57139 réponses à ce sujet

[tuzem2]

removed it..

Modifié par tuzem2, 12 mars 2012 - 05:47 .

[k8ee]

Check it out guys, our theorycrafting is getting noticed (discussed on second page of article):
link

[Erethrian]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

The amount of faith and belief in this theory is staggering to be honest. I've never seen straw grasping that literally suggesting any developer would leave the ending out of the game and then go "Haha, here's the real ending 3 months later" without prior warning. It's bad business and the reaction would be huge. What about players who don't connect their consoles to the internet for various reasons? No ending for them unless they want to buy a hard disc (would not be free, production costs).

As much as I'd like a better ending under the very slim chance this turned out to be true I'd have to do my first developer boycott. I can't support practices like that.

And let's not forget the scene with the grandfather/child plays in every single ending which implies very heavily the reapers are defeated or turned away in every single ending.

It's 2012.  Cannibals clad in loin cloths living in the Brazilian rainforests have streaming Netflix accounts that they use to watch Law & Order when they're preparing a sacrifice to the sun so it won't get angry.  I don't know about the console versions but the PC version states in bold print that you must have Internet.  I'm not saying that's proof of any DLC, Dragon Age 2 had the same thing and, like ME3, it was because the game would phone home and make sure the release date had passed.  I don't know if console versions do the same.  Doesn't matter I suppose, because it's mostly a legal issue and legally people ARE getting the game even if there's a twist to be delivered via DLC.

Heaven forbid they try something bold and give us a good twist by giving us all these subtle clues and letting us stew over it for a week or two.  People have always complained that the PC doesn't deal with things like indoctrination or demonic coercion in Dragon Age.  And the reason the PC is always "immune" to those things is because there's no good way to emulate them in a video game.  This, however, would be an excellent way of attempting it.  If we pick the wrong choice and it gives us a "game over" screen then we just reload and pick the right one.  No biggie and it's forgotten about in 5 seconds.  If they do it this way, and we think it's real only for them to tell us in a while "here's the rest of it, and anyone whose Shepard didn't pick destroy lost the battle of will to indoctrination" then it has some impact.  Granted it's still the same in the end: we go back and pick the right option, but now we get a much better experience of what it's like to fight off the indoctrination than simply picking "(Fight off indoctrination)" from a command menu.

It would be the most brilliant stunt a video game developer could ever pull if true and executed correctly. The devs have been strangely silent on their twitters the past couple of days and from what I've seen, not even active on the forum. This just doesn't feel right if they were just gonna go 'here's the end, hope you enjoyed cause we don't care'

Something is brewing and they're letting the fanbase stew. Everyday more and more people complete the game and jon the masses in either theorycrafting or raging. There's no way they couldn't have had some sort of prediction of the fanbase's reaction on this.

Agree, something's going on. I still have faith!

[rogueagent6]

I REALLY think everyone should go back and read the Indoctrination section under Reaper Capabilities in the secondary codex. I posted a direct quote three pages ago, but it's already been buried. Everything Shepard experiences in those final moments is explained there. The Reapers are attempting to indoctrinate you, there is no other explanation. Those final moments are you fighting for your mind.

Edit: Sorry, three pages back.

Modifié par rogueagent6, 12 mars 2012 - 05:29 .

[3Minotaur3]

Mr. Mistake wrote...

3Minotaur3 wrote...

Mr. Mistake wrote...

"Lost", anyone?

I'm beginning to... Where are the Star Wars and Lords of the Rings endings gone?...

I lost you, man, sorry.

But if your point is what I think your point is...

I just have to say that we have come such a long way since Mass Effect (the first one) that they wouldn't end this epic trilogy in such a (less disappointing than) nonsensical way.

I think Stephen King's The Dark Tower had the best ending ever. I don't see why BioWare couldn't pull off something as epic.

You got all right...  Except I didn't see SK Dark Tower, so I can tell of its Epic-ness...

[Dessalines]

Okay, I just want to state this is not about Shep not making it out alive. I think we all played games in which you die at the end. Fallout 3, you die at the end. I was happy with that being the end of the hero from the Vault. Dragon Age, I know a lot of people that picked the ultimate sacrifice ending. When you made the ultimate sacrifice in Dragon Age, they told you what happen to everyone. It is the same company, so I do not understand why they can't have a better summary. Honestly, I do not see anyone wanting to buy a dlc of the continued adventures that take place before you end up as Reaper, Synthesis, dead, or in some rubble gasping for air. it is lthe lack of closure..

