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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#45526
Simon_Says

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paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

You're joking. I couldn't play this game for more than 20 minutes. And then it landed deep in a trash can.


I... feel sorry for you.


Please don't.


I can actually sympthatize. Both Witcher games do have that annoyingly high bar to entry. The first game had a tediously long prologue and first act (took me three tries before I managed to make it through them without quitting in boredom). And the second kicks your ass relentlessly. The reward for it is worth it though. Witcher 1 had what I thought was the most clever ending to a game I've ever seen. A really, really good example of The End Changes Everything.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 27 avril 2012 - 05:23 .


#45527
estebanus

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pirate1802 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

See? end justifies the means= renegade

Hell, paragon Shepard was pretty sceptic about using Maelons data, even though it ended up saving Bakara's life!


I mean a renegade Shep would be OK with geth and EDI dying in destroy ending because the end justifies the means.



Exactly, synthesis is supposed to appeal to paragon players.

Control is supposed to appeal to renegade players

Destroy appeals to both groups!

To Paragons, it would be appealing because you finally complete what you and your friends set out to do 3 years ago.

To renegades, it appeals because you still win, although it's at a high cost!

#45528
Tirian Thorn

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https://www.google.c...s=0&q=zerg rush


LMAO!!! Fun Stuff

Modifié par Tirian Thorn, 27 avril 2012 - 05:27 .


#45529
Pascal219

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Just finished my fifth playthrough, the more I think about it the more this makes sense. Unless they wanted to make Harbinger dumb.

I took a slow casual walk to the beam and Harbinger hits every vehicle and person with pinpoint precision. He knows who is where and just obliterates them. But all of sudden he's going to hit and miss Shepard? Why? That makes no sense. Or did Shepard survive because of the magical armor of doom? Makes no sense either.

So Shepard survived, Harbinger has to know he's (still) there. He detected everyone else easily enough. So why didn't he kill Shepard and why fly off after leaving him to survive? So he could meet Godchild?

I think it's because Bioware wants us to believe we were lucky enough to survive and complete our indoctrination. When you run to the beam you don't notice Harbingers accuracy. You just see things blow up!

Either it's evidence or it's another plot hole.

#45530
Simon_Says

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Why are we even arguing over the morality of the endings? Taken at face value...

Control is unhelpfully ambiguous and suspect.
Destroy is unhelpfully ambiguous and costly.
And Synthesis is patently retarded.

Paragon/Renegade doesn't factor into this.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 27 avril 2012 - 05:28 .


#45531
balance5050

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Simon_Says wrote...

Why are we even arguing over the morality of the endings? Taken at face value...

Control is unhelpfully ambiguous and suspect.
Destroy is unhelpfully ambiguous and costly.
And Synthesis is patently retarded.

Paragon/Renegade doesn't factor into this.


Except fo r the big blue and red lights highlighting your choices for you, but yeah I know what you're saying, Paragon and renegade have no bearing on this decision.

#45532
estebanus

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Well, all this talk about Witcher 2 makes want to play the game, So I'll be off.

See you later!

#45533
paxxton

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Simon_Says wrote...

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

You're joking. I couldn't play this game for more than 20 minutes. And then it landed deep in a trash can.


I... feel sorry for you.


Please don't.


I can actually sympthatize. Both Witcher games do have that annoyingly high bar to entry. The first game had a tediously long prologue and first act (took me three tries before I managed to make it through them without quitting in boredom). And the second kicks your ass relentlessly. The reward for it is worth it though. Witcher 1 had what I thought was the most clever ending to a game I've ever seen. A really, really good example of The End Changes Everything.


The Witcher franchise has a single issue: medieval setting.

Modifié par paxxton, 27 avril 2012 - 05:38 .


#45534
balance5050

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estebanus wrote...

Well, all this talk about Witcher 2 makes want to play the game, So I'll be off.

See you later!


HAHA! I think I'm gonna go do that to now!

#45535
Uncle Jo

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Rifneno wrote...

Thanks, right back atcha. :)
I'm not sure they did have a totalitarian government actually. Though the fact they'll execute you for playing a game of cards doesn't bode well for them, of course. Anyway, actually it's the opposite. I'm not going to judge the entire
Prothean civilization over one person. He could be passing off his own idiocy as his entire race's. If an <insert color here> supremacist was the only human left alive, do you think they'd be honestand say the rest of their species thought they were a raving lunatic? Or perhaps he was raised by
raving lunatic. Or Prothean society only became one of raving lunacy after the Reaper invasion. There's any number of reasons. But I can judge him alone on his actions. And I do. I seriously doubt there's any de-fascisting him. It's a written work, so if we're not presented with an option then for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist.
While the ME series is likely to continue, it's highly unlikely we'll see much more of Javik. And really, since we don't even get any dialogue options to try and reason with him that he's just plain wrong and his society was just plain wrong, I can't imagine it is or ever was on the writer's table..

