57139 réponses à ce sujet

[MadRabbit999]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

I really doubt the extended cut will make it any better to be honest... I have little hope they will make it in a reasoable way to satisfy the fan base... and I'm not the only person.. a lot of the fan base have the same thoughts (a lot of non IT people as well).
"Artistic Integrigy" like BW tends to call it, is nothing you can afford in case of marketing, when you have an outcry as big as this one and there are a lot of books, movies and musicals that had been changed cause of much smaller outcrys and it was for the sake of the story.

Hey even BW wanted the last Mass Effect novel changed cause of plot wholes.. why do they not regard the "artistic integrigy" of the author here ?

cause as far as i have heard, and im really talking out of my ass here, there were actual factual errors in the book.

as for the game, what factual errors are in there, which cant be explained by some creative thinking? (a short list is sufficient, if you dont mind)

To name only one "Synthesis." 

Can't be explained without tweaking the whole Mass Effect univers.

whats there to tweak? have we ever met a transparent god child creature? how do we know what powers that boy has? how do we know that the citadel + catalyst + cruicble != space magic. and how do we know that what we call space magic isnt actual sience in the game?

there is a big green explosion and it mutates beings. just like tchernobyl mutated a lot of people. space magic or just sience? i have learned a few days ago that pretty much everything in physics is a theory. so what do we know? nothing, actually. and i know even less about a universe i didnt create. be it the mass effect one or the real one.

hmm do you think there are mutliple verses and in one of them the idt is true and in another it isnt? am i still allowed to tell you in your face if both universes exist? 

Chernobyl (or radiation in general) does not make people half metal (or whatever synthesis makes people). Even if we accept the ludicrius scenario that a wave of green energy could make everyone essentially half robot it is still completely outrageous to think something like that could be incoporated on the DNA level to the point where it can be passed on to the children os such persons.

It is like if someone with an implant had a child and that child was born with the same implant and the implant grew as the child grew without any outside force acting upon. There are simply some fundamental impossibilities in Synthesis which are completely absent in most of if not all other parts of the lore.

Really dont give me the "Space Magic is Science in that universe" bull because everything, or almost everything in Mass Effect has roots in firmly established theories of physics or biology, except for Synthesis.

Except that the Synthesis REWRITES DNA to include components that did not exist before... it does not ADD to it, so anything can be possible, the laws of how life works can be radically rewritten this way. Also... you did not watch many sci-fi as a kid, did you?

Magic, is only magic until the day you can explain it through modern technology.

The world was round concept, was as idiotic and ridiculous as flying pigs to us...  until someone prooved it.

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 24 avril 2012 - 10:57 .

[Vahilor]

*hands cookies to IDT people*

[waldstr18]

what other space magic is there then the synthesis?

the crew being on the normandy? joker could have just picked them up and overlooked sheppard being alive. i think i read about some cut dialog proofing just that.

edit: flying pigs are ridiculous? to you maybe! ride on my flying piggy, ride on! (could someone play the valkyrie music)

Modifié par waldstr18, 24 avril 2012 - 10:59 .

[HellishFiend]

Skillz1986 wrote...

 that they're going to have the best god damn steak (i fu**ing love steak liara) in the world. i sure expect to at least get some steak..

Negative. There can be no retreat. No stepping back. No stepping forward, and no defeating reaper forces! Innocent people die!

[MadRabbit999]

HellishFiend wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

I used to believe the IT was possible (Even though I wasn't 100%), but the fact that they stated , that the current endings are meant to be what they are, is proof enough to me to dismiss it.

I am not saying they sold us an unfinished game, because obviously you can complete it, but the story arch of Shepard would still be open if IT was true, and since they said they will not make a new ending, it means Shepard would be stuck on the last 5 minutes of the story forever, that doesn't make sense.

You're lucky this isnt a certain popular imageboard or for that remark you would be treated to a picture of a smug willy wonka kindly welcoming you to the topic. 

