57139 réponses à ce sujet

[DirtyPhoenix]

bFootball wrote...

I don't know if someone else has noticed this, but I've just started my third play through and noticed Shepard's wound in the final scene is in the same place Anderson touches Shepard in opening cut scene ("soft around the edges"). Maybe Shepard is subconsciously remembering it.

I think thats a pretty good observation! Especially seeing as it comes after chatting with a dying Anderson, also haw anybody been albe to explain that wound? I heard the Marauder Shields explanation, not convinced by it. She was clearly shot in the shoulder. If it was just a botch-up, you'd think they wouldn't explecitly show the wound in the stomach. Shep touched the wound and the camera zoomed on her hand and you think thats a botched up shoulder wound? -____- When someone makes a mistake he doesn't go out of his way to expose it, unless there's some other motive..

[SubAstris]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

bFootball wrote...

I don't know if someone else has noticed this, but I've just started my third play through and noticed Shepard's wound in the final scene is in the same place Anderson touches Shepard in opening cut scene ("soft around the edges"). Maybe Shepard is subconsciously remembering it.

If Shepard had touched something unique, such as his back, knee or foot both times then you might have something, but that just seems to be twisting the evidence for the theory. There is little evidence for anything here

Cool. Then why are you here if you're not making any contributive argument?

Felt I needed to explain why the evidence is far from adequate, didn't realise this was only for pro-ITers and not a forum for free discussion

It doesn't seem to me like you're explaining why the evidence is far from adequate. You're merely just stating your opinion as so without explaining why you think that. No offense to you and your opinion.

Maybe you don't understand the point of this forum. It is to discuss the indoctrination theory. Supporter or  not, you should not just simply say "It is wrong" and these things should not be considered evidence. Why do you think those things should be disregarded as evidence? Explain that and then you'll look less like a troll and more like a contributer to the overall discussion. And people of both sides will gawk at the opportunity to discuss your counter-arguments.

My argument is that just because Shepard touches a similar region of the body doesn't mean that the two things are linked. It is a bit like saying that because two common words, such as "body" are used in two different extracts from some texts you have, therefore they are part of the same text. The likelihood that there is meant to be a connection is considerably lower than if, for example, two incredibly rare words were used in the extracts, such as "expelliarmus"; there would be an increased likelihood that such words are part of the same overall text, if you see my analogy

Oh so it is not curious at all that the camera focuses specifcially on Shepard touching his stomach and then looking down to find blood on it (again with camera focus and all) when his wound prior to that from Marauder Shields was in the shoulder, but he only moments before was forced to shoot someone in almost the exact spot he is now bleeding from as the camera indicates.

Can you explain that camera focus if it was not something we should notice, that he is clucthing his side in that exact spot and bleeding from it from all indications. Why would they show that when he received no wound to taht area prior to the scene?

That's not to say that he hasn't been injured before. If you noticed he is leaning to his left hand side, a clear indication that this is his weakest side and very likely an injury he sustained during the Harbinger blast (since he didn't have it before).

I contend the view that Anderson was shot the same side as Shepard (I would like to explain but need to go)

[Unschuld]

bFootball wrote...

I don't know if someone else has noticed this, but I've just started my third play through and noticed Shepard's wound in the final scene is in the same place Anderson touches Shepard in opening cut scene ("soft around the edges"). Maybe Shepard is subconsciously remembering it.

I think that might be reaching, but a definite maybe perhaps?

Modifié par Unschuld, 24 avril 2012 - 05:05 .

[SS2Dante]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

My argument is that just because Shepard touches a similar region of the body doesn't mean that the two things are linked. It is a bit like saying that because two common words, such as "body" are used in two different extracts from some texts you have, therefore they are part of the same text. The likelihood that there is meant to be a connection is considerably lower than if, for example, two incredibly rare words were used in the extracts, such as "expelliarmus"; there would be an increased likelihood that such words are part of the same overall text, if you see my analogy

It's actually not like your analogy at all. Shepard touches 3 part of his body during the end.

1st. He touches his shoulder, where Marauder Shields shot him.

2nd. He touches his temple in response to TIM's mind control/indoctrination attempt, Like Shep has a headache (another symptom of indoctrination)

3rd. He clutches his abdomen in response to Andersons death.

