57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Wattoes]

Even if its a hallucination its a MASSIVE disaster.

First of all, probably well over 50% of people who buy the game would never even hear about it being some dream.

Second of all, my experience with the game was still negative.  I walked away pissed off and not wanting to touch the series again.  A "haha, it was a big joke!" isnt funny or cool or smart.  Its a kick in the teeth. 

There is no immediate feedback to the theory while playing the game.  This means bioware has in large failed at the effect they were looking for.  If they wanted to pitch the mind control thing, there should have been something after all the retarded ending stuff we saw.  Then it would have been creative or awesome.  As it sits now the ending sucks either way.

They dont get points for "attempting" to do something cool.  If the effect didn't come across properly, then its still a failure.

Modifié par Wattoes, 12 mars 2012 - 01:15 .

[Lugaidster]

JasonTan87 wrote...

I feel obliged to post what I did 5 hours ago on this very thread:

JasonTan87 wrote...

Keep in mind; with such an ending without a closure, it is very easy to see what we each want to see. It's very easy to read into the narrative and find things that are not there. Hope, combined with emotional desperation, makes a most persuasive force. (This reminds me of TIM's own failing)

I myself am wary of giving the writers too much credit; especially in instances where there is the possibility of me deluding myself into making a masterpiece out of someone's sloppy work. Traditionally, Mass Effect followed fairly conventional soap-opera conventions. Unlike the Matrix, which sought to question reality from the onset, we do not have this meta-narrative coming from the last two games. Making the last 20 minutes of Mass Effect 3 into a post-modern meta narrative that is an 'indoctrination' of the player; while entirely plausable, is unlikely.

The thing is, we can't tell if this is deliberate just yet. I'm most willing to buy into this theory, but I can't help but ask myself:

If this was really true, why hold the 'real ending' back? Why not just release it with the rest of the game, and be credited for the stroke of genious? Why risk the fan backlash? Why look sloppy when you can look good right off?

Why troll us, their fans?

You know, they could have just told us in a press release, with a sly smile, that it's not over yet. Then they wouldn't have any of this PR firestorm on their hands.

Even if it was true, the current state that ME3 was released in (supposedly a complete game out of the box) is also paramount to bad writing. The narrative, as it is now, it violates the reader-writer contract by not offering the real ending to provide closure to the story. Even if there was an overarching meta-narrative embedded within, the writing must be consistant and clear enough for us to reach that conclusion without having a 'panel' to 'interpret' the ending for us. Mass Effect 3 has neither.

The very fact that the 'panel' has to 'interpret' their vision to us shows how the narrative has failed to communicate the different levels of the narrative.

In addition; the whole crucible thing itself could have been handled more adequately. Hallucination is not an excuse for sloppy writing. The writing for the crucible onwards; while brillant if this theory holds true; still feels sloppy and rushed. Imagine how much more convincing if they had a fluent narrative without the gigantic plot holes, and the Normandy had a proper reason for running away with your crew all on it. It also end with Normandy getting knocked out of FTL, but not show the crew coming out of the Normandy on some random planet.

The fact that the ending feels rushed worries me; because such meta-narrative twists require a high level of finesse to pull off.

What worries me the most is that people are losing their objectivity, calling what what may very well be a rushed conclusion 'a stroke of genius'. We must never forget that Bioware is telling us a story, and the very fact that we are unable to see the structure of the meta-narrative clearly (if it even exists) shows an inability to communicate their artistic vision properly through the medium.

To what end? I don't think anyone here believe this isn't more than wishful thinking. Repeating that we're deluding ourselves because we had a crappy ending is about as worthy as deluding ourselves. At least with the latter we have hope.

[Ona Demonie]

The ending indeed seemed rushed from the graphics alone. The graphics were blocky and not as refined as the graphics in the other parts of the game. The light itself was four transparent textures with a glow shader added in. Same goes for the platform. If you walk TOWARDS Earth, you'll enter a "Hall of Mirrors" where the polygons reflect forever. Surely someone had to see this during testing.

Plus, yes, it looks like Shepard does have a hole in her leg. The scene where Shepard wakes up had a metal wire quite close to Shep's leg.

[Lugaidster]

Wattoes wrote...

Even if its a hallucination its a MASSIVE disaster.

First of all, probably well over 50% of people who buy the game would never even hear about it being some dream.

Second of all, my experience with the game was still negative.  I walked away pissed off and not wanting to touch the series again.  A "haha, it was a big joke!" isnt funny.  There is no immediate feedback to the theory while playing the game.  This means bioware has in large failed at the effect they were looking for.

