57139 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

Wasn't that Joker who asked if Shep is sure he got out? ^^

"There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it."
This would even further fuel the other plane / phased out / shifted theory of the guardian saying no organic ever came to that place with Shep the first organic being there.
Implications... interesting.

[balance5050]

Dracorequiem wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

Actually its Joker who says that. EDI claims it is the real world.

Joker then says that if an AI based on Reaper tech assures you that you're in the real world then you clearly have no reason to worry.

EDI sure puts up with a lot of crap from Joker.

That allusion jumped out at me HARD. I knew that the consensus mission was important to the end right then and there.

Yeah I remember thinking "Wow, this seems like the writers are really trying to hit me over the head with something, here." I guess part of it was the metahumor of Shep being in a video game, but still I'd like to think there was more to it.

If you combine it with the "END OF THE MATRIX" bit on that page from the Final Hours app, it really screams out that the ending may not be real.

[Domanese]

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

RaenImrahl wrote...

Discussion of the "Twilight" books belongs in the off-topic forum. Let's get this thread back *on* topic, please.

Hah, apparently Twilight is the one off-topic discussion we've had that was so horrendous it required a mod to intervene!

Yeah, when she says "Would you even know if you were being controlled?" I instantly thought foreshadowing.

All that because I put a motivational poster up. It's amazing what a single motivational poster can cause.

[MegumiAzusa]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Dracorequiem wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

Actually its Joker who says that. EDI claims it is the real world.

Joker then says that if an AI based on Reaper tech assures you that you're in the real world then you clearly have no reason to worry.

EDI sure puts up with a lot of crap from Joker.

That allusion jumped out at me HARD. I knew that the consensus mission was important to the end right then and there.

Yeah I remember thinking "Wow, this seems like the writers are really trying to hit me over the head with something, here." I guess part of it was the metahumor of Shep being in a video game, but still I'd like to think there was more to it.

I saw it just as breaking the 4th wall joke. The only way it would have been more apparent is if they all turned to stare at the camera while they spoke that line.

In all of the Dragon Age games you can always find two people talking if they are maybe some characters in someones story, in DA2 even saying that they feel stuff got easier. Just hilarious to hear ^^
This one was more of a standard joke with virtual environments though.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 27 avril 2012 - 03:13 .

[Auralius Carolus]

HellishFiend wrote...

*thoughtfully strokes beard*

I dare say this might be an even more satisfying truth than "Reapers gonna Reap"

I'm calling BS. Each time the Reapers get cocky and claim to be unstoppable, Shepard blows one up. I say that they just have a god mentality and like to blow smoke.

[Dracorequiem]

Golferguy758 wrote...

I saw it just as breaking the 4th wall joke. The only way it would have been more apparent is if they all turned to stare at the camera while they spoke that line.

Hold on, just got an amazing idea. What if they were breaking the 4th wall as a clue?!? The true force controlling the Reapers isn't Starchild, it's the Writing Team. But Shepard's indoctrinated by them, (being written by them) and the Reapers are still at large!

So the only way to truly save the galaxy is to battle the TRUE foe. By the Retake ME movement.

Yep, this is definitely, exactly what was planned aaalllllllll along.

[Simon_Says]

HellishFiend wrote...

*thoughtfully strokes beard*

I dare say this might be an even more satisfying truth than "Reapers gonna Reap"

Forget it, I'm rolling.

Harbinger.

"Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater." (Infinitely is a huge hyperbole, isn't it.)

"That which you know as reapers are your salvation through destruction." (Reapers are now referenced in third person now?)

"(You are) dust struggling against the cosmic winds." (Cosmic. Winds.)

"Your greatest leaders will beg to serve us." (Again, us. Despite "that which you know as reapers")


Randolf the Reaper on Rannoch

"The cycle must continue." (Otherwise the Cosmic Imperative suffers maybe?)

"It is not a thing you can comprehend." (Eeeyup.)

"You represent chaos. We represent order." (Shepard represent chaos. The Cosmic Imperative represents order.)