True, but it still shows a far from conclusive link from Shepard touching himself at the beginning to the end

This is why I think we need a new phrase instead of "evidence" and "proof". Since the very premise of this discussion precludes the notion of both

I think (and almost everyone I've talked to here will agree) that none of us hold up ANY of the "evidence" we've gathered as individually strong or idicative(sp) of anything. When we say evidence I think what we mean is "another oddity that, when taken with the many other oddities that we have found, all of which sync up rather neatly, gives credence to the notion of IT".

...or something like that

[SS2Dante]

Unschuld wrote...

bFootball wrote...

I don't know if someone else has noticed this, but I've just started my third play through and noticed Shepard's wound in the final scene is in the same place Anderson touches Shepard in opening cut scene ("soft around the edges"). Maybe Shepard is subconsciously remembering it.

I think that might be reaching, but a definite maybe perhaps?

It's very quantum. Two simultaneous states, depending on a variable we can't check

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

My argument is that just because Shepard touches a similar region of the body doesn't mean that the two things are linked. It is a bit like saying that because two common words, such as "body" are used in two different extracts from some texts you have, therefore they are part of the same text. The likelihood that there is meant to be a connection is considerably lower than if, for example, two incredibly rare words were used in the extracts, such as "expelliarmus"; there would be an increased likelihood that such words are part of the same overall text, if you see my analogy

It's actually not like your analogy at all. Shepard touches 3 part of his body during the end.

1st. He touches his shoulder, where Marauder Shields shot him.

2nd. He touches his temple in response to TIM's mind control/indoctrination attempt, Like Shep has a headache (another symptom of indoctrination)

3rd. He clutches his abdomen in response to Andersons death.

True, but it still shows a far from conclusive link from Shepard touching himself at the beginning to the end

That's weak evidence, I admit, but there might be some symbolism there.

Remember the VERY first scene? It looks like the Normandy flying like a BAMF... Oh wait, it's just that kid holding the ship in a way that made it LOOK like it was the real deal, it was a faux reality.

Now if THAT^ doesn't have greater symbolic meaning then call me a monkeys uncle.

Modifié par balance5050, 24 avril 2012 - 05:10 .

[Simon_Says]

Unschuld wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

Unschuld wrote...
 I actually have a question, for the sake of discussion, that may or may not have been discussed earlier but I can't recall. Why, if the Illusive man is truly indoctrinated, do the reapers attack the Sanctuary facility? If he were indoctrinated and not trying to indoctrinate, why would the reapers stop him from creating another army of husks? Why then would this conflict suddenly shift in the citadel control room to TIM being (mostly) under the control of the reapers?

To me it seems like TIM in the control room is a little less "TIM", rather than a facet of Shepard's psyche.

Tim discovered Space Magic and the Reapers were afraid he'd become an enchanter?

Mind=Blown.

Now I have images of yahg in bunny hats tearing the reaper's sheisse up.

[Unschuld]

What I find funny is that so many are quick to dismiss the possibility of symbolism in these games as if it couldn't exist. To me that's just as stupefying as those that don tinfoil hats and claim to see symbolism in everything, even where none exists.

[SS2Dante]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

My argument is that just because Shepard touches a similar region of the body doesn't mean that the two things are linked. It is a bit like saying that because two common words, such as "body" are used in two different extracts from some texts you have, therefore they are part of the same text. The likelihood that there is meant to be a connection is considerably lower than if, for example, two incredibly rare words were used in the extracts, such as "expelliarmus"; there would be an increased likelihood that such words are part of the same overall text, if you see my analogy

It's actually not like your analogy at all. Shepard touches 3 part of his body during the end.

1st. He touches his shoulder, where Marauder Shields shot him.

2nd. He touches his temple in response to TIM's mind control/indoctrination attempt, Like Shep has a headache (another symptom of indoctrination)

3rd. He clutches his abdomen in response to Andersons death.

True, but it still shows a far from conclusive link from Shepard touching himself at the beginning to the end

That's weak evidence, I admit, but there might be some symbolism there.

Remember the VERY first scene? It looks like the Normandy flying like a BAMF... Oh wait, it's just that kid holding the ship in a way that made it LOOK like it was the real deal, it was a faux reality.

Now if THAT^ doesn't have greater symbolic meaning then call me a monkeys uncle.