[Faceless Minion]

I certainly hope that the ending is a hallucination...

Not for Shephard, mind you. I hope that I've been slipped some LSD or something.

[Golferguy758]

Getting really annoyed. Everything that happens after harbinger beam is an illusion. The scene with the stargazer can be explained as a planet that was seeded by laiaa with the boxes. They don't have to be human and we know that there are non space faring species. I.e yahg. They found the box and passed the story on

[MissMaster_2]

Sajuro wrote...

tuzem2 wrote...

wryterra wrote...

tuzem2 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

The idea of the indoctrination is that he is being lied to and made to think he's doing the right thing. Both Saren and TIM wanted what they felt was best. Just imagine them in that room faced with the same choices Shepard has. TIM chose control, Saren chose synthesis. destruction was the only that didntnseem to pray on sheps insecurity about being able to save everyone, which the star child's image was ment to convey

Destroy kills the Geth and EDI. Why would this be a good ending?

Sacrifices. All the way through the game we've seen characters making sacrifices. No one said it had to be a pure victory but that's the point, that's the false-choice the indoctrination gives you.

The catalyst CAN destroy synthetic life but it destroys *synthetic life*, you must sacrifice. Or you can compromise, in which case the Reapers win, but don't they just make compromise sound like the better bet?

Yeah but all that interaction between the Quarian and the Geth. Their progress. Legion sacraficed himself to basically save the Geth. Mordin sacraficed himself to save the Krogan. Shepard should sacrafice himself to save all civilization, not just the organics.

Both the Geth and EDI were willing to die to stop the Reapers, I wish they didn't have to die but I felt the sacrifice was well worth it to give organics a chance.

Yeah but with this we are going on what the Starchild told us, I think he only said that to make us think about not picking Destroy. We never saw EDI or the Geth die.

[Pyewacket]

RABicle wrote...

Elendstourist wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

RABicle wrote...

Sheperd died running towards the beam. They all did. The reapers won.

Everything from Sheperd's death onwards is told by the Stargazer to the child. They're people of the next cycle who know of Sheperd's legend through Liara's time capsules. They assume Sheperd defeated the Reapers because they are alive and everything is peaceful.

... that makes terrifyingly much sense...

How would he be alive and breathing then?

Eh, I didn't actually get the wake up buried in rubble bit in my game. Went in with just 3000 in war assets. If anything waking up in London shows that Sheperd never went to the Citadel.

Anyway, considering Sheperd's injuries and the scale of destruction, it's unlikely she was ever found or recovered. Sheperd's dead nomatter the ending you choose. The Reapers won, because they had to.

Uh, I'm going to respectfully disagree there, because if I recall, Shephard in the last game started out as burned up meat and tubes.  Not to mention that Shephard is now part synthetic.  If the writers want him/her to be alive, it's not gonna be all that difficult to make happen.  Besides, I don't really see them giving you a "best" ending where Shepard starts breathing in rubble and then dies soon after because no one finds him/her.

Although that would be an impressive kick to the balls, wouldn't it?

[blah64]

If it was a hallucination (and I sure hope so) then it has the potential to be a good ending.

[jackncoke28]

jackncoke28 wrote...

Terraforming2154 wrote...

tuzem2 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

The idea of the indoctrination is that he is being lied to and made to think he's doing the right thing. Both Saren and TIM wanted what they felt was best. Just imagine them in that room faced with the same choices Shepard has. TIM chose control, Saren chose synthesis. destruction was the only that didntnseem to pray on sheps insecurity about being able to save everyone, which the star child's image was ment to convey

Destroy kills the Geth and EDI. Why would this be a good ending?

Honestly, I feel like the concept of sacrifice was played up more in this game than in the others.

Garrus mentions sacrifice twice - in one conversation when you first get him on ship, he suggests that humans want to save everyone and it might not be a possibility. He also dances around it as well after the VS stands opposed to Udina (he asks if you would have shot them if they hadn't).
Also, Javik has a very profound comment when Shep says she thinks she can win the war with honor intact. He says, "stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honour matters. The silence is your answer."

Of course this all may mean nothing, but I don't remember the other games pushing concepts like that at me before.

