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[byne]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

im just wondering, how did the Protheans come to the conclusions that the cycles mean something is controlling the reapers?

"oh, it seems the reapers comes every 50K years to harvest everyone..... 50k years? why 50K? that too much of a coincidence- clearly theyre servants of a higher power"

I mean mean I follow a similar pattern every day.... does that mean Im being controlled as well??????

There was said more than that. Patterns in the evolution of species, conflicts etc. were all too similar.

Must point out, once again, they do NOT in fact come every 50,000 years on the dot, it's ~50,000 years, and they strike whenever galactic society has reached a certain point. Could be earlier, could be later if the cycle has no advanced species.

Doesn't matter, it's about the same every time and it's still repeating. The observation is based on scaling every cycle to 50k years which makes the patterns nearly identical evey time, as shown in the little animation with the galaxy map. Too much coincidence.

Its not really a coincidence. Its exactly what the Reapers have set up the galaxy for.

Sovereign said...

Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic life. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

Things happen the same way every time because thats how the Reapers want things to happen.

Modifié par byne, 27 avril 2012 - 01:55 .

[Arian Dynas]

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

im just wondering, how did the Protheans come to the conclusions that the cycles mean something is controlling the reapers?

"oh, it seems the reapers comes every 50K years to harvest everyone..... 50k years? why 50K? that too much of a coincidence- clearly theyre servants of a higher power"

I mean mean I follow a similar pattern every day.... does that mean Im being controlled as well??????

There was said more than that. Patterns in the evolution of species, conflicts etc. were all too similar.

thats because their evolutionary paths were guided by the reapers.... the mass relays, citadel, etc.  they were forced down the same path- it was hardly a coincidence 

I still dont see any exterior inlfience.

harbinger: "you exsist because we allow, and you will fall because we demand it"

Being a nit here... if memory serves, that was Soverign who said it.

[Simon_Says]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

And, mind you, the VI did not speak discretely as to if the Reapers were subject to an intellgence or mearly some passive pattern, (i.e., evolutionary incidence). For all we know, the Reaper's, (or equivilants), could have risen and fallen numerous times before.

The Leviathan of Dis was apparently dated as being almost a billion years old in ME1 so I kinda doubt that they rose and fell multiple times.

Unless if the ending is literal and the Starbrat wasn't the first Starbrat, hrm...

[llbountyhunter]

Arian Dynas wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

im just wondering, how did the Protheans come to the conclusions that the cycles mean something is controlling the reapers?

"oh, it seems the reapers comes every 50K years to harvest everyone..... 50k years? why 50K? that too much of a coincidence- clearly theyre servants of a higher power"

I mean mean I follow a similar pattern every day.... does that mean Im being controlled as well??????

There was said more than that. Patterns in the evolution of species, conflicts etc. were all too similar.

thats because their evolutionary paths were guided by the reapers.... the mass relays, citadel, etc.  they were forced down the same path- it was hardly a coincidence 

I still dont see any exterior inlfience.

harbinger: "you exsist because we allow, and you will fall because we demand it"

Being a nit here... if memory serves, that was Soverign who said it.

sorry typo......   

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Why is it seemingly lost that Gamble actually deleted that tweet? Everyone is focusing on what he said in the tweet, and the implications of the fact that he deleted it are simply ignored.

Ok.... mind expanding on that my friend?

I already summarized my thoughts on it in this thread back when the tweet first came out, but I'll try to remember exactly what I said. 

Basically, I think that by saying the destroy ending is not the best ending, he could easily be implying that the Destroy ending AS IT IS (face value) is not the "best ending". I think it could just as easily be suggesting that we shouldnt take the ending at face value, implying IT could be true. 

Later, he posted and then supposedly deleted the tweet where he says he likes the synthesis ending best. What are the implications of that? If face-value is true, perhaps he just didnt want to color fans views of the ending and ruin it for everyone else (to some people, it would be like an Angel coming out of the sky and declaring favor for a specific ethnicity of people). Or, perhaps he was saying which of the face value endings he liked best, even though theyre not to be taken at face value, but then realized it was a mistake to "play along" that much, and retracted it. 