Huh. I'd never considered that.

[Unschuld]

Simon_Says wrote...
Now I have images of yahg in bunny hats tearing the reaper's sheisse up.

The reapers have some strange fetishes.

[Simon_Says]

balance5050 wrote...

Remember the VERY first scene? It looks like the Normandy flying like a BAMF... Oh wait, it's just that kid holding the ship in a way that made it LOOK like it was the real deal, it was a faux reality.

Now if THAT^ doesn't have greater symbolic meaning then call me a monkeys uncle.

Alternatively/additonally it's symbolic of the Catalyst playing organics for its own ends.

[MaximizedAction]

Unschuld wrote...

bFootball wrote...

I don't know if someone else has noticed this, but I've just started my third play through and noticed Shepard's wound in the final scene is in the same place Anderson touches Shepard in opening cut scene ("soft around the edges"). Maybe Shepard is subconsciously remembering it.

I think that might be reaching, but a definite maybe perhaps?

Hmmm, but why would that place would be so special? If so, then only to us as players, because Shep meeting Anderson after 6 months (?) isn't the most memorable scene Shepard should have of Anderson.
At least, this is my idea..

But good catch!

[Dnayew]

Every time such Speculations happen on this board, Marauder Shields gets his wings.

[balance5050]

SS2Dante wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

That's weak evidence, I admit, but there might be some symbolism there.

Remember the VERY first scene? It looks like the Normandy flying like a BAMF... Oh wait, it's just that kid holding the ship in a way that made it LOOK like it was the real deal, it was a faux reality.

Now if THAT^ doesn't have greater symbolic meaning then call me a monkeys uncle.

Huh. I'd never considered that.

If we finally get that IT ending we all want, this game will be a nice package that comes around full circle from the first scene to the last.

Here's another point, the reaper on Rannoch says "Harbinger speaks of you". What could he possibly be saying besides "I'm gonna have to indoctrinate this fool"

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

My argument is that just because Shepard touches a similar region of the body doesn't mean that the two things are linked. It is a bit like saying that because two common words, such as "body" are used in two different extracts from some texts you have, therefore they are part of the same text. The likelihood that there is meant to be a connection is considerably lower than if, for example, two incredibly rare words were used in the extracts, such as "expelliarmus"; there would be an increased likelihood that such words are part of the same overall text, if you see my analogy

It's actually not like your analogy at all. Shepard touches 3 part of his body during the end.

1st. He touches his shoulder, where Marauder Shields shot him.

2nd. He touches his temple in response to TIM's mind control/indoctrination attempt, Like Shep has a headache (another symptom of indoctrination)

3rd. He clutches his abdomen in response to Andersons death.

True, but it still shows a far from conclusive link from Shepard touching himself at the beginning to the end

That's weak evidence, I admit, but there might be some symbolism there.

Remember the VERY first scene? It looks like the Normandy flying like a BAMF... Oh wait, it's just that kid holding the ship in a way that made it LOOK like it was the real deal, it was a faux reality.

Now if THAT^ doesn't have greater symbolic meaning then call me a monkeys uncle.

I had never thought of it that way, having seen and played through the beginning many times. Still interesting I must admit. I always thought that that bit was to show the carefree nature of life before the Reaper attacks, boy playing with danger but not affected by it, contrast with later when it becomes reailty. I think it is a cool cinematic technique on its own tbh

[Apollo-XL5]

I think this has been noticed before, but in control and synthesis endings , shepard drops his gun on the floor before grabing machine/jumping off ledge.
If this is a dream, could the gun represent his free will. Because in choosing green or blue shepard is basically surrendering his free will and accepting what the starchild/Harbinger is saying as truth, which is why his eyes go indoctrination blue as he disintegrates.

[llbountyhunter]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

I think this has been noticed before, but in control and synthesis endings , shepard drops his gun on the floor before grabing machine/jumping off ledge.
If this is a dream, could the gun represent his free will. Because in choosing green or blue shepard is basically surrendering his free will and accepting what the starchild/Harbinger is saying as truth, which is why his eyes go indoctrination blue as he disintegrates.

I like this one. didnt notice he dropped his gun.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 24 avril 2012 - 05:26 .

