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[balance5050]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

I think this has been noticed before, but in control and synthesis endings , shepard drops his gun on the floor before grabing machine/jumping off ledge.
If this is a dream, could the gun represent his free will. Because in choosing green or blue shepard is basically surrendering his free will and accepting what the starchild/Harbinger is saying as truth, which is why his eyes go indoctrination blue as he disintegrates.

I like this one. didnt notice he dropped his gun.

Plus the gun has unlimited ammo and unless shepard is friends with solid snake, I doubt that he has his bandana on him.

could it be relatable to the geth consensus mission where his weapon (this time his free will) is represented by a gun?

it also help the "magical gun" thingy because its the only other gun you have with unlimited ammo- the other was in the consensus mission

That's what I think, almost every question about the ending is answered in another part of the game. Remember how you got killed 120001 times on Rannoch by a reaper laser, what makes Harby's laser different?

[llbountyhunter]

Simon_Says wrote...

I thought it was obvious that, from a face value standpoint, the gun was just one of those few that hadn't been converted to thermal clip tech.

Yeah, remember those? God I miss them.

but why does it have the optional reload? shouldnt that funtion be disabled? 

[balance5050]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

i'm just throwing ideas out there mate.

This is the thread to do it in too. The bigger the net, the more fish you catch.

[Apollo-XL5]

Simon_Says wrote...

I thought it was obvious that, from a face value standpoint, the gun was just one of those few that hadn't been converted to thermal clip tech.

Yeah, remember those? God I miss them.

All guns had been converted to thermal clip by the end of mass effect 3 (which is why it is so easy to find ammo in the game). 

[Simon_Says]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

I thought it was obvious that, from a face value standpoint, the gun was just one of those few that hadn't been converted to thermal clip tech.

Yeah, remember those? God I miss them.

but why does it have the optional reload? shouldnt that funtion be disabled?

Err... um... intimidation?

[Apollo-XL5]

Its funny how bioware still haven't denied or confirmed it, plus in their tweets they actually hint it ever now and then I hear.

[SubAstris]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

My argument is that just because Shepard touches a similar region of the body doesn't mean that the two things are linked. It is a bit like saying that because two common words, such as "body" are used in two different extracts from some texts you have, therefore they are part of the same text. The likelihood that there is meant to be a connection is considerably lower than if, for example, two incredibly rare words were used in the extracts, such as "expelliarmus"; there would be an increased likelihood that such words are part of the same overall text, if you see my analogy

It's actually not like your analogy at all. Shepard touches 3 part of his body during the end.

1st. He touches his shoulder, where Marauder Shields shot him.

2nd. He touches his temple in response to TIM's mind control/indoctrination attempt, Like Shep has a headache (another symptom of indoctrination)

3rd. He clutches his abdomen in response to Andersons death.

True, but it still shows a far from conclusive link from Shepard touching himself at the beginning to the end

That's weak evidence, I admit, but there might be some symbolism there.

Remember the VERY first scene? It looks like the Normandy flying like a BAMF... Oh wait, it's just that kid holding the ship in a way that made it LOOK like it was the real deal, it was a faux reality.

Now if THAT^ doesn't have greater symbolic meaning then call me a monkeys uncle.

I had never thought of it that way, having seen and played through the beginning many times. Still interesting I must admit. I always thought that that bit was to show the carefree nature of life before the Reaper attacks, boy playing with danger but not affected by it, contrast with later when it becomes reailty. I think it is a cool cinematic technique on its own tbh

Head = control
shoulder wound = destroy
abdomon (partly synthetic) = synthsis

How did you get to that conclusion? What would that even mean? I could say that the bit before the beam before Harbinger's beam is control, the bit in the Citadel with TIM and Anderson is destroy, and the part with the Catalyst is synthesis. That has as much evidence as what you are proposing

i'm just throwing ideas out there mate.

And I am throwing mine back

[MaximizedAction]

balance5050 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

I think this has been noticed before, but in control and synthesis endings , shepard drops his gun on the floor before grabing machine/jumping off ledge.
If this is a dream, could the gun represent his free will. Because in choosing green or blue shepard is basically surrendering his free will and accepting what the starchild/Harbinger is saying as truth, which is why his eyes go indoctrination blue as he disintegrates.

In the Geth mission, Legion tells Shepard that he gave him a gun because "it's a familiar tool" for Shepard, He is seen picking up this guntwice in the ending and it has more symbolic meaning than any other gun because it's the same gun that Mording gave Shep in ME2. Also the same gun that Anderson has before the conduit run.