They dont get points for "attempting" to do something cool.  If the effect didn't come across properly, then its still a failure.

As if the current ending isn't. If it is a hallucination or attempt to indoctrinate Shepard then they can still save face. We're grasping at straws, but it's better than just b1tching.

[David Bergsma]

Without hope, we are no better than machines

[Kosiji]

David Bergsma wrote...

Well, unless Shep can hallucinate photos (which may be a possiblity) the kid was at least real at some point.

Pretty slim though, it can be anybody. That even seems a girl to me

This. There is a similar picture on the Normandy in Diana's room & when I got close up on it....it seemed to be a female.

Modifié par Kosiji, 12 mars 2012 - 02:05 .

[Rifneno]

Lugaidster wrote...

I think you're mixing concepts here. The whole galaxy is mapped and the reapers are the solution to the Milkyway. The Milkyway is one galaxy not the universe or an agrupation of galaxies.

Cheers

No, I'm not.

Codex (Secondary) -> Citadel and Galactic Government -> Citadel Space

"At first glance, it appears this territory encompasses most of the galaxy. In reality, however, less than 1% of stars have been explored."

My point is that while the Reapers are the solution for the Milky Way, if the problem was real it would only be a matter of time before destruction came from one of the other 200,000,000,000 galaxies.  Crossing between galaxies may indeed be impossible for organic life, and it may be impossible with the amount of tech that the Reapers have.  There's no reason to think it's impossible for every synthetic life.

[littleork]

JasonTan87 wrote...

I feel obliged to post what I did 5 hours ago on this very thread:

JasonTan87 wrote...

Keep in mind; with such an ending without a closure, it is very easy to see what we each want to see. It's very easy to read into the narrative and find things that are not there. Hope, combined with emotional desperation, makes a most persuasive force. (This reminds me of TIM's own failing)

I myself am wary of giving the writers too much credit; especially in instances where there is the possibility of me deluding myself into making a masterpiece out of someone's sloppy work. Traditionally, Mass Effect followed fairly conventional soap-opera conventions. Unlike the Matrix, which sought to question reality from the onset, we do not have this meta-narrative coming from the last two games. Making the last 20 minutes of Mass Effect 3 into a post-modern meta narrative that is an 'indoctrination' of the player; while entirely plausable, is unlikely.

The thing is, we can't tell if this is deliberate just yet. I'm most willing to buy into this theory, but I can't help but ask myself:

If this was really true, why hold the 'real ending' back? Why not just release it with the rest of the game, and be credited for the stroke of genious? Why risk the fan backlash? Why look sloppy when you can look good right off?

Why troll us, their fans?

You know, they could have just told us in a press release, with a sly smile, that it's not over yet. Then they wouldn't have any of this PR firestorm on their hands.

Even if it was true, the current state that ME3 was released in (supposedly a complete game out of the box) is also paramount to bad writing. The narrative, as it is now, it violates the reader-writer contract by not offering the real ending to provide closure to the story. Even if there was an overarching meta-narrative embedded within, the writing must be consistant and clear enough for us to reach that conclusion without having a 'panel' to 'interpret' the ending for us. Mass Effect 3 has neither.

The very fact that the 'panel' has to 'interpret' their vision to us shows how the narrative has failed to communicate the different levels of the narrative.

In addition; the whole crucible thing itself could have been handled more adequately. Hallucination is not an excuse for sloppy writing. The writing for the crucible onwards; while brillant if this theory holds true; still feels sloppy and rushed. Imagine how much more convincing if they had a fluent narrative without the gigantic plot holes, and the Normandy had a proper reason for running away with your crew all on it. It also end with Normandy getting knocked out of FTL, but not show the crew coming out of the Normandy on some random planet.

The fact that the ending feels rushed worries me; because such meta-narrative twists require a high level of finesse to pull off.

What worries me the most is that people are losing their objectivity, calling what what may very well be a rushed conclusion 'a stroke of genius'. We must never forget that Bioware is telling us a story, and the very fact that we are unable to see the structure of the meta-narrative clearly (if it even exists) shows an inability to communicate their artistic vision properly through the medium.

Could the ending we have now the real one? Of course. Im a really negative person, to be honest, i think they will come next week and say that they arent changing anything. Do I still think that hallucination theory could happen? Yes.  Im not even expecting them to change them, but if they do, I think it will be for this theory, thats all. If they just add an epilogue to those we already have I will be happy.

[Omilophile]

Ona Demonie wrote...
No. The current theory is that the old man and the kid found one of Liara's time capsules and learned about "The Shepard" and space flight. 

