57139 réponses à ce sujet

[FugitiveMind]

The happiness I gained for deluding myself into the kool-aid of this thread and belief that this is really how it's going to work is slowly fading into the anger of not being able to finish the game because I bought an unfinished product.

I think I'll try beer again...

[k8ee]

mass effect 3 can be the end of Shepard's story, but not like this.

It just has to be harby effing with Shep's mind. That's what he does, right? Tries to sway your thoughts. Of course he'd want Shepard to 'control' or 'synthesize' as these are both compromises and keep the reapers alive. Only destroying the reapers is what Shep has been trying to do for all three games. EDI says she'd die for Joker, so let her. Sad, but what can you do?


....Add the beer to your koolaid
:happy:

Modifié par k8ee, 10 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[lookingglassmind]

humes spork wrote...

Two things bug me.

If it's Indoctrination or whatever, then wouldn't the endings that imply Shepard submits to Indoctrination (merge and control) be worse endings; that is to say, wouldn't they be the consequence of a lower EMS than destroy? Especially merge, which has an EMS requirement that's otherwise unattainable in a straight play through unless you make peace between the quarians and geth.

And, I keep going back to what the AI on the Citadel way back early in ME1 said, it's the role of organics to dominate and destroy synthetic life. That pretty well perfectly mirrors what goes on in the game's conclusion and supports the whole "tech singularity" thing. Especially from the synthetics' point of view, which the game goes out of its way to emphasize beginning with Legion in ME2 and pounds over the player's head during 3 between the quarian/geth conflict and EDI. Especially in light that Legion reminds you the quarians started their wars, the geth were merely defending themselves and actually stayed their hand from destroying the quarians (as the geth couldn't predict the implication of such an act), and most importantly the quarian/geth conflict was simultaneously a civil war between pro- and anti-geth quarians.

And, add in the context that in Control, Shepard doesn't try to force the Reapers to serve organics (as was TIM's plan and consistent with the theme of organics dominating synthetics). Shepard just sends them away, while simultaneously unshackling them from the Catalyst which is implied to be their control mechanism.

I think the sequence is Harbinger frakking with Shepard's head, but I don't think it may be to Indoctrinate Shepard. Especially in the context it's wholly out of character for Harbinger to simply leave before confirming Shepard's death or harvesting him/her. I'm wondering if Harbinger is testing Shepard's resolve and actually determining whether technological singularity is an inevitability, and organics have evolved beyond the desire to dominate or destroy synthetics. If Shepard's willing to give up his or her own life to send the Reapers away without forcing them into submission to organics, or merge synthetic and human life, it would certainly give evidence technological singularity is not inevitable.

Can someone with ME1 knowledge comment on this, please? Or general dark energy/tech singularity knowledge from the games?

[CanadAvenger]

It's the only thing that makes sense to me, as I refuse to accept the ending as it stands now. If you manage to have enough assets that Shepard "breathes" at the end, the hallucination thing makes even more sense, as that could be him "waking up" after being lasered by Harbinger.

Despite the fact that the premise is kind of lame and that if it's true we have to wait for more DLC, this is basically the only thing I have any hope for at this point.

[k8ee]

the dark energy idea was sort of picked up in ME2, then dropped. The theme of synthetics and organics and who should dominate has been a constant theme. The painful thing is that Shep proves the two can get along...

star child has to be harby in disguise, trying to mess with Shep's mind. I just can't understand it otherwise.

[lookingglassmind]

@ ka8ee: But is it... a 'good' test? Is it one that, perhaps, is preferable to Destroy? Higher in meaning than indoctrination itself? That person's post was the most convincing one I've seen for Synthesis, a choice that my gut told me to take even though I ultimately chose to Destroy.

[ynh]

CanadAvenger wrote...

It's the only thing that makes sense to me, as I refuse to accept the ending as it stands now. If you manage to have enough assets that Shepard "breathes" at the end, the hallucination thing makes even more sense, as that could be him "waking up" after being lasered by Harbinger.

Despite the fact that the premise is kind of lame and that if it's true we have to wait for more DLC, this is basically the only thing I have any hope for at this point.

Ladies and gents, I think this is the real ending (what bioware may have intended).

There is no way he could've fallen back to earth without burning up in the atmosphere. The fact that he is surrounded by rubble that looks very similar to Earth rubble indicates to me that he passed out.

Could shepard have triggered the catalyst with his mind? Wasn't there mention of reaper indoctrination links going both ways?

