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[gunslinger_ruiz]

"I need you to believe," The Illusive Man, to Shepard after renegade dialogue option. Can't remember if paragon dialogue gets that too, but it's obvious he wants you to believe he can control the Reapers/believe in Control/Indoctrination/"Ascension".

The Illusive Man is being controlled by the Reapers, even though he thinks he's not, everything he does and says is either what the Reapers want him to say/do or what they allow him to say/do. "I need you to believe," becomes "The Reapers need you to believe." Forcing you to shoot Anderson becomes the Reapers forcing you to shoot him. I view TIM picking up that gun and contemplating shooting you and Anderson is what the Reapers allow him to do, since he doesn't out right shoot you, because the Reapers still want you alive.

Two ways to stop TIM, paragon dialogue until he sees he's indoctrinated and shoots himself, or renegade dialogue until he's pissed enough to shove Anderson out of the way giving you the perfect shot at him. Fun fact, that option leads to him saying almost exactly what Saren said back in ME1, "I am the pinnacle of evolution for our species!" or something similar.

Don't know about the default ways to stop TIM, the white options, always had enough Reputation to avoid the potential mess.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 26 avril 2012 - 07:29 .

[Arian Dynas]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Thaaats a nice big post Arian, but good to see you welcome back to the thread.

Y'know what I've found odd concerning the Reaper IFF is that they all know it's Reaper Tech and they all know Reaper Tech could emit that wonderful Indoctrination signal. Maybe they thought it was too small to be a danger? Or maybe it was just overlooked by the crew, even EDI, for the benefits. Maybe they thought EDI would keep the signal from broadcasting having done so much testing and diagnostics on it after the Collectors jumped them.

Speculation!

Well, it IS rather small, and EDI did insist after the Collector attack that she had the thing under control.

And more than likely, other than the Human Reaper and the Derelict Reaper, it is the one thing even N00bs to the series are gaurrunteed to cross.

Also, can we have someone twitter Gamble and find out why it is he thinks Destroy is the not the best ending?

[DirtyPhoenix]

About the sound from the collector ship panels, I first identified those panels on the Citadel by that i dunno, sparking? sound, later I saw those panels and they immediately reminded me of the panels on the outside of SB's ship.

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...


Also, can we have someone twitter Gamble and find out why it is he thinks Destroy is the not the best ending?

People keep saying that is a strike against IT, but I dont follow the logic in that. Isnt it just as, if not more, likely that he's implying that the Destroy ending as-is/face value is not the best ending for the story? 

I'll eat my words if I'm wrong, but I'm betting that he WONT clarify which ending he thinks is the best, nor will he elaborate on why he thinks Destroy is not the best ending. I think he is hinting at the fact that people shouldnt be debating which ending is the best based on what we currently have in front of us. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Thaaats a nice big post Arian, but good to see you welcome back to the thread.

Y'know what I've found odd concerning the Reaper IFF is that they all know it's Reaper Tech and they all know Reaper Tech could emit that wonderful Indoctrination signal. Maybe they thought it was too small to be a danger? Or maybe it was just overlooked by the crew, even EDI, for the benefits. Maybe they thought EDI would keep the signal from broadcasting having done so much testing and diagnostics on it after the Collectors jumped them.

Speculation!

Well, it IS rather small, and EDI did insist after the Collector attack that she had the thing under control.

And more than likely, other than the Human Reaper and the Derelict Reaper, it is the one thing even N00bs to the series are gaurrunteed to cross.

Also, can we have someone twitter Gamble and find out why it is he thinks Destroy is the not the best ending?

I would but... I do not "tweet".

However, how bout a list of things all players regardless of DLC come in contact with throughout main gameplay that could cause indoctrination:

Sovereign - ME1, Virmire and Battle of the Citadel
Derelict Reaper - ME2, you see numerous video logs of the crew in stages of indoctrination just from being inside the ship.
Reaper IFF - ME2, small but still Reaper Tech.
Direct confrontation with at least 3 Reaper Destroyers - ME3, you even talk to one.
Harbinger - ME3, he personally grazes you with a red beam of death.
The Illusive Man - ME3, with his "control implants" it's not impossible he's become of a hub of indoctrination. He also assumes direct control of you.
The Citadel - ME1 2 and 3, created by Reapers, potential "subtle" indoctrination hub.