[Rifneno]

HellishFiend wrote...

My theory is that the Frogurt was the only actual thing in the store that was cursed. The writers wanted the viewers to think that the Krusty was cursed, but it was all just a cursed Frogurt-induced delusion.

It could also have been psychosis from the potassium benzoate. I bet that stuff's not good for you. ... Woah. I wiki'd it, and the first section of potassium benzoate? "Synthesis"! Yep, it was the evil potassium benzoate in the toppings. Damn you, potassium benzoate!

byne wrote...

"Lets forcibly turn everyone hispanic! White people will clearly always try to enslave black people, and those silly black people will try to insist they have rights and revolt, so we should remove the possibility of that by making everyone the same! Diversity is awful!"

See, Synthesis becomes clearly racist if you use anything other than organics and synthetics as the example.

I dont understand how anyone can look at forcibly altering everyone in the entire galaxy right down to the very structure of their DNA, and see that as the happy ending.

I honestly can't even think about the ethical implications. I simply can't get past how impossibly retarded the entire concept itself is.
Anyone else 8-bit theater fans? Because synthesis reminds me of this. It just leaves me stuttering about, unable to even voice all the ways it's incomprehensibly idiotic. "It's too stupid in too many ways to be real." Yes, Sarda. It certainly is.

SS2Dante wrote...

Hell, if I get to be a cyborg I'd be happy

---Day 1---
"Look at me, I can lift the fridge!"
---Day 12---
"What do you mean 'acute heavy metal poisoning'?!"

byne wrote...

If my geth wasnt a sexless robot, I think half of his death poses would qualify as sexual harassment to the teammates who have to come and slather him with medigel.

I'm still kind of fuzzy on how medi-gel works for geth...

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

im just wondering, how did the Protheans come to the conclusions that the cycles mean something is controlling the reapers?

"oh, it seems the reapers comes every 50K years to harvest everyone..... 50k years? why 50K? that too much of a coincidence- clearly theyre servants of a higher power"

I mean mean I follow a similar pattern every day.... does that mean Im being controlled as well??????

There was said more than that. Patterns in the evolution of species, conflicts etc. were all too similar.

Must point out, once again, they do NOT in fact come every 50,000 years on the dot, it's ~50,000 years, and they strike whenever galactic society has reached a certain point. Could be earlier, could be later if the cycle has no advanced species.

Doesn't matter, it's about the same every time and it's still repeating. The observation is based on scaling every cycle to 50k years which makes the patterns nearly identical evey time, as shown in the little animation with the galaxy map. Too much coincidence.

Its not really a coincidence. Its exactly what the Reapers have set up the galaxy for.

Sovereign said...

Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic life. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

Things happen the same way every time because thats how the Reapers want things to happen.

I would say that it is about technological development but hardly things like wars between civilizations.
Also the creation of an AI that sooner or later waged war against their creators. From what we know every cycle had such AI creations.

[Arian Dynas]

Also, it just occurred to me.

Remember how the Literalists keep comparing us to religious fanatics?

Well I've realized. They're right. We are religious fanatics... and so are they.

You see, around page 1100 we started getting periodic troll invasions, some of the trolls we gained respect for, yet others have committed horrible crimes against us.(coughwaldstr/mintycoolcough*)

We've been fighting about the endings, we still say the endings as they stand are important, but we interpret them differently, they refuse to recognize that stuff after the endings is important, we welcome them in if they are respectful, but they usually refuse to be, and so we get angry...

In other words it's the crusades, and we're playing Saladin!

[MegumiAzusa]

Simon_Says wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

And, mind you, the VI did not speak discretely as to if the Reapers were subject to an intellgence or mearly some passive pattern, (i.e., evolutionary incidence). For all we know, the Reaper's, (or equivilants), could have risen and fallen numerous times before.

The Leviathan of Dis was apparently dated as being almost a billion years old in ME1 so I kinda doubt that they rose and fell multiple times.