"Every organic civilization must be harvested to bring order to the chaos." (Thought must be harvested for the mind to continue.)

"Without our intervention, organics are doomed. We are your salvation." "You're killing everyone in the galaxy to save us?" "The cycle MUST continue! There is no alternative!"

"Finish your war. We will be waiting." (Well he certainly wouldn't. So who?)

[Golferguy758]

balance5050 wrote...

Dracorequiem wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

Actually its Joker who says that. EDI claims it is the real world.

Joker then says that if an AI based on Reaper tech assures you that you're in the real world then you clearly have no reason to worry.

EDI sure puts up with a lot of crap from Joker.

That allusion jumped out at me HARD. I knew that the consensus mission was important to the end right then and there.

Yeah I remember thinking "Wow, this seems like the writers are really trying to hit me over the head with something, here." I guess part of it was the metahumor of Shep being in a video game, but still I'd like to think there was more to it.

If you combine it with the "END OF THE MATRIX" bit on that page from the Final Hours app, it really screams out that the ending may not be real.

Problem with the "End of the Matrix" line is that it could be referring to the end of the 3rd matrix. Y'know, the one where Neo sacrificed himself to ensure peace between humans and the robots? Seems similar to Synthesis in a way. Both coming to a peaceful solution through the sacrifice of one.

[byne]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Problem with the "End of the Matrix" line is that it could be referring to the end of the 3rd matrix. Y'know, the one where Neo sacrificed himself to ensure peace between humans and the robots? Seems similar to Synthesis in a way. Both coming to a peaceful solution through the sacrifice of one.

End of first Matrix.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Dracorequiem wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

Actually its Joker who says that. EDI claims it is the real world.

Joker then says that if an AI based on Reaper tech assures you that you're in the real world then you clearly have no reason to worry.

EDI sure puts up with a lot of crap from Joker.

That allusion jumped out at me HARD. I knew that the consensus mission was important to the end right then and there.

Yeah I remember thinking "Wow, this seems like the writers are really trying to hit me over the head with something, here." I guess part of it was the metahumor of Shep being in a video game, but still I'd like to think there was more to it.

I'm pretty sure that was just a random funny comment from Joker, without much significance, "How do you know everything you're seeing now (A VIDEO GAME) isn't just a simulation??"

Then again Bioware did put some "connect the dot" dialogue in the game. The whole thing with the Asari in the hospital and Hilary being one.

[balance5050]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Problem with the "End of the Matrix" line is that it could be referring to the end of the 3rd matrix. Y'know, the one where Neo sacrificed himself to ensure peace between humans and the robots? Seems similar to Synthesis in a way. Both coming to a peaceful solution through the sacrifice of one.

Well I certainly hope it was the first one, where Neo gets shot and dies, but then realizes that it was just in the matrix and the rules can be bent/broken.

[HellishFiend]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

It's not encapsulated at all... The encapsulation you speak of is actually the Crucible. If it werent there, that would be completely open space. 

And how do you figure the catalyst cant manipulate objects? The bridges at the end were clearly raised by him. They didnt raise themselves. Neither did the "evilator", for that matter. 

The Crucible is there, but there has to be an environmentally suitable containment zone there for Shepard to exist. The base consideration is that there is some sort of field around this part of the Citadel. That is UNLESS the entire thing isn't real, but a dream. Is there proof for this, in this scenario? Maybe- if no organic has ever set foot there, how is it that the Crucible is specifically designed to interact with that part of the Citadel? It is possible that engineers could have used theoretical schematics of the Citadel, but highly unlikely if the opportunity arose to investigate personally to take measurements.

As to object manipulation, the Catalyst is either extremely limited or unable. If it had been able to, it is logical that the Catalyst would have simply over-ridden the Prothean alterations and opened up the Citadel Relay for the Reapers. As for the elivator and bridges, that's a big ????. Automation is possible, but that the Catalyst already is basically a huge logical fart, it's hard to say. He certainly claims that he can't affect the Reaper's and, as with the Control Panel, there are hints that biologicals are needed.

