57139 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

IT doesn't necessarily think that it was planned by Bioware, it can just be a headcanon theory.

I have to disagree on that point. If it's headcanon theory then why are ANY of us still here? Why look for new evidence? Why call it evidence? Headcanon is something you can come up with on your own. It doesnt require a forum, pictures, or youtube videos. To me, the whole point of IT centers around the concept of it being Bioware's original intent. The "headcanon" perception issue is probably what cause most uninformed people to dismiss IT altogether. 

[Earthborn_Shepard]

HellishFiend wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

IT doesn't necessarily think that it was planned by Bioware, it can just be a headcanon theory.

I have to disagree on that point. If it's headcanon theory then why are ANY of us still here? Why look for new evidence? Why call it evidence? Headcanon is something you can come up with on your own. It doesnt require a forum, pictures, or youtube videos. To me, the whole point of IT centers around the concept of it being Bioware's original intent. The "headcanon" perception issue is probably what cause most uninformed people to dismiss IT altogether. 

Well that's your opinion. But still, collecting evidence can be fun. And it can make the ending better for you, even if it was never intended.

[HellishFiend]

waldstr18 wrote...

@hellishfiend

but isnt that the same thing. you pretend to know biowares intentions. well you dont, so you cant just say that. some of you actually dont do that, i know, they treat the theory like what it is ... a theory. but most of you treat it like its fact, which implies you believe to know what bioware is thinking.

You're putting words in my mouth, and generalizing, both in the same post. 

[Vahilor]

waldstr18 wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

i did make constructive arguements.
like the possibility of only the red ending.
idt too well hidden for the common gamer.
pretentiousness to say bioware gave us half a game.

So maybe YOU can answer my previous question about this situation when only red ending is available... "how is this scene with child and his grandpa(?) possible, if someone had low EMS and every organic and synthetic life got deystoyed and of course if IT is false?"

admitting the only destroy ending is my weakes arguement, i dont see the problem there. is really all organic life destroyed with low ems? i never heard that. i know about earth being destroyed, but not all organic life. synthetic - yes, organic - i dont think so.

could someone with more background knowledge confirm that, please.

Hmm that's actually how do I interpret the fact that No one gets off the Normandy...

id interpret that as your crew not surviing, not all organic life.

But old man and the little Brat are on the planet your crew crashes on.. .. no one getting out of the Normandy.. no one on the planet.. no one able to tell Sheps story..on that planet.

how do you know that? they are in a google picture, for all i know. you are certain of so many things, well, certainty is the mother of fools, ive been told. appearances are deceiving. thats all the movie quotes i can come up with at the moment.

Aha and BW only shows no one comming out of the normandy.. to tell you "Ok there is no one getting out of the Normandy.. but they still have survived in it."  Oh and they show clearly the two moons..
And sorry.. you clearly see the two moons... in the ending old man thing too...

But somhow you seem to change your opinion like a porn star his partners in the movies they make...

[HellishFiend]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

IT doesn't necessarily think that it was planned by Bioware, it can just be a headcanon theory.

I have to disagree on that point. If it's headcanon theory then why are ANY of us still here? Why look for new evidence? Why call it evidence? Headcanon is something you can come up with on your own. It doesnt require a forum, pictures, or youtube videos. To me, the whole point of IT centers around the concept of it being Bioware's original intent. The "headcanon" perception issue is probably what cause most uninformed people to dismiss IT altogether. 

Well that's your opinion. But still, collecting evidence can be fun. And it can make the ending better for you, even if it was never intended.

I'm not sure how you can consider all the evidence that's been gathered thus far and not believe it was the original intent. Are you saying that's what you believe?

[spotlessvoid]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian,

I'd wondered about the Citadel situation myself. I couldn't figure why the Reapers didn't mass on it after arriving in Batarian space. Even with the Citadel fleet they'd walk through it like they do everything. From there they can eliminate most galactic leadership and proceed as they normally do when starting a cycle.