Unless if the ending is literal and the Starbrat wasn't the first Starbrat, hrm...

The Leviathan was mostly organic, while the current Reapers are not, that could actually be a point in favor that even the Reapers fall and rise.

[byne]

[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...

Things happen the same way every time because thats how the Reapers want things to happen.[/quote]
I would say that it is about technological development but hardly things like wars between civilizations.
Also the creation of an AI that sooner or later waged war against their creators. From what we know every cycle had such AI creations.
[/quote]

Well, to be fair, we only really know the details of this cycle and the previous one. The Reapers have been Reaping for millions (maybe billions? I dont remember for sure) of years.

Two cycles over the span of millions of years isnt really a large enough sample size to make such assumptions.

I mean, its pretty likely that most cycles had synthetics, yeah, but we dont honestly know. We're just taking the Reapers' word for it.

[Auralius Carolus]

Simon_Says wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

And, mind you, the VI did not speak discretely as to if the Reapers were subject to an intellgence or mearly some passive pattern, (i.e., evolutionary incidence). For all we know, the Reaper's, (or equivilants), could have risen and fallen numerous times before.

The Leviathan of Dis was apparently dated as being almost a billion years old in ME1 so I kinda doubt that they rose and fell multiple times.

Unless if the ending is literal and the Starbrat wasn't the first Starbrat, hrm...

Consider this, however: in ME2 it is revealed that even a "dead" Reaper can influence the living. Even if the Reapers were removed as an active threat, their remains would litter land and space. Close contact would affect the living and all it would take is one more Illusive Man, now with a fuller understanding of their tech, to begin a galactic war and establish a return to the Reapers.

This time, instead of simply reverse engineering faster-than-light tech, we'd see biological processing.

Or there could be a simple technological progression.

Modifié par Auralius Carolus, 27 avril 2012 - 02:05 .

[lex0r11]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, it just occurred to me.

Remember how the Literalists keep comparing us to religious fanatics?

Well I've realized. They're right. We are religious fanatics... and so are they.

You see, around page 1100 we started getting periodic troll invasions, some of the trolls we gained respect for, yet others have committed horrible crimes against us.(coughwaldstr/mintycoolcough*)

We've been fighting about the endings, we still say the endings as they stand are important, but we interpret them differently, they refuse to recognize that stuff after the endings is important, we welcome them in if they are respectful, but they usually refuse to be, and so we get angry...

In other words it's the crusades, and we're playing Saladin!

You are killing me man.

If this is really the case, this is going to end badly.

[HellishFiend]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

And, mind you, the VI did not speak discretely as to if the Reapers were subject to an intellgence or mearly some passive pattern, (i.e., evolutionary incidence). For all we know, the Reaper's, (or equivilants), could have risen and fallen numerous times before.

The Leviathan of Dis was apparently dated as being almost a billion years old in ME1 so I kinda doubt that they rose and fell multiple times.

Unless if the ending is literal and the Starbrat wasn't the first Starbrat, hrm...

The Leviathan was mostly organic, while the current Reapers are not, that could actually be a point in favor that even the Reapers fall and rise.

I've always thought that. Assuming time is a dimension (4th dimension) like it is currently theorized, I think it can be concluded that all tangible things in the universe have a start and end point within that dimension just like the first three dimensions. Reapers are most definitely tangible things. 

[Arian Dynas]

lex0r11 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, it just occurred to me.

Remember how the Literalists keep comparing us to religious fanatics?

Well I've realized. They're right. We are religious fanatics... and so are they.

You see, around page 1100 we started getting periodic troll invasions, some of the trolls we gained respect for, yet others have committed horrible crimes against us.(coughwaldstr/mintycoolcough*)

We've been fighting about the endings, we still say the endings as they stand are important, but we interpret them differently, they refuse to recognize that stuff after the endings is important, we welcome them in if they are respectful, but they usually refuse to be, and so we get angry...

In other words it's the crusades, and we're playing Saladin!

You are killing me man.