The problem is that the implications of the entire starchild sequence (his logical fallacies aside), including everything both you and I have mentioned, are all self-contradictory. You do a good job of pointing that out yourself in the first paragraph. This discussion originated from attempting to justify the face value context, which we obviously cant do. Even pro-enders cant, because their justifications are mistakes, oversights,  and bad writing on the part of the developers. 

[Golferguy758]

byne wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Problem with the "End of the Matrix" line is that it could be referring to the end of the 3rd matrix. Y'know, the one where Neo sacrificed himself to ensure peace between humans and the robots? Seems similar to Synthesis in a way. Both coming to a peaceful solution through the sacrifice of one.

End of first Matrix.

That works. I couldn't remember if it was End of the Matrix or End of the first Matrix. Don't have the app to check.

[Auralius Carolus]

Simon_Says wrote...

"The cycle MUST continue! There is no alternative!"

Bob the Angry Asian says otherwise.

[Dracorequiem]

byne wrote...

End of first Matrix.

HMMMMMMMM how interesting

[byne]

Golferguy758 wrote...

byne wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Problem with the "End of the Matrix" line is that it could be referring to the end of the 3rd matrix. Y'know, the one where Neo sacrificed himself to ensure peace between humans and the robots? Seems similar to Synthesis in a way. Both coming to a peaceful solution through the sacrifice of one.

End of first Matrix.

That works. I couldn't remember if it was End of the Matrix or End of the first Matrix. Don't have the app to check.

Also, I like #5 from this list.

If they were taking inspiration from the Matrix movies, its not too far-fetched to assume they'd have taken inspiration from fan theories as well.

Plus it describes why I like IT perfectly in that entry: "The theory keeps the sci-fi film sci-fi and not heavy-handed messianic fantasy"

[Simon_Says]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

*thoughtfully strokes beard*

I dare say this might be an even more satisfying truth than "Reapers gonna Reap"

I'mcalling BS. Each time the Reapers get cocky and claim to be unstoppable, Shepard blows one up. I say that they just have a god mentality and like to blow smoke.

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

"The cycle MUST continue! There is no alternative!"

Bob the Angry Asian says otherwise.

I'm not claiming what the reapers say is true or even well founded.

I just think it'd be totally in character for a race of super-advanced machines that think themselves the hands and voice of the Cosmic Imperative (which may or not be real) would totally believe it and trash talk about it.

I'm just throwing an idea I've just had under the effects of booze at the wall here.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 27 avril 2012 - 03:25 .

[HellishFiend]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

*thoughtfully strokes beard*

I dare say this might be an even more satisfying truth than "Reapers gonna Reap"

I'm calling BS. Each time the Reapers get cocky and claim to be unstoppable, Shepard blows one up. I say that they just have a god mentality and like to blow smoke.

Are white blood cells indestructible? Do biological immune systems not have flaws? Are thought processes infallible? Can mistakes not be made on all levels of decision making and awareness? If the Reapers were a physical manifestation of a cosmic imperative or some kind of "grand consciousness/sentience" of the universe or galaxy itself, that does not imply that it's manifestations or even its thought processes are infallible. 

[Auralius Carolus]

HellishFiend wrote...

The problem is that the implications of the entire starchild sequence (his logical fallacies aside), including everything both you and I have mentioned, are all self-contradictory. You do a good job of pointing that out yourself in the first paragraph. This discussion originated from attempting to justify the face value context, which we obviously cant do. Even pro-enders cant, because their justifications are mistakes, oversights,  and bad writing on the part of the developers. 

Which is the difference between us and them. We tend to be analytical, creative, and willing to believe that others- in this case the designers- are capable of sharing those traits with us.

[Dracorequiem]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

The problem is that the implications of the entire starchild sequence (his logical fallacies aside), including everything both you and I have mentioned, are all self-contradictory. You do a good job of pointing that out yourself in the first paragraph. This discussion originated from attempting to justify the face value context, which we obviously cant do. Even pro-enders cant, because their justifications are mistakes, oversights,  and bad writing on the part of the developers. 