Another thing, The Destiny Ascension is the flagship for the Citadel fleet, if the Reapers sacked the Citadel it obviously made it out of the battle as you see it in the final fleet battle for Earth but nothing is mentioned over a battle for the Citadel aside from quick quotes from Anderson and Hackett.

And another thing, you retain your Citadel defense force war asset for the battle, wouldn't that mean C-sec and the defense force are still fighting even though it's been captured?

Well i had this theory that the Citadel might still be under C-Sec control, that they managed to close it before the Reapers got inside and the beam on Earth is really so that the Reapers can sned troops onto the Citadel to take it back.

But there is a short cutscene where you see the outermost part of the Citadel closing as it orbits over Earth <_<

Would have made sense since now that the Keeper signal is overridden and without someone like Saren onboard it should be little trouble to close the Citadel when the Reapers arrived. I am pretty sure the Citadel defense force could hold out at least that long...

Considered that too, still doesn't explain why they didn't hit it earlier.

Can you actually lose any war assets after obtaining them? If not the Citadel Defense Force still showing up may be strictly a gameplay mechanic. If so that's interesting, but difficult to extract meaning out of.

As far as waiting to go after the Citadel, perhaps the Reapers considered it not worth the risk/reward for the reasons gunslinger_ruiz points out. Once Shepard amasses a fleet powerful enough to at least threaten the Reapers with significant losses, the Reapers take the citadel to Earth, knowing Shepard will show up with everything he has, ready to take their shot at turning Shepard and have him sabotage the resistance.

[Ravereth]

BTW Am I the only one who thinks that Normandy (during this cutscene with Joker) is already far away from Earth? I'm 95% sure about this...

[Earthborn_Shepard]

HellishFiend wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

IT doesn't necessarily think that it was planned by Bioware, it can just be a headcanon theory.

I have to disagree on that point. If it's headcanon theory then why are ANY of us still here? Why look for new evidence? Why call it evidence? Headcanon is something you can come up with on your own. It doesnt require a forum, pictures, or youtube videos. To me, the whole point of IT centers around the concept of it being Bioware's original intent. The "headcanon" perception issue is probably what cause most uninformed people to dismiss IT altogether. 

Well that's your opinion. But still, collecting evidence can be fun. And it can make the ending better for you, even if it was never intended.

I'm not sure how you can consider all the evidence that's been gathered thus far and not believe it was the original intent. Are you saying that's what you believe?

Well.. I think it's possible that this was planned. But I'm sceptical. I don't want to be disappointed when Bioware finally says "scrap this, we never intended it". And it IS a viable option that they just screwed up.
Don't you think we're reading too much into some pieces of evidence? Well there are the dreams and whispers which are very convincing.. to me the most important piece of evidence right now is James saying that he hears a hum.

[Skillz1986]

@waldstr.18

Once again, wrong.
Nobody here thinks he "knows" what bioware planned/intended. our THEORY implies bioware planned it all alomg. we don't know..but the theory points towards it.

Although..saying that nobody believes he knows might be too much. i do not know it...i theorize about it

[HellishFiend]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Can you actually lose any war assets after obtaining them? If not the Citadel Defense Force still showing up may be strictly a gameplay mechanic. If so that's interesting, but difficult to extract meaning out of.

You can lose most of your Krogan support if you betray Wrex. That may be the only instance of losing a war asset, though, aside from some odd minuses here and there from minor decision-making.  

[waldstr18]

Vahilor wrote...

@Waldstr.
Why is IT even worse than retake the ending ^^ ? For BW it would be easier to go with IDT than retake it ^^.

But IDT is for me the only reasonable ending if you don't makea new ending... everything else (like trying to explain bad stuff) will make it worth and pull new oil in the fire..

well, call me gullable if you want, but i believe that the extended cutscenes will explain stuff just fine. not for everyone of course, especially not the hard core idt followers, but for me they will probably be sufficient. hell, i would have been sadisfied with 10 pages of text like at the end of jade empire.

and its not about whats easier for bioware (idt would be from a story telling stance but not from a marketing one), its about you not passive aggressively telling bioware what to do. also i dont think bioware should change anything about the ending, just add to it like they are intending. cause i respect their vision and if they ... well, better explanation. the misery movie: the evil woman didnt want the new book to start without accepting the established rules from the last one. the author had to find a way to logical explain the resurrection of the main character in his book. thats what i like as well. they released this ending and thats it. they have to go from there. at least i feel that way. in the end its up to them of course, but id like it better if they keep it and just extend it.