[mupp3tz]

k8ee wrote...

the dark energy idea was sort of picked up in ME2, then dropped. The theme of synthetics and organics and who should dominate has been a constant theme. The painful thing is that Shep proves the two can get along...

This may help a bit, also.

[Makrillo]

I hope it was, cause man did that ending suck balls.

Should have done it like Fallout... you finish the fight, reapers die or are controlled, you get back to your crew, the ones who still live and everyone is happy and smiling or pissed off if they didnt like your decision. (Or they talk about you at your funeral or whatever if Shep happens to die), then they cut to the far future and you get some historian explaining what happened after the reaper wars. Stories changing depending on what choices you made at the different civilizations...

An ending like that is what I was hoping for, but not expecting, endings arent biowares thing. Never has been, other than the end of Planescape torment they have always let me down. Kotor was alright too I guess, but not great...
But ME3 endings, all of them, has to be the most disappointing endings in the history of gaming for me. And I played games for more than 20 years... and not only disappointing cause they didnt match my expectation but because they were so poor in design and execution that they seem to have been written for a retarded eight year old. I loved this series and you god damn almost ruined it for me with this atrocity. A killscreen like the old arcade-games have would have been more satisfying, at least I would have known you didnt actually put in an effort to reach such a poor quality finish...

[lookingglassmind]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

This may help a bit, also.

Hey, thanks. That was an awesome article. I think I'm going to sig it.

[mupp3tz]

lookingglassmind wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...
This may help a bit, also.

Hey, thanks. That was an awesome article. I think I'm going to sig it.

Of course!  Anything to make how we've been handled make a little more sense and easier to bear.

[Arlind Webb]

krystalevenstar wrote...

I'm going to go load the autosave from the citadel and play around with some choices and look for more clues... I shall return.

Find out anything?

[MPSai]

ynh wrote...

CanadAvenger wrote...

It's the only thing that makes sense to me, as I refuse to accept the ending as it stands now. If you manage to have enough assets that Shepard "breathes" at the end, the hallucination thing makes even more sense, as that could be him "waking up" after being lasered by Harbinger.

Despite the fact that the premise is kind of lame and that if it's true we have to wait for more DLC, this is basically the only thing I have any hope for at this point.

Ladies and gents, I think this is the real ending (what bioware may have intended).

There is no way he could've fallen back to earth without burning up in the atmosphere. The fact that he is surrounded by rubble that looks very similar to Earth rubble indicates to me that he passed out.

This makes so much sense... and yet, I have trouble believing it was intentional. I guess we'll see. I suppose I'll have to go with Destroy next time I beat the game... 

[NoUserNameHere]

CanadAvenger wrote...

It's the only thing that makes sense to me, as I refuse to accept the ending as it stands now. If you manage to have enough assets that Shepard "breathes" at the end, the hallucination thing makes even more sense, as that could be him "waking up" after being lasered by Harbinger.

Despite the fact that the premise is kind of lame and that if it's true we have to wait for more DLC, this is basically the only thing I have any hope for at this point.

That only happens in the destroy ending, right? The one where he finishes what he went up there to do.

It could be a dying fever dream on the streets of London. In control or synthesis Shep dies for real because he's got closure. In destroy he keeps his resolve long enough to warrant picking himself up and finishing the fight... asuming they have war assets left to get some medigel to their position.

[crimsontotem]

dude clue to me is certain... if you chose red ending and u start shooting at that thing... whatever that kills reaper... as he start shooting... this half dead Shepard suddenly get the second wind out of nowhere... to me it's indication that he is waking up from Harbinger's trying to indoctrinate Shepard.

[k8ee]

@byne,

if you're still listening, can you edit the OP to include all our "conclusions?" lol, or maybe a list that supports why it seems like a dream, just so we can keep track of everything?

[comrade gando]

What I think should have happened is, shepard doesn't get hit by harbinger, squad gets left behind somehow, showdown with the illusive man, final boss battle vs harbinger on foot. Well shepard destroyed a reaper on foot before, how's he gonna do it this time? Well that's up to bioware if they did it this way, perhaps utilizing the citadel's weaponry? idk I'm just delirious from how bad these endings were...

[humes spork]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Can someone with ME1 knowledge comment on this, please? Or general dark energy/tech singularity knowledge from the games?

