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[DirtyPhoenix]

The stargazer scene still plays if you have the best "shepard breath" scene right? How does that fit in IT? Because breathing symbolizes him/her waking up. He still has hallucinations after that?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

pirate1802 wrote...

The stargazer scene still plays if you have the best "shepard breath" scene right? How does that fit in IT? Because breathing symbolizes him/her waking up. He still has hallucinations after that?

That's why people are saying/have said in the past few post that since it plays after credits it might not have any barings on Indoctrination Theory or face-value endings.

[HellishFiend]

pirate1802 wrote...

The stargazer scene still plays if you have the best "shepard breath" scene right? How does that fit in IT? Because breathing symbolizes him/her waking up. He still has hallucinations after that?

That's a good point. Perhaps it really is a message from Bioware in both contexts. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

The stargazer scene still plays if you have the best "shepard breath" scene right? How does that fit in IT? Because breathing symbolizes him/her waking up. He still has hallucinations after that?

That's a good point. Perhaps it really is a message from Bioware in both contexts. 

But...that could imply Shepard is hallucinating the Credits, which doens't make much sense. Or does it? I'm quite tired.

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

The stargazer scene still plays if you have the best "shepard breath" scene right? How does that fit in IT? Because breathing symbolizes him/her waking up. He still has hallucinations after that?

That's a good point. Perhaps it really is a message from Bioware in both contexts. 

But...that could imply Shepard is hallucinating the Credits, which doens't make much sense. Or does it? I'm quite tired.

That makes perfect sense! We should look up the symbolic meanings of dreaming credit sequences.... 

[Spartas Husky]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Haha I didn't let Thane die. I chose him to go into the tubes and unfortunately that didn't work out for him

I likes my consequences though!

...thats disturbing. You did it on purpose I know it... if you didn't do it with malicious intent that is even more disturbing lol.

[Erield]

jamRwoo wrote...

You've actually read all of this? I assume after like page 5 it's mostly people saying "someone might have already said this, but..."

And someone always has. Except my ideas, they're completely original. Obvi.

To use you as a jump-in point!  I've only read the first few pages, and them awhile ago, but! <.<

Ok, no seriously.  I think IT is a cool idea, but was not intended, and that everything that is seen as "evidence" is a combination of circumstantial and wishful thinking.  Because I don't think it was intended, I see little point in spending lots of scarce brainpower thinking, analyzing, etc. it.  This includes reading a 1000+ page thread, lol.

ANYWAY!  I've been playing ME3 again, looking for specific instances where a disbeliever (like myself) may see some sign of actual, hard evidence pointing towards IT.  I know that Vega's little "hum" dialogue has been mentioned and stated.   I'm not sure if the timing of when Vega has the "hum" message is mentioned.  Specifically, after the Geth Dreadnought and before Priority: Rannoch, he talks about a hum.  After the Reaper on Rannoch is successfully killed, he goes back to "Yes, commander."  In other words, when you're in orbit around a planet with a Reaper hiding in a little hole.

There was another time earlier in the game that the same thing happened, and i'm 90% sure it was surrounding Tuchanka. 

And, since this seems the place to ask, is there anywhere that has the accumulated 'evidence' in favor of IT all consolidated in one place?  Please, don't link to this thread; the OP is an interesting read, but has very little in the way of the actual evidence I mean (the stuff people list in favor of IT in any argument, but all--or most--of it, instead of just the four or five things that they personally found most convincing).  Also, please don't link any videos; all of the newer ones that people have made are 30+mins long, and I'm not gonna waste my time watching one of those videos.  I just want something that I can easily, quickly read.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Erield wrote...

jamRwoo wrote...

You've actually read all of this? I assume after like page 5 it's mostly people saying "someone might have already said this, but..."

And someone always has. Except my ideas, they're completely original. Obvi.

To use you as a jump-in point!  I've only read the first few pages, and them awhile ago, but! <.<

Ok, no seriously.  I think IT is a cool idea, but was not intended, and that everything that is seen as "evidence" is a combination of circumstantial and wishful thinking.  Because I don't think it was intended, I see little point in spending lots of scarce brainpower thinking, analyzing, etc. it.  This includes reading a 1000+ page thread, lol.

ANYWAY!  I've been playing ME3 again, looking for specific instances where a disbeliever (like myself) may see some sign of actual, hard evidence pointing towards IT.  I know that Vega's little "hum" dialogue has been mentioned and stated.   I'm not sure if the timing of when Vega has the "hum" message is mentioned.  Specifically, after the Geth Dreadnought and before Priority: Rannoch, he talks about a hum.  After the Reaper on Rannoch is successfully killed, he goes back to "Yes, commander."  In other words, when you're in orbit around a planet with a Reaper hiding in a little hole.

