57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Dnayew]

SubAstris wrote...

Dnayew wrote...

bFootball wrote...

I don't know if someone else has noticed this, but I've just started my third play through and noticed Shepard's wound in the final scene is in the same place Anderson touches Shepard in opening cut scene ("soft around the edges"). Maybe Shepard is subconsciously remembering it.

I just noticed that to when playing through w/ my FemShep character (yes, sadly I have a FemShep character...lol).

Also, I noticed that when you're talking to the little boy  **cough** Harbinger **cough **, you don't just hear a sound similar to the growling noise described in the books, you hear the EXACT SAME SOUND you hear when the Illusive Man overcomes Indoctrination right before he takes his own life.

This was staggering proof to me that the Indoctrination Theory holds weight.

Proof of this?

Here's the scene w/ the Illusive man



Couldn't find a youtube of the kid at the begining; just start a playthrough. It'll take you like 6 minutes.

[Vahilor]

And sorry people (the ANti IT guys).. but BW clearly stated they don't wanna change the endings.. so IT is the only reasonable explanation for all the mess... I don't know if BW intended it in the end.. probably in some degrees they did.. but I think the only way to go now is IDT...if BW doesn't the endings will not be much better like they are now..

If they had written "We totaly change the endings" everything would be possible but atm but what do you want atm ? That Bioware pulls more Space Magic rabbits out of their hats ?

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Cool. Then why are you here if you're not making any contributive argument?

Felt I needed to explain why the evidence is far from adequate, didn't realise this was only for pro-ITers and not a forum for free discussion

Oh look, it's that guy that says absolutly nothing when he talks. If you want to  disprove IT you need to come up with a logical hypothesis. Attacking singular peices of evidence will get you no where because THERE IS JUST TOO MUCH.

Modifié par balance5050, 24 avril 2012 - 04:29 .

[lex0r11]

SS2Dante wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

When someone has a second to defend IT please answer this one before it goes lost:

"In this video, TIM shoots Anderson, then Shepards shoots TIM. If Anderson shot in the stomach is reflected on Shepard ,then why when Anderson is shot in the back is not reflected on Shepard?

"

Makes the whole "Shepard is shooting himself" like BS to me.

Two reasons, one practical and one thematic. The thematic takes precedence obviously.

Thematically - in this ending the indoctrinated part of Shepard shot Anderson, not "Shepard".

Practically - bececause then Shepard would be dead.

Because Shepard can survive almost anything!

[Unschuld]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

When someone has a second to defend IT please answer this one before it goes lost:

"In this video, TIM shoots Anderson, then Shepards shoots TIM. If Anderson shot in the stomach is reflected on Shepard ,then why when Anderson is shot in the back is not reflected on Shepard?

"

Makes the whole "Shepard is shooting himself" like BS to me.

Because he's just "dead" in a quicker fashion. Shep can't exactly turn his head 180 degrees either. He still looks at his stomach wound. 

[SubAstris]

SS2Dante wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

When someone has a second to defend IT please answer this one before it goes lost:

"In this video, TIM shoots Anderson, then Shepards shoots TIM. If Anderson shot in the stomach is reflected on Shepard ,then why when Anderson is shot in the back is not reflected on Shepard?

"

Makes the whole "Shepard is shooting himself" like BS to me.

Two reasons, one practical and one thematic. The thematic takes precedence obviously.

Thematically - in this ending the indoctrinated part of Shepard shot Anderson, not "Shepard".

Practically - bececause then Shepard would be dead.

Thematically - in this ending the indoctrinated part of Shepard shot Anderson, not "Shepard"- so the evidence that Shepard has the same wounds as Anderson, and therefore is Anderson, is bull***p?

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Cool. Then why are you here if you're not making any contributive argument?

Felt I needed to explain why the evidence is far from adequate, didn't realise this was only for pro-ITers and not a forum for free discussion

Oh look, it's that guy that says absolutly nothing when he talks. If you want to  disprove IT you need to come up with a logical hypothesis. Attacking singular peices of evidence will get you no where because THERE IS JUST TOO MUCH.