/clap clap dude... check 1000 pages before.. been here since the start, and I defended IT as well as dismiss it in most cases, I took equal side unlike some obtuse people here....

Well then you're back to "new" status if you think Bioware's statements indicate a dismissal of IT. They have gone out of their way to neither confirm nor deny it. Everything they have said can be put into the context of IT, or face-value. It's intentional. They want to keep us guessing. We've known this ever since PAX....

edit: sorry, I'm being rude. I apologize. It's late for me and I should get some sleep. 

Yes so what you are saying is that Shepard story is unfinished and will remain so... beause they STATED they will NOT add new endings, and will NOT continue the character of Shepard in new games.

Just answer this please.

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 24 avril 2012 - 10:59 .

[HellishFiend]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3oxxjp/

LOL, I had a feeling someone would bring in one of those after I mentioned him. 

[Earthborn_Shepard]

HellishFiend wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

 that they're going to have the best god damn steak (i fu**ing love steak liara) in the world. i sure expect to at least get some steak..

Negative. There can be no retreat. No stepping back. No stepping forward, and no defeating reaper forces! Innocent people die!

SAY WHAT????


....



EXACTLY.

[Skillz1986]

@hellishfiend
..wh..what?

[Big G13]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3oxxjp/

lol. I hadn't seen that, thanks.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

waldstr18 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

I really doubt the extended cut will make it any better to be honest... I have little hope they will make it in a reasoable way to satisfy the fan base... and I'm not the only person.. a lot of the fan base have the same thoughts (a lot of non IT people as well).
"Artistic Integrigy" like BW tends to call it, is nothing you can afford in case of marketing, when you have an outcry as big as this one and there are a lot of books, movies and musicals that had been changed cause of much smaller outcrys and it was for the sake of the story.

Hey even BW wanted the last Mass Effect novel changed cause of plot wholes.. why do they not regard the "artistic integrigy" of the author here ?

cause as far as i have heard, and im really talking out of my ass here, there were actual factual errors in the book.

as for the game, what factual errors are in there, which cant be explained by some creative thinking? (a short list is sufficient, if you dont mind)

To name only one "Synthesis." 

Can't be explained without tweaking the whole Mass Effect univers.

whats there to tweak? have we ever met a transparent god child creature? how do we know what powers that boy has? how do we know that the citadel + catalyst + cruicble != space magic. and how do we know that what we call space magic isnt actual sience in the game?

there is a big green explosion and it mutates beings. just like tchernobyl mutated a lot of people. space magic or just sience? i have learned a few days ago that pretty much everything in physics is a theory. so what do we know? nothing, actually. and i know even less about a universe i didnt create. be it the mass effect one or the real one.

hmm do you think there are mutliple verses and in one of them the idt is true and in another it isnt? am i still allowed to tell you in your face if both universes exist? 

Chernobyl (or radiation in general) does not make people half metal (or whatever synthesis makes people). Even if we accept the ludicrius scenario that a wave of green energy could make everyone essentially half robot it is still completely outrageous to think something like that could be incoporated on the DNA level to the point where it can be passed on to the children os such persons.

It is like if someone with an implant had a child and that child was born with the same implant and the implant grew as the child grew without any outside force acting upon. There are simply some fundamental impossibilities in Synthesis which are completely absent in most of if not all other parts of the lore.

Really dont give me the "Space Magic is Science in that universe" bull because everything, or almost everything in Mass Effect has roots in firmly established theories of physics or biology, except for Synthesis.

who says something about implants or metal for that matter? the kid said new framework. if you remember the geth mind thingy we saw as hologram on the normandy, looked like a living thing but was synthetic.

what im trying to say, the farther you step back, the easier it gets to explain things. also since we have seen the geth/living thing brain, i call synthesis established!

please dont bite my head off... again.