I think one of the bigest things being played up also is sheps inability to save everyone, people are dying all around him. The symbol of this is the child who sez to shep that he cant save him, the fact that the catalyst is using that child's image tells me that he is trying to play up that insecurity, forcing shepard to make the choice that sacrifices the least amount of people, regardless of the fact that the reapers will remain

Also to add to this i noticed for example that in the nightmares shep has after mordin sacrifices himself you can hear mordin's voice, playing up the fact that shep not being able to save the people he loves is getting to him

[Golferguy758]

Also excuse the typos. Writing on my phone while at work

[Erethrian]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Milvushina wrote...

DangerSandler wrote...

Shepard DID have issues with indoctrination though. Remember after Arrival? He said that he was having nightmares/dreams/visions.

Was that only in the Arrival DLC?  I didn't play that one ...   :

My only problem with Arrival is the fact that not everyone, myself included, actually have played it yet, so headcanon for people using the indoctrination theory would be varied. Some Shepards would be more exposed to indoctrination than others.

Wrong, as said in the "Official ME3 guides" what happens on the DLCs The Lair of the Shadow Broker and Arrival takes place even if you didn't play the DLC on ME2, just off screen. So your Shepard did Arrival, just without you watching him/her. ;P

Modifié par Erethrian, 12 mars 2012 - 05:32 .

[3Minotaur3]

AM94 wrote...

The fact that the godchild looks exactly like the little boy in the beginning of the game, and doesnt even look like a VI that we've ever seen has to mean something.

Looks more like a hologram to me... A VI that brain-search Shepard for a significant picture to show him...

[WizenSlinky0]

adrianlocke647 wrote...

To counter Stargazer's scene is simple.

Liara approaches you for the sole reason of preparing "capsules" of information about the Reaper threat, and the war for survival. She includes extensive data on Shepard in this. Then, she spreads them over the galaxy.

Stargazer is in a pre-space flight civilization. Therefore, whatever planet he is on would almost definitely be involved in the next cycle, should Shepard fail. Since they are planet-bound, they have no way of knowing if it succeeded or not.

It makes just as much sense as the alternative; Shepard went up to the Crucible's true controls alone after Anderson died. Made the choice with no contact to anyone. There is no possible way anyone could know what happened up there unless Shepard survived. Therefore, Stargazer contradicts Synthesize, Control, and low-EMS Destroy more than he does the hallucination theory.

And if Stargazer *is* a descendant of the crashed Normandy? How would anyone there know what happened? Or that they even won...? Joker apparently ran for the relay or jumped to FTL to avoid the blast. If he's already running when the blast happens, it obviously doesn't look like a win to him. The last thing any of the crew could POSSIBLY know is that Shepard got hit by a giant laser while running towards the beam. That's assuming Joker somehow picked up your two squaddies and they didn't die.

There's no way that old man could have told such a detailed story with what was in that time capsule without making up huge swaths of it. Which kinda invalidates a lot of what you've done considering you no longer know what was real and what was some old guy going "AND THEN A GIANT THRESHER MAW ATE THE REAPER!" Which is even MORE unsatisfying than the ending we already have.

Uuugh.

[noobcannon]

wow so i got 8 hrs of sleep and i have 30+ new pages to read. let me get my coffee.

[Mr. Mistake]

Dessalines wrote...

Okay, I just want to state this is not about Shep not making it out alive. I think we all played games in which you die at the end. Fallout 3, you die at the end. I was happy with that being the end of the hero from the Vault. Dragon Age, I know a lot of people that picked the ultimate sacrifice ending. When you made the ultimate sacrifice in Dragon Age, they told you what happen to everyone. It is the same company, so I do not understand why they can't have a better summary. Honestly, I do not see anyone wanting to buy a dlc of the continued adventures that take place before you end up as Reaper, Synthesis, dead, or in some rubble gasping for air. it is lthe lack of closure..

There isn't a movie of it yet, it's still in book form. It's 7 books, and it's SK's Masterwork.

For the sake of staying on topic, I think a better ending would be if the Catalyst was Rick Astey and then the game minimized and your browser opened to the YouTube page of a 10 hour video of "Never Gonna Give You Up" on repeat.

Am I showing troll symptoms?

[Pyewacket]

3Minotaur3 wrote...

AM94 wrote...

The fact that the godchild looks exactly like the little boy in the beginning of the game, and doesnt even look like a VI that we've ever seen has to mean something.

Looks more like a hologram to me... A VI that brain-search Shepard for a significant picture to show him...

