up. Still a possibility though, in my eyes. 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian,

I'd wondered about the Citadel situation myself. I couldn't figure why the Reapers didn't mass on it after arriving in Batarian space. Even with the Citadel fleet they'd walk through it like they do everything. From there they can eliminate most galactic leadership and proceed as they normally do when starting a cycle.

Another thing, The Destiny Ascension is the flagship for the Citadel fleet, if the Reapers sacked the Citadel it obviously made it out of the battle as you see it in the final fleet battle for Earth but nothing is mentioned over a battle for the Citadel aside from quick quotes from Anderson and Hackett.

And another thing, you retain your Citadel defense force war asset for the battle, wouldn't that mean C-sec and the defense force are still fighting even though it's been captured?

Well i had this theory that the Citadel might still be under C-Sec control, that they managed to close it before the Reapers got inside and the beam on Earth is really so that the Reapers can sned troops onto the Citadel to take it back.

But there is a short cutscene where you see the outermost part of the Citadel closing as it orbits over Earth <_<

Would have made sense since now that the Keeper signal is overridden and without someone like Saren onboard it should be little trouble to close the Citadel when the Reapers arrived. I am pretty sure the Citadel defense force could hold out at least that long...

Considered that too, still doesn't explain why they didn't hit it earlier.

Maybe it just wouldnt be efficient for them? Hitting the Citadel while those aboard could simply close it and keep them out would mean they had to waste time and ressources dragging the closed Citadel to Earth and set up the Transport beam and even after that who knows how long it would be before the Citadel was in their control?

And maybe they did make a move on the Citadel in the form of Cerberus coup? if TIM was Indoctrinated it would not be much a of stretch to think that the Reapers might have subtly nudged him to attack the Citadel and if he gained control it would not be hard to set up so the Reapers could fly right in.

By the time the crucible is finished however the Reapers dont have a choice (if the Crucible works like it should) and capture the Citadel, moving it to Earth.

However as I said this is irrelevant due to the short cutscene of the Citadel closing over Earth clearly implying that the Reapers have control.

[Skillz1986]

@hellishfiend
i support it, and i think the hacked vi just plays right into the hands of it. i do not see it as wo different theories. the vi gets shepard right where the reapers want him to be. to physically and mentally weaken him so they can start their finals attempts at indoctrination.

[waldstr18]

Vahilor wrote...

@Waldstr18

Funny thing is, I have never been called a troll and I'm on various forums and chats.. and I even get along vey well with people having other opinions like mine... it's allways the way somone behaves.

And sorry to say it.. in nearly every post you put in a provocation..and that pisses people off and makes them calling you a troll.

i guess thats just the way i am then. but as previously mentioned i accept that, thats why i will keep away from forums in the future.

still i think you guys are way to easily provoked. dont you have something better to do than being pissed about every hidden provocation in some random guys post? wouldnt not responding to provocation being the mature thing to do? or is your life so boring that you need to get into troll hunting?

[HellishFiend]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@hellishfiend
i support it, and i think the hacked vi just plays right into the hands of it. i do not see it as wo different theories. the vi gets shepard right where the reapers want him to be. to physically and mentally weaken him so they can start their finals attempts at indoctrination.

Quite true. The information obtained from the VI does lead him straight to where the Reapers want him. It makes sense, but it would be nice if we had something tangible to back it up like we do for the rest of the parts of the IT. 

[Big G13]

MAKE IT STOP!

[Skillz1986]

@waldstr.18

Despite the fact, none of the previous posts were in any way offensive to way (actively or passively) you just insulted people indirectly, by implying or assuming our lives were boring. while i know it was a question, you have to be familiar with the concept of being passively aggressive. while i dot mind you being here at all (really..i could not care less) i do take issue with some of the things you say. had someone asked me whether my life was too boring in an actual face to face conversation...i would have probaby SMACKED THE HOLY GHOST OIT OF HIM...just kidding.

But i hope you know where i'm going with this. this really was some kind of rude. and it has nothing to do with bein easily offended.