If this is really the case, this is going to end badly.

Well for now we get to enjoy being technologically and socially more advanced than them, while creating the concepts of chemistry and inventing the number zero (algebra too) eventually our influence will spread to being a major aspecdt of the BSN, with more liberal interpretations abounding, while only the most hardcore and uncompromisng IDT followers will periodically spam random threads with new info.

Wait...

[Simon_Says]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

And, mind you, the VI did not speak discretely as to if the Reapers were subject to an intellgence or mearly some passive pattern, (i.e., evolutionary incidence). For all we know, the Reaper's, (or equivilants), could have risen and fallen numerous times before.

The Leviathan of Dis was apparently dated as being almost a billion years old in ME1 so I kinda doubt that they rose and fell multiple times.

Unless if the ending is literal and the Starbrat wasn't the first Starbrat, hrm...

The Leviathan was mostly organic, while the current Reapers are not, that could actually be a point in favor that even the Reapers fall and rise.

I don't think it was ever actually explained how Reaper biology actually worked. What proportions of organic/synthetic there were, or if was even truly recognizable as either.

Also, the Catalyst said that Shepard was "the first organic ever" to set foot on that part of the station. Makes one wonder about dudes/squids/sentient slinkies in spacesuits but that's what Starbrat said. Doesn't mention synthetics, now that I think about it...

Modifié par Simon_Says, 27 avril 2012 - 02:13 .

[Auralius Carolus]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, it just occurred to me.

Remember how the Literalists keep comparing us to religious fanatics?

Well I've realized. They're right. We are religious fanatics... and so are they.

You see, around page 1100 we started getting periodic troll invasions, some of the trolls we gained respect for, yet others have committed horrible crimes against us.(coughwaldstr/mintycoolcough*)

We've been fighting about the endings, we still say the endings as they stand are important, but we interpret them differently, they refuse to recognize that stuff after the endings is important, we welcome them in if they are respectful, but they usually refuse to be, and so we get angry...

In other words it's the crusades, and we're playing Saladin!

Riiiiiiiight. Arian, you been joining Legion in the wine cellar again?

Fanaticism is a threat to all forms of belief or devotion- religious, political, emotional, intellectual, etc. That we may be influenced or convinced that IT is plausible does not denote fanaticism.

[Arian Dynas]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, it just occurred to me.

Remember how the Literalists keep comparing us to religious fanatics?

Well I've realized. They're right. We are religious fanatics... and so are they.

You see, around page 1100 we started getting periodic troll invasions, some of the trolls we gained respect for, yet others have committed horrible crimes against us.(coughwaldstr/mintycoolcough*)

We've been fighting about the endings, we still say the endings as they stand are important, but we interpret them differently, they refuse to recognize that stuff after the endings is important, we welcome them in if they are respectful, but they usually refuse to be, and so we get angry...

In other words it's the crusades, and we're playing Saladin!

Riiiiiiiight. Arian, you been joining Legion in the wine cellar again?

'Course not. *hic* Here... have some of this Chebli, it's to die for *hic*.

[HellishFiend]

Simon_Says wrote...


Also, the Catalyst said that Shepard was "the first organic ever" to set foot on that part of the station. Makes one wonder about dudes/squids/sentient slinkies in spacesuits but that's what Starbrat said.

Dont get me started... If he's the first organic ever, why is there organic tech and writing there? Control pedestals designed for organic use? A tube specifically designed to be penetrable by small arms fire that causes some kind of chain reaction? On the exterior of the Citadel? Really?

[Simon_Says]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Consider this, however: in ME2 it is revealed that even a "dead" Reaper can influence the living. Even if the Reapers were removed as an active threat, their remains would litter land and space. Close contact would affect the living and all it would take is one more Illusive Man, now with a fuller understanding of their tech, to begin a galactic war and establish a return to the Reapers.

This time, instead of simply reverse engineering faster-than-light tech, we'd see biological processing.

Or there could be a simple technological progression.

Crap. *Chomps cigar.*

[llbountyhunter]

HellishFiend wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...