[HellishFiend]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Well.. I think it's possible that this was planned. But I'm sceptical. I don't want to be disappointed when Bioware finally says "scrap this, we never intended it". And it IS a viable option that they just screwed up.
Don't you think we're reading too much into some pieces of evidence? Well there are the dreams and whispers which are very convincing.. to me the most important piece of evidence right now is James saying that he hears a hum.

It would be foolish for us to think we're not reading too much into some things and even seeing some things that arent there. For example, lets assume for a second IT was bioware's intent. Someone noticed the trees look like neurons in the first dream sequence. Great, but that could very well just be a coincidence even if IT turns out to be true. 

Still, based on the overall picture and the sheer number of things that have turned up. In my opinion there is a staggeringly high chance that IT was bioware's intent. 

[Big G13]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

IT doesn't necessarily think that it was planned by Bioware, it can just be a headcanon theory.

I have to disagree on that point. If it's headcanon theory then why are ANY of us still here? Why look for new evidence? Why call it evidence? Headcanon is something you can come up with on your own. It doesnt require a forum, pictures, or youtube videos. To me, the whole point of IT centers around the concept of it being Bioware's original intent. The "headcanon" perception issue is probably what cause most uninformed people to dismiss IT altogether. 

Well that's your opinion. But still, collecting evidence can be fun. And it can make the ending better for you, even if it was never intended.

My hope is it was intended. I'm hanging on to that till the end. If not, then it will have to be head cannon because other wise all I can say about the ending is, " not like this. not like this" (matrix reference)

[waldstr18]

@vahilor

what if there was already a human colony on the planet with the two moons. see, no matter what you come up with, i can spin it so it makes sense my way. i cant proof it, but neither can you.

also id like to be a porn star, god knows ive the equipment for it.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Big G13 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

IT doesn't necessarily think that it was planned by Bioware, it can just be a headcanon theory.

I have to disagree on that point. If it's headcanon theory then why are ANY of us still here? Why look for new evidence? Why call it evidence? Headcanon is something you can come up with on your own. It doesnt require a forum, pictures, or youtube videos. To me, the whole point of IT centers around the concept of it being Bioware's original intent. The "headcanon" perception issue is probably what cause most uninformed people to dismiss IT altogether. 

Well that's your opinion. But still, collecting evidence can be fun. And it can make the ending better for you, even if it was never intended.

My hope is it was intended. I'm hanging on to that till the end. If not, then it will have to be head cannon because other wise all I can say about the ending is, " not like this. not like this" (matrix reference)

You know, I have the hope that even if it was not intended they might go with it for the EC. I mean, it would be little work for them because we pretty much figured it out for them. And it would be very dangerous for them to just dismiss the theory completely, because that would launch another wave of fan rage.

[Skillz1986]

@waldstr.18

Do you know how many authors have changed already published version of their books, because the readers pointed them to mistakes and unconsistencies? There was even a brittish author, very famous (being a british literature student i should remeber his name..i do not.too lazy to google it up) who did it regularly. there is nothing wrong with it.
And while misery is a great movie, this would have never happened. because authors actually send out copies pre release to get some feedback.

[HellishFiend]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

IT doesn't necessarily think that it was planned by Bioware, it can just be a headcanon theory.

I have to disagree on that point. If it's headcanon theory then why are ANY of us still here? Why look for new evidence? Why call it evidence? Headcanon is something you can come up with on your own. It doesnt require a forum, pictures, or youtube videos. To me, the whole point of IT centers around the concept of it being Bioware's original intent. The "headcanon" perception issue is probably what cause most uninformed people to dismiss IT altogether. 

Well that's your opinion. But still, collecting evidence can be fun. And it can make the ending better for you, even if it was never intended.