[waldstr18]

HellishFiend wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

idt too well hidden for the common gamer.
pretentiousness to say bioware gave us half a game.

This is very true, and is actually part of the IT if you think about it. According to the IT, Bioware planned this from the start, and in my eyes, part of that plan is to actually cater to both audiences by giving brand new or casual players (and there are quite a few of them) a simple, poetic, "artistic" ending that theyll be fine with, and buy themselves several more months to put together a grand, fitting ending that will satisfy the hardcore fans, and that the casual fans wont even have to worry about if they dont want to. 

I've been playing a lot of multiplayer, and most, if not all of the people I've spoken with have either not cared about the ending or thought it was fine. Then I mention the IT and theyre like wow, really? that sounds kinda cool. Then we go back to killing brutes and banshees.

The point is that if IT is true and has been Bioware's plan all along, that the logic behind it (from their perspective, agree or disagree) it really serves to cater to both audiences, casual and hardcore. Everyone wins in some way. Casuals get their easy-to-chew ending, hardcore get the ending they want/deserve with a really deep and impactful delivery, and Bioware/EA get several more months of PAID development time to work on the real ending. Theyre rolling in money from game sales and reinforcement packs from MP, all while theyre still working on actually completing the game. Brilliant in an evil, corporate sort of way....

i dont think bioware likes being called evil just as much as i dont like to be called a troll. cause what you are saying is that they are abusing their customer base. i feel like i need to defend bioware here, even though its neither my obligation nor my place to do so, but i dont think bioware is evil. i think you are wrong for pretending to know things about someone elses work.

i guess their might be provocation in there. sorry. i just feel like you are betraying bioware by calling their product unfinished. if i was bioware, and if bioware wasnt a company, which is supposed to make money, id tell you: well, why dont you make your own games then, if you are that disrespectful to my game, which i clearly made trying to listen to your requests. well, im not bioware, and bioware is a company, so i guess they have to deal with the fans. im sure glad that i dont.

[Ravereth]

waldstr18 wrote...

i did make constructive arguements.
like the possibility of only the red ending.
idt too well hidden for the common gamer.
pretentiousness to say bioware gave us half a game.

So maybe YOU can answer my previous question about this situation when only red ending is available... "how is this scene with child and his grandpa(?) possible, if someone had low EMS and every organic and synthetic life got deystoyed and of course if IT is false?"

[waldstr18]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@waldstr.18

Despite the fact, none of the previous posts were in any way offensive to way (actively or passively) you just insulted people indirectly, by implying or assuming our lives were boring. while i know it was a question, you have to be familiar with the concept of being passively aggressive. while i dot mind you being here at all (really..i could not care less) i do take issue with some of the things you say. had someone asked me whether my life was too boring in an actual face to face conversation...i would have probaby SMACKED THE HOLY GHOST OIT OF HIM...just kidding.

But i hope you know where i'm going with this. this really was some kind of rude. and it has nothing to do with bein easily offended.

but didnt you say your own self "it was a question"? i might have stepped over the line there, but dont you think i make a valid point asking that?

[Earthborn_Shepard]

I'm back Any news over the night?

[HellishFiend]

waldstr18 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

idt too well hidden for the common gamer.
pretentiousness to say bioware gave us half a game.

This is very true, and is actually part of the IT if you think about it. According to the IT, Bioware planned this from the start, and in my eyes, part of that plan is to actually cater to both audiences by giving brand new or casual players (and there are quite a few of them) a simple, poetic, "artistic" ending that theyll be fine with, and buy themselves several more months to put together a grand, fitting ending that will satisfy the hardcore fans, and that the casual fans wont even have to worry about if they dont want to. 

I've been playing a lot of multiplayer, and most, if not all of the people I've spoken with have either not cared about the ending or thought it was fine. Then I mention the IT and theyre like wow, really? that sounds kinda cool. Then we go back to killing brutes and banshees.