Which is the difference between us and them. We tend to be analytical, creative, and willing to believe that others- in this case the designers- are capable of sharing those traits with us.

I think what really defines IT supporters is our faith in the competency of the writing staff. We see all these horrible mistakes and think... this is so bad it HAS to be done on purpose.

[HellishFiend]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

The problem is that the implications of the entire starchild sequence (his logical fallacies aside), including everything both you and I have mentioned, are all self-contradictory. You do a good job of pointing that out yourself in the first paragraph. This discussion originated from attempting to justify the face value context, which we obviously cant do. Even pro-enders cant, because their justifications are mistakes, oversights,  and bad writing on the part of the developers. 

Which is the difference between us and them. We tend to be analytical, creative, and willing to believe that others- in this case the designers- are capable of sharing those traits with us.

I dont like to generalize, but yes, a lack of belief does seem to be a common trait among the opposing camp. 

[Auralius Carolus]

HellishFiend wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

*thoughtfully strokes beard*

I dare say this might be an even more satisfying truth than "Reapers gonna Reap"

I'm calling BS. Each time the Reapers get cocky and claim to be unstoppable, Shepard blows one up. I say that they just have a god mentality and like to blow smoke.

Are white blood cells indestructible? Do biological immune systems not have flaws? Are thought processes infallible? Can mistakes not be made on all levels of decision making and awareness? If the Reapers were a physical manifestation of a cosmic imperative or some kind of "grand consciousness/sentience" of the universe or galaxy itself, that does not imply that it's manifestations or even its thought processes are infallible. 

The very fact that they are needed suggests fallibility, assuming that they really are needed at all. My personal take? Just like the Rachni Wars and the Geth outbreaks, the Reapers manufacture their conditions. 

[Golferguy758]

 Quoting the end of the first matrix here: Will put in italics what I think would be relevant to ME3's ending.

Neo : I know you're out there...I can feel you now. I know that  you're afraid. You're afraid of us, you're afraid of change...

Change could relate to how the galaxy is united and fighting back against the reapers. It's a large change and while the reapers may not admit to fearing the combined might of the galaxy, it's more than likely a concern. Hence why it'd be important to indictrinate Shepard. To destroy the will and hope of the galaxy
I don't know the future...I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end, I came here to tell you how this is going to begin.

In direct reference to ME3's ending. We don't have a definitive conclusion to the story. All the endings CAN be taken literally as much as it pains me to admit it. All of them show a new beginning free of the reapers in one way or the other.

Now, I'm going to hang up this phone, and I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you...a world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world...where anything is possible.

Reapers don't believe Synthetics and organics can coexist. Synthesis shows a world where organics and synthetics can coexists (EDI + Joker, Quarians and Geth working together) In all the endings it turns into a "world" without the reapers as a threat to galactic life. Second part, without borders or boundaries, can reference to Synthesis. There are no more boundaries between organics and synthetics. no more artificial boundaries separating the two "populations"

We travel down a phone line, as we see that Neo is in a phone box.
Neo : Where we go from there...is a choice I leave to you...

Future is ours to make, whether or not Earth is destroyed in the process. galactic life stands at the point where how it evolves and grows will be directly due to the choices they make. Assuming Neo = Shepard. Synthesis and Control both end up leaving the choice in how to move on to everyone else other than himself.

Neo hangs up the phone, as he steps out of the phone booth, and puts on his sunglasses.
{edit to put in a picture because I had to use it}

YEAAAAAHHHHHH



He looks around the street for a moment, and then flies off. 

Modifié par Golferguy758, 27 avril 2012 - 03:37 .

[MegumiAzusa]

@Golferguy758 the sunglasses made Neo about 20% cooler.

[byne]

Oh GolferGuy, I respected you so much before you went and added a MLP picture.

Now I dont even know what to think about you