I do have ME1 knowledge and I'll comment. The dark energy thing comes up three times in the whole trilogy outside codex entries. That's it.  The codex entries for the mass effect phenomenon itself state extremely clearly dark energy is the phenomenon that creates mass effect fields. No ambiguity, no inference and no implication.

Seriously, in the greater context the leviathan of Dis gets more attention and foreshadowing than does dark energy.

Parasini worries about Noveria clients' interest in dark energy. Taken in the context of the javelin missile codex entry and other places, you can reasonably infer those clients are simply interested in developing planet-busting weapons or potentially something larger. Javelin missiles themselves use dark energy to emit powerful mass effect fields on detonation which warp the space-time continuum temporarily to inflict damage on the target; in essence, javelin missiles are miniature singularity generators.

Haestrom's sun is aging prematurely due to dark energy buildup. There's eezo in the sun, and given plasma tends just a little to be ionized it's reacting and generating a mass effect field that artificially increases the sun's own mass leading to premature aging. Seriously, how is this some major mystery?

Object Rho uses dark energy to stay in orbit and to maintain its kinetic barriers. Well, duh. Everybody in the Mass Effect universe uses dark energy to "stay in orbit" and "maintain kinetic barriers". That's how mass effect fields work. Bigass asteroid, powerful ass kinetic barriers, no duh it's going to have a crapload of dark energy associated with it.

In the end, the whole "dark energy" plot people are effing obsessed with is even more patently stupid than "let's create synthetics to destroy organics so they're not destroyed by synthetics". Except, in this case it's "let's leave tech that uses and generates dark energy around everywhere, set up an entire galactic transportation and communication network that uses and spreads dark energy for organics to find and use regularly, and use and spread dark energy ourselves, to keep organics from using and spreading dark energy". Use your damn brain, folks. Put even a tenth of the thought you do poking holes in what we have, and you'll figure out pretty quickly that what we got is even less stupid than the dark energy thing...and that's saying something.

Seriously, the whole dark energy plot is akin to saying the Soviets who designed the RBMK-1 reactor were vehemently anti-nuclear, intentionally designed the RBMK-1 reactor to have a void coefficient so high no sane nuclear scientist or engineer would ever claim to be safe unless under threat of death, and ordered the low-output tests that caused the Chernobyl disaster to demonstrate the potential dangers of nuclear power.

Modifié par humes spork, 10 mars 2012 - 09:38 .

[byne]

k8ee wrote...

@byne,

if you're still listening, can you edit the OP to include all our "conclusions?" lol, or maybe a list that supports why it seems like a dream, just so we can keep track of everything?

Well, I've missed like 8 pages of the thread while sleeping, and I'm leaving the house for a while, so I cant go back and read it all right now, but if someone wants to put together a list, I'll gladly edit the OP to include it.

If not, I might go back and comb the thread for all our conclusions later, but I cant guarantee it 

[FugitiveMind]

Page 5, Beast919's post... pretty much covers it all

[krystalevenstar]

Arlind Webb wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

I'm going to go load the autosave from the citadel and play around with some choices and look for more clues... I shall return.

Find out anything?

Yeah, I posted what I noticed on the last post on page 9

Edit:  Here it is

Modifié par krystalevenstar, 10 mars 2012 - 09:41 .

[lookingglassmind]

humes spork wrote...

In the end, the whole "dark energy" plot people are effing obsessed with is even more patently stupid than "let's create synthetics to destroy organics so they're not destroyed by synthetics". Except, in this case it's "let's leave tech that uses and generates dark energy around everywhere, set up an entire galactic transportation and communication network that uses and spreads dark energy for organics to find and use regularly, and use and spread dark energy ourselves, to keep organics from using and spreading dark energy". Use your damn brain, folks. Put even a tenth of the thought you do poking holes in what we have, and you'll figure out pretty quickly that what we got is even less stupid than the dark energy thing...and that's saying something.

Hmm. Thank you for your elaboration. I need to think about how this connects to Synthesis.

[k8ee]

FugitiveMind wrote...

Page 5, Beast919's post... pretty much covers it all

Yes, that list and there are a few more important points, like the codex about indoctrination, etc, etc. I'm heading out too, but if I return and it isn't done, perhaps I will piece it all together.

[Fjordgnu]

Even before I finished the game and started wishing for it to be a hallucination, I thought it would be. I mean, the way the light overwhelms you and you wake up in a dream-like state? Until the husks arrived, I actually expected for the world to shift back to normal, with someone yelling for Shepard to move it.