The point is that if IT is true and has been Bioware's plan all along, that the logic behind it (from their perspective, agree or disagree) it really serves to cater to both audiences, casual and hardcore. Everyone wins in some way. Casuals get their easy-to-chew ending, hardcore get the ending they want/deserve with a really deep and impactful delivery, and Bioware/EA get several more months of PAID development time to work on the real ending. Theyre rolling in money from game sales and reinforcement packs from MP, all while theyre still working on actually completing the game. Brilliant in an evil, corporate sort of way....

i dont think bioware likes being called evil just as much as i dont like to be called a troll. cause what you are saying is that they are abusing their customer base. i feel like i need to defend bioware here, even though its neither my obligation nor my place to do so, but i dont think bioware is evil. i think you are wrong for pretending to know things about someone elses work.

i guess their might be provocation in there. sorry. i just feel like you are betraying bioware by calling their product unfinished. if i was bioware, and if bioware wasnt a company, which is supposed to make money, id tell you: well, why dont you make your own games then, if you are that disrespectful to my game, which i clearly made trying to listen to your requests. well, im not bioware, and bioware is a company, so i guess they have to deal with the fans. im sure glad that i dont.

Nice, you picked the one word out of my entire post that you could find a problem with (even though it was meant in a playful way) and wrote two paragraphs attacking it.... What about the rest of it?

[spotlessvoid]

waldstr18 wrote...

i did make constructive arguements.
like the possibility of only the red ending.
idt too well hidden for the common gamer.
pretentiousness to say bioware gave us half a game.

Your first arguement has been addressed repeatedly, so much so that I'm not going to take the time to explain. You have been on this thread plenty enough to have seen that argument neutralized.
The other two are not in game related and therefore entirely subjective. Regardless, they have been addressed:

The IDT ending wasn't intended for casual fans and players interested primarily in the combat gameplay.

Not half, 95%. And the rest is coming.

Not much of a contribution, and given your condescending approach to IDT, you have no credibility here.

waldstr18 wrote...

even though i cant poof anything, you cant either. you found clues, whcih you explain the way you want, and i could just explain it the way i want. no proof there.

Great, this is the IDT thread.

waldstr18 wrote...

for what im still doing here. im waiting to sing you my own personal trololololo. thats why im checking in from time to time asking how things are; if anything has actually been proven; and if you are still holding the indoctrination line.

Exactly. You admit you're a troll. What else is there to say?

waldstr18 wrote...
also i wont make the forum mistake again. it has been an interesting experience, but i dont think the forum life is for me. you get called a troll way too fast. and im not talking exclusively about me, cause there were others coming in, asking something or trying to convince you, and some of you called them troll for it. thats way too hostile for my gentle soul.

You clearly just don't get it. We don't care about your intentions, your presence has long become nothing but an annoying distraction, and that is the essence of trolling.
Nothing left to say to you.

[waldstr18]

Ravereth wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

i did make constructive arguements.
like the possibility of only the red ending.
idt too well hidden for the common gamer.
pretentiousness to say bioware gave us half a game.

So maybe YOU can answer my previous question about this situation when only red ending is available... "how is this scene with child and his grandpa(?) possible, if someone had low EMS and every organic and synthetic life got deystoyed and of course if IT is false?"

admitting the only destroy ending is my weakes arguement, i dont see the problem there. is really all organic life destroyed with low ems? i never heard that. i know about earth being destroyed, but not all organic life. synthetic - yes, organic - i dont think so.

could someone with more background knowledge confirm that, please.

[Skillz1986]

@waldstr.18
And i would tell you,that it is your job to make games which appease me (the masses in that context).
It's one of the oldest rules in literature. the reviewer does not have to be better than the artist. the argument "well, do it better then" is irrelevant. Let's assume you invite me to dinner. and i say that your cooking skill sucks. whether you tell me i could not do it better myself, does not change the fact, it still sucks.

[Ravereth]

Big G13 wrote...

MAKE IT STOP!

It all seemed harmless...