There was another time earlier in the game that the same thing happened, and i'm 90% sure it was surrounding Tuchanka. 

And, since this seems the place to ask, is there anywhere that has the accumulated 'evidence' in favor of IT all consolidated in one place?  Please, don't link to this thread; the OP is an interesting read, but has very little in the way of the actual evidence I mean (the stuff people list in favor of IT in any argument, but all--or most--of it, instead of just the four or five things that they personally found most convincing).  Also, please don't link any videos; all of the newer ones that people have made are 30+mins long, and I'm not gonna waste my time watching one of those videos.  I just want something that I can easily, quickly read.

Have you seen the Acavoys youtube on the Theory? It's very well put together, click  here
It's a bit long but worth the watch.

Now then, the reason most of us beleive in Indoctrination Theory is because of how plausible it is. While a lot of our "evidence" can be brushed off as coincidence or explained in some way, we have a good 15-20 points of evidence accumulated that CAN logically point towards Indoctrination. Some of these points can be explained in some other logical way, but not all of them. I find it too compelling that so many things could point towards Indoctrination, and not to anything else other than "Coincidence."  What I mean is, t he 15-20 points don't point to much else together.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Addendum: I have a personal list of 23 pieces of "evidence," some strong some weak I just don't want to spam this thread with it unless I have to.They're just what we have listed without much explanation.
If anyone wants it posted let me know, would love to know if I missed anything.

[Erield]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Have you seen the Acavoys youtube on the Theory? It's very well put together, click  here
It's a bit long but worth the watch.

Now then, the reason most of us beleive in Indoctrination Theory is because of how plausible it is. While a lot of our "evidence" can be brushed off as coincidence or explained in some way, we have a good 15-20 points of evidence accumulated that CAN logically point towards Indoctrination. Some of these points can be explained in some other logical way, but not all of them. I find it too compelling that so many things could point towards Indoctrination, and not to anything else other than "Coincidence."  What I mean is, t he 15-20 points don't point to much else together.

Yah, watched that video.  There was another one that I actually sat down and watched all the way through, and decided no more haha.  I've been re-reading the thread over at w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7698722/1/ , which contains sorta what I was looking for.  Much of it seems to not necessarily relate entirely to the latest, most current "version" I guess you'd call it.  (I'm not trying to be an ass about how I'm saying it, I just dunno how to word it better.)  

I do think that Vega only having the "hum" message when you're about to head to a mission with a "hidden" Reaper is fairly significant, though.  Much more so than the infinite-ammo pistol or the dream-sequences.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Erield wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Have you seen the Acavoys youtube on the Theory? It's very well put together, click  here
It's a bit long but worth the watch.

Now then, the reason most of us beleive in Indoctrination Theory is because of how plausible it is. While a lot of our "evidence" can be brushed off as coincidence or explained in some way, we have a good 15-20 points of evidence accumulated that CAN logically point towards Indoctrination. Some of these points can be explained in some other logical way, but not all of them. I find it too compelling that so many things could point towards Indoctrination, and not to anything else other than "Coincidence."  What I mean is, t he 15-20 points don't point to much else together.

Yah, watched that video.  There was another one that I actually sat down and watched all the way through, and decided no more haha.  I've been re-reading the thread over at w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7698722/1/ , which contains sorta what I was looking for.  Much of it seems to not necessarily relate entirely to the latest, most current "version" I guess you'd call it.  (I'm not trying to be an ass about how I'm saying it, I just dunno how to word it better.)  

I do think that Vega only having the "hum" message when you're about to head to a mission with a "hidden" Reaper is fairly significant, though.  Much more so than the infinite-ammo pistol or the dream-sequences.

No offense taken, believe it or not most Indoctrination Theory posters in this thread are actually quite civil with people who don't beleive in it. Unless your post is just "You're wrong, I'm right, but I'm not gonna tell you why," which you're not doing so, sincerely, welcome to the thread .

As for Vega's "hum" comment I've heard it at various parts of the game, even in the very beginning after your boxing/sparing match with him.

[Erield]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

No offense taken, believe it or not most Indoctrination Theory posters in this thread are actually quite civil with people who don't beleive in it. Unless your post is just "You're wrong, I'm right, but I'm not gonna tell you why," which you're not doing so, sincerely, welcome to the thread .

As for Vega's "hum" comment I've heard it at various parts of the game, even in the very beginning after your boxing/sparing match with him.