That is your opinion, I am just saying it is weak evidence at best, and you have not provided a counter-argument for that point so I will assume there is none that you can

[Rifneno]

Sero303 wrote...

I think the indoctrination theory fits like that missing puzzle piece that gets lost. But apparently the Indoc. Theory has lost some popularity lately. I've seen a lot of people ripping the IT a new one...

Same mob mentality that mocked people for saying the world might be round.

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

When someone has a second to defend IT please answer this one before it goes lost:

"In this video, TIM shoots Anderson, then Shepards shoots TIM. If Anderson shot in the stomach is reflected on Shepard ,then why when Anderson is shot in the back is not reflected on Shepard?

"

Makes the whole "Shepard is shooting himself" like BS to me.

Two reasons, one practical and one thematic. The thematic takes precedence obviously.

Thematically - in this ending the indoctrinated part of Shepard shot Anderson, not "Shepard".

Practically - bececause then Shepard would be dead.

Thematically - in this ending the indoctrinated part of Shepard shot Anderson, not "Shepard"- so the evidence that Shepard has the same wounds as Anderson, and therefore is Anderson, is bull***p?

No no, you don't get it, basically the only thing that is "real" is what Shep does, so it only makes sense that the wound is real because he actually pulled the trigger. Everything else is in Sheps head.

Modifié par balance5050, 24 avril 2012 - 04:34 .

[n00bsauce2010]

SubAstris wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

bFootball wrote...

I don't know if someone else has noticed this, but I've just started my third play through and noticed Shepard's wound in the final scene is in the same place Anderson touches Shepard in opening cut scene ("soft around the edges"). Maybe Shepard is subconsciously remembering it.

If Shepard had touched something unique, such as his back, knee or foot both times then you might have something, but that just seems to be twisting the evidence for the theory. There is little evidence for anything here

Cool. Then why are you here if you're not making any contributive argument?

Felt I needed to explain why the evidence is far from adequate, didn't realise this was only for pro-ITers and not a forum for free discussion

It doesn't seem to me like you're explaining why the evidence is far from adequate. You're merely just stating your opinion as so without explaining why you think that. No offense to you and your opinion.

Maybe you don't understand the point of this forum. It is to discuss the indoctrination theory. Supporter or  not, you should not just simply say "It is wrong" and these things should not be considered evidence. Why do you think those things should be disregarded as evidence? Explain that and then you'll look less like a troll and more like a contributer to the overall discussion. And people of both sides will gawk at the opportunity to discuss your counter-arguments.

[SS2Dante]

Dnayew wrote...

bFootball wrote...

I don't know if someone else has noticed this, but I've just started my third play through and noticed Shepard's wound in the final scene is in the same place Anderson touches Shepard in opening cut scene ("soft around the edges"). Maybe Shepard is subconsciously remembering it.

I just noticed that to when playing through w/ my FemShep character (yes, sadly I have a FemShep character...lol).

Also, I noticed that when you're talking to the little boy  **cough** Harbinger **cough **, you don't just hear a sound similar to the growling noise described in the books, you hear the EXACT SAME SOUND you hear when the Illusive Man overcomes Indoctrination right before he takes his own life.

This was staggering proof to me that the Indoctrination Theory holds weight.

Dnayew  I checked on youtube and I'm not hearing this. Think you may have misheard. Any links?

[SubAstris]

Dnayew wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Dnayew wrote...

bFootball wrote...

I don't know if someone else has noticed this, but I've just started my third play through and noticed Shepard's wound in the final scene is in the same place Anderson touches Shepard in opening cut scene ("soft around the edges"). Maybe Shepard is subconsciously remembering it.

I just noticed that to when playing through w/ my FemShep character (yes, sadly I have a FemShep character...lol).

Also, I noticed that when you're talking to the little boy  **cough** Harbinger **cough **, you don't just hear a sound similar to the growling noise described in the books, you hear the EXACT SAME SOUND you hear when the Illusive Man overcomes Indoctrination right before he takes his own life.

This was staggering proof to me that the Indoctrination Theory holds weight.

Proof of this?

Here's the scene w/ the Illusive man



Couldn't find a youtube of the kid at the begining; just start a playthrough. It'll take you like 6 minutes.