Object Rho - Arrival DLC only, you're directly affected by the object which alludes to being influenced by Harbinger him/itself.
Various side mission Indoctrination "artifacts" - ME1, machine cultist side missions. ME2, at least one side mission in a mine. ME3, various locations including the first N7 mission to hit a Cerberus base.

Did I miss anything?

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


Also, can we have someone twitter Gamble and find out why it is he thinks Destroy is the not the best ending?

People keep saying that is a strike against IT, but I dont follow the logic in that. Isnt it just as, if not more, likely that he's implying that the Destroy ending as-is/face value is not the best ending for the story? 

I'll eat my words if I'm wrong, but I'm betting that he WONT clarify which ending he thinks is the best, nor will he elaborate on why he thinks Destroy is not the best ending. I think he is hinting at the fact that people shouldnt be debating which ending is the best based on what we currently have in front of us. 

I agree with this post!

[DirtyPhoenix]

Taking the endings at face value, choosing destroy gets alot of innocent synthetics killed, hell they were your allies. So I can see why destroy isn't the best potion, but only IF we take the endings at face value.

[Arian Dynas]

pirate1802 wrote...

Taking the endings at face value, choosing destroy gets alot of innocent synthetics killed, hell they were your allies. So I can see why destroy isn't the best potion, but only IF we take the endings at face value.

Well. I know for a fact the breath scene takes place on Earth because the concrete matches the pattern of concrete in the Hammer Forward Base. So that gives me some comfort. Hopefully.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Arian Dynas wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Taking the endings at face value, choosing destroy gets alot of innocent synthetics killed, hell they were your allies. So I can see why destroy isn't the best potion, but only IF we take the endings at face value.

Well. I know for a fact the breath scene takes place on Earth because the concrete matches the pattern of concrete in the Hammer Forward Base. So that gives me some comfort. Hopefully.

This drama is going on for too long. Even if Bioware planned this all alone they are stretching this now. I doubt many people will be left to play the DLC when it comes out. I can't say about myself. There are many hints towards indoctronation, my paragon mind accepts that, but my renegade mind tells me not the get my hope too high. I'm siding with renegade ATM.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Taking the endings at face value, choosing destroy gets alot of innocent synthetics killed, hell they were your allies. So I can see why destroy isn't the best potion, but only IF we take the endings at face value.

Well. I know for a fact the breath scene takes place on Earth because the concrete matches the pattern of concrete in the Hammer Forward Base. So that gives me some comfort. Hopefully.

I'm still a firm believer that it's on Earth as well. I finished a playthrough last night and picked the destroy option to make sure I got it. BUT, you remember that third tire I thought I found a couple days ago? I'm pretty sure that's just more rubble now having seen it with my graphics full on (youtube quality sucks).
The rest of that "vehicle" structure definitely still looks like a Mako though, even the tire shapes on top of it. A lot of that scene is so hard to analyze, makes me wish I could record high quality stuff and rewind it.

[Ravereth]

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


Also, can we have someone twitter Gamble and find out why it is he thinks Destroy is the not the best ending?

People keep saying that is a strike against IT, but I dont follow the logic in that. Isnt it just as, if not more, likely that he's implying that the Destroy ending as-is/face value is not the best ending for the story? 

I'll eat my words if I'm wrong, but I'm betting that he WONT clarify which ending he thinks is the best, nor will he elaborate on why he thinks Destroy is not the best ending. I think he is hinting at the fact that people shouldnt be debating which ending is the best based on what we currently have in front of us. 

Is it just me or the middle tweet got deleted?

[DirtyPhoenix]

Use FRAPS and record it at your screen resolution. And rewind it as many times as you want ;D

[gunslinger_ruiz]

pirate1802 wrote...

Use FRAPS and record it at your screen resolution. And rewind it as many times as you want ;D

Last I checked good FRAPS wasn't free...but that was a solid 3 years ago I'll go check again.

[HellishFiend]

Ravereth wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


Also, can we have someone twitter Gamble and find out why it is he thinks Destroy is the not the best ending?