Does anyone know how far into the future that's supposed to be? Also, am I the only one that thinks it could be the planet the Normandy crashed on (it has the same number of moons, not that that necessarily means anything)?

Fun fact: the voice actor for the old man is none other than Buzz Aldrin the astronaut.

[Wattoes]

Lugaidster wrote...
As if the current ending isn't. If it is a hallucination or attempt to indoctrinate Shepard then they can still save face. We're grasping at straws, but it's better than just b1tching.

A valid point.  Especially since theorizing is more fun than actually playing the bloody series at this point.

I guess I just wanted to bring a realistic approach here.  It may be better, but I think at this point its going to go down as one of the worst endings in videogame history, regardless of result.

[Lugaidster]

Rifneno wrote...

Dilandau3000 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Actually that brings up another point.  In all of these "Reapers were doing it to stop organics from destroying themselves or reality itself" explanations, it's never explained that the Reapers are only the "solution" to the Milky Way.  The estimates for the number of galaxies in the observable universe are over a hundred billion.  Whether dark energy or omnisynthetics, the Reaper solution would be like trying to clean the Atlantic ocean by filtering one bucket of water.  The problem WOULD still happen from one of the other countless galaxies.

That would've been a problem with the proposed "dark matter" ending, because that would've been a universe-spanning problem. At least with the organics/synthetics things you can say that the reapers don't care about other galaxies because they can't reach them or do anything about them anyway.

Not true.  Crossing galaxies is a tall order... for us.  They're talking about synthetic life far more advanced than anything we've seen.  Including the Reapers since the solution to incredibly advanced AI can't be incredibly advanced AI itself.  Synthetic life, unlike us, has an unlimited lifespan and is infinitely more durable.  The Milky Way has been artificially stifling its technological advacement via the Reapers for hundreds of millions if not billions of years.  Such an advanced AI would be able to cross galaxies.  Definitely.  Even if they just flew at FTL, it would only be a matter of time because they're not limited to a lifespan of a century or so as we are.  And then that omniAI would annihilate the Reapers as easily as the Reapers do to their victims.  Then all organic life in the Milky Way would be next.

What makes you believe that Reapers have an infinite power supply? Even if they can cross intergalactic space however long that may be, how do you explain the energy source? Dark space is usually regarded as such because there's barely any light there. Without stars or planets it's really hard to mine for other resources as well...

[DangerSandler]

David Bergsma wrote...

Without hope, we are no better than machines

[JasonTan87]

Bigdoser wrote...

Omilophile wrote...

byne wrote...

Exactly, like I said earlier, the reason Shepard only pulls out of the hallucination if you choose Destroy is because thats the only one where you keep your resolve. The others you kind of give up.

Holy S***. You may be on to something. In both of the other outcomes, Shepard drops his gun! Are we grasping at straws? Yes. Will I keep hoping for  DLC anyway? You bet.

If the indoctrination theory is correct I see the gun that shepard is holding is shepard's resolve/willpower. As I keep saying crucible means severe test or trial.

It is Heckett that gives the crucible it's name. In this case, the trial does not necessary refer to shepards personal one (although it might be so), but instead to the building of the crucible itself as a trial.

[littleork]

Wattoes wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...
As if the current ending isn't. If it is a hallucination or attempt to indoctrinate Shepard then they can still save face. We're grasping at straws, but it's better than just b1tching.

A valid point.  Especially since theorizing is more fun than actually playing the bloody series at this point.

I guess I just wanted to bring a realistic approach here.  It may be better, but I think at this point its going to go down as one of the worst endings in videogame history, regardless of result.

I would rather theorize than complain like half of the forums,What i would hate and find funny at the same time is if bioware would change the ending for something even crappier so we go theorize again. I would hate them for torturing us that way xD

[Rifneno]

Lugaidster wrote...

What makes you believe that Reapers have an infinite power supply? Even if they can cross intergalactic space however long that may be, how do you explain the energy source? Dark space is usually regarded as such because there's barely any light there. Without stars or planets it's really hard to mine for other resources as well...

Where did you get the idea I was saying the Reapers could do that?

[Ona Demonie]

Omilophile wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...
No. The current theory is that the old man and the kid found one of Liara's time capsules and learned about "The Shepard" and space flight. 

Does anyone know how far into the future that's supposed to be? Also, am I the only one that thinks it could be the planet the Normandy crashed on (it has the same number of moons, not that that necessarily means anything)?

Fun fact: the voice actor for the old man is none other than Buzz Aldrin the astronaut.

Could be Shepard's present but in another star system or few years. Maybe 50+. Remember, the Reapers didn't eliminate every species. Since space flight isn't available for the Grandpa and kid, it's possible the Reapers left them alone while they learned about Shepard. It's probably present or a few years in the future since if they found the time capsule, they still haven't achieved space flight. Or they're close to it.