That Geth "living thing" was a visualization of how the Geth network worked. The more Geth linked together the greater the mental power like synapses in the brain...with the Reaper code each individual Geth gets upgrade to a self contained AI aka they dont need other linked units to be self aware.

That does not change the fact that every single part of that process takes place in a wholely metallic body using made entirely of Synthetic materials. there is not a single piece of organicly created or molded material in that entire structure, it is wholely Artificial.

It has nothing, nothing to do with Synthesis which is combination of Synthetic and Organic at the deepest level. This implies that an organic body can somehow now create the synthetic material which is a part of it like it was blood cells. It would be like a robot regrowing its leg.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Big G13 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3oxxjp/

lol. I hadn't seen that, thanks.

Because I just created it.

[DJBare]

waldstr18 wrote...

@hellishfiend

but isnt that the same thing. you pretend to know biowares intentions. well you dont, so you cant just say that. some of you actually dont do that, i know, they treat the theory like what it is ... a theory. but most of you treat it like its fact, which implies you believe to know what bioware is thinking.

Well many of us with the Final Hours app don't have to pretend, it's in there for us to see, they had deffintely planned on the Reapers taking control of Shepard(player control removed), but they could not get it to work well with the engine so they dropped it.

[HellishFiend]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yes so what you are saying is that Shepard story is unfinished and will remain so... beause they STATED they will NOT add new endings, and will NOT continue the character of Shepard in new games.

Just answer this please.

Fine, this will be the 3rd time I've answered it today, though, and I'm tired, so it will be a bit rough.

Bioware stated Mass Effect 3 is the end of Shepard's story. They did not say DLC will not continue Shepard story before theyre finished with it. 
Bioware states the EC will "expand" on the current ending and provide "further context". In my humble opinion, the words "expand" and "further context" actually make more sense if IT is true than if the endings are to be taken at face value. Why not just call it an epilogue instead of an "extended cut"?

Bioware has carefully chosen their words so that they can be taken in the context of both IT and face value interpretations, and again in my humble opinion, I think they are doing that intentionally to keep us guessing.

Understanding why their statements do not categorically rule out the EC being comprised of the consequences of IT being true involves just having a firm grasp of the english language and the words they use. People keep saying that Bioware has "ruled it out" or otherwise stated IT is false, when they have done no such thing. 

[HellishFiend]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@hellishfiend
..wh..what?

You havent seen the second one?? It's GOLD, my friend!

 

[DJBare]

Final Hours App, only $2.99

[Big G13]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3oxxjp/

lol. I hadn't seen that, thanks.

Because I just created it.

I am surrounded by talented people. I feel so underdressed. metaphorically speaking of coarse.

[waldstr18]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

That Geth "living thing" was a visualization of how the Geth network worked. The more Geth linked together the greater the mental power like synapses in the brain...with the Reaper code each individual Geth gets upgrade to a self contained AI aka they dont need other linked units to be self aware.

That does not change the fact that every single part of that process takes place in a wholely metallic body using made entirely of Synthetic materials. there is not a single piece of organicly created or molded material in that entire structure, it is wholely Artificial.

It has nothing, nothing to do with Synthesis which is combination of Synthetic and Organic at the deepest level. This implies that an organic body can somehow now create the synthetic material which is a part of it like it was blood cells. It would be like a robot regrowing its leg.

metal is just matter. just like flesh is. if you press carbon hard enough, you get diamonds. and i have heard we are all carbon based life forms (dont laugh, i actually have never been to a single chemestry lesson). also a few years back i saw a video of guy who cried crystals. and thats just the real universe.

who says that with a little tweaking we cant grow metal things just like we can grow finger nails?

could the smart person with the flying pigs come to my help again, please? i clearly am just speculating and not only about the mass effect universe but also about our actual one. in my next playthrough i promise i will not skip school so much, ok?

[waldstr18]

DJBare wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

@hellishfiend

but isnt that the same thing. you pretend to know biowares intentions. well you dont, so you cant just say that. some of you actually dont do that, i know, they treat the theory like what it is ... a theory. but most of you treat it like its fact, which implies you believe to know what bioware is thinking.