And where exactly is this "growl" which perfectly mirrors the one after the kid exactly? Exact time?

[n00bsauce2010]

Rifneno wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

I think the indoctrination theory fits like that missing puzzle piece that gets lost. But apparently the Indoc. Theory has lost some popularity lately. I've seen a lot of people ripping the IT a new one...

Same mob mentality that mocked people for saying the world might be round.

Oddly enough, there is stil a group of people who support the notion that the Earth is indeed flat. When we have significant evidence to tell them otherwise, they deny it.

[Rifneno]

Uncle Jo wrote...

This was my thought too. But there are still ToR and DA2 and I don't forget the "new commander on board" (you know who I mean). I'm secrely hoping that I'm wrong and that the EC will confirm it... Till then, i'll stay a little bit sceptical...

Yeah but the thing is, all of DA2 was an abortion. Don't know what ToR is. ME3, OTOH, was simply awesome up until London. Both the geth/quarian and genophage story arcs were just masterpieces.

[Simon_Says]

balance5050 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

When someone has a second to defend IT please answer this one before it goes lost:

"In this video, TIM shoots Anderson, then Shepards shoots TIM. If Anderson shot in the stomach is reflected on Shepard ,then why when Anderson is shot in the back is not reflected on Shepard?

"

Makes the whole "Shepard is shooting himself" like BS to me.

Because Shepard pulled the trigger, Everything else is part of Sheps imagination so it would only be symbolic.

The wound only shows up on shep because it was shep that pulled the trigger.

Also, note that unless your EMS is in the highest bracket, Shepard -does not survive- Anderson getting shot. Yeah it takes a while but well, yeah...

[DJBare]

You know what I notice through all this?, Anderson always remains unscathed

[Simon_Says]

SubAstris wrote...

Dnayew wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Dnayew wrote...

bFootball wrote...

I don't know if someone else has noticed this, but I've just started my third play through and noticed Shepard's wound in the final scene is in the same place Anderson touches Shepard in opening cut scene ("soft around the edges"). Maybe Shepard is subconsciously remembering it.

I just noticed that to when playing through w/ my FemShep character (yes, sadly I have a FemShep character...lol).

Also, I noticed that when you're talking to the little boy  **cough** Harbinger **cough **, you don't just hear a sound similar to the growling noise described in the books, you hear the EXACT SAME SOUND you hear when the Illusive Man overcomes Indoctrination right before he takes his own life.

This was staggering proof to me that the Indoctrination Theory holds weight.

Proof of this?

Here's the scene w/ the Illusive man



Couldn't find a youtube of the kid at the begining; just start a playthrough. It'll take you like 6 minutes.

And where exactly is this "growl" which perfectly mirrors the one after the kid exactly? Exact time?

0:43

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

When someone has a second to defend IT please answer this one before it goes lost:

"In this video, TIM shoots Anderson, then Shepards shoots TIM. If Anderson shot in the stomach is reflected on Shepard ,then why when Anderson is shot in the back is not reflected on Shepard?

"

Makes the whole "Shepard is shooting himself" like BS to me.

Two reasons, one practical and one thematic. The thematic takes precedence obviously.

Thematically - in this ending the indoctrinated part of Shepard shot Anderson, not "Shepard".

Practically - bececause then Shepard would be dead.

Thematically - in this ending the indoctrinated part of Shepard shot Anderson, not "Shepard"- so the evidence that Shepard has the same wounds as Anderson, and therefore is Anderson, is bull***p?

No no, you don't get it, basically the only thing that is "real" is what Shep does, so it only makes sense that the wound is real because he actually pulled the trigger. Everything else is in Sheps head.

But Anderson is nonetheless shot, you can't just assume it affects two people in one instance (who are meant to be the same person), and not two in the other just because it fits your theory

[balance5050]

 I can't believe that the keepers would have "corpse processing" functionality. Any way here's Garrus riding one.


 

[Uncle Jo]

SS2Dante wrote...


I did not see that (the thread seemed to move very quickly while I was asleep so for once I haven't read through it all, a lot of it seemed like smalltalk).