Him dropping the gun feels like him dropping his defenses, or a part of himself, the last part of himself.

I noticed Shep using this gun when he frees the Rachni queen, although I didn't equip her with it.
Also, some complains from players were about Shep using this particular gun in some arbitrary situations instead of his own...

Now, most said it was poor game programming, but isn't Bioware using pretty much the same engine throughout all three games and only adds gimmics here and there?
So why does the game engine suddenly fail so amateurishly and Shep is pulling a gun he doesn't even have. Doesn't something so obvious get notices during alpha, beta testphases?

TL;DR: Is Shep randomly using a gun he doesn't have (the same one) really just a bug or is intended?

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

i'm just throwing ideas out there mate.

And I am throwing mine back

[Apollo-XL5]

SubAstris wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

My argument is that just because Shepard touches a similar region of the body doesn't mean that the two things are linked. It is a bit like saying that because two common words, such as "body" are used in two different extracts from some texts you have, therefore they are part of the same text. The likelihood that there is meant to be a connection is considerably lower than if, for example, two incredibly rare words were used in the extracts, such as "expelliarmus"; there would be an increased likelihood that such words are part of the same overall text, if you see my analogy

It's actually not like your analogy at all. Shepard touches 3 part of his body during the end.

1st. He touches his shoulder, where Marauder Shields shot him.

2nd. He touches his temple in response to TIM's mind control/indoctrination attempt, Like Shep has a headache (another symptom of indoctrination)

3rd. He clutches his abdomen in response to Andersons death.

True, but it still shows a far from conclusive link from Shepard touching himself at the beginning to the end

That's weak evidence, I admit, but there might be some symbolism there.

Remember the VERY first scene? It looks like the Normandy flying like a BAMF... Oh wait, it's just that kid holding the ship in a way that made it LOOK like it was the real deal, it was a faux reality.

Now if THAT^ doesn't have greater symbolic meaning then call me a monkeys uncle.

I had never thought of it that way, having seen and played through the beginning many times. Still interesting I must admit. I always thought that that bit was to show the carefree nature of life before the Reaper attacks, boy playing with danger but not affected by it, contrast with later when it becomes reailty. I think it is a cool cinematic technique on its own tbh

Head = control
shoulder wound = destroy
abdomon (partly synthetic) = synthsis

How did you get to that conclusion? What would that even mean? I could say that the bit before the beam before Harbinger's beam is control, the bit in the Citadel with TIM and Anderson is destroy, and the part with the Catalyst is synthesis. That has as much evidence as what you are proposing

i'm just throwing ideas out there mate.

And I am throwing mine back

I just found it interesting that some one could try to relate shep touching parts of himself (got to be careful where this goes) and connects it to the threee choices.

[Simon_Says]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

I thought it was obvious that, from a face value standpoint, the gun was just one of those few that hadn't been converted to thermal clip tech.

Yeah, remember those? God I miss them.

All guns had been converted to thermal clip by the end of mass effect 3 (which is why it is so easy to find ammo in the game). 

All guns, the galaxy over, in three years?

I for one can imagine plenty of uses for weapons that don't need clips. And on an apocalyptic Earth, I'd totally be behind having a weapon that doesn't require solid logistics lines to remain functional. (see: ME3 multiplayer and the convenient crates.)

[SubAstris]

[/quote]

That's what I think, almost every question about the ending is answered in another part of the game. Remember how you got killed 120001 times on Rannoch by a reaper laser, what makes Harby's laser different?

[/quote]

Possibly because it is the end of the game, can you imagine how annoyed people would be, even more than now, if Shepard just died after being hit by Harbinger's beam without even putting up a fight against him and/or seeing off the Reaper threat?

[balance5050]

Simon_Says wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

I thought it was obvious that, from a face value standpoint, the gun was just one of those few that hadn't been converted to thermal clip tech.

Yeah, remember those? God I miss them.

All guns had been converted to thermal clip by the end of mass effect 3 (which is why it is so easy to find ammo in the game). 

All guns, the galaxy over, in three years?

I for one can imagine plenty of uses for weapons that don't need clips. And on an apocalyptic Earth, I'd totally be behind having a weapon that doesn't require solid logistics lines to remain functional. (see: ME3 multiplayer and the convenient crates.)

The point is that the guns from ME1 didn't reload, they only cooled down. This gun reloads, so it is a modern model.