My hope is it was intended. I'm hanging on to that till the end. If not, then it will have to be head cannon because other wise all I can say about the ending is, " not like this. not like this" (matrix reference)

You know, I have the hope that even if it was not intended they might go with it for the EC. I mean, it would be little work for them because we pretty much figured it out for them. And it would be very dangerous for them to just dismiss the theory completely, because that would launch another wave of fan rage.

I would be 100% happy if IT was bioware's intent, but I would only be 50% happy if it wasnt and they chose to "go along with it". 

I firmly believe bioware is smart, ambitious, and capable enough to have this planned out from the start, but I also admittedly have an optimistic sense of hope that Bioware is not capable of writing a face-value ending as horrible artistic as the one we have. 

[Vahilor]

waldstr18 wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

@Waldstr.
Why is IT even worse than retake the ending ^^ ? For BW it would be easier to go with IDT than retake it ^^.

But IDT is for me the only reasonable ending if you don't makea new ending... everything else (like trying to explain bad stuff) will make it worth and pull new oil in the fire..

well, call me gullable if you want, but i believe that the extended cutscenes will explain stuff just fine. not for everyone of course, especially not the hard core idt followers, but for me they will probably be sufficient. hell, i would have been sadisfied with 10 pages of text like at the end of jade empire.

and its not about whats easier for bioware (idt would be from a story telling stance but not from a marketing one), its about you not passive aggressively telling bioware what to do. also i dont think bioware should change anything about the ending, just add to it like they are intending. cause i respect their vision and if they ... well, better explanation. the misery movie: the evil woman didnt want the new book to start without accepting the established rules from the last one. the author had to find a way to logical explain the resurrection of the main character in his book. thats what i like as well. they released this ending and thats it. they have to go from there. at least i feel that way. in the end its up to them of course, but id like it better if they keep it and just extend it.

I really doubt the extended cut will make it any better to be honest... I have little hope they will make it in a reasoable way to satisfy the fan base... and I'm not the only person.. a lot of the fan base have the same thoughts (a lot of non IT people as well).
"Artistic Integrigy" like BW tends to call it, is nothing you can afford in case of marketing, when you have an outcry as big as this one and there are a lot of books, movies and musicals that had been changed cause of much smaller outcrys and it was for the sake of the story.

Hey even BW wanted the last Mass Effect novel changed cause of plot wholes.. why do they not regard the "artistic integrigy" of the author here ?

[waldstr18]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

You know, I have the hope that even if it was not intended they might go with it for the EC. I mean, it would be little work for them because we pretty much figured it out for them. And it would be very dangerous for them to just dismiss the theory completely, because that would launch another wave of fan rage.

thats what i meant with passive aggressive. by giving the not so smart ones something to believe in, you force bioware to consider the idt, cause otherwise the not so smart ones will rampage once again.

you know, if they manage to sadisfy everyone, i might actually call them geniuses, for i think thats truely impossible.

[Skillz1986]

Did you just call someone in particular " not so smart?"

[waldstr18]

Vahilor wrote...

I really doubt the extended cut will make it any better to be honest... I have little hope they will make it in a reasoable way to satisfy the fan base... and I'm not the only person.. a lot of the fan base have the same thoughts (a lot of non IT people as well).
"Artistic Integrigy" like BW tends to call it, is nothing you can afford in case of marketing, when you have an outcry as big as this one and there are a lot of books, movies and musicals that had been changed cause of much smaller outcrys and it was for the sake of the story.

Hey even BW wanted the last Mass Effect novel changed cause of plot wholes.. why do they not regard the "artistic integrigy" of the author here ?

cause as far as i have heard, and im really talking out of my ass here, there were actual factual errors in the book.

as for the game, what factual errors are in there, which cant be explained by some creative thinking? (a short list is sufficient, if you dont mind)

[HellishFiend]

waldstr18 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

You know, I have the hope that even if it was not intended they might go with it for the EC. I mean, it would be little work for them because we pretty much figured it out for them. And it would be very dangerous for them to just dismiss the theory completely, because that would launch another wave of fan rage.

thats what i meant with passive aggressive. by giving the not so smart ones something to believe in, you force bioware to consider the idt, cause otherwise the not so smart ones will rampage once again.

you know, if they manage to sadisfy everyone, i might actually call them geniuses, for i think thats truely impossible.