Ok, impartiality, cool. And necessary when discussing this

Yeah, the keeper thing really bugged me when I found out, because people are claiming it as a glitch. Now, the second keeper? Passing a little bit through it's legs, that could be a glitch or clipping issues, fine. But the one you can walk through...considering the amount of testing in games, that being a mistake is damn near impossible. Anyone testing that room for five minutes would have spotted that. Something as big and obvious and easily correctable as that is there because they want it there.

1.I take it this means it's called the Crucible in every language then?

2.I'm confused about your explanation for the drum beat though? If it signals the only attempted indoctrination then we have to assume it's thematically linked to indoctrination, but then why do we hear it in the Crucible, which, taken literally, is not thematically linked to indoctrination in any way? (same reasoning as the dream whispers in this scene. It marks a clear link to indoctrination, but if that's the case why are they in your dreams?)

3.Not specifically in response to anything you said, but one of the things that annoys/amuses me about this situation is that IF IT is right then all the tiny little things we find are very likely deliberate, as well as probably lot's of other subtle things we don't find. But, since we don't know if it is, claiming them as evidence really isn't allowed or wise, and of course if IT is wrong then we've managed to string together a bunch of unrelated stuff VERY well

4.You and Epyon can moderate all the enthusiasm here a bit

1. I can say it for sure for the french version (I didn't have the courage to play the german version, because of the sh**** endings and the terriblevoice-casting, but I suppose it's the case) I find it sad, because when I've heard of this double meaning of Crucible (container/trial) in English, I thought about how many people who could
miss this important hint if the IT is proven true, just for the reason they don't speak english.

2. I didn't express myself correctly. I meant that some people point out that if it there was any indoctrination attempt along the game, then it would be the sequence with TIM. It naturally doesn't explain the whole space-magic, but it still could be a point for them.

3. Agree with you if the IT is wrong, it would be a hell of coincidences...

4. Don't wanna be the mood killer I'm just trying to be as much objective as possible...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 24 avril 2012 - 04:41 .

[SubAstris]

Simon_Says wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Dnayew wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Dnayew wrote...

bFootball wrote...

I don't know if someone else has noticed this, but I've just started my third play through and noticed Shepard's wound in the final scene is in the same place Anderson touches Shepard in opening cut scene ("soft around the edges"). Maybe Shepard is subconsciously remembering it.

I just noticed that to when playing through w/ my FemShep character (yes, sadly I have a FemShep character...lol).

Also, I noticed that when you're talking to the little boy  **cough** Harbinger **cough **, you don't just hear a sound similar to the growling noise described in the books, you hear the EXACT SAME SOUND you hear when the Illusive Man overcomes Indoctrination right before he takes his own life.

This was staggering proof to me that the Indoctrination Theory holds weight.

Proof of this?

Here's the scene w/ the Illusive man



Couldn't find a youtube of the kid at the begining; just start a playthrough. It'll take you like 6 minutes.

And where exactly is this "growl" which perfectly mirrors the one after the kid exactly? Exact time?

0:43

Sounds like some sort of "growl", although not the same one

[Simon_Says]

SubAstris wrote...

But Anderson is nonetheless shot, you can't just assume it affects two people in one instance (who are meant to be the same person), and not two in the other just because it fits your theory

I don't know about you but my own dreams aren't that big on internal consistency either.

[Rifneno]

balance5050 wrote...

 I can't believe that the keepers would have "corpse processing" functionality. Any way here's Garrus riding one.


 

...

I am rarely rendered speechless, but this...

[n00bsauce2010]

@Simon_Says- The growl isn't the same. We hear that weird noise during the entire ending sequence. It's not the same as the growl when we're interrupted by Anderson during the time we're talking to the kid (in the beginning).

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...


But Anderson is nonetheless shot, you can't just assume it affects two people in one instance (who are meant to be the same person), and not two in the other just because it fits your theory

Meh, it's hard to explain the psychology. Anderson describes everything that Shepard sees and does, they both raise there arm at the same time, and if you keep Anderson alive you get 1000 EMS which get's you closer to the "Shepard Alive scene.

I don't expect everyone to accept these little nuances that Bioware wrote in. Fact is, once Anderson dies anyway, you start bleeding profusely and pass out.