Well many of us with the Final Hours app don't have to pretend, it's in there for us to see, they had deffintely planned on the Reapers taking control of Shepard(player control removed), but they could not get it to work well with the engine so they dropped it.

so what are we arguing about? they dropped it. case closed. (assuming what you are saying is true)

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

waldstr18 wrote...

what other space magic is there then the synthesis?

the crew being on the normandy? joker could have just picked them up and overlooked sheppard being alive. i think i read about some cut dialog proofing just that.

edit: flying pigs are ridiculous? to you maybe! ride on my flying piggy, ride on! (could someone play the valkyrie music)

Oh, oh you want to know some other Space Magic in the ending?

Okay granted Joker and the Crew leaving is not Space magic it is only a contradiction of their very basic characters and the loyalty which Shepard supposedly inspires in those around him as shown...across all 3 games. The people on board the Normandy followed Shepard against Sovreign, through the Omega 4 relay and across the war ravaged worlds of Tuchanka and Thessia without hesitating...and then they all turn tails and run in the last fight whcih should decide the fate of the galaxy...but no, not Space magic.

What is Space Magic however is Shepard supposedly surviving these things in the destroy ending:

1: All Synthetic life supposedly getting destroyed
2: A 8 km wide fireball capable of ripping apart quantum shielded material with Shepard near ground zero.
3: The vacuum of Space
4: Orbital reentry
5: All of the above in a burned out armor with no helmet and kinetic barriers.

Oh and after impact he is still able to take a deep breath.

Try explaining this in any kind of locigal way.

[Rifneno]

People. Stop talking to Belligerence. Seriously.

Big G13 wrote...

And why take it at all. It is already strategically placed far from any planet by Reaper design. Why not move part of their force to the Citadel and shut down or control the relay. It would take a very long time to move the crucible there by conventional means. And Reapers have all the time in the world. Instead they move it right to the heart of the fight. Pride? Over confidence? You got me.

The best place to put it would have been through the Omega-4 Relay and just change the damn IFF on it. Honestly, I consider it a plot hole that the Reapers were seriously in dark space to begin with unless there's something we don't know. Like they were harvesting the Milky Way's satellite galaxies or something. I mean really, the Omega-4 Mass Relay was a completely impassable barrier. If they didn't retardedly leave a dead comrade floating around a brown dwarf, there'd be no way to get in. Their IFF is far too complex to hack especially when every attempt means a lost ship, and even if people knew that it went to the galactic core it'd be virtually impossible to get there with conventional FTL because the entire region is a minefield of astronomical horrors.

Hell, they didn't even need to hide in the galactic core. They could have hid in the Milky Way and nobody would ever stumble upon them. Seriously, less than 1% of stars are known/mapped by current organic races. And stars aren't exactly inconspicuous. Now consider the distance between stars, empty space with almost no light. Let me put it in perspective for those that didn't get anal about astronomy research for this game like I did. Scientists estimate that the Milky Way will collide with Andromeda in.... I don't remember, few billion years or something. Anyway. Despite the fact that both galaxies have hundreds of billions of stars, it's highly unlikely that any two stars will collide as the galaxies meet. That's how much nothing there is between stars. The Reapers could have hid under our noses and we'd never know it. The chances of organics stumbling on them by accident in an area as big as the Milky Way isn't even like a needle in a haystack. It's like a needle 7 atoms long in a haystack the size of Jupiter. Statistically speaking, it's insulting to one's intelligence to even imply there's a chance it would happen.

... What the hell were we talking about? Oh, right, the Citadel! Yeah, they could've hid it anywhere and we'd have never found it.

Big G13 wrote...
I was referring to the endless statements of 'no offense' immediately followed by offensive statements.

"Why is it that whenever someone says 'with all due respect', what they really mean is 'kiss my ass'?" - Some idiot in ME1. With all due respect to her.