[Apollo-XL5]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

My argument is that just because Shepard touches a similar region of the body doesn't mean that the two things are linked. It is a bit like saying that because two common words, such as "body" are used in two different extracts from some texts you have, therefore they are part of the same text. The likelihood that there is meant to be a connection is considerably lower than if, for example, two incredibly rare words were used in the extracts, such as "expelliarmus"; there would be an increased likelihood that such words are part of the same overall text, if you see my analogy

It's actually not like your analogy at all. Shepard touches 3 part of his body during the end.

1st. He touches his shoulder, where Marauder Shields shot him.

2nd. He touches his temple in response to TIM's mind control/indoctrination attempt, Like Shep has a headache (another symptom of indoctrination)

3rd. He clutches his abdomen in response to Andersons death.

True, but it still shows a far from conclusive link from Shepard touching himself at the beginning to the end

That's weak evidence, I admit, but there might be some symbolism there.

Remember the VERY first scene? It looks like the Normandy flying like a BAMF... Oh wait, it's just that kid holding the ship in a way that made it LOOK like it was the real deal, it was a faux reality.

Now if THAT^ doesn't have greater symbolic meaning then call me a monkeys uncle.

I had never thought of it that way, having seen and played through the beginning many times. Still interesting I must admit. I always thought that that bit was to show the carefree nature of life before the Reaper attacks, boy playing with danger but not affected by it, contrast with later when it becomes reailty. I think it is a cool cinematic technique on its own tbh

Head = control
shoulder wound = destroy
abdomon (partly synthetic) = synthsis

[Apollo-XL5]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

I think this has been noticed before, but in control and synthesis endings , shepard drops his gun on the floor before grabing machine/jumping off ledge.
If this is a dream, could the gun represent his free will. Because in choosing green or blue shepard is basically surrendering his free will and accepting what the starchild/Harbinger is saying as truth, which is why his eyes go indoctrination blue as he disintegrates.

I like this one. didnt notice he dropped his gun.

Plus the gun has unlimited ammo and unless shepard is friends with solid snake, I doubt that he has his bandana on him.

[balance5050]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

I think this has been noticed before, but in control and synthesis endings , shepard drops his gun on the floor before grabing machine/jumping off ledge.
If this is a dream, could the gun represent his free will. Because in choosing green or blue shepard is basically surrendering his free will and accepting what the starchild/Harbinger is saying as truth, which is why his eyes go indoctrination blue as he disintegrates.

In the Geth mission, Legion tells Shepard that he gave him a gun because "it's a familiar tool" for Shepard, He is seen picking up this guntwice in the ending and it has more symbolic meaning than any other gun because it's the same gun that Mording gave Shep in ME2. Also the same gun that Anderson has before the conduit run.

Him dropping the gun feels like him dropping his defenses, or a part of himself, the last part of himself.

Modifié par balance5050, 24 avril 2012 - 05:28 .

[SubAstris]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

My argument is that just because Shepard touches a similar region of the body doesn't mean that the two things are linked. It is a bit like saying that because two common words, such as "body" are used in two different extracts from some texts you have, therefore they are part of the same text. The likelihood that there is meant to be a connection is considerably lower than if, for example, two incredibly rare words were used in the extracts, such as "expelliarmus"; there would be an increased likelihood that such words are part of the same overall text, if you see my analogy

It's actually not like your analogy at all. Shepard touches 3 part of his body during the end.

1st. He touches his shoulder, where Marauder Shields shot him.

2nd. He touches his temple in response to TIM's mind control/indoctrination attempt, Like Shep has a headache (another symptom of indoctrination)

3rd. He clutches his abdomen in response to Andersons death.

True, but it still shows a far from conclusive link from Shepard touching himself at the beginning to the end

That's weak evidence, I admit, but there might be some symbolism there.

Remember the VERY first scene? It looks like the Normandy flying like a BAMF... Oh wait, it's just that kid holding the ship in a way that made it LOOK like it was the real deal, it was a faux reality.

Now if THAT^ doesn't have greater symbolic meaning then call me a monkeys uncle.