I wrote...

Maybe not. I've used the wrong word, maybe even the wrong concept. Imperialism would be more accurate then. Which still implies the submission to one leader with more or less freedom of opinion and a pretty strict hierarchy, schooling and control of the opinion (the Empire wouldn't have last long otherwise with so many submitted different races). Remember the quote "their sacrifice will be honored in the next empire": the individual disappears for the benefit of the multitude... And they never hesitated to sacrifice cold-heartly many others worlds in order to buy time... Submission, rule of the strongest, no other alternative than join the Empire, even if it's not totalitarian it still seems pretty close to it.
But you're right, these are only assumptions that probably will never be proved... It's just my take, but between having Grunt/Legion/Samara/Thane/Jack or Javik as squadmate, my choice'd be really fast done...

And still good to have feedback from you :)


Unschuld wrote...


I could actually care less, to be honest. For me it would be on the same level as ME2 being sold with Arrival as separate content (which was, essentially, the final act of ME2. Too bad the bridge they intended to create to ME3 needs some repairs). Despite the principal of selling an "incomplete game", I'd personally see the cliffhanger and ambiguously confusing ending to be brilliant in that it hoodwinked so many fans. That's just me, though. I like mind games, and I like symbolism/metaphor. Obviously, there's a lot of pissed off people out there that don't like clever ruses and want everything presented to them at face value, fully complete 100% of the time.

This is of course assuming that the EC actually explains the current endings well, or if IT turns out to be valid. I'm all for personal interpretation to fill in some blanks, but it only goes so far.


I have actually to point out that ME2 was sold at first without Arrival (I've bought it like that) and still was complete because the final act was the destruction/salvation of the collector base. Arrival is more the bridge between ME2 and ME3.
A cliffhanger for a stand-alone or even ME2 yeah, why not... But for the conclusion of a trilogy, I seriously doubt it... Not after all that they said with the "all your questions will find an answer".. And it has nothing to do with being proender or not.
I personnaly don't buy the face-value ending and if the IT were to be true, God I'll be happy.

IMO what happened with the ME3 ending will be an exception. Even if you want to make your fans debate, you don't have to stretch it that far. It's a dangerous business, and I don't think people will always buy a game while they know the ending/closure is still coming...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 27 avril 2012 - 06:00 .


#45536
Simon_Says

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paxxton wrote...

The Witcher franchise has a single issue: Medieval setting.


Posted Image

You are the very embodiment of Poe's Law.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 27 avril 2012 - 05:41 .


#45537
lex0r11

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Alright people, no hating on opinions now. To each his own.

There sure are people who can't deal with sci-fi.

EDIT

notice the similarities?

Posted Image

Modifié par lex0r11, 27 avril 2012 - 05:43 .


#45538
Sero303

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lex0r11 wrote...

Alright people, no hating on opinions now. To each his own.

There sure are people who can't deal with sci-fi.


Yea and those are the ones to blame for the fall of "sci-fi" and if you want to sit there and argue that there is no such thing, I challenge you to turn on "sy-fy" these days and argue with that.

#45539
Simon_Says

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That's because the sy-fy syphilis channel doesn't actually air speculative fiction, let alone science fiction anymore. In any case, speculative fiction has always sort of been in it's own ghetto in the public eye. At least until very, very recently.

It's one thing to not like something. It's another to claim to throw it in the trash because of it despite, y'know, the frelling cover. What did he think it was going to be? Paxxton has just done the very same thing as the Starchild: state something that raises so many questions that won't be answered that it's too hard not to go "wtf?" and not take it seriously.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 27 avril 2012 - 05:52 .


#45540
paxxton

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Simon_Says wrote...

Paxxton has just done the very same thing as the Starchild: state something that raises so many questions that won't be answered that it's too hard not to go "wtf?" and not take it seriously.


I'm flattered. Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 27 avril 2012 - 06:00 .


#45541
byne

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I got bored of Witcher 2 and stopped playing after collecting something (mucus maybe? idk) that will apparently help me fight some monster in the river. I never actually fought the monster.

Does the game pick up from that point, or no?

#45542
Simon_Says

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byne wrote...

I got bored of Witcher 2 and stopped playing after collecting something (mucus maybe? idk) that will apparently help me fight some monster in the river. I never actually fought the monster.

Does the game pick up from that point, or no?