Also, the Catalyst said that Shepard was "the first organic ever" to set foot on that part of the station. Makes one wonder about dudes/squids/sentient slinkies in spacesuits but that's what Starbrat said.

Dont get me started... If he's the first organic ever, why is there organic tech and writing there? Control pedestals designed for organic use? A tube specifically designed to be penetrable by small arms fire that causes some kind of chain reaction? On the exterior of the Citadel? Really?

thankfully the whole "higher power" and organic designs can be easily solved with IT.

[HellishFiend]

Simon_Says wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Consider this, however: in ME2 it is revealed that even a "dead" Reaper can influence the living. Even if the Reapers were removed as an active threat, their remains would litter land and space. Close contact would affect the living and all it would take is one more Illusive Man, now with a fuller understanding of their tech, to begin a galactic war and establish a return to the Reapers.

This time, instead of simply reverse engineering faster-than-light tech, we'd see biological processing.

Or there could be a simple technological progression.

Crap. *Chomps cigar.*

Indeed, that is a scary possibility. It's also possible though that if Sovereign was being on the level about them having some kind of higher existence, perhaps the Reapers as we know them are simply the physical manifestations of something... "else".. It would explain a lot. 

[HellishFiend]

llbountyhunter wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...


Also, the Catalyst said that Shepard was "the first organic ever" to set foot on that part of the station. Makes one wonder about dudes/squids/sentient slinkies in spacesuits but that's what Starbrat said.

Dont get me started... If he's the first organic ever, why is there organic tech and writing there? Control pedestals designed for organic use? A tube specifically designed to be penetrable by small arms fire that causes some kind of chain reaction? On the exterior of the Citadel? Really?

thankfully the whole "higher power" and organic designs can be easily solved with IT.

Yep. One of the many reasons I follow it. 

[Simon_Says]

HellishFiend wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...


Also, the Catalyst said that Shepard was "the first organic ever" to set foot on that part of the station. Makes one wonder about dudes/squids/sentient slinkies in spacesuits but that's what Starbrat said.

Dont get me started... If he's the first organic ever, why is there organic tech and writing there? Control pedestals designed for organic use? A tube specifically designed to be penetrable by small arms fire that causes some kind of chain reaction? On the exterior of the Citadel? Really?

Had just edited my post before I saw this.

The Catalyst didn't say anything about synthetics turning up there. So... eh?

Wait, this is the IT thread, shouldn't we be just dismissing the whole thing as dream sequence and moving on with trying to find more evidence for IT rather than dwelling on things we already know to be stupid?

[byne]

HellishFiend wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...


Also, the Catalyst said that Shepard was "the first organic ever" to set foot on that part of the station. Makes one wonder about dudes/squids/sentient slinkies in spacesuits but that's what Starbrat said.

Dont get me started... If he's the first organic ever, why is there organic tech and writing there? Control pedestals designed for organic use? A tube specifically designed to be penetrable by small arms fire that causes some kind of chain reaction? On the exterior of the Citadel? Really?

Plus, it means the Catalyst himself is a machine, so I should probably not listen to him, since we all know machines will always turn on organics.

He screws himself over with his own logic. Thats hard to do.

[HellishFiend]

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...


Also, the Catalyst said that Shepard was "the first organic ever" to set foot on that part of the station. Makes one wonder about dudes/squids/sentient slinkies in spacesuits but that's what Starbrat said.

Dont get me started... If he's the first organic ever, why is there organic tech and writing there? Control pedestals designed for organic use? A tube specifically designed to be penetrable by small arms fire that causes some kind of chain reaction? On the exterior of the Citadel? Really?

Plus, it means the Catalyst himself is a machine, so I should probably not listen to him, since we all know machines will always turn on organics.

He screws himself over with his own logic. Thats hard to do.

Yes, I have believed from the start that from a literary standpoint, the Catalyst/Starbrat's logic was intentionally written to be bad and have as many holes and contradictions as possible. That level of logical ineptitude shouldnt happen by accident.