[Rifneno]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

I think this has been noticed before, but in control and synthesis endings , shepard drops his gun on the floor before grabing machine/jumping off ledge.
If this is a dream, could the gun represent his free will. Because in choosing green or blue shepard is basically surrendering his free will and accepting what the starchild/Harbinger is saying as truth, which is why his eyes go indoctrination blue as he disintegrates.

I like this one. didnt notice he dropped his gun.

Plus the gun has unlimited ammo and unless shepard is friends with solid snake, I doubt that he has his bandana on him.

"I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire seven hundred and eighty-four shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a carnifex hand cannon, the most powerful handgun in the galaxy, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"

[arc_gabriel_]

[/quote]

Head = control
shoulder wound = destroy
abdomon (partly synthetic) = synthsis


[/quote]

...
How did you get to that conclusion? What would that even mean? I could say that the bit before the beam before Harbinger's beam is control, the bit in the Citadel with TIM and Anderson is destroy, and the part with the Catalyst is synthesis. That has as much evidence as what you are proposing

[/quote]

i'm just throwing ideas out there mate.

[/quote]

And I am throwing mine back

[/quote]

 ...  made my day.

[Simon_Says]

MaximizedAction wrote...

I noticed Shep using this gun when he frees the Rachni queen, although I didn't equip her with it.
Also, some complains from players were about Shep using this particular gun in some arbitrary situations instead of his own...

Now, most said it was poor game programming, but isn't Bioware using pretty much the same engine throughout all three games and only adds gimmics here and there?
So why does the game engine suddenly fail so amateurishly and Shep is pulling a gun he doesn't even have. Doesn't something so obvious get notices during alpha, beta testphases?

TL;DR: Is Shep randomly using a gun he doesn't have (the same one) really just a bug or is intended?

Well in the Mordin confrontation it's implied that it was the very same carnifex that Mordin gave Shepard so... loldunno.

[SS2Dante]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

My argument is that just because Shepard touches a similar region of the body doesn't mean that the two things are linked. It is a bit like saying that because two common words, such as "body" are used in two different extracts from some texts you have, therefore they are part of the same text. The likelihood that there is meant to be a connection is considerably lower than if, for example, two incredibly rare words were used in the extracts, such as "expelliarmus"; there would be an increased likelihood that such words are part of the same overall text, if you see my analogy

It's actually not like your analogy at all. Shepard touches 3 part of his body during the end.

1st. He touches his shoulder, where Marauder Shields shot him.

2nd. He touches his temple in response to TIM's mind control/indoctrination attempt, Like Shep has a headache (another symptom of indoctrination)

3rd. He clutches his abdomen in response to Andersons death.

True, but it still shows a far from conclusive link from Shepard touching himself at the beginning to the end

That's weak evidence, I admit, but there might be some symbolism there.

Remember the VERY first scene? It looks like the Normandy flying like a BAMF... Oh wait, it's just that kid holding the ship in a way that made it LOOK like it was the real deal, it was a faux reality.

Now if THAT^ doesn't have greater symbolic meaning then call me a monkeys uncle.

I had never thought of it that way, having seen and played through the beginning many times. Still interesting I must admit. I always thought that that bit was to show the carefree nature of life before the Reaper attacks, boy playing with danger but not affected by it, contrast with later when it becomes reailty. I think it is a cool cinematic technique on its own tbh

Head = control
shoulder wound = destroy
abdomon (partly synthetic) = synthsis

How did you get to that conclusion? What would that even mean? I could say that the bit before the beam before Harbinger's beam is control, the bit in the Citadel with TIM and Anderson is destroy, and the part with the Catalyst is synthesis. That has as much evidence as what you are proposing

i'm just throwing ideas out there mate.

And I am throwing mine back

I just found it interesting that some one could try to relate shep touching parts of himself (got to be careful where this goes) and connects it to the threee choices.

That's some pretty obscure symbolism, though. From what we've seen most of the symbolism in IT has been of the "I can't believe they got away with that" quality. it just seems like too much of a leap.

[Apollo-XL5]

Simon_Says wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

I thought it was obvious that, from a face value standpoint, the gun was just one of those few that hadn't been converted to thermal clip tech.

Yeah, remember those? God I miss them.

All guns had been converted to thermal clip by the end of mass effect 3 (which is why it is so easy to find ammo in the game). 

All guns, the galaxy over, in three years?

I for one can imagine plenty of uses for weapons that don't need clips. And on an apocalyptic Earth, I'd totally be behind having a weapon that doesn't require solid logistics lines to remain functional. (see: ME3 multiplayer and the convenient crates.)