Blech, really?  I don't remember that.  So much for that theory! <.<

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Erield wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

No offense taken, believe it or not most Indoctrination Theory posters in this thread are actually quite civil with people who don't beleive in it. Unless your post is just "You're wrong, I'm right, but I'm not gonna tell you why," which you're not doing so, sincerely, welcome to the thread .

As for Vega's "hum" comment I've heard it at various parts of the game, even in the very beginning after your boxing/sparing match with him.

Blech, really?  I don't remember that.  So much for that theory! <.<

That the fact that he hears a hum at all may be nothing, or it may "hint" at there being an indoctrination device or technology on the Normandy. However many have searched for hours and not found anything significant. Mostly, we think the Reaper IFF you get in ME2 could produce a weak indoctrination signal. Cerberus may well have used more Reaper tech in building the SR-2, not knowing if it could prudce the signal or not.

[DirtyPhoenix]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Addendum: I have a personal list of 23 pieces of "evidence," some strong some weak I just don't want to spam this thread with it unless I have to.They're just what we have listed without much explanation.
If anyone wants it posted let me know, would love to know if I missed anything.

Post post!

[Rifneno]

I don't have time to catch up on the thread, sadly.  But I wish to leave with this.
 ----------------------------------------
 


After fighting off indoctrination, Shepard regains consciousness in London. After a long series of battles in the Citadel, he finally makes it to the control panel. The arms open and the Crucible docks. It begins to build up immense, unthinkable amounts of energy. Terror fills man and machine alike as they await its release, an unknown affect. A blinding light blasts forth in all directions. The rachni cry out, "the deafening white songs!"

In the neighboring Andromeda galaxy, all hell breaks loose even amongst its most advanced forms of life.
"My liege, there is something coming from the Milky Way! A signal of some kind, it is unthinkably powerful!"
"What is it?"
"It is drowning out all channels, all frequences, all forms of communication!"
"But what is it? Is it a warning, a cry for help, an act of war?"
"It appears to be a music video, sir. Rick Astley's 'Never Gonna Give You Up'."

Shepard stares blankly at the console as if frozen in time, his mind unable to grasp what is occuring. Suddenly an image of his archnemesis Harbinger appears before him. He hears the familiar voice echo in his mind, "u mad?"

[eeeaan]

IT is silly...the Normandy was plated with a mithril-adamantium alloy that made it impervious to the dark electrengy sonarmagnetic pulsewave responsible for indoctrination.

Shepard's implants make him an orgathetic being, which grants a 100% immunity to schizophrenia. As for the crew, most of 'em never leave the Normandy because you're always using the same two that compliment your character the best...the two that do leave....are just so inspired by Shepard they can't be indoctrinated....they're like thralls, and you can't enthrall a thrall yall.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Very well pirate1802. I know I'm missing a few minor points but here's what I've got so far:

Note, copy pasted directly from Word, formatting did Not carry over.



Main Evidence in question:
 
1. “Shepard’s breath” scene.

2. How to obtain “Shepard’s breath.” (EMS,
Reputation, Red ending)

3. The [potential] location of “Shepard’s
breath.”

4. The child in the beginning and his behavior, "You can't save me".

5. The Catalyst appearing as “the child.”

6. “Wake up,” –the Catalyst.

7.“Why are you here?” –the Catalyst.

8. The appearance of Anderson on the
Citadel, very few battle scars.

9. The Illusive Man’s behavior during the
Citadel confrontation.

10. “I wish you could see it like I can
Shepard…It’s so… Perfect,” –the Illusive Man, referring to Earth as he dies.

11. Anderson’s behavior during the Citadel
confrontation.

12.Shepard’s Nightmares, numerous aspects

a.  The child reappearing in all three.

b.  The voices of your dead squadmates.

c.       The sound of Reaper calls in the background.

d.      Whispers in the background.

e.       The fire.

f.       Oily Shadows, regarding the Rachni Queen explanation of their indoctrination in ME1.

13. “No, our entire force was decimated. We have to fall back to the buildings,” –Major Coats, responding on radio chatter after Harbinger attacks you.

14. The Illusive Man assuming direct control of you, the nightmare whispers making an appearance along with the nightmare oily shadows on screen.

15. Two of your three choices seem out of place, Destroy seems to be the only one that makes sense.

a.       Control,
blue, The Illusive Man’s decision presented as a paragon action.

b.      Synthesis,
green, seems like what the Reapers want most; for organics to “ascend” into
Reaper forms through technology.