People keep saying that is a strike against IT, but I dont follow the logic in that. Isnt it just as, if not more, likely that he's implying that the Destroy ending as-is/face value is not the best ending for the story? 

I'll eat my words if I'm wrong, but I'm betting that he WONT clarify which ending he thinks is the best, nor will he elaborate on why he thinks Destroy is not the best ending. I think he is hinting at the fact that people shouldnt be debating which ending is the best based on what we currently have in front of us. 

Is it just me or the middle tweet got deleted?

Assuming it was an actual tweet that he later deleted:
Points for IT, imo. He for some reason decided to mention what he felt was the best among the face-value ending interpretations, then decided it wasnt a good idea, given what they have planned. (Also possible that face value is real, and he simply didnt want to influence peoples opinion, but I doubt that possibility)

Assuming it's a fake screenshot:
No implications whatsoever, just people trying to cause trouble.

If it was an actual tweet that was still there and hadnt been deleted:
Not sure. Probably wouldnt be a good sign for us.

[DirtyPhoenix]

The unregistered version can record for 30 seconds, enough to capture the breath scene.

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Taking the endings at face value, choosing destroy gets alot of innocent synthetics killed, hell they were your allies. So I can see why destroy isn't the best potion, but only IF we take the endings at face value.

Well. I know for a fact the breath scene takes place on Earth because the concrete matches the pattern of concrete in the Hammer Forward Base. So that gives me some comfort. Hopefully.

I'm still a firm believer that it's on Earth as well. I finished a playthrough last night and picked the destroy option to make sure I got it. BUT, you remember that third tire I thought I found a couple days ago? I'm pretty sure that's just more rubble now having seen it with my graphics full on (youtube quality sucks).
The rest of that "vehicle" structure definitely still looks like a Mako though, even the tire shapes on top of it. A lot of that scene is so hard to analyze, makes me wish I could record high quality stuff and rewind it.

It still looked like a tire to me, the last time I looked. Granted it is very difficult to make out, even at high brightness. In a perfect world, I would take an image of an upside down mako and try to align it to that scene, because to me it looks like that tire/wheel could match up with the positioning of the other apparent wheels/tires to make out a more complete upside-down mako. 

[Ravereth]

HellishFiend wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


Also, can we have someone twitter Gamble and find out why it is he thinks Destroy is the not the best ending?

People keep saying that is a strike against IT, but I dont follow the logic in that. Isnt it just as, if not more, likely that he's implying that the Destroy ending as-is/face value is not the best ending for the story? 

I'll eat my words if I'm wrong, but I'm betting that he WONT clarify which ending he thinks is the best, nor will he elaborate on why he thinks Destroy is not the best ending. I think he is hinting at the fact that people shouldnt be debating which ending is the best based on what we currently have in front of us. 

Is it just me or the middle tweet got deleted?

Assuming it was an actual tweet that he later deleted:
Points for IT, imo. He for some reason decided to mention what he felt was the best among the face-value ending interpretations, then decided it wasnt a good idea, given what they have planned. (Also possible that face value is real, and he simply didnt want to influence peoples opinion, but I doubt that possibility)

Assuming it's a fake screenshot:
No implications whatsoever, just people trying to cause trouble.

If it was an actual tweet that was still there and hadnt been deleted:
Not sure. Probably wouldnt be a good sign for us.

I took this screenshot myself so... It's real   

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Taking the endings at face value, choosing destroy gets alot of innocent synthetics killed, hell they were your allies. So I can see why destroy isn't the best potion, but only IF we take the endings at face value.

Well. I know for a fact the breath scene takes place on Earth because the concrete matches the pattern of concrete in the Hammer Forward Base. So that gives me some comfort. Hopefully.

I'm still a firm believer that it's on Earth as well. I finished a playthrough last night and picked the destroy option to make sure I got it. BUT, you remember that third tire I thought I found a couple days ago? I'm pretty sure that's just more rubble now having seen it with my graphics full on (youtube quality sucks).
The rest of that "vehicle" structure definitely still looks like a Mako though, even the tire shapes on top of it. A lot of that scene is so hard to analyze, makes me wish I could record high quality stuff and rewind it.