All guns used by  alliance military would use the most up to date tech.  So unless shep is like corpral Hicks in Aliens and carrys a outdated shotgun "for close encounters" I highly doubt that any alliance soldier would carry outdate weaponry.

[byne]

balance5050 wrote...

In the Geth mission, Legion tells Shepard that he gave him a gun because "it's a familiar tool" for Shepard, He is seen picking up this guntwice in the ending and it has more symbolic meaning than any other gun because it's the same gun that Mording gave Shep in ME2. Also the same gun that Anderson has before the conduit run.

Him dropping the gun feels like him dropping his defenses, or a part of himself, the last part of himself.

The weirdest part about that is how when TIM takes the gun from Anderson, he takes a Predator, not a Carnifex. Unless Anderson changed guns on the way down (and to a less powerful model, no less), it really doesnt make sense, unless you consider that Shep is just piecing this together from his memories, so it'd make sense for TIM to use a Predator to kill himself.

Saren used a Predator to shoot himself, and even Fai Dan, the leader of the Feros colony, used one to break the Thorian's control.

The other times where we see people who are not being controlled by an outside force kill themselves, they dont use Predators.

Jacob's dad uses a Carnifex, Samara uses a Phalanx, Admiral Raan uses a Shuriken, and Tali jumps off a freakin cliff.

A Predator could be liked to breaking free of control to Shepard.


Also, I could just be thinking way too much about it.

[Simon_Says]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

I thought it was obvious that, from a face value standpoint, the gun was just one of those few that hadn't been converted to thermal clip tech.

Yeah, remember those? God I miss them.

All guns had been converted to thermal clip by the end of mass effect 3 (which is why it is so easy to find ammo in the game). 

All guns, the galaxy over, in three years?

I for one can imagine plenty of uses for weapons that don't need clips. And on an apocalyptic Earth, I'd totally be behind having a weapon that doesn't require solid logistics lines to remain functional. (see: ME3 multiplayer and the convenient crates.)

All guns used by  alliance military would use the most up to date tech.  So unless shep is like corpral Hicks in Aliens and carrys a outdated shotgun "for close encounters" I highly doubt that any alliance soldier would carry outdate weaponry.

Still doesn't answer where all the old guns went. Or why they were abandoned everywhere, when I just said that there are good reasons for keeping pre-clip guns.

Earth is a grey hellhole. Industry has been blasted to bits. The resistance is scraping by for survival. Now, if I had to survive for an indeterminate amount of time with limited access to resources, I'm going to grab the gun that doesn't require a clip every few dozen rounds. I'll want the one that can sing from now till next week before running dry, even if it doesn't hit as hard.

In a siege, the point is not to hit harder than your opponent, it's to outlast them. And how advanced a piece of tech is has no direct bearing on how good it will be in any particular situation.

-edit- More reasons to keep pre-clip guns around.

• Civilian sector.
• Law enforcement.
• Training/practice.
• Sentiment (see: Jessie)
• Exploration missions (no clips to haul around = more payload)

Modifié par Simon_Says, 24 avril 2012 - 06:04 .

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

In the Geth mission, Legion tells Shepard that he gave him a gun because "it's a familiar tool" for Shepard, He is seen picking up this guntwice in the ending and it has more symbolic meaning than any other gun because it's the same gun that Mording gave Shep in ME2. Also the same gun that Anderson has before the conduit run.

Him dropping the gun feels like him dropping his defenses, or a part of himself, the last part of himself.

The weirdest part about that is how when TIM takes the gun from Anderson, he takes a Predator, not a Carnifex. Unless Anderson changed guns on the way down (and to a less powerful model, no less), it really doesnt make sense, unless you consider that Shep is just piecing this together from his memories, so it'd make sense for TIM to use a Predator to kill himself.

Saren used a Predator to shoot himself, and even Fai Dan, the leader of the Feros colony, used one to break the Thorian's control.

The other times where we see people who are not being controlled by an outside force kill themselves, they dont use Predators.

Jacob's dad uses a Carnifex, Samara uses a Phalanx, Admiral Raan uses a Shuriken, and Tali jumps off a freakin cliff.

A Predator could be liked to breaking free of control to Shepard.


Also, I could just be thinking way too much about it.

Maybe, but these are still good points.  In particular that part about Anderson switching guns seems weird.

[byne]

Simon_Says wrote...


Still doesn't answer where all the old guns went. Or why they were abandoned everywhere, when I just said that there are good reasons for keeping pre-clip guns.