Uh, is brain-search a thing that VI's are known to do now?  I must have missed that.

Modifié par Pyewacket, 12 mars 2012 - 05:37 .

[Tashakov]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

There's no way that old man could have told such a detailed story with what was in that time capsule without making up huge swaths of it. Which kinda invalidates a lot of what you've done considering you no longer know what was real and what was some old guy going "AND THEN A GIANT THRESHER MAW ATE THE REAPER!" Which is even MORE unsatisfying than the ending we already have.

Uuugh.

Eh, if I had a say, I would rip the Stargazer scene off the disc with my bare hands, feed it to the dogs, and fire whoever came up with that awful little addendum to the story. It's like Dragon Age II, without the clever aspects. Would Stargazer *really* tell the child about how my Shepard made sweet, sweet love to Liara several times and then genocided the Rachni...?


But hey, you play the hand you're dealt. And Bioware gave me these horrid cards.

Modifié par adrianlocke647, 12 mars 2012 - 05:37 .

[PrivateFrost]

Dessalines wrote...

Okay, I just want to state this is not about Shep not making it out alive. I think we all played games in which you die at the end. Fallout 3, you die at the end. I was happy with that being the end of the hero from the Vault. Dragon Age, I know a lot of people that picked the ultimate sacrifice ending. When you made the ultimate sacrifice in Dragon Age, they told you what happen to everyone. It is the same company, so I do not understand why they can't have a better summary. Honestly, I do not see anyone wanting to buy a dlc of the continued adventures that take place before you end up as Reaper, Synthesis, dead, or in some rubble gasping for air. it is lthe lack of closure..

I'm kind of new here, so I just pressed the button to quote your post. 
At least in Fallout 3, Bethesda made Broken Steel, that allowed us to live again. Why can't Bioware do this?

[noobcannon]

tuzem2 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

The idea of the indoctrination is that he is being lied to and made to think he's doing the right thing. Both Saren and TIM wanted what they felt was best. Just imagine them in that room faced with the same choices Shepard has. TIM chose control, Saren chose synthesis. destruction was the only that didntnseem to pray on sheps insecurity about being able to save everyone, which the star child's image was ment to convey

Destroy kills the Geth and EDI. Why would this be a good ending?

if you're going with the hallucination theory, then you only believe 'destory' kills them becasue god-boy tells you it does. i for one think the god-boy is harbinger.

Modifié par noobcannon, 12 mars 2012 - 05:38 .

[Tom Jolly]

I kind of like the idea that elments of the Catalyst scene were an indoctrination-induced hallucination, and that the Reapers are trying to trick Shepard into preserving them.  In the end, I don't think that it is.but at the very LEAST, I like to think that SHEPARD is considering this as a possiblity... It makes the choice between the three solutions THAT much more difficult.  

[humes spork]

Lurchibald wrote...

Seroiusly? the whole point is that the Normandy shouldn't even be where it is, it (again) is part of the Alliance fleet and Both the crew and Admiral Hackett wouldn't run away.

Yes, it very well could be.

The Normandy is a stealth ship sufficiently advanced that unless it sends out "pings" can't be detected by the Reapers. Pay careful attention to what the Asari councillor talks about after Thessia -- continuity of civilization. That's important, considering the Normandy was one out of two ships seen in the trilogy that are actually capable of ensuring continuity of civilization (the quarian consulate ship being the other).

Remember what Liara said about the Normandy getting "lost in the stars" during the time capsule scene? That's also important.

It's logical that when Hammer failed, Hackett ordered the Normandy to evacuate as many personnel as possible and run -- go dark, find a habitable world far away from the relays, and colonize so somebody would survive the harvesting. Nobody would like it, but they're soldiers, trained to accept orders and do what absolutely, positively has to be done. That would explain why the Normandy is in relay transit, and crash-landing on a garden world being nothing less than raw, unfettered, serendipity. That would also explain why the squadmates are on the Normandy, if Joker decided to or was ordered to evacuate Hammer survivors as first priority.

[MissMaster_2]

Pyewacket wrote...

3Minotaur3 wrote...

AM94 wrote...

The fact that the godchild looks exactly like the little boy in the beginning of the game, and doesnt even look like a VI that we've ever seen has to mean something.

Looks more like a hologram to me... A VI that brain-search Shepard for a significant picture to show him...

Uh, is brain-search a thing that VI's are known to do now?  I must have missed that.

Do you really put anything past a Reaper VI?