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

If Bioware announces that IT was not planned, but goes with it anyway for the EC, my reaction will be similar to Shep's when accusing the shop owner of discrimination in ME2: "Alright... but you still hurt my feelings."

I wish Shepard was remotely that funny in 3.

MadRabbit999 wrote...

I used to believe the IT was possible (Even though I wasn't 100%), but the fact that they stated , that the current endings are meant to be what they are, is proof enough to me to dismiss it.

That's what I thought too, until I realized things were said more than a week ago and that for every statement they've given us lately that implies the end is meant at face value there's 5 quotes from pre-release that flat out state things about the ending that were clearly not meant about this one.

Long term memory rules.

[waldstr18]

crap. my touchpad just froze, have to restart x, give me a moment and ill try and speculate the hell out your space magic

[Vahilor]

waldstr18 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

That Geth "living thing" was a visualization of how the Geth network worked. The more Geth linked together the greater the mental power like synapses in the brain...with the Reaper code each individual Geth gets upgrade to a self contained AI aka they dont need other linked units to be self aware.

That does not change the fact that every single part of that process takes place in a wholely metallic body using made entirely of Synthetic materials. there is not a single piece of organicly created or molded material in that entire structure, it is wholely Artificial.

It has nothing, nothing to do with Synthesis which is combination of Synthetic and Organic at the deepest level. This implies that an organic body can somehow now create the synthetic material which is a part of it like it was blood cells. It would be like a robot regrowing its leg.

metal is just matter. just like flesh is. if you press carbon hard enough, you get diamonds. and i have heard we are all carbon based life forms (dont laugh, i actually have never been to a single chemestry lesson). also a few years back i saw a video of guy who cried crystals. and thats just the real universe.

who says that with a little tweaking we cant grow metal things just like we can grow finger nails?

could the smart person with the flying pigs come to my help again, please? i clearly am just speculating and not only about the mass effect universe but also about our actual one. in my next playthrough i promise i will not skip school so much, ok?

Probably you should start reading biologie and chemistry books to comprehend the differences...

[Skillz1986]

@helllishfiend

no i have not seen it. but it IS gold..i care about you ash..miranda...DAMN IT.

[Big G13]

HellishFiend wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

@hellishfiend
..wh..what?

You havent seen the second one?? It's GOLD, my friend!

 

LMFAO! absolute gold.

[MadRabbit999]

HellishFiend wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yes so what you are saying is that Shepard story is unfinished and will remain so... beause they STATED they will NOT add new endings, and will NOT continue the character of Shepard in new games.

Just answer this please.

Fine, this will be the 3rd time I've answered it today, though, and I'm tired, so it will be a bit rough.

Bioware stated Mass Effect 3 is the end of Shepard's story. They did not say DLC will not continue Shepard story before theyre finished with it. 
Bioware states the EC will "expand" on the current ending and provide "further context". In my humble opinion, the words "expand" and "further context" actually make more sense if IT is true than if the endings are to be taken at face value. Why not just call it an epilogue instead of an "extended cut"?

Bioware has carefully chosen their words so that they can be taken in the context of both IT and face value interpretations, and again in my humble opinion, I think they are doing that intentionally to keep us guessing.

Understanding why their statements do not categorically rule out the EC being comprised of the consequences of IT being true involves just having a firm grasp of the english language and the words they use. People keep saying that Bioware has "ruled it out" or otherwise stated IT is false, when they have done no such thing. 

Sorry but there is a contradiction in this... they said they will not be adding new endings... and if we get to play him post Indoctrination, then it WILL require a new ending, simple logic. (And there wil lbe no ME4 with Shepard, beacuse again, they stated, this is game will have the conclusion of Shepard story).

They said no new endings, period. Now you can beleive this means no new ending before IT or whatever, but that is beyond hanging on straws.

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 24 avril 2012 - 11:20 .