Minor Evidence in question:

1.  Shepard’s breath, the “gasp” is similar
to when Shepard wakes from Nightmares.

2. The white screen with a blue/black outlaying edge appears when you wake up from dreams, when you get hit by Harbinger, when you wake up after being hit, and when you get raised to the Catalyst from the control panel on the Citadel.

3. The child in the beginning is almost always seen near a “caution” or “warning” sign.

4. Anderson’s gun shown in his hand just before the Harbinger attack.

5. Anderson’s gun being exact to the one you pick up after waking up after Harbinger attack.

6. When forced to shoot Anderson, he is struck on the lower left side of the abdomen. When sitting next to him you now have a similar wound in the same area bleeding out.

7. The dead trees in your nightmares, when looking up, have similarities to images of neurons in the brain.

8. The Citadel level has similarities to places you’ve been before: The Collector Ship and Base, parts of the Shadow Brokers ship.

a.       Legion, “Your mind perceives our world as something familiar”

EDIT: for formating errors, should be easier to read now.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 28 avril 2012 - 08:42 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Addition: you appear to gain The Illusive Man's eyes when picking either control or synthesis. Illusive Man's cybernetic eyes are of different design then Shepard's cybernetic eyes.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Thanks!

About the minor evidences,
1. The gasp is similaar to when shep wakes but because they are reusing sounds and animations a lot. I even noticed the gasp when shep first sees the reapers landing outside in the opening sequence is also similar.

2. It may mean something, maynot mean.. not sure.

3. Coincidence? I noticed caution sign on my shuttle when doing the Quarian admiral rescue mission..

4. I didnt pay attention to this, will do next time I get there

5. same as 4

6. Good point! You should have put it in strong evidence.

7. coincidence/unintended?

8. Good point again, Strong evidence IMO.

9. Good point. Which makes me think, is it possible shep's inside some kind of reaper consensus?

I'll think about the strong evidence after finishing lunch

[Big G13]

Erield wrote...

jamRwoo wrote...

You've actually read all of this? I assume after like page 5 it's mostly people saying "someone might have already said this, but..."

And someone always has. Except my ideas, they're completely original. Obvi.

To use you as a jump-in point!  I've only read the first few pages, and them awhile ago, but! <.<

Ok, no seriously.  I think IT is a cool idea, but was not intended, and that everything that is seen as "evidence" is a combination of circumstantial and wishful thinking.  Because I don't think it was intended, I see little point in spending lots of scarce brainpower thinking, analyzing, etc. it.  This includes reading a 1000+ page thread, lol.

ANYWAY!  I've been playing ME3 again, looking for specific instances where a disbeliever (like myself) may see some sign of actual, hard evidence pointing towards IT.  I know that Vega's little "hum" dialogue has been mentioned and stated.   I'm not sure if the timing of when Vega has the "hum" message is mentioned.  Specifically, after the Geth Dreadnought and before Priority: Rannoch, he talks about a hum.  After the Reaper on Rannoch is successfully killed, he goes back to "Yes, commander."  In other words, when you're in orbit around a planet with a Reaper hiding in a little hole.

There was another time earlier in the game that the same thing happened, and i'm 90% sure it was surrounding Tuchanka. 

And, since this seems the place to ask, is there anywhere that has the accumulated 'evidence' in favor of IT all consolidated in one place?  Please, don't link to this thread; the OP is an interesting read, but has very little in the way of the actual evidence I mean (the stuff people list in favor of IT in any argument, but all--or most--of it, instead of just the four or five things that they personally found most convincing).  Also, please don't link any videos; all of the newer ones that people have made are 30+mins long, and I'm not gonna waste my time watching one of those videos.  I just want something that I can easily, quickly read.

This blog,  http//parabolee.blogspot.com/   , is probably longer than what you are looking for but it's all I have to offer.

[RoyalGambit]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Addition: you appear to gain The Illusive Man's eyes when picking either control or synthesis. Illusive Man's cybernetic eyes are of different design then Shepard's cybernetic eyes.

Plus, TIM's eyes originated from coming into contact with a reaper artefact. 

[DirtyPhoenix]

In my Synthesis ending Garrus walked out after EDI and Joker.

[Ch1m3Ra]

RedDeadRemix wrote...

K I know this random, but during this video at 25:17-19, if you pause just after it switches views from EDI/Joker to the ship, look in the bushes next to Joker:



Is that Garrus??! =O It pops up for a second, but it sure looks like he walks into the bushes WHAT does this happen in all Synthesis endings?!

Yes that seems to be Garrus. I haven't notice it before. Doesn't change/mean anything, but nice catch.