Earth is a grey hellhole. Industry has been blasted to bits. The resistance is scraping by for survival. Now, if I had to survive for an indeterminate amount of time with limited access to resources, I'm going to grab the gun that doesn't require a clip every few dozen rounds. I'll want the one that can sing from now till next week before running dry, even if it doesn't hit as hard.

How advanced a piece of tech is has no direct bearing on how good it will be in any particular situation.

Despite the fact that Bioware gave us a somewhat half-assed explanation of why we use thermal clips now instead of guns with infinite ammo, I think they really just retconned the entire idea of limitless ammo weapons away.

I mean, hell, Jacob's dad had been stranded on that planet for 10 years, and his men still used thermal clips. You could try justifying that by saying its just for gameplay purposes to make sure you dont run out of ammo, but Jacob's dad seems familiar with the thermal clip idea, since when you leave him the gun to commit suicide, he says something about how the thermal clip doesnt have enough charges to defend himself from his men.

[Simon_Says]

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

Still doesn't answer where all the old guns went. Or why they were abandoned everywhere, when I just said that there are good reasons for keeping pre-clip guns.

Earth is a grey hellhole. Industry has been blasted to bits. The resistance is scraping by for survival. Now, if I had to survive for an indeterminate amount of time with limited access to resources, I'm going to grab the gun that doesn't require a clip every few dozen rounds. I'll want the one that can sing from now till next week before running dry, even if it doesn't hit as hard.

How advanced a piece of tech is has no direct bearing on how good it will be in any particular situation.

Despite the fact that Bioware gave us a somewhat half-assed explanation of why we use thermal clips now instead of guns with infinite ammo, I think they really just retconned the entire idea of limitless ammo weapons away.

I mean, hell, Jacob's dad had been stranded on that planet for 10 years, and his men still used thermal clips. You could try justifying that by saying its just for gameplay purposes to make sure you dont run out of ammo, but Jacob's dad seems familiar with the thermal clip idea, since when you leave him the gun to commit suicide, he says something about how the thermal clip doesnt have enough charges to defend himself from his men.

And yet. Verner.

\\: |

Modifié par Simon_Says, 24 avril 2012 - 05:56 .

[SS2Dante]

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...


Still doesn't answer where all the old guns went. Or why they were abandoned everywhere, when I just said that there are good reasons for keeping pre-clip guns.

Earth is a grey hellhole. Industry has been blasted to bits. The resistance is scraping by for survival. Now, if I had to survive for an indeterminate amount of time with limited access to resources, I'm going to grab the gun that doesn't require a clip every few dozen rounds. I'll want the one that can sing from now till next week before running dry, even if it doesn't hit as hard.

How advanced a piece of tech is has no direct bearing on how good it will be in any particular situation.

Despite the fact that Bioware gave us a somewhat half-assed explanation of why we use thermal clips now instead of guns with infinite ammo, I think they really just retconned the entire idea of limitless ammo weapons away.

I mean, hell, Jacob's dad had been stranded on that planet for 10 years, and his men still used thermal clips. You could try justifying that by saying its just for gameplay purposes to make sure you dont run out of ammo, but Jacob's dad seems familiar with the thermal clip idea, since when you leave him the gun to commit suicide, he says something about how the thermal clip doesnt have enough charges to defend himself from his men.

To be fair, this was a major gameplay change, so there really is no way they could have smoothly retconned it.

[byne]

Simon_Says wrote...

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

Still doesn't answer where all the old guns went. Or why they were abandoned everywhere, when I just said that there are good reasons for keeping pre-clip guns.

Earth is a grey hellhole. Industry has been blasted to bits. The resistance is scraping by for survival. Now, if I had to survive for an indeterminate amount of time with limited access to resources, I'm going to grab the gun that doesn't require a clip every few dozen rounds. I'll want the one that can sing from now till next week before running dry, even if it doesn't hit as hard.

How advanced a piece of tech is has no direct bearing on how good it will be in any particular situation.

Despite the fact that Bioware gave us a somewhat half-assed explanation of why we use thermal clips now instead of guns with infinite ammo, I think they really just retconned the entire idea of limitless ammo weapons away.

I mean, hell, Jacob's dad had been stranded on that planet for 10 years, and his men still used thermal clips. You could try justifying that by saying its just for gameplay purposes to make sure you dont run out of ammo, but Jacob's dad seems familiar with the thermal clip idea, since when you leave him the gun to commit suicide, he says something about how the thermal clip doesnt have enough charges to defend himself from his men.

And yet. Verner.

When even Conrad sees flaws in your logic, you know you're screwed.