Oh yes it very much does.

Fighting the actual monster is a blast. And then the game only gets better from there. Get to it!

paxxton wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

Paxxton
has just done the very same thing as the Starchild: state something
that raises so many questions that won't be answered that it's too hard
not to go "wtf?" and not take it seriously.

I'm flattered. Posted Image


I'm not trying to disparage you or anything. I can respect that you don't like something. It's just that, well, don't expect to go onto a gaming forum, say you don't like medeival fantasy and expect people not to react puzzled and incredulous. :P

Modifié par Simon_Says, 27 avril 2012 - 05:59 .


#45543
balance5050

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byne wrote...

I got bored of Witcher 2 and stopped playing after collecting something (mucus maybe? idk) that will apparently help me fight some monster in the river. I never actually fought the monster.

Does the game pick up from that point, or no?


The river monster fight is fun, if not challenging. It definitly picks up after that fight, big things start happening..

#45544
llbountyhunter

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byne wrote...

I got bored of Witcher 2 and stopped playing after collecting something (mucus maybe? idk) that will apparently help me fight some monster in the river. I never actually fought the monster.

Does the game pick up from that point, or no?


I know how it feels... I confess I stoped played me1 for awhile after dying several times and having to redo a 5 hour long mako drive....

#45545
byne

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llbountyhunter wrote...

byne wrote...

I got bored of Witcher 2 and stopped playing after collecting something (mucus maybe? idk) that will apparently help me fight some monster in the river. I never actually fought the monster.

Does the game pick up from that point, or no?


I know how it feels... I confess I stoped played me1 for awhile after dying several times and having to redo a 5 hour long mako drive....


Man, where were you that you had a 5 hour long Mako drive?

#45546
Sero303

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byne wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

byne wrote...

I got bored of Witcher 2 and stopped playing after collecting something (mucus maybe? idk) that will apparently help me fight some monster in the river. I never actually fought the monster.

Does the game pick up from that point, or no?


I know how it feels... I confess I stoped played me1 for awhile after dying several times and having to redo a 5 hour long mako drive....


Man, where were you that you had a 5 hour long Mako drive?


Seriously, were you stoned or something?

#45547
Simon_Says

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byne wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

byne wrote...

I got bored of Witcher 2 and stopped playing after collecting something (mucus maybe? idk) that will apparently help me fight some monster in the river. I never actually fought the monster.

Does the game pick up from that point, or no?


I know how it feels... I confess I stoped played me1 for awhile after dying several times and having to redo a 5 hour long mako drive....


Man, where were you that you had a 5 hour long Mako drive?

Well, there was this one time my mako flipped out and started flinging itself through the sky nonstop. Couldn't load, couldn't exit, couldn't recall back to Normandy. I just sat and watched it happen for like 20 minutes in a confused mix of awe, terror, confusion and laughter.

Fun times.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 27 avril 2012 - 06:01 .


#45548
llbountyhunter

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Sero303 wrote...

byne wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

byne wrote...

I got bored of Witcher 2 and stopped playing after collecting something (mucus maybe? idk) that will apparently help me fight some monster in the river. I never actually fought the monster.

Does the game pick up from that point, or no?


I know how it feels... I confess I stoped played me1 for awhile after dying several times and having to redo a 5 hour long mako drive....


Man, where were you that you had a 5 hour long Mako drive?


Seriously, were you stoned or something?



hyperbole...... <_<

#45549
Sammuthegreat

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Sero303 wrote...

byne wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

byne wrote...

I got bored of Witcher 2 and stopped playing after collecting something (mucus maybe? idk) that will apparently help me fight some monster in the river. I never actually fought the monster.

Does the game pick up from that point, or no?


I know how it feels... I confess I stoped played me1 for awhile after dying several times and having to redo a 5 hour long mako drive....


Man, where were you that you had a 5 hour long Mako drive?


Seriously, were you stoned or something?


In fairness, the Autosave function in ME1 was absolutely abysmal, on Xbox at least. But still, 5 hours does seem rather excessive. Unless the engine broke down and he had to get Wrex to push the Mako.

#45550
paxxton

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Simon_Says wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

Paxxton
has just done the very same thing as the Starchild: state something
that raises so many questions that won't be answered that it's too hard
not to go "wtf?" and not take it seriously.

I'm flattered. Posted Image


I'm not trying to disparage you or anything. I can respect that you don't like something. It's just that, well, don't expect to go onto a gaming forum, say you don't like medeival fantasy and expect people not to react puzzled and incredulous. :P


I don't expect anything. It's just my opinion.

Modifié par paxxton, 27 avril 2012 - 06:08 .