I had never thought of it that way, having seen and played through the beginning many times. Still interesting I must admit. I always thought that that bit was to show the carefree nature of life before the Reaper attacks, boy playing with danger but not affected by it, contrast with later when it becomes reailty. I think it is a cool cinematic technique on its own tbh

Head = control
shoulder wound = destroy
abdomon (partly synthetic) = synthsis

How did you get to that conclusion? What would that even mean? I could say that the bit before the beam before Harbinger's beam is control, the bit in the Citadel with TIM and Anderson is destroy, and the part with the Catalyst is synthesis. That has as much evidence as what you are proposing

[llbountyhunter]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

I think this has been noticed before, but in control and synthesis endings , shepard drops his gun on the floor before grabing machine/jumping off ledge.
If this is a dream, could the gun represent his free will. Because in choosing green or blue shepard is basically surrendering his free will and accepting what the starchild/Harbinger is saying as truth, which is why his eyes go indoctrination blue as he disintegrates.

I like this one. didnt notice he dropped his gun.

Plus the gun has unlimited ammo and unless shepard is friends with solid snake, I doubt that he has his bandana on him.

could it be relatable to the geth consensus mission where his weapon (this time his free will) is represented by a gun?

it also help the "magical gun" thingy because its the only other gun you have with unlimited ammo- the other was in the consensus mission


edit: damnit. balance beat me to it!

oh well, you know what they say "great minds think alike".....lol 

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 24 avril 2012 - 05:29 .

[Apollo-XL5]

balance5050 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

I think this has been noticed before, but in control and synthesis endings , shepard drops his gun on the floor before grabing machine/jumping off ledge.
If this is a dream, could the gun represent his free will. Because in choosing green or blue shepard is basically surrendering his free will and accepting what the starchild/Harbinger is saying as truth, which is why his eyes go indoctrination blue as he disintegrates.

In the Geth mission, Legion tells Shepard that he gave him a gun because "it's a familiar tool" for Shepard, He is seen picking up this guntwice in the ending and it has more symbolic meaning than any other gun because it's the same gun that Mording gave Shep in ME2.

Him dropping the gun feels like him dropping his defenses, or a part of himself, the last part of himself.

yeah like shepard is resigning himslef to the fate that the reapers have for him.  its bwcause they suger coated control and synthesis choices as (shep dies but everyone lives) but the destroy ending (the one he spent three games fighting for) is made to be the worest choice you can think of.

[Simon_Says]

I thought it was obvious that, from a face value standpoint, the gun was just one of those few that hadn't been converted to thermal clip tech.

Yeah, remember those? God I miss them.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 24 avril 2012 - 05:30 .

[Apollo-XL5]

SubAstris wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

My argument is that just because Shepard touches a similar region of the body doesn't mean that the two things are linked. It is a bit like saying that because two common words, such as "body" are used in two different extracts from some texts you have, therefore they are part of the same text. The likelihood that there is meant to be a connection is considerably lower than if, for example, two incredibly rare words were used in the extracts, such as "expelliarmus"; there would be an increased likelihood that such words are part of the same overall text, if you see my analogy

It's actually not like your analogy at all. Shepard touches 3 part of his body during the end.

1st. He touches his shoulder, where Marauder Shields shot him.

2nd. He touches his temple in response to TIM's mind control/indoctrination attempt, Like Shep has a headache (another symptom of indoctrination)

3rd. He clutches his abdomen in response to Andersons death.

True, but it still shows a far from conclusive link from Shepard touching himself at the beginning to the end

That's weak evidence, I admit, but there might be some symbolism there.

Remember the VERY first scene? It looks like the Normandy flying like a BAMF... Oh wait, it's just that kid holding the ship in a way that made it LOOK like it was the real deal, it was a faux reality.

Now if THAT^ doesn't have greater symbolic meaning then call me a monkeys uncle.

I had never thought of it that way, having seen and played through the beginning many times. Still interesting I must admit. I always thought that that bit was to show the carefree nature of life before the Reaper attacks, boy playing with danger but not affected by it, contrast with later when it becomes reailty. I think it is a cool cinematic technique on its own tbh

Head = control
shoulder wound = destroy
abdomon (partly synthetic) = synthsis

How did you get to that conclusion? What would that even mean? I could say that the bit before the beam before Harbinger's beam is control, the bit in the Citadel with TIM and Anderson is destroy, and the part with the Catalyst is synthesis. That has as much evidence as what you are proposing

i'm just throwing ideas out there mate.