Feel free to disagree, but I'm fairly sure that if IT is true, everyone will be satisfied. The only people that wouldnt be are the ones that would suffer a blow to their ego for being wrong about the ending being face-value. I think the signs are strong that even the people who believe the ending is face-value (but dont have a prideful stake in it) will be thrilled at how the IT ending will turn out, based on what we've seen. 

[Vahilor]

waldstr18 wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

I really doubt the extended cut will make it any better to be honest... I have little hope they will make it in a reasoable way to satisfy the fan base... and I'm not the only person.. a lot of the fan base have the same thoughts (a lot of non IT people as well).
"Artistic Integrigy" like BW tends to call it, is nothing you can afford in case of marketing, when you have an outcry as big as this one and there are a lot of books, movies and musicals that had been changed cause of much smaller outcrys and it was for the sake of the story.

Hey even BW wanted the last Mass Effect novel changed cause of plot wholes.. why do they not regard the "artistic integrigy" of the author here ?

cause as far as i have heard, and im really talking out of my ass here, there were actual factual errors in the book.

as for the game, what factual errors are in there, which cant be explained by some creative thinking? (a short list is sufficient, if you dont mind)

To name only one "Synthesis." 

Can't be explained without tweaking the whole Mass Effect univers.

[Big G13]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

IT doesn't necessarily think that it was planned by Bioware, it can just be a headcanon theory.

I have to disagree on that point. If it's headcanon theory then why are ANY of us still here? Why look for new evidence? Why call it evidence? Headcanon is something you can come up with on your own. It doesnt require a forum, pictures, or youtube videos. To me, the whole point of IT centers around the concept of it being Bioware's original intent. The "headcanon" perception issue is probably what cause most uninformed people to dismiss IT altogether. 

Well that's your opinion. But still, collecting evidence can be fun. And it can make the ending better for you, even if it was never intended.

My hope is it was intended. I'm hanging on to that till the end. If not, then it will have to be head cannon because other wise all I can say about the ending is, " not like this. not like this" (matrix reference)

You know, I have the hope that even if it was not intended they might go with it for the EC. I mean, it would be little work for them because we pretty much figured it out for them. And it would be very dangerous for them to just dismiss the theory completely, because that would launch another wave of fan rage.

Agreed. And I understand your caution. I mean, we just got kicked in the quad. The last thing I want to do is open myself up and say, 'thank you sir, can I have another.' 

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Big G13 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

IT doesn't necessarily think that it was planned by Bioware, it can just be a headcanon theory.

I have to disagree on that point. If it's headcanon theory then why are ANY of us still here? Why look for new evidence? Why call it evidence? Headcanon is something you can come up with on your own. It doesnt require a forum, pictures, or youtube videos. To me, the whole point of IT centers around the concept of it being Bioware's original intent. The "headcanon" perception issue is probably what cause most uninformed people to dismiss IT altogether. 

Well that's your opinion. But still, collecting evidence can be fun. And it can make the ending better for you, even if it was never intended.

My hope is it was intended. I'm hanging on to that till the end. If not, then it will have to be head cannon because other wise all I can say about the ending is, " not like this. not like this" (matrix reference)

You know, I have the hope that even if it was not intended they might go with it for the EC. I mean, it would be little work for them because we pretty much figured it out for them. And it would be very dangerous for them to just dismiss the theory completely, because that would launch another wave of fan rage.

Agreed. And I understand your caution. I mean, we just got kicked in the quad. The last thing I want to do is open myself up and say, 'thank you sir, can I have another.' 

If Bioware announces that IT was not planned, but goes with it anyway for the EC, my reaction will be similar to Shep's when accusing the shop owner of discrimination in ME2: "Alright... but you still hurt my feelings."