The planet could be the same as the Normandy crash, but if they really are inbred descendants, shouldn't they have known all the details? Also, it doesn't make sense for them to be inbred if the crew mates that come out the Normandy are Joker, your LI, and someone else. Or Joker, EDI, and your LI. I had Joker, Kaidan, and Javik, so they couldn't have populated.

[Omilophile]

Bigdoser wrote...

If the indoctrination theory is correct I see the gun that shepard is holding is shepard's resolve/willpower. As I keep saying crucible means severe test or trial.

Ah, good catch. I really hope we're right about this, but I'm fairly certain we're just lying to ourselves to numb the pain. As someone else already said, it's better than complaining, though.

[Corephyfish]

Kosiji wrote...

David Bergsma wrote...

Well, unless Shep can hallucinate photos (which may be a possiblity) the kid was at least real at some point.

Pretty slim though, it can be anybody. That even seems a girl to me

This. There is a similar picture on the Normandy in Diana's room & when I got close up on it....it looked seemed to be a female.

I already posted the closeup, there is no doubt it is the boy in my
mind, he has the same expression as in the dreams when he is on fire.

[Lugaidster]

Rifneno wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

What makes you believe that Reapers have an infinite power supply? Even if they can cross intergalactic space however long that may be, how do you explain the energy source? Dark space is usually regarded as such because there's barely any light there. Without stars or planets it's really hard to mine for other resources as well...

Where did you get the idea I was saying the Reapers could do that?

Ok, scratch reaper and replace with even more advanced synthetic life.

[lil_89]

Omilophile wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...
No. The current theory is that the old man and the kid found one of Liara's time capsules and learned about "The Shepard" and space flight.

Does anyone know how far into the future that's supposed to be? Also, am I the only one that thinks it could be the planet the Normandy crashed on (it has the same number of moons, not that that necessarily means anything)?

Fun fact: the voice actor for the old man is none other than Buzz Aldrin the astronaut.

I though so too. Choose destroy ending and saw three humans step out of the ship, then that epilogue came and I was like; sooo, Ahs, Joker and Vega restarted the population huh. ewwwwwww *shrug*

[Lugaidster]

lil_89 wrote...

Omilophile wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...
No. The current theory is that the old man and the kid found one of Liara's time capsules and learned about "The Shepard" and space flight.

Does anyone know how far into the future that's supposed to be? Also, am I the only one that thinks it could be the planet the Normandy crashed on (it has the same number of moons, not that that necessarily means anything)?

Fun fact: the voice actor for the old man is none other than Buzz Aldrin the astronaut.

I though so too. Choose destroy ending and saw three humans step out of the ship, then that epilogue came and I was like; sooo, Ahs, Joker and Vega restarted the population huh. ewwwwwww *shrug*

If repopulating the planet depended on you screwing your sister would you do it?

[Sheparded]

Lugaidster wrote...

lil_89 wrote...

Omilophile wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...
No. The current theory is that the old man and the kid found one of Liara's time capsules and learned about "The Shepard" and space flight.

Does anyone know how far into the future that's supposed to be? Also, am I the only one that thinks it could be the planet the Normandy crashed on (it has the same number of moons, not that that necessarily means anything)?

Fun fact: the voice actor for the old man is none other than Buzz Aldrin the astronaut.

Would you?

I though so too. Choose destroy ending and saw three humans step out of the ship, then that epilogue came and I was like; sooo, Ahs, Joker and Vega restarted the population huh. ewwwwwww *shrug*

If repopulating the planet depended on you screwing your sister would you do it?

[ratzerman]

I'd rather be trolled than betrayed. Hope this theory is true...

[Soilworker77]

One thing I am wondering about after you get hit by the red laser beam, is what happend to Shepards armor?

You run down towards the Citadel beam thing, then boom you get hit and all of a sudden the armor is gone? Doesn't make sense to me, and yet if the armor got vaporized or some such, wouldn't Shepard have severe burns in that case?

[Lugaidster]

Soilworker77 wrote...

One thing I am wondering about after you get hit by the red laser beam, is what happend to Shepards armor?

You run down towards the Citadel beam thing, then boom you get hit and all of a sudden the armor is gone? Doesn't make sense to me, and yet if the armor got vaporized or some such, wouldn't Shepard have severe burns in that case?

I'd say it's an artistic compromise. You can't be that gruesom to actually show Shepard burned. That would even hurt more. Besides, it would be painful and unnecessary to actually model each armor broken.