It still looked like a tire to me, the last time I looked. Granted it is very difficult to make out, even at high brightness. In a perfect world, I would take an image of an upside down mako and try to align it to that scene, because to me it looks like that tire/wheel could match up with the positioning of the other apparent wheels/tires to make out a more complete upside-down mako. 

I did that...With my mind o_o. After looking up a high res Mako rendering. I bet i could do what yur saying if I hadn't misplaced my photoshop 7.

Maybe that's why it was easy to believe. But with my GTX 560 Ti seeing that scene first hand it did look like rubble . Not to say the other two tires didn't look like tires, they do, and the structure looks either like a Mako or like the alliance troop transports that happen to have the same tires.

[HellishFiend]

Ravereth wrote...


I took this screenshot myself so... It's real   

Well, then take out the "if its fake" part of my post, and you have my thoughts. 

[DirtyPhoenix]

I've got a bad feeling that Bioware is actually enjoying all this speculation and rage about the ending (any publicity is good publicity) so what they'll do is even in the EC they arn't gonna give any clear-cut answer. The ending will still be speculative with some of the question answered but largely upto one's interpretation (like it's now. Was it IT or was it real?) If that happens I swear I'll never buy another EA game in a very long time. Whether its IT or not, I want a crear answer, not more speculations. God that word has lost all respect now .I pray that I'm wrong :'(

Modifié par pirate1802, 26 avril 2012 - 08:06 .

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

I did that...With my mind o_o. After looking up a high res Mako rendering. I bet i could do what yur saying if I hadn't misplaced my photoshop 7.

Maybe that's why it was easy to believe. But with my GTX 560 Ti seeing that scene first hand it did look like rubble . Not to say the other two tires didn't look like tires, they do, and the structure looks either like a Mako or like the alliance troop transports that happen to have the same tires.

I thought that scene was pre-rendered? Video card quality shouldnt make a difference, in that case. Maybe it just has lots of filters, but it looked pre-rendered to me. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I'm sure it is, otherwise people would find a way to flycam it and find out what's really going on. 

[DJBare]

pirate1802 wrote...

Taking the endings at face value, choosing destroy gets alot of innocent synthetics killed, hell they were your allies. So I can see why destroy isn't the best potion, but only IF we take the endings at face value.

For me, "taking things at face value" is where IT is strongly supported, the whole thing about indoctrination is deception, taking the victims own thoughts and twisting them, Saren was easily manipulated in this way because he already had a burr up his arse, even Garrus could have gone the same way because he had a problem with authority(and a stick up his arse).

[HellishFiend]

DJBare wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Taking the endings at face value, choosing destroy gets alot of innocent synthetics killed, hell they were your allies. So I can see why destroy isn't the best potion, but only IF we take the endings at face value.

For me, "taking things at face value" is where IT is strongly supported, the whole thing about indoctrination is deception, taking the victims own thoughts and twisting them, Saren was easily manipulated in this way because he already had a burr up his arse, even Garrus could have gone the same way because he had a problem with authority(and a stick up his arse).

Indeed. So often the anti-IT crowd points out "problems" with IT and then fail to realize that in the next breath they must also fix the "problems" with face-value in order to accomplish anything. They either ignore those issues entirely or just say we need to wait for the "Clarification DLC", as they like to call it, without realizing that falling back on "wait for the dlc" completely defeats the purpose of speculating and theorizing. 

[Naseilen]

HellishFiend wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

I did that...With my mind o_o. After looking up a high res Mako rendering. I bet i could do what yur saying if I hadn't misplaced my photoshop 7.

Maybe that's why it was easy to believe. But with my GTX 560 Ti seeing that scene first hand it did look like rubble . Not to say the other two tires didn't look like tires, they do, and the structure looks either like a Mako or like the alliance troop transports that happen to have the same tires.

I thought that scene was pre-rendered? Video card quality shouldnt make a difference, in that case. Maybe it just has lots of filters, but it looked pre-rendered to me. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I'm sure it is, otherwise people would find a way to flycam it and find out what's really going on. 

Yup, it was pre-rendered. You can download rad video